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not really. We have a wealth of documented super-spreader events to learn from

when and where
People should wear masks in all situations where social distancing (>6 ft) might not be reliably maintained. It is especially essential to wear a mask when such social distancing violations might exceed 15 minutes, in indoor settings, and in groups of 10 or more.

"How" is somewhat nuanced

How
People need to wear the mask properly (over both nose & mouth), have proper fitting and sanitized masks, and know that different types of masks differ in their protective potential, so people should choose masks to wear with that in mind.

I pretty much agree with you. But we have lots of people wearing masks outdoors all the time and will claim we all should. We also have examples almost every day of public figures not wearing a mask indoors in places where you and I think they should.
 
I pretty much agree with you. But we have lots of people wearing masks outdoors all the time and will claim we all should. We also have examples almost every day of public figures not wearing a mask indoors in places where you and I think they should.
The former might be misguided, but they're harmless. The latter are douchebags and dangerous.
 
The former might be misguided, but they're harmless. The latter are douchebags and dangerous.

It is hard to know how many of the former there are. I take a lunchtime walk most days and wear my mask. The reason is that I might pop into a store or restaurant for carry out. By CDC guidelines I am supposed to wash my hands before putting my mask on and after I take it off. It is just easier to keep it on.
 
not really. We have a wealth of documented super-spreader events to learn from

when and where
People should wear masks in all situations where social distancing (>6 ft) might not be reliably maintained. It is especially essential to wear a mask when such social distancing violations might exceed 15 minutes, in indoor settings, and in groups of 10 or more.

"How" is somewhat nuanced

How
People need to wear the mask properly (over both nose & mouth), have proper fitting and sanitized masks, and know that different types of masks differ in their protective potential, so people should choose masks to wear with that in mind.

I find it impossible to think that anyone can attend a protest, sporting event, concert, etc. and actually maintain proper mask coverage for the duration. This is particularly true in areas where it is above 60 degrees.
 
It is hard to know how many of the former there are. I take a lunchtime walk most days and wear my mask. The reason is that I might pop into a store or restaurant for carry out. By CDC guidelines I am supposed to wash my hands before putting my mask on and after I take it off. It is just easier to keep it on.
You're one of those that COH makes fun of.

Me, I'm not as scrupulous about mask wearing while outside or driving. I'm hard core about it when I'm inside or in any kind of crowd (which is vanishingly infrequent) and will admit to touching it more often than I should. While I'm sure contact spread is possible, everything I've read and common sense tells me it's all about droplets and aerosols.
 
It is hard to know how many of the former there are. I take a lunchtime walk most days and wear my mask. The reason is that I might pop into a store or restaurant for carry out. By CDC guidelines I am supposed to wash my hands before putting my mask on and after I take it off. It is just easier to keep it on.
Also, it's possible a guy like you forgets his mask somewhere if he takes it off. 😬
 
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I have no idea what research you have done, but many diseases do not have herd immunity. Many diseases. We do not KNOW it is possible with SARS-Cov-2.

And if you Google it, anywhere from 50-90% are needed for herd immunity. How many people die at 80%. Below is from https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

For example, if 80% of a population is immune to a virus, four out of every five people who encounter someone with the disease won’t get sick (and won’t spread the disease any further). In this way, the spread of infectious diseases is kept under control. Depending how contagious an infection is, usually 50% to 90% of a population needs immunity to achieve herd immunity.
...
Other viruses (like the flu) mutate over time, so antibodies from a previous infection provide protection for only a short period of time. For the flu, this is less than a year. If SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is like other coronaviruses that currently infect humans, we can expect that people who get infected will be immune for months to years, but probably not their entire lives.


game-over-man-game-over.jpg


well if there is no herd immunity, and since flu vaccines are only partially effective at best, some years even worse than no vaccine at all, then as a species going forward, humanity's lifespans will be limited in great part by perpetual covid regardless till a miracle after the fact treatment is discovered.

