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Long Covid

sglowrider

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Long Covid: what we know so far
Lasting symptoms may not be down to a single syndrome but several different ones

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At the start of the pandemic we were told that Covid-19 was a respiratory illness from which most people would recover within two or three weeks, but it’s increasingly clear that there may be tens of thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands, who have been left experiencing symptoms months after becoming infected.

Now, the National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) has released a report which suggests that “long Covid” may not be a single syndrome, but up to four different ones, which some patients might be experiencing simultaneously. Here’s what we now know.

These symptoms may be due to four different syndromes:
  • permanent organ damage to the lungs and heart
  • post-intensive-care syndrome
  • post-viral fatigue syndrome
  • continuing Covid-19 symptoms


Variety of symptoms
Subtypes of lasting Covid identified by the NIHR included patients experiencing the after-effects of intensive care; those with post-viral fatigue; people with lasting organ damage; and those with fluctuating symptoms that move around the body.

“We believe that the term long Covid is being used as a catch-all for more than one syndrome, possibly up to four, and that the lack of distinction between these syndromes may explain the challenges people are having in being believed and accessing services,” said Dr Elaine Maxwell, the lead author of the report, which drew upon the experiences of patients and the latest published research. However, Prof Danny Altmann, an immunologist at Imperial College London, cautioned that narrowing long Covid down to just four syndromes might be too simplistic.

Recovering from ICU
Hospital discharge is often only the start of a lengthy recovery process. Many Covid-19 patients who have survived a period in intensive care are too weak to sit unaided or lift their arms off the bed, and some may even struggle to speak or swallow. They may also be affected by depression or post-traumatic stress disorder. However, severe lasting symptoms were not restricted to this group.

Post-viral fatigue
Many Covid “long-haulers” report fatigue, aching muscles and difficulty concentrating. The extent to which this overlaps with chronic fatigue syndrome is being investigated. CFS has previously been linked to infection with Epstein-Barr virus and Q fever. Studies of people who were infected during the 2003 Sars outbreak have also indicated that around a third of them had a reduced tolerance of exercise for many months, despite their lungs appearing healthy.

Lasting organ damage
Ongoing breathlessness, coughs, or a racing pulse could be symptoms of lasting damage to the lungs or heart, although this isn’t necessarily permanent. Lung damage seems particularly prevalent among patients who required hospital treatment for Covid-19. A recent study found that six weeks after leaving hospital, around half of patients were still experiencing breathlessness, dropping to 39% at 12 weeks. Meanwhile, approximately a third of hospitalised patients sustain heart damage, but those with seemingly mild infections can also be affected.

A separate study of 100 patients, many of whom had relatively mild symptoms when they were infected in March, revealed that 78 of them showed abnormal structural changes to their hearts on an MRI scan. These changes didn’t necessarily cause symptoms, and may dissipate with time, however. Ongoing problems with the liver and skin have also been reported.

Symptoms that fluctuate and move around body
Perhaps the weirdest group of Covid long-haulers are those with fluctuating symptoms. A common theme is that symptoms arise in one physiological system then abate, only for symptoms to arise in a different system, the NIHR report said. This fits with the results of a survey of long Covid support group members which found that 70% experienced fluctuations in the type of symptoms, and 89% in the intensity of their symptoms. Although the underlying mechanism remains unproven, such symptoms might fit with a disrupted immune system, Altmann said.

All ages affected
Estimates have suggested that 10% of Covid patients experience symptoms lasting longer than three weeks, and around one in 50 will still be ill at three months. The NIHR report said lasting symptoms had been observed in all age groups, including children, but unpublished results from the Covid Symptom Study suggest that women and older people may be at greater risk. “Above the age of 18, the risk of symptoms lasting for longer than a month seems to generally increase with age,” said Prof Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London who runs the study.

