Offense

[mk23]

In watching this collection of players, I am constantly amazed (appalled, really) at how little offensive talent there actually is. Archie and his staff get plenty of gruff around here for not being overly creative on offense, and I think that is well deserved. But holy hell, I am really not sure what kind of offense would work with these guys.

Our guards simply cannot feed the post without throwing the ball away at around a 50% clip. They sure as hell can't shoot. Most can't even hit free throws. Only one can routinely hit layups in any kind of traffic.

Our forwards - which are supposed to be our most talented group - can't hit anything outside of 3-5 feet. And our centers are equally as challenged outside the paint. I just about fainted when #3 hit a 3 and #20 scored from 15 feet last night.

Seriously, how do you create offense with so many limitations?

 

[victorbear]

In watching this collection of players, I am constantly amazed (appalled, really) at how little offensive talent there actually is. Archie and his staff get plenty of gruff around here for not being overly creative on offense, and I think that is well deserved. But holy hell, I am really not sure what kind of offense would work with these guys.

Our guards simply cannot feed the post without throwing the ball away at around a 50% clip. They sure as hell can't shoot. Most can't even hit free throws. Only one can routinely hit layups in any kind of traffic.

Our forwards - which are supposed to be our most talented group - can't hit anything outside of 3-5 feet. And our centers are equally as challenged outside the paint. I just about fainted when #3 hit a 3 and #20 scored from 15 feet last night.

Seriously, how do you create offense with so many limitations?

You recruit it...………….

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

In watching this collection of players, I am constantly amazed (appalled, really) at how little offensive talent there actually is. Archie and his staff get plenty of gruff around here for not being overly creative on offense, and I think that is well deserved. But holy hell, I am really not sure what kind of offense would work with these guys.

Our guards simply cannot feed the post without throwing the ball away at around a 50% clip. They sure as hell can't shoot. Most can't even hit free throws. Only one can routinely hit layups in any kind of traffic.

Our forwards - which are supposed to be our most talented group - can't hit anything outside of 3-5 feet. And our centers are equally as challenged outside the paint. I just about fainted when #3 hit a 3 and #20 scored from 15 feet last night.

Seriously, how do you create offense with so many limitations?

Offense comes from players creating it themselves or from an offensive plan. IU doesn't have players that can consistently beat their man off of the dribble or shoot, but they sure think they can. IU does have players that can score in the post, and that creates double teams and opens somebody up. However, for whatever reason, IU doesn't consistently run an offense through the post and abandons it for non-post players that attempt to create their own offense and can't do it consistently. IU also doesn't do a very good job of trying to get opposing bigs in foul trouble.

Whatever offense Archie is running (appears to be a dribble drive and ball screen type) has not consistently worked for the past 3 years, and he certainly hasn't recruited the players to run a dribble drive type offense where players create their own offense. I guess the answer is we need to run an offense centered around the post and that creates good looks closer to the basket because we sure as hell can't shoot the ball: both are very doable. It takes no skill to hustle, set screens, cut, or move the ball around.

The answer for the future is Archie needs to recruit players that can shoot and penetrate if he wants to run a dribble drive offense.

 

[victorbear]

Offense comes from players creating it themselves or from an offensive plan. IU doesn't have players that can consistently beat their man off of the dribble or shoot, but they sure think they can. IU does have players that can score in the post, and that creates double teams and opens somebody up. However, for whatever reason, IU doesn't consistently run an offense through the post and abandons it for non-post players that attempt to create their own offense and can't do it consistently. IU also doesn't do a very good job of trying to get opposing bigs in foul trouble.

Whatever offense Archie is running has not consistently worked for the past 3 years, and he certainly hasn't recruited the players to run a dribble drive type offense where players create their own offense. I guess the answer is we need to run an offense centered around the post and run an offense that creates good looks closer to the basket because we sure as hell can't shoot the ball: both are very doable. It takes no skill to hustle, set screens, cut, or move the ball around.

We shoot so badly we are probably better off just letting the shot clock go to zero and getting back on defense.

 

[ufo33]

Hold the ball.
Maybe the defense will foul.

 

[kkott]

what's everyone complaining about? What I saw last night was plenty offensive!

 

[T.M.P.]

Offense comes from players creating it themselves or from an offensive plan. IU doesn't have players that can consistently beat their man off of the dribble or shoot, but they sure think they can. IU does have players that can score in the post, and that creates double teams and opens somebody up. However, for whatever reason, IU doesn't consistently run an offense through the post and abandons it for non-post players that attempt to create their own offense and can't do it consistently. IU also doesn't do a very good job of trying to get opposing bigs in foul trouble.