life truly will be only for the young in that case.

which is totally irrelevant to either of my posts anyway.

so wtf is with you?

i give a perfectly rational strategy on by far the fastest and safest path to herd immunity, and you respond with total nonsense that only a vaccine, not herd immunity, can work.

total nonsense, because a vaccine is every bit about acquired immunity and herd immunity as through spread.

then when i point that out, you come back with no immunity will help, not even immunity from a vaccine.

and yet we no longer lose millions to Spanish flu every yr, or any other virus, do we, so there is hope and there is some basis in herd immunity.

and any temporary herd immunity is still infinitely better than no herd immunity, if it buys us time to advance better vaccines or treatments and saves hundreds of thousands of lives in the mean time, not to mention our entire economy..

so let me try this again without you going all Private Hudson from Aliens on us again.

and again, i'm not arguing a perfect strategy, just an infinitely better one than the total clusterfk ones we now are colossally failing at, and aren't dependent on youngers say under 45 or 50 giving up their lives indefinitely, (which they obviously aren't willing to do, DUH), and one that doesn't have the side effect of permanently putting millions out of business, and bankrupting millions more, and evicting millions more, all the while wasting trillions after trillions of dollars on an obviously failed strategy that was never going to work for more than a few months tops. (which i stated as so here when it was introduced).

if you have a better idea, make it, i would love a better idea.

but please save your pointless trolling for non covid discussions thank you.

again,

we're locking down everyone, instead of just those in realistic danger.

we have a strategy of locking down the 22 yr old student or worker to protect the 60 yr old prof or worker.

that's never going to work long term. HELLO!

that's a strategic clusterfk of epic proportion imo, and is needlessly killing the economy while at the same time not working medically due to the strategy's dependence on those not at risk indefinitely giving up their lives to protect those at risk, which obviously isn't happening. (see Einstein's definition of insanity).

all these trillions we're throwing at this would be much better spent economically and logistically enabling those at risk to lock down, instead of throwing money at everybody, and trillions more at multinational corps who wouldn't need bailed out if we weren't locking down those relatively not at risk.

and most small business and restaurants could get through this ok if we just locked down those at risk.

we learned the reality of the at risk/not at risk 2 universes by late spring, yet refused to incorporate that game changing reality into our strategy out of pure stubbornness and downright stupidity.

using the 2 universe strategy, the not at risk universe would be well on their way to herd immunity by now, and the at risk wouldn't be spreading it either due to being in lock down, thus we would be headed toward being past this literally yrs before a vaccine can be developed, tested, manufactured, and disseminated to everyone, even under a best case scenario. (let alone the other non best case scenarios).

and with far far less loss of life.
 
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if you have a better idea, make it, i would love a better idea.

but please save your pointless trolling for non covid discussions thank you.

1st, I have posted COVID discussions, you know, from scientists who study this stuff and not some old guy in his basement mad at the world. I have posted CDC links, Johns Hopkins links, Cleveland Clinic links, Mayo Clinic links over the last 7 months.

Which goes to part two, I trust what they say. I have no idea what your specialty is, are you a professional immunoligist? Based on your idea you know more than they do, your name might be Scott Atlas.

If there is no need immunity, vaccines will help as they do with the flu. Better treatments will come along as well. Heck, just not ventilating immediately has helped.

I do not know why, "I am not trained in this area so I will follow the advice of experts" is so hated. Well, for you and CO it is clear you are smarter than any expert that ever lived. At least CO has to read a book first to become smarter. You just naturally are.
 
game-over-man-game-over.jpg


well if there is no herd immunity, and since flu vaccines are only partially effective at best, some years even worse than no vaccine at all, then as a species going forward, humanity's lifespans will be limited in great part by perpetual covid regardless till a miracle after the fact treatment is discovered.

life truly will be only for the young in that case.

which is totally irrelevant to either of my posts anyway.

so wtf is with you?