A particularly under-studied group are elderly care home residents. “What we’ve been hearing from frontline staff is that there’s a group of patients who maybe looked like they were recovering, and then had a relapse,” said Prof Karen Spilsbury, chair in nursing research at the University of Leeds, who has been studying the impact of Covid-19 on care home residents. Their strength and stamina seemed to suffer, while Covid may have accelerated the rate of cognitive decline in those with dementia.
 
fyi: @outside shooter


Coronavirus: Less than 5% of England likely to be immune as study suggests antibodies ‘waning quite rapidly’
Fewer than one in 20 people had detectable level of antibodies as second spike took hold, REACT-2 study finds

Immunity to Covid-19 is “waning quite rapidly” in England, scientists have said, following the results of one of the world’s largest studies into coronavirus antibody levels.

The number of people with detectable antibodies fell by 26 per cent across England in the three months to September, the Imperial College London-led study of 365,000 individuals suggested.

The results of the React-2 study underscore the need for a vaccine to curb the pandemic and show “we are a long, long way from anything resembling” herd immunity, experts from Imperial said.


While just 6 per cent of people were found to have antibodies in late June, this fell to 4.8 per cent in August and even further to 4.4 per cent in mid-September.

This suggests less than one in 20 people in England had any detectable level of antibodies going into the current second spike of infections.

Antibodies were found to start diminishing three to four weeks after they first become detectable, dropping more sharply in elderly people and those with asymptomatic infections.


In addition, the study found that levels of antibodies decreased more slowly in health and care home workers.

This could indicate “repeated exposure” or “ongoing transmission” in those settings, said Helen Ward, professor of public health at Imperial.

Scientists on the React team said they had found no evidence to suggest this virus acts differently to other coronaviruses, such as the common cold, which typically leave individuals vulnerable to reinfection after six to 12 months.

“We suspect that the way the body reacts to infection with this new coronavirus is rather similar to that,” Professor Wendy Barclay, head of Imperial’s Department of Infectious Disease, told a press briefing on Monday.

“Every virus has a different book of strategies that it’s evolved over years of evolution with a host that interfere with the way our immune systems work, and this group of viruses seem to be pretty good at stopping us making long-lived effective antibodies,” Prof Barclay added.

“That may be their evolutionary strategy.”
The scientists emphasised that it was still unknown what level of antibodies is needed to provide immunity from reinfection, but warned it is possible that reinfected individuals could “sustain the epidemic”.


“[With] some of the reinfections that are documented – and there are only a handful of them being researched at the moment – the amount of virus being shed is quite high, suggesting the possibility of onwards transmission and therefore that people being reinfected could sustain the epidemic,” said Prof Barclay.

😰 😰
 
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fyi: @outside shooter


Coronavirus: Less than 5% of England likely to be immune as study suggests antibodies ‘waning quite rapidly’
Fewer than one in 20 people had detectable level of antibodies as second spike took hold, REACT-2 study finds

Immunity to Covid-19 is “waning quite rapidly” in England, scientists have said, following the results of one of the world’s largest studies into coronavirus antibody levels.

The number of people with detectable antibodies fell by 26 per cent across England in the three months to September, the Imperial College London-led study of 365,000 individuals suggested.

The results of the React-2 study underscore the need for a vaccine to curb the pandemic and show “we are a long, long way from anything resembling” herd immunity, experts from Imperial said.


While just 6 per cent of people were found to have antibodies in late June, this fell to 4.8 per cent in August and even further to 4.4 per cent in mid-September.

This suggests less than one in 20 people in England had any detectable level of antibodies going into the current second spike of infections.

Antibodies were found to start diminishing three to four weeks after they first become detectable, dropping more sharply in elderly people and those with asymptomatic infections.


In addition, the study found that levels of antibodies decreased more slowly in health and care home workers.

This could indicate “repeated exposure” or “ongoing transmission” in those settings, said Helen Ward, professor of public health at Imperial.