Whatever offense Archie is running (appears to be a dribble drive and ball screen type) has not consistently worked for the past 3 years, and he certainly hasn't recruited the players to run a dribble drive type offense where players create their own offense. I guess the answer is we need to run an offense centered around the post and that creates good looks closer to the basket because we sure as hell can't shoot the ball: both are very doable. It takes no skill to hustle, set screens, cut, or move the ball around.

The answer for the future is Archie needs to recruit players that can shoot and penetrate if he wants to run a dribble drive offense.

So much wrong with this post ..do you even know how to dribble a ball?

 

[ufo33]

We shoot so badly we are probably better off just letting the shot clock go to zero and getting back on defense.

Wow

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

So much wrong with this post ..do you even know how to dribble a ball?

I actually grew up in Indiana playing basketball and had some talent. How about you: you just watch some youtube videos or read about basketball and think you know something or how to play? I'll bet you've never even been part of a motion offense before. I don't think I've touched a basketball in a year or two, but would bet money I'd kick your ass.

 

[T.M.P.]

I actually grew up in Indiana playing basketball and had some talent. How about you: you just watch some youtube videos or read about basketball and think you know something or how to play? I'll bet you've never even been part of a motion offense before.

I know, I've read your posts.. that's why what you wrote surprised me. So why on earth do you think we run a dribble drive offense? We don't. And, part of the blame of getting the ball inside also falls on our post players inability to get open and/or make a good target. TJD still has work to do in that area, and a lot of it. Also, we are without any doubt running a blocker mover motion, poorly, but it sure in the hell isn't dribble drive.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I know, I've read your posts.. that's why what you wrote surprised me. So why on earth do you think we run a dribble drive offense? We don't. And, part of the blame of getting the ball inside also falls on our post players inability to get open and/or make a good target. TJD still has work to do in that area, and a lot of it. Also, we are without any doubt running a blocker mover motion, poorly, but it sure in the hell isn't dribble drive.

Admittedly, I haven't broken down film tape. But, we sure spend a lot of time passing or handing the ball off around 3 point line or setting ball screens by the 3 point line for somebody to drive into the middle. That's more like a dribble drive offense where the player creates their own shot. The offense certainly ends up being a player trying to create their own shot. I have seen diagonal, flex, and motion type screens occur.

 

[T.M.P.]

Admittedly, I haven't broken down film tape. But, we sure spend a lot of time passing or handing the ball off around 3 point line or setting ball screens by the 3 point line for somebody to drive into the middle. That's more like a dribble drive offense where the player creates their own shot. The offense certainly ends up being a player trying to create their own shot. I have seen diagonal, flex, and motion type screens.

When the guard does the circular thing above his head he's calling for "wheel". Which is two screeners, with a pin down low, and a flare high, with two cutters. basically running circles around the screens. It's our most common set. We just don't get much out of it. Need to get/hit more shots on the wings to free up the middle a bit. They just clog the lane otherwise and we're easy to guard. Got to hit those open looks .. and it has nothing to do with shot selection, mechanics or ability.. they're open shots.

Everyone uses PnR, everyone, but that doesn't make it a DD offense. We generally go to a PnR late in the clock when we have nothing going just to get some kind of action. Like DG jacking up a shot off the dribble. *SIGH*

DD generally leaves the post area open for drivers. we have up to 3 players in there.

I think every issue we have comes down to mental frailty... the last two team were/are seriously fragile and weak minded. Our shooting is directly related to that. After a slight improvement .. we regressed back to being pussies at PSU, and started hesitating and aiming again. Have to trust your mechanics, not be a pussy, and knock down open shots.

 

[Crossblock]

We shoot so badly we are probably better off just letting the shot clock go to zero and getting back on defense.

I don't think anyone has yet to find a way to pitch a shutout in Basketball.

 

[kkott]

...but would bet money I'd kick your ass.

I say go for it, we obviously have nothing better going on this season!

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I say go for it, we obviously have nothing better going on this season!

I probably need to get out to the Y and play some old man/middle aged ball. I've been in hibernation and need some activity.

 

[Crossblock]

If you are going to have an effective offense, you need to do it one of two ways. You need to design an Offense that fits the ability of your players or have an Offense that is "plug and play", where 80% of your recruits can come in and fit into your Offensive Scheme. Teams like Princeton, Yale, and Harvard do it that way. Granted, they don't play the strength of schedule we do game to game, but they play a consistent Offense year to year with an overall roster that most would agree is not as athletically talented as we are.

The other way is to rely on your guards to dribble drive, weave, and work off screens and trust them to get the ball to the open player in the right place at the right time in your Offensive Sets. We appear to be trying to do it this way, but we don't have a leading point guard who can lead and run this Offense, and we don't have Guards who can provide help with either hitting open shots or moving the ball quickly without turning it over or getting the position to feed the post effectively.