i give a perfectly rational strategy on by far the fastest and safest path to herd immunity, and you respond with total nonsense that only a vaccine, not herd immunity, can work.

total nonsense, because a vaccine is every bit about acquired immunity and herd immunity as through spread.

then when i point that out, you come back with no immunity will help, not even immunity from a vaccine.

and yet we no longer lose millions to Spanish flu every yr, or any other virus, do we, so there is hope and there is some basis in herd immunity.

and any temporary herd immunity is still infinitely better than no herd immunity, if it buys us time to advance better vaccines or treatments and saves hundreds of thousands of lives in the mean time, not to mention our entire economy..

so let me try this again without you going all Private Hudson from Aliens on us again.

and again, i'm not arguing a perfect strategy, just an infinitely better one than the total clusterfk ones we now are colossally failing at, and aren't dependent on youngers say under 45 or 50 giving up their lives indefinitely, (which they obviously aren't willing to do, DUH), and one that doesn't have the side effect of permanently putting millions out of business, and bankrupting millions more, and evicting millions more, all the while wasting trillions after trillions of dollars on an obviously failed strategy that was never going to work for more than a few months tops. (which i stated as so here when it was introduced).

if you have a better idea, make it, i would love a better idea.

but please save your pointless trolling for non covid discussions thank you.

again,

we're locking down everyone, instead of just those in realistic danger.

we have a strategy of locking down the 22 yr old student or worker to protect the 60 yr old prof or worker.

that's never going to work long term. HELLO!

that's a strategic clusterfk of epic proportion imo, and is needlessly killing the economy while at the same time not working medically due to the strategy's dependence on those not at risk indefinitely giving up their lives to protect those at risk, which obviously isn't happening. (see Einstein's definition of insanity).

all these trillions we're throwing at this would be much better spent economically and logistically enabling those at risk to lock down, instead of throwing money at everybody, and trillions more at multinational corps who wouldn't need bailed out if we weren't locking down those relatively not at risk.

and most small business and restaurants could get through this ok if we just locked down those at risk.

we learned the reality of the at risk/not at risk 2 universes by late spring, yet refused to incorporate that game changing reality into our strategy out of pure stubbornness and downright stupidity.

using the 2 universe strategy, the not at risk universe would be well on their way to herd immunity by now, and the at risk wouldn't be spreading it either due to being in lock down, thus we would be headed toward being past this literally yrs before a vaccine can be developed, tested, manufactured, and disseminated to everyone, even under a best case scenario. (let alone the other non best case scenarios).

and with far far less loss of life.
I don't know any 20-somethings who are locked down. Some are being careful and avoiding bars, some aren't. But none would say they're locked down.

I've responded to your suggestion multiple times that your plan is the de facto reality, as far as I can tell. Not through some government plan, but by people evaluating their own acceptable level of risk.
 
I don't know any 20-somethings who are locked down. Some are being careful and avoiding bars, some aren't. But none would say they're locked down.

I've responded to your suggestion multiple times that your plan is the de facto reality, as far as I can tell. Not through some government plan, but by people evaluating their own acceptable level of risk.

I am on campus every day. I see a lot of students. They have movies on campus, for students only. They have outdoor concerts for students. I walk at lunch, I pass students.

What is different, in my walks I pass almost no faculty/staff. I pass the occasional construction worker, other than that just students. Like you said, we pretty much have his plan through self selection.
 


with something this contagious, a vaccine can't be developed, tested, manufactured, and disseminated to everyone, nearly as quickly as herd immunity can be achieved.

fact is, the time frame is probably yrs later for the vaccine.

and what percent of the population will probably have already been exposed by 2 yrs from now anyway?

and do you think those young enough to be relatively immune will take the vaccine en masse, or those already infected?

and what are the odds anyway that a vaccine will be anymore effective than the flu vaccine, which isn't nearly effective enough to stop the pandemic.