Scientists on the React team said they had found no evidence to suggest this virus acts differently to other coronaviruses, such as the common cold, which typically leave individuals vulnerable to reinfection after six to 12 months.

“We suspect that the way the body reacts to infection with this new coronavirus is rather similar to that,” Professor Wendy Barclay, head of Imperial’s Department of Infectious Disease, told a press briefing on Monday.

“Every virus has a different book of strategies that it’s evolved over years of evolution with a host that interfere with the way our immune systems work, and this group of viruses seem to be pretty good at stopping us making long-lived effective antibodies,” Prof Barclay added.

“That may be their evolutionary strategy.”
The scientists emphasised that it was still unknown what level of antibodies is needed to provide immunity from reinfection, but warned it is possible that reinfected individuals could “sustain the epidemic”.


“[With] some of the reinfections that are documented – and there are only a handful of them being researched at the moment – the amount of virus being shed is quite high, suggesting the possibility of onwards transmission and therefore that people being reinfected could sustain the epidemic,” said Prof Barclay.

😰 😰
I called this. Hope the vaccine works. We’re in some kind of trouble if it doesn’t.
 
I called this. Hope the vaccine works. We’re in some kind of trouble if it doesn’t.
Or not. Wear you mask, socially distance, ask those around you to do the same, protect our seniors. Survival of the fittest...let dumbasses ignore masks.
 
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I get it. Still, though. Not good.
Sure. Problem is, covid20 might be “rounding the corner” on us. If we as a society, as a world, don’t learn our lesson now, we’re really in the soup. Which leads to the question, how are we going to get theough to numbskulls like Trump, Trumpalots, stoll, COH, Hillz, and their fellow lemmings?

Is our only hope of surviving as a species hoping that they succumb?
 
Even a person immune to some disease has antibody levels taper off drastically. Your longer term immunity comes from B cells and then ultimately from T-cells, which are primed to re-make antibodies upon a reinfection. You don't circulate high levels of antibodies forever.

So I wouldn't take low antibodies as a readout of disease susceptibility without also a readout on B cell and T cell activity.
 
Even a person immune to some disease has antibody levels taper off drastically. Your longer term immunity comes from B cells and then ultimately from T-cells, which are primed to re-make antibodies upon a reinfection. You don't circulate high levels of antibodies forever.

So I wouldn't take low antibodies as a readout of disease susceptibility without also a readout on B cell and T cell activity.
Lowrider is the angel of death.
 
How many rolls of TP did you buy the 3rd week of March?

Go back and look for my comments back in early Mid Feb/Early March. I have not changed one iota.

I have repeated the same message over & over till about May/June when I realised that that the country was heading for a disaster.

The Flu season is like clockwork. The immunologists always knew that they had to shut the spread down before the Fall/Winter seasons when everyone would be stuck in close quarters, indoors for the next few months. Then the serious numbers will kick in.

The only thing they didn't know was the characteristics of the virus in the early days and how it would evolve in time.

So here we are -- Trump poisoned the well in back Feb -- and continues to do so by politicised the pandemic and mask-wearing. He owns this pandemic and the deaths.

So even if Biden was to win and ask for a national along with all 50 Governors/states masking & social distancing measures -- he will fail.

30-40% of the people will still believe the pandemic is a hoax or is a politically weaponised seasonal flu or masks represents tyranny.

The US is a reactive society. Until millions more died, I doubt if anything will change. Always hoping for a superhero to swoop in and save the say -- in this case the vaccine.
Everyone knows prevention is better than the cure and a lot cheaper. Like masking and social distancing. Or exercising and eating right versus pilling yourself out of the chronic disease.

But everyone's waiting for the vaccine -- a more expensive option both financially and in terms of deaths.
 
Of special interest is psychiatrist's comment implying part of the emotional problems flow from too much scary coverage.
Ever strike you that psychiatry is the only medical field requiring no research to back up their “expert” assertions?
 
Go back and look for my comments back in early Mid Feb/Early March. I have not changed one iota.