One of the things our Big Men need to learn is to make themselves low and wide when trying to get position underneath. Davis does a pretty good job of it due to his body build, but or other Big men need to do this so Defenders have to play through them to get to the ball, rather than playing around them to their side.

 

[victorbear]

When the guard does the circular thing above his head he's calling for "wheel". Which is two screeners, with a pin down low, and a flare high, with two cutters. basically running circles around the screens. It's our most common set. We just don't get much out of it. Need to get/hit more shots on the wings to free up the middle a bit. They just clog the lane otherwise and we're easy to guard. Got to hit those open looks .. and it has nothing to do with shot selection, mechanics or ability.. they're open shots.

Everyone uses PnR, everyone, but that doesn't make it a DD offense. We generally go to a PnR late in the clock when we have nothing going just to get some kind of action. Like DG jacking up a shot off the dribble. *SIGH*

DD generally leaves the post area open for drivers. we have up to 3 players in there.

I think every issue we have comes down to mental frailty... the last two team were/are seriously fragile and weak minded. Our shooting is directly related to that. After a slight improvement .. we regressed back to being pussies at PSU, and started hesitating and aiming again. Have to trust your mechanics, not be a pussy, and knock down open shots.

Lord forbid the midget might try something else like a pure motion offense

 

[kkott]

I probably need to get out to the Y and play some old man/middle aged ball. I've been in hibernation and need some activity.

If you are in good enough shape to, do it. I had to give up bball and I hate it.... bad wheels. Now I'm reduced to shooting by myself and man do I miss it. Wish I could've kept up playing in a regular game with a good group of guys, but my body wouldn't let me. I remember reading about Marion Pierce still playing in to his 70s. He had a quote something like "they know where to come when they need a basket!" Oh to be able to talk smack like that in to your 70s! And, more importantly, to be able to back it up!

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

If you are in good enough shape to, do it. I had to give up bball and I hate it.... bad wheels. Now I'm reduced to shooting by myself and man do I miss it. Wish I could've kept up playing in a regular game with a good group of guys, but my body wouldn't let me. I remember reading about Marion Pierce still playing in to his 70s. He had a quote something like "they know where to come when they need a basket!" Oh to be able to talk smack like that in to your 70s! And, more importantly, to be able to back it up!

I'm in my early 30's. I'm at the point where I can't play games outside on hard concrete anymore: too hard on my knees. I can shoot around outside. It does get harder to recover when you get a little older.

 

[fpeaugh]

I brought this up last year and in the off-season and was assured the following:

1. Hunter would be better than Romeo. He was going to be the second coming of Tracy McGrady mixed with Magic Johnson and the shooting of Steve Alford.

2. IU Brunk would be farrrrr different than Butler Brunk

3. A healthy Race Thompson would be a force inside

4. Phinisee might be the best PG in the Big Ten

5. Anderson would be a completely different player and Franklin would amaze use because he’s one of “Archie’s guys”.

You mean to tell me these people were wrong?! AGAIN?

 

[fpeaugh]

I'm in my early 30's. I'm at the point where I can't play games outside on hard concrete anymore: too hard on my knees. I can shoot around outside. It does get harder to recover when you get a little older.

Do you remember when you told us last year that Tony Bennett wouldn’t be an improvement over Archie? I still get a good laugh out of that.

 

[snarlcakes]

If you are in good enough shape to, do it. I had to give up bball and I hate it.... bad wheels. Now I'm reduced to shooting by myself and man do I miss it. Wish I could've kept up playing in a regular game with a good group of guys, but my body wouldn't let me. I remember reading about Marion Pierce still playing in to his 70s. He had a quote something like "they know where to come when they need a basket!" Oh to be able to talk smack like that in to your 70s! And, more importantly, to be able to back it up!

I stopped playing about 10 years ago. I wasn't as good as I use to be and I would just end up pissed off. There was an older guy who played and organized a lot of the pick up games. He played well into his 60s and could still shoot. He played college ball for Tulane back in the early 1960s.

 

[kkott]

I stopped playing about 10 years ago. I wasn't as good as I use to be and I would just end up pissed off. There was an older guy who played and organized a lot of the pick up games. He played well into his 60s and could still shoot. He played college ball for Tulane back in the early 1960s.

Yeah, it gets frustrating when your body just doesn't react the way it used to. I was always a hustle guy and not a shooter, so when I couldn't move as well or defend like I wanted and used to, I'd get mad too. That along with the bad wheels convinced me it was time to stop.

 

[MrBing]

I brought this up last year and in the off-season and was assured the following:

1. Hunter would be better than Romeo. He was going to be the second coming of Tracy McGrady mixed with Magic Johnson and the shooting of Steve Alford.