on the other hand, covid has a unique character relative to other pandemics in that virtually half the population is relatively immune from it by age, even though those immune can still spread it.

being half are relatively immune from the virus to begin with, that gives options to safely achieving herd immunity not normally available in a pandemic, if planned out correctly.

covid has to be approached differently, because a vaccine has severe roadblocks like the timeline and the fact too many won't take it anyway.

and the fact that herd immunity could be safely and quite quickly achieved for half the population or more.

in this unique case a hybrid approach is probably best, using the relatively immune and "willing to roll the dice" 60 plus percent of the population to quickly achieve herd immunity amongst their groups, and keep the economy afloat and small business alive in the mean time, while a hoped for effective vaccine is in the works.

putting all our eggs in the hoped for miracle vaccine that's likely yrs away from the finish line, many won't take anyway, and will be of unknown effectiveness, isn't a well thought out plan.

on a side note, how many people died from Spanish flu last yr.
 
The goal is to combine the overlapping periods of time that there are (1) the folks with immunities due to natural exposure/natural herd immunity/natural antibodies production, and (2) the folks with immunities due to vaccination.

You don't NEED either group to have permanent immunities. Get a 4 - 6 month period where THOSE groups folks are not spreading the virus, and you can make a huge dent in cases, on top of the huge dent we are already seeing in deaths/serious medical outcomes.

The folks who have natural antibody stuff going on is everchanging. Goes up. Goes down. Based on exposure rates and the clock. The "vaccination" group can be ever-increasing - at least for a period as long as the period of immunity the vaccination produces. Just keep sticking folks with needles once or twice a year and you can damage the spreadability of a virus.
 
1st, I have posted COVID discussions, you know, from scientists who study this stuff and not some old guy in his basement mad at the world. I have posted CDC links, Johns Hopkins links, Cleveland Clinic links, Mayo Clinic links over the last 7 months.

Which goes to part two, I trust what they say. I have no idea what your specialty is, are you a professional immunoligist? Based on your idea you know more than they do, your name might be Scott Atlas.

If there is no need immunity, vaccines will help as they do with the flu. Better treatments will come along as well. Heck, just not ventilating immediately has helped.

I do not know why, "I am not trained in this area so I will follow the advice of experts" is so hated. Well, for you and CO it is clear you are smarter than any expert that ever lived. At least CO has to read a book first to become smarter. You just naturally are.

facepalm-head.jpg



the part immunologists can play is basically over at this point.

it's now up to research scientists to hopefully develop treatments and a vaccine, and logicians to develop a game plan to use what we already know.

absent a miracle treatment or vaccine, with a vaccine being yrs away at best before it's developed, tested, manufactured, and disseminated, logistics, not science, using what we already know regarding who is and isn't at risk, and the ability to quickly and safely achieve herd immunity within over half the population, even if not permanent, will be how we minimize the death count going forward.

please consider that for a day before responding.
 
facepalm-head.jpg



the part immunologists can play is basically over at this point.

it's now up to research scientists to hopefully develop treatments and a vaccine, and logicians to develop a game plan to use what we already know.

absent a miracle treatment or vaccine, with a vaccine being yrs away at best before it's developed, tested, manufactured, and disseminated, logistics, not science, using what we already know regarding who is and isn't at risk, and the ability to quickly and safely achieve herd immunity within over half the population, even if not permanent, will be how we minimize the death count going forward.

please consider that for a day before responding.

You are wrong about "a vaccine being yrs away at best before it's developed, tested, manufactured, and disseminated."

According to this article - https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-coronavirus-drug-vaccine-status/ ,- there are already 8 in Phase III - several for multiple months, even considering the AstaZeneca delay.

There will be people getting vaccines in the US and most developed nations by Christmas.

It will take less than year for ONE COMPANY to make A BILLION doses of its own vaccine - without government assistance. Put multiple license agreements (forced if needed) and multiple-government money in it, and even third world countries will have vaccination programs within in 6 months of the first one.