I have repeated the same message over & over till about May/June when I realised that that the country was heading for a disaster.

The Flu season is like clockwork. The immunologists always knew that they had to shut the spread down before the Fall/Winter seasons when everyone would be stuck in close quarters, indoors for the next few months. Then the serious numbers will kick in.

The only thing they didn't know was the characteristics of the virus in the early days and how it would evolve in time.

So here we are -- Trump poisoned the well in back Feb -- and continues to do so by politicised the pandemic and mask-wearing. He owns this pandemic and the deaths.

So even if Biden was to win and ask for a national along with all 50 Governors/states masking & social distancing measures -- he will fail.

30-40% of the people will still believe the pandemic is a hoax or is a politically weaponised seasonal flu or masks represents tyranny.

The US is a reactive society. Until millions more died, I doubt if anything will change. Always hoping for a superhero to swoop in and save the say -- in this case the vaccine.
Everyone knows prevention is better than the cure and a lot cheaper. Like masking and social distancing. Or exercising and eating right versus pilling yourself out of the chronic disease.

But everyone's waiting for the vaccine -- a more expensive option both financially and in terms of deaths.
he owns the pandemic and the deaths lmao. the guy with zero authority to do anything other than speak to a country where more than 50 % don't even listen to him and never voted for him, including 24 states and the largest cities in america. 1.3 million cases in a week in europe....most of the world, at one time or another, is failing with this virus. your trump hatred is clouding your ability to be rational. i have no clue what you guys are going to do when biden gets in and things are no better. pray for a vaccine. that's my hope.
 
he owns the pandemic and the deaths lmao. the guy with zero authority to do anything other than speak to a country where more than 50 % don't even listen to him and never voted for him, including 24 states and the largest cities in america. 1.3 million cases in a week in europe....

Trump has been terrible on this, and likely has created lasting damage by not getting more full public buy-in.... this can be seen by the split within Republicans..... the hardcore Trumpers see this entirely though the lens of good/ bad for Trump. While the other half of Republicans/ learners are much more skeptical of his (and the country's) response


Regardless who was President, there would still be a pandemic burning. Europe has proven that westerners aren't much for following hard rules about what they can/ can't do, in general.
 
Trump has been terrible on this, and likely has created lasting damage by not getting more full public buy-in.... this can be seen by the split within Republicans..... the hardcore Trumpers see this entirely though the lens of good/ bad for Trump. While the other half of Republicans/ learners are much more skeptical of his (and the country's) response


Regardless who was President, there would still be a pandemic burning. Europe has proven that westerners aren't much for following hard rules about what they can/ can't do, in general.
trump has been terrible no doubt. blaming everything on trump as the OP did is beyond silly on so many levels. what's more it is offensive in that it presupposes people 1) only get info from trump and 2) are incapable of thinking on their own. this thing has raged for nearly a year around the world. people have a plethora of information at their disposal to make their own decisions. if you want to no who is most at fault imo. americans and their own volition for millions of personal reasons - largely as you say "not much for following hard rules about what they can/can't do."
 
No shite. If Trump had followed Sglow’s messaging on covid from Day One Trump would be waltzing to a second term. Sure glad that scenario is DOA.

He never realized how much it would help him to put a little effort into making it look like he was even trying to help. Open up AND WEAR MASKS. He probably would be skating to re-election now.
 
Europe has proven that westerners aren't much for following hard rules about what they can/ can't do, in general.
In contrast to Europeans, Americans have shown time and again their willingness to unite against an external enemy. McM prefers to ignore this fundamental trait of the greatest experiment in democracy and free will in history.

Jaded is as jaded jades.
 
In contrast to Europeans, Americans have shown time and again their willingness to unite against an external enemy. McM prefers to ignore this fundamental trait of the greatest experiment in democracy and free will in history.