2. IU Brunk would be farrrrr different than Butler Brunk

3. A healthy Race Thompson would be a force inside

4. Phinisee might be the best PG in the Big Ten

5. Anderson would be a completely different player and Franklin would amaze use because he’s one of “Archie’s guys”.

You mean to tell me these people were wrong?! AGAIN?

No one ever said anything like 1. Brunk is much better than he was at Butler. A healthy Race is a force inside. He's been getting better all year so don't be dick about it. I don't think anyone ever said 4. Some people did have hopes for Anderson but some of us didn't see much from him to give us a lot of hope. For his sake I hope he eventually does become good. I don't recall anyone claiming what you claim was said about Franklin either. Most were hopeful that he'd be able to play some productive minutes this year. He's turned out better than most thought he would so it's kind of the opposite of what you claimed was said.

So what we have from you is another post that is at least half made up of stuff you hear in your mind. You must have imaginary friends.

 

[MrBing]

Yeah, it gets frustrating when your body just doesn't react the way it used to. I was always a hustle guy and not a shooter, so when I couldn't move as well or defend like I wanted and used to, I'd get mad too. That along with the bad wheels convinced me it was time to stop.

I can still play and can still rebound, defend and even dunk but I was never a great shooter from distance. Some of the guys here would be hating me and calling me worthless because of that. Not that it would have ever happened because I was never high major level talent anyway.

 

[fpeaugh]

No one ever said anything like 1. Brunk is much better than he was at Butler. A healthy Race is a force inside. He's been getting better all year so don't be dick about it. I don't think anyone ever said 4. Some people did have hopes for Anderson but some of us didn't see much from him to give us a lot of hope. For his sake I hope he eventually does become good. I don't recall anyone claiming what you claim was said about Franklin either. Most were hopeful that he'd be able to play some productive minutes this year. He's turned out better than most thought he would so it's kind of the opposite of what you claimed was said.

So what we have from you is another post that is at least half made up of stuff you hear in your mind. You must have imaginary friends.

I’m not surprised that you have selective amnesia as you were one of those who said all 4.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I’m not surprised that you have selective amnesia as you were one of those who said all 4.

You’re such a clown. You listed five things, and Bing’s take on them was dead on. You have no shame.

 

[fpeaugh]

You’re such a clown. You listed five things, and Bing’s take on them was dead on. You have no shame.

I’m not surprised you seem to forget as you were responsible for 4 of the 5.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I’m not surprised you seem to forget as you were responsible for 4 of the 5.

You are a strange and weird dude. I've never said any of them and I don't think anyone has really said any of them like you claim. You are shameless. If you had any integrity and honesty at all, you'd just say, "hey, I made all this crap up because I'm really not smart."

 

[NOMORENIT]

I'm a new poster in here but I wanted to point out a couple things. Green and Smith get alot of heat in here but Durham and Franklin and even Phinesee seem to get a pass. These three are missing wide open shots, not creating, and throwing the ball away just as much as the others. Team still has a shot at making the tourney though. Keep the faith....

 

[fpeaugh]

I'm a new poster in here but I wanted to point out a couple things. Green and Smith get alot of heat in here but Durham and Franklin and even Phinesee seem to get a pass. These three are missing wide open shots, not creating, and throwing the ball away just as much as the others. Team still has a shot at making the tourney though. Keep the faith....

You’ll learn this board always has a scapegoat or two as well as a savior. The scapegoat is usually a Senior about the leave and the savior is always an unknown recruit. It’s been this way for 20 years.

 

[Brockway]

I'm a new poster in here but I wanted to point out a couple things. Green and Smith get alot of heat in here but Durham and Franklin and even Phinesee seem to get a pass. These three are missing wide open shots, not creating, and throwing the ball away just as much as the others. Team still has a shot at making the tourney though. Keep the faith....

You'll learn that @fpeaugh is the board's chief embellisher and exaggerator. It's quite possible that you'll quickly grow to consider him an outright liar.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You'll learn that @fpeaugh is the board's chief embellisher and exaggerator. It's quite possible that you'll quickly grow to consider him an outright liar.

That won't take long at all.

 

[oldcougar77]

You'll learn that @fpeaugh is the board's chief embellisher and exaggerator. It's quite possible that you'll quickly grow to consider him an outright liar.

I've had him on ignore for both football and basketball since early in the fall. It's made the experience here much better. I would recommend it to every sane poster on the board.

 

[hondo314]

I’m not surprised that you have selective amnesia as you were one of those who said all 4.

back to this douchey bullshit? Seriously, give it a rest, you lonely piece of shit.