Come out of your lab and look up.
The sun is still shining.
We have winners.
 
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You are wrong about "a vaccine being yrs away at best before it's developed, tested, manufactured, and disseminated."

According to this article - https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-coronavirus-drug-vaccine-status/ ,- there are already 8 in Phase III - several for multiple months, even considering the AstaZeneca delay.

There will be people getting vaccines in the US and most developed nations by Christmas.

It will take less than year for ONE COMPANY to make A BILLION doses of its own vaccine - without government assistance. Put multiple license agreements (forced if needed) and multiple-government money in it, and even third world countries will have vaccination programs within in 6 months of the first one.

Come out of your lab and look up.
The sun is still shining.
We have winners.

All that raises two questions no one can answer. How effective is the vaccine and how long does that effectiveness last? We have no idea what 6 months from now really will look like.
 
All that raises two questions no one can answer. How effective is the vaccine and how long does that effectiveness last? We have no idea what 6 months from now really will look like.

Not sure what you mean by "effective" but most estimates I have read have said the vaccines being tested have shown antibodies in a high percentage of subjects (over 90% - one small sample study of sailors was 100% ) and they expected to see antibodies for 4-6 months minimum based on amounts, depending on the specific one and the pool observed.

That's why I discussed it in the context of "overlapping" time periods.

The doctor I trust most - the English physician unaffected by the silly US need to politicize every fact before one thinks about it, and who doesn't give a crap whether it makes Trump look good or bad - - says once a population gets to 40% "non-spreaders" (I'm a non-spreader because I stay home - you may be a non-spreader because you got the Covid and your body made anti-bodies - and another may be/become a non-spreader because they got a vaccine and made anti-bodies), it really starts to hamper the ability of the virus to spread, and you get to 70% much quicker than you got to 40. Get to 70% and you are cooking with gas. Especially if the virus at issue is slow to mutate and "existing" vaccines can be used again or easily tweaked. He was not impressed at the 20% NYC rate ... yet. But was impressed with some of the nmbers he'd seen in India. With the caveat that - in a place with large populations like India - even very small percentages/rates of illness produce large numbers of sick folks. But doctors are also very practical thinkers. If they can cut a rate by 30%, that's good. Better than 20. Etc.
 
I don't know any 20-somethings who are locked down. Some are being careful and avoiding bars, some aren't. But none would say they're locked down.

I've responded to your suggestion multiple times that your plan is the de facto reality, as far as I can tell. Not through some government plan, but by people evaluating their own acceptable level of risk.


you have responded as such, but what we have now isn't remotely close to what i propose.

by "set free" the half of the population that is relatively immune, plus those at risk but insisting on rolling the dice anyway, i don't mean what we have now.

i mean no masks, no distancing, packed bars and stadiums and restaurants, full flights with no masks, life exactly as we knew it pre covid for those populations, and those populations only.

and covid parties are more than fine with me, but again, for those populations only.

with all who have already been bitten, we could achieve herd immunity among those populations, well over half the total population, within a few months i'll guess. (we could already be there by now if we'd taken this road as soon as we knew half the population was effectively immune, and who that population was).



as for the other universe, the "at risk" universe not feeling lucky, they get govt enabled temporary total lockdown for those few months.

they get sufficiently subsidized financially by the govt while in lockdown, (much cheaper than the current non plan).

those now on SS or disability will need less to minimal additional subsidies than those not.

govt mandates all essential services to accommodate them no contact, and at home when possible.

any essential needs that require contact, such as repairing a furnace or medical care, are performed as much as possible by individuals who have already been tested bitten and are no longer contagious, thus safe to be around, (which very quickly will be a large percent of the freed population).

those already tested infected and now safe can assist them in a myriad of other ways too.

deaths within the locked down population will quickly go to near zero.

deaths within the relatively immune by age freed population, will remain near zero.

most deaths will be those olders who choose to join the freed population anyway, but still way less than the current no plan plan will otherwise kill.