Jaded is as jaded jades.
the first time i have ever agreed with you. i'm definitely jaded
 
Trump has been terrible on this, and likely has created lasting damage by not getting more full public buy-in....

You need message consistency. I hear on the one hand that Trump is a Hitler-like dictator who has ripped up the constitution; and on the other hand, he hasn't been authoritarian enough in applying pressure on the governors to do the bidding of the federal government.

In the spring, Trump held more than a few virtual conferences with all governors at least invited to participate if not all participating. He held in person meetings at the White House with some governors from both parties. Those meetings had positive results. I don't understand what you mean by lack of public buy-in. The governors are the real decision makers here. Moreover, some governors wouldn't have listened to Trump no matter what he'd say. Similarly, millions of people would not listen to Trump under any conditions. You are obviously one of those. What could Trump have said or done for you to stand behind him on this?
 
You need message consistency. I hear on the one hand that Trump is a Hitler-like dictator who has ripped up the constitution; and on the other hand, he hasn't been authoritarian enough in applying pressure on the governors to do the bidding of the federal government.

In the spring, Trump held more than a few virtual conferences with all governors at least invited to participate if not all participating. He held in person meetings at the White House with some governors from both parties. Those meetings had positive results. I don't understand what you mean by lack of public buy-in. The governors are the real decision makers here. Moreover, some governors wouldn't have listened to Trump no matter what he'd say. Similarly, millions of people would not listen to Trump under any conditions. You are obviously one of those. What could Trump have said or done for you to stand behind him on this?


I've said repeatedly since the start of this, that all actual logistical policy responses will be handled at the state/ local level. Trump's failure was most purely in messaging and lack of leading by example. Which makes it very difficult for state and local leaders to get buy- in from (certain segments) the population.

It's comparable to teachers trying to create a successful learning environment in a school, all while the parents tells the child the teachers don't know really anything, you don't really need to follow their rules if you don't feel like it. #liberate
 
You need message consistency. I hear on the one hand that Trump is a Hitler-like dictator who has ripped up the constitution; and on the other hand, he hasn't been authoritarian enough in applying pressure on the governors to do the bidding of the federal government.

In the spring, Trump held more than a few virtual conferences with all governors at least invited to participate if not all participating. He held in person meetings at the White House with some governors from both parties. Those meetings had positive results. I don't understand what you mean by lack of public buy-in. The governors are the real decision makers here. Moreover, some governors wouldn't have listened to Trump no matter what he'd say. Similarly, millions of people would not listen to Trump under any conditions. You are obviously one of those. What could Trump have said or done for you to stand behind him on this?
Save yourself wasted typing, use Insert Strawman Here.

Trump’s failure has little to do with policy. You may have forgotten but we’re a free country. People will freely choose to wear a mask or not. Trump’s job is persuasion. (He’s the greatest ever.)

Even with a universal mask mandate we don’t have the infrastructure to enforce it.

Trump’s failure is in not urging and coaxing his supporters to unite with all Americans in fighting covid19.
 
I've said repeatedly since the start of this, that all actual logistical policy responses will be handled at the state/ local level. Trump's failure was most purely in messaging and lack of leading by example. Which makes it very difficult for state and local leaders to get buy- in from (certain segments) the population.

It's comparable to teachers trying to create a successful learning environment in a school, all while the parents tells the child the teachers don't know really anything, you don't really need to follow their rules if you don't feel like it. #liberate

Trump made a big deal out of the hospital ships, the temporary hospitals built by the military and private organizations, and using the defense procurement act to speed up ventilator production. All of that were unnecessary overreactions. In that way Trump contributed to the national hysteria that enabled draconian lock downs. I never understood those who say Trump downplayed this. Yeah, he did that with some of his tweets and comments, but his actual decisions were exactly the opposite. I guess the point is that we knew very little about what was needed or appropriate. That is a fertile environment to criticize those in charge. Add that to the preexisting condition of substantial Trump hate, and no matter what he said or did would be seen as wrong.
 
Save yourself wasted typing, use Insert Strawman Here.

Trump’s failure has little to do with policy. You may have forgotten but we’re a free country. People will freely choose to wear a mask or not. Trump’s job is persuasion. (He’s the greatest ever.)

Even with a universal mask mandate we don’t have the infrastructure to enforce it.

Trump’s failure is in not urging and coaxing his supporters to unite with all Americans in fighting covid19.
lmao all americans. dumb. the florida block parties. the frats. sororities. kids at the lake. yeah all trump supporters. everyone else perfectly united fighting covid 19. wake up
 
Save yourself wasted typing, use Insert Strawman Here.

Trump’s failure has little to do with policy. You may have forgotten but we’re a free country. People will freely choose to wear a mask or not. Trump’s job is persuasion. (He’s the greatest ever.)

Even with a universal mask mandate we don’t have the infrastructure to enforce it.

Trump’s failure is in not urging and coaxing his supporters to unite with all Americans in fighting covid19.
Your failure is blaming an international pandemic on Trump and his supporters. You are a cartoon-level partisan.
 
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Trump made a big deal out of the hospital ships, the temporary hospitals built by the military and private organizations, and using the defense procurement act to speed up ventilator production. All of that were unnecessary overreactions. In that way Trump contributed to the national hysteria that enabled draconian lock downs. I never understood those who say Trump downplayed this. Yeah, he did that with some of his tweets and comments, but his actual decisions were exactly the opposite. I guess the point is that we knew very little about what was needed or appropriate. That is a fertile environment to criticize those in charge. Add that to the preexisting condition of substantial Trump hate, and no matter what he said or did would be seen as wrong.

Let's backup....I think Trump did fine for the first 1-2 months.... then he was over it and totally started backtracking with his messaging and behavior. After 2 months, he more or less threw in the towel and started going off the rails entirely.... and was personally questioning the validity of experts. Now we've reached the point that he calls Fauci an idiot, and has turned the scientists into the public enemy.
 
Let's backup....I think Trump did fine for the first 1-2 months.... then he was over it and totally started backtracking with his messaging and behavior. After 2 months, he more or less threw in the towel and started going off the rails entirely.... and was personally questioning the validity of experts. Now we've reached the point that he calls Fauci an idiot, and has turned the scientists into the public enemy.
agree. the bottom line is that trump had zero authority to do anything - the debate is how much impact his positive messaging could have had. i believe some, for sure, but not enough to make a meaningful difference. many places experiencing surging cases have mask mandates in place and are doing well with compliance. anyway it's an answer we'll never know
 
Let's backup....I think Trump did fine for the first 1-2 months.... then he was over it and totally started backtracking with his messaging and behavior. After 2 months, he more or less threw in the towel and started going off the rails entirely.... and was personally questioning the validity of experts. Now we've reached the point that he calls Fauci an idiot, and has turned the scientists into the public enemy.

Trump doesn't express disagreement well at all. So there is that. He disagreed with the continuing lock downs and the damage that was bringing to all of us.

Fauci needs to retire. My MD friend unloaded on him a while back. His main criticism is that Fauci is way to rigid, bureaucratic, and not open to different ideas. He thinks Fauci had way too much influence over this whole response. I tend to agree, if our response was FUBARED, I'd look at Fauci instead of Trump.
 
Trump doesn't express disagreement well at all. So there is that. He disagreed with the continuing lock downs and the damage that was bringing to all of us.