2-4 months from now, or sooner, the freed population should have achieved herd immunity i would think. (testing will let us know where we are on that at all times).

meanwhile virtually no one who has been locked down will be a carrier either, due to being locked down for X months, and isolated from those who could infect them.

at which point those still carrying the virus will be at a super low percent of the population, a percent currently only dreamed about.

at this point, those who have been in lock down should be able to relatively safely go out again, though they might want to be vigilant and not push their luck for another month or two or as long as they wish, to be sure it's relatively safe.

hopefully at this point daily, weekly, monthly, deaths and even infected will be down to a bare minimum, but with lots of testing still going on for added precaution.

meanwhile, all work on vaccines and treatments could be advancing in the meantime.

those youngers who wish or need to join the locked down group for whatever reason can.

and again, those olders who wish to join the "freed" group can, but don't expect the other freed individuals to alter their behavior to accommodate you, so do so knowing such going in.

those in the tweener age group can pick whichever universe they wish.

tweeners and youngers with kids in school who aren't comfortable being in the freed universe, their kids can school virtually for X months. (as opposed to X yrs under the current wait for a miracle plan).

a very imperfect plan i know, that will still have deaths.

just far far less imperfect than the current clusterfk no plan plan, and with hopefully only a small fraction of the deaths.

and with immediate return to normalcy for the freed universe once the logistics and financing are in place.

and much quicker return to normalcy for olders than the years away they are currently looking at under the current hope for a miracle plan.

and with the economy and small business being able to survive on the freed universe in large, plus what they get from the locked down universe in deliveries.

and again, once the logistics and financing are in place, the total lock down phase for olders should only be a few months tops, as i don't think it should take much longer than that for the freed population to reach herd immunity.

for all the whatabouts, while many no doubt valid, i still think it leaves far less whatabouts than any other plan i can think of, including the current no plan other than hope for a miracle plan.

anyone with a better idea, i'm more than open to.

but have a better idea if you're anti this one.
 
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you have responded as such, but what we have now isn't remotely close to what i propose.

by "set free" the half of the population that is relatively immune, plus those at risk but insisting on rolling the dice anyway, i don't mean what we have now.

i mean no masks, no distancing, packed bars and stadiums and restaurants, full flights with no masks, life exactly as we knew it pre covid for those populations, and those populations only.

and covid parties are more than fine with me, but again, for those populations only.

with all who have already been bitten, we could achieve herd immunity among those populations, well over half the total population, within a few months i'll guess. (we could already be there by now if we'd taken this road as soon as we knew half the population was effectively immune, and who that population was).



as for the other universe, the "at risk" universe not feeling lucky, they get govt enabled temporary total lockdown for those few months.

they get sufficiently subsidized financially by the govt while in lockdown, (much cheaper than the current non plan).

those now on SS or disability will need less to minimal additional subsidies than those not.

govt mandates all essential services to accommodate them no contact, and at home when possible.

any essential needs that require contact, such as repairing a furnace or medical care, are performed as much as possible by individuals who have already been tested bitten and are no longer contagious, thus safe to be around, (which very quickly will be a large percent of the freed population).

those already tested infected and now safe can assist them in a myriad of other ways too.

deaths within the locked down population will quickly go to near zero.

deaths within the relatively immune by age freed population, will remain near zero.

most deaths will be those olders who choose to join the freed population anyway, but still way less than the current no plan plan will otherwise kill.