Fauci needs to retire. My MD friend unloaded on him a while back. His main criticism is that Fauci is way to rigid, bureaucratic, and not open to different ideas. He thinks Fauci had way too much influence over this whole response. I tend to agree, if our response was FUBARED, I'd look at Fauci instead of Trump.
the media as well. new cases, new cases, scared the shit out of everyone and it had a deleterious impact on policy. you see it on this board. cases, cases, cases. health doesn't dictate policy. health should be a factor in policy decisions. it poisoned our response. poverty, business closings, school closings, health issues created from covid that aren't covid. on and on. we had a panicked response. i know you won't agree with this CO but i do believe obama would have shined here. i think he would have had a measured response that would have done a better job of considering broader policy implications and repercussions and it would have helped. americans being americans would have ultimately put us in peril in the end but things would have been a bit better
 
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Fauci needs to retire. My MD friend unloaded on him a while back. His main criticism is that Fauci is way to rigid, bureaucratic, and not open to different ideas. He thinks Fauci had way too much influence over this whole response. I tend to agree, if our response was FUBARED, I'd look at Fauci instead of Trump.

1. Who cares what your MD friend said, other than your MD friend, and you? "Unloaded"... 😂
2. Your last sentence may have been the LEAST surprising string of words you have ever typed on here.
 
1. Who cares what your MD friend said, other than your MD friend, and you? "Unloaded"... 😂
2. Your last sentence may have been the LEAST surprising string of words you have ever typed on here.

People have made 79 year-old Fauci the sole source for pandemic response. We have many people with similar expertice in and out of government.
 
the media as well. new cases, new cases, scared the shit out of everyone and it had a deleterious impact on policy. you see it on this board. cases, cases, cases. health doesn't dictate policy. health should be a factor in policy decisions. it poisoned our response. poverty, business closings, school closings, health issues created from covid that aren't covid. on and on. we had a panicked response. i know you won't agree with this CO but i do believe obama would have shined here. i think he would have had a measured response that would have done a better job of considering broader policy implications and repercussions and it would have helped. americans being americans would have ultimately put us in peril in the end but things would have been a bit better

I agree about "cases". I don't even know what cases mean. Is it positive test results or is it people requiring treatment. I think the former. If so cases is misleading and we should say positive test results.

I agree with your take on Obama to the extent that he certainly would have been more soothing for the country. (Many people think that is very important). I'm unconvinced he was capable of better decisions or actions. We have little basis for comparison. One comparison is that Obama tended to micromanage everything. (Afghanistan military operations is the obvious case in point.). I think that hampered decision-making.
 
the media as well. new cases, new cases, scared the shit out of everyone and it had a deleterious impact on policy. you see it on this board. cases, cases, cases. health doesn't dictate policy. health should be a factor in policy decisions. it poisoned our response. poverty, business closings, school closings, health issues created from covid that aren't covid. on and on. we had a panicked response. i know you won't agree with this CO but i do believe obama would have shined here. i think he would have had a measured response that would have done a better job of considering broader policy implications and repercussions and it would have helped. americans being americans would have ultimately put us in peril in the end but things would have been a bit better
Obama would not have been questioned and criticized by the media at every turn. That alone would have fostered a smoother response among the citizenry.
 
agree. the bottom line is that trump had zero authority to do anything - the debate is how much impact his positive messaging could have had. i believe some, for sure, but not enough to make a meaningful difference. many places experiencing surging cases have mask mandates in place and are doing well with compliance. anyway it's an answer we'll never know

His tweets encouraging people to challenge the state restrictions (#FREEDOM) were at about the same time his own White House developed reasonable guidelines for states to reopen. So those guidelines were DOA.

Another huge miss that people don't talk about is the potential role the Dept of Education could have played giving guidance to school systems about safely reopening. Instead, that's been left to states and counties. Where my daughter teaches they have had at least a dozen different plans, sometimes changing day-to-day.

Not to mention the disaster that has been the CDC, even with being able to say what data we should be collecting. He didn't need to exercise legal authority to do better. Just some focus and leadership. He could have turned the perception completely around as late as July/August.
 
People have made 79 year-old Fauci the sole source for pandemic response. We have many people with similar expertice in and out of government.

Well that's on them (people) , and shame on them. One should be interested in a wider consensus of thought from the epidemiological community.
 
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