2-4 months from now, or sooner, the freed population should have achieved herd immunity i would think. (testing will let us know where we are on that at all times).

meanwhile virtually no one who has been locked down will be a carrier either, due to being locked down for X months, and isolated from those who could infect them.

at which point those still carrying the virus will be at a super low percent of the population, a percent currently only dreamed about.

at this point, those who have been in lock down should be able to relatively safely go out again, though they might want to be vigilant and not push their luck for another month or two or as long as they wish, to be sure it's relatively safe.

hopefully at this point daily, weekly, monthly, deaths and even infected will be down to a bare minimum, but with lots of testing still going on for added precaution.

meanwhile, all work on vaccines and treatments could be advancing in the meantime.

those youngers who wish or need to join the locked down group for whatever reason can.

and again, those olders who wish to join the "freed" group can, but don't expect the other freed individuals to alter their behavior to accommodate you, so do so knowing such going in.

those in the tweener age group can pick whichever universe they wish.

tweeners and youngers with kids in school who aren't comfortable being in the freed universe, their kids can school virtually for X months. (as opposed to X yrs under the current wait for a miracle plan).

a very imperfect plan i know, that will still have deaths.

just far far less imperfect than the current clusterfk no plan plan, and with hopefully only a small fraction of the deaths.

and with immediate return to normalcy for the freed universe once the logistics and financing are in place.

and much quicker return to normalcy for olders than the years away they are currently looking at under the current hope for a miracle plan.

and with the economy and small business being able to survive on the freed universe in large, plus what they get from the locked down universe in deliveries.

and again, once the logistics and financing are in place, the total lock down phase for olders should only be a few months tops, as i don't think it should take much longer than that for the freed population to reach herd immunity.

for all the whatabouts, while many no doubt valid, i still think it leaves far less whatabouts than any other plan i can think of, including the current no plan other than hope for a miracle plan.

anyone with a better idea, i'm more than open to.

but have a better idea if you're anti this one.

What do the lockdown people do for finances and such since everyone will be like, screw you, don't be out here if you don't want to get sick.

What if they can't afford to stay home and have to be out to pay their bills, like many Americans would have to do? I don't see that in the plan at all.
 
you have responded as such, but what we have now isn't remotely close to what i propose.

by "set free" the half of the population that is relatively immune, plus those at risk but insisting on rolling the dice anyway, i don't mean what we have now.

i mean no masks, no distancing, packed bars and stadiums and restaurants, full flights with no masks, life exactly as we knew it pre covid for those populations, and those populations only.

and covid parties are more than fine with me, but again, for those populations only.

with all who have already been bitten, we could achieve herd immunity among those populations, well over half the total population, within a few months i'll guess. (we could already be there by now if we'd taken this road as soon as we knew half the population was effectively immune, and who that population was).



as for the other universe, the "at risk" universe not feeling lucky, they get govt enabled temporary total lockdown for those few months.

they get sufficiently subsidized financially by the govt while in lockdown, (much cheaper than the current non plan).

those now on SS or disability will need less to minimal additional subsidies than those not.

govt mandates all essential services to accommodate them no contact, and at home when possible.

any essential needs that require contact, such as repairing a furnace or medical care, are performed as much as possible by individuals who have already been tested bitten and are no longer contagious, thus safe to be around, (which very quickly will be a large percent of the freed population).

those already tested infected and now safe can assist them in a myriad of other ways too.

deaths within the locked down population will quickly go to near zero.

deaths within the relatively immune by age freed population, will remain near zero.

most deaths will be those olders who choose to join the freed population anyway, but still way less than the current no plan plan will otherwise kill.

2-4 months from now, or sooner, the freed population should have achieved herd immunity i would think. (testing will let us know where we are on that at all times).

meanwhile virtually no one who has been locked down will be a carrier either, due to being locked down for X months, and isolated from those who could infect them.

at which point those still carrying the virus will be at a super low percent of the population, a percent currently only dreamed about.

at this point, those who have been in lock down should be able to relatively safely go out again, though they might want to be vigilant and not push their luck for another month or two or as long as they wish, to be sure it's relatively safe.

hopefully at this point daily, weekly, monthly, deaths and even infected will be down to a bare minimum, but with lots of testing still going on for added precaution.

meanwhile, all work on vaccines and treatments could be advancing in the meantime.

those youngers who wish or need to join the locked down group for whatever reason can.

and again, those olders who wish to join the "freed" group can, but don't expect the other freed individuals to alter their behavior to accommodate you, so do so knowing such going in.

those in the tweener age group can pick whichever universe they wish.

tweeners and youngers with kids in school who aren't comfortable being in the freed universe, their kids can school virtually for X months. (as opposed to X yrs under the current wait for a miracle plan).

a very imperfect plan i know, that will still have deaths.

just far far less imperfect than the current clusterfk no plan plan, and with hopefully only a small fraction of the deaths.

and with immediate return to normalcy for the freed universe once the logistics and financing are in place.

and much quicker return to normalcy for olders than the years away they are currently looking at under the current hope for a miracle plan.

and with the economy and small business being able to survive on the freed universe in large, plus what they get from the locked down universe in deliveries.

and again, once the logistics and financing are in place, the total lock down phase for olders should only be a few months tops, as i don't think it should take much longer than that for the freed population to reach herd immunity.

for all the whatabouts, while many no doubt valid, i still think it leaves far less whatabouts than any other plan i can think of, including the current no plan other than hope for a miracle plan.

anyone with a better idea, i'm more than open to.

but have a better idea if you're anti this one.

I wouldn't object to your plan if we had sufficiently competent governments to carry it out. But we're light years from that. So we're left with everyone for himself.
 
Well, the death rate for infected 80 year olds might be 14%+ more than from flu, but the death rate is still only 10% for all infected 80 year olds and much less than 10% per capita.
Excluding existing comorbidities?
 
Well, the death rate for infected 80 year olds might be 14%+ more than from flu, but the death rate is still only 10% for all infected 80 year olds and much less than 10% per capita.

facepalm1.jpg



the numbers you cite are mathematically impossible, absent the flu killing zero %, and resurrecting at least 4% of already dead 80 yr olds.
 
You are wrong about "a vaccine being yrs away at best before it's developed, tested, manufactured, and disseminated."

According to this article - https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-coronavirus-drug-vaccine-status/ ,- there are already 8 in Phase III - several for multiple months, even considering the AstaZeneca delay.

There will be people getting vaccines in the US and most developed nations by Christmas.

It will take less than year for ONE COMPANY to make A BILLION doses of its own vaccine - without government assistance. Put multiple license agreements (forced if needed) and multiple-government money in it, and even third world countries will have vaccination programs within in 6 months of the first one.

Come out of your lab and look up.
The sun is still shining.
We have winners.


Bump

Vaccines.
By Christmas.

CNN and the Fear Sellers can eat a bag.
The toxic politicizers of everything including death by virus can eat a bag.
The willingly stupid and mind-controlled can have someone feed them a bag,
The Big Ten can eat a bag.
The BCS can eat a bag.

Stay safe.
Getcha one of them vaccines.

And if you send me $100 a week, I will prognosticate sporting wagers for you.
 
Bump

Vaccines.
By Christmas.

CNN and the Fear Sellers can eat a bag.
The toxic politicizers of everything including death by virus can eat a bag.
The willingly stupid and mind-controlled can have someone feed them a bag,
The Big Ten can eat a bag.
The BCS can eat a bag.

Stay safe.
Getcha one of them vaccines.

And if you send me $100 a week, I will prognosticate sporting wagers for you.
excellent post per usual
 
Bump

Vaccines.
By Christmas.

CNN and the Fear Sellers can eat a bag.
The toxic politicizers of everything including death by virus can eat a bag.
The willingly stupid and mind-controlled can have someone feed them a bag,
The Big Ten can eat a bag.
The BCS can eat a bag.

Stay safe.
Getcha one of them vaccines.

And if you send me $100 a week, I will prognosticate sporting wagers for you.

I'd be happy to get offered the vax by Memorial Day.

That being said - the B1G is a joke, Warren is a total ass clown, BCS is pathetic and those voters deserve COVID
 
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