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Long Covid

Long Covid: what we know so far
Lasting symptoms may not be down to a single syndrome but several different ones

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At the start of the pandemic we were told that Covid-19 was a respiratory illness from which most people would recover within two or three weeks, but it’s increasingly clear that there may be tens of thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands, who have been left experiencing symptoms months after becoming infected.

Now, the National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) has released a report which suggests that “long Covid” may not be a single syndrome, but up to four different ones, which some patients might be experiencing simultaneously. Here’s what we now know.

These symptoms may be due to four different syndromes:
  • permanent organ damage to the lungs and heart
  • post-intensive-care syndrome
  • post-viral fatigue syndrome
  • continuing Covid-19 symptoms


Variety of symptoms
Subtypes of lasting Covid identified by the NIHR included patients experiencing the after-effects of intensive care; those with post-viral fatigue; people with lasting organ damage; and those with fluctuating symptoms that move around the body.

“We believe that the term long Covid is being used as a catch-all for more than one syndrome, possibly up to four, and that the lack of distinction between these syndromes may explain the challenges people are having in being believed and accessing services,” said Dr Elaine Maxwell, the lead author of the report, which drew upon the experiences of patients and the latest published research. However, Prof Danny Altmann, an immunologist at Imperial College London, cautioned that narrowing long Covid down to just four syndromes might be too simplistic.

Recovering from ICU
Hospital discharge is often only the start of a lengthy recovery process. Many Covid-19 patients who have survived a period in intensive care are too weak to sit unaided or lift their arms off the bed, and some may even struggle to speak or swallow. They may also be affected by depression or post-traumatic stress disorder. However, severe lasting symptoms were not restricted to this group.

Post-viral fatigue
Many Covid “long-haulers” report fatigue, aching muscles and difficulty concentrating. The extent to which this overlaps with chronic fatigue syndrome is being investigated. CFS has previously been linked to infection with Epstein-Barr virus and Q fever. Studies of people who were infected during the 2003 Sars outbreak have also indicated that around a third of them had a reduced tolerance of exercise for many months, despite their lungs appearing healthy.

Lasting organ damage
Ongoing breathlessness, coughs, or a racing pulse could be symptoms of lasting damage to the lungs or heart, although this isn’t necessarily permanent. Lung damage seems particularly prevalent among patients who required hospital treatment for Covid-19. A recent study found that six weeks after leaving hospital, around half of patients were still experiencing breathlessness, dropping to 39% at 12 weeks. Meanwhile, approximately a third of hospitalised patients sustain heart damage, but those with seemingly mild infections can also be affected.

A separate study of 100 patients, many of whom had relatively mild symptoms when they were infected in March, revealed that 78 of them showed abnormal structural changes to their hearts on an MRI scan. These changes didn’t necessarily cause symptoms, and may dissipate with time, however. Ongoing problems with the liver and skin have also been reported.

Symptoms that fluctuate and move around body
Perhaps the weirdest group of Covid long-haulers are those with fluctuating symptoms. A common theme is that symptoms arise in one physiological system then abate, only for symptoms to arise in a different system, the NIHR report said. This fits with the results of a survey of long Covid support group members which found that 70% experienced fluctuations in the type of symptoms, and 89% in the intensity of their symptoms. Although the underlying mechanism remains unproven, such symptoms might fit with a disrupted immune system, Altmann said.

All ages affected
Estimates have suggested that 10% of Covid patients experience symptoms lasting longer than three weeks, and around one in 50 will still be ill at three months. The NIHR report said lasting symptoms had been observed in all age groups, including children, but unpublished results from the Covid Symptom Study suggest that women and older people may be at greater risk. “Above the age of 18, the risk of symptoms lasting for longer than a month seems to generally increase with age,” said Prof Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London who runs the study.

A particularly under-studied group are elderly care home residents. “What we’ve been hearing from frontline staff is that there’s a group of patients who maybe looked like they were recovering, and then had a relapse,” said Prof Karen Spilsbury, chair in nursing research at the University of Leeds, who has been studying the impact of Covid-19 on care home residents. Their strength and stamina seemed to suffer, while Covid may have accelerated the rate of cognitive decline in those with dementia.
May be? Does this mean they don't know? I would think so because you can't know long term consequences until you move to the long term future.
 
the first time i have ever agreed with you. i'm definitely jaded
Then you have my genuine sympathy. These are discouraging times. Animosity is on the rise and spectatorism (fed by the internet, MSM, and radio) has enlarged the pool of players in the game of hate.

Easy to lose hope in our future.

I haven’t.
 
he owns the pandemic and the deaths lmao. the guy with zero authority to do anything other than speak to a country where more than 50 % don't even listen to him. your trump hatred is clouding your ability to be rational.

This fella?

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So McM, if you say that Trump cant affect it much -- then at least he should get out of the way and let the scientists and medical professionals run it. But instead, he has consistently poisoned the well and continues to do so.

If you can't see it, then you have been drinking too much of his Koolaid without even realising it.

Go through this timeline to get some perspective. Like I said earlier, many people have lost perspective due to the fog of war.


May 2018
The Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team. (A John Bolton recommendation.)

July 2019
The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left her post, and the Administration decided to eliminate the role.

October 2019
“Currently, there are insufficient funding sources designated for the federal government to use in response to a severe influenza pandemic.” [Crimson Contagion exercise findings]

January 22 2020
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

January 24
Trump praises China’s handling of the coronavirus: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

January 28
“This will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency...This is going to be the roughest thing you face" Trump’s National Security Advisor to Trump

January 30
"The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on US soil,...This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperiling the lives of millions of Americans.” [Memo from Trump Trade Advisor Peter Navarro]

February 2
“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

February 7
“It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu... This is deadly stuff” [Trump in a private taped interview with Bob Woodward, made public September 9]

February 10
“I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.”

February 10
“Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

February 24
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

February 25
“CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

February 25
“I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

February 26
“The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

February 26
“We're going very substantially down, not up.”

February 26
“Well, we're testing everybody that we need to test. And we're finding very little problem. Very little problem.”

February 26
"This is a flu. This is like a flu."

February 27
“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28
“We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

March 2
“You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

March 2
“A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

March 4
“Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it's very mild.”

March 4
“If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

March 5
“I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

March 5
“The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

March 6
“I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 6
“You have to be calm. It’ll go away.”

March 6
“Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

March 6
“I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 6
“I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

March 7
“When we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”

March 7
“No, I’m not concerned at all.

March 8
“We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

March 9
During a news conference, White House officials say the U.S. will have tested one million people that week and thereafter would complete 4 million tests per week. By the end of the week, the CDC had only completed a paltry 4,000 tests.

March 9
“This blindsided the world.”

March 10
“Just stay calm. It will go away.”

March 11
“It goes away….It’s going away. We want it to go away with very, very few deaths.”

March 12
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, tells Congress that the country does not have sufficient testing. “The system is not really geared to what we need right now,” he said. “That is a failing. Let’s admit it.”

March 12
"You know, you see what's going on. And so I just wanted that to stop as it pertains to the United States. And that's what we've done. We've stopped it."

March 13
“I don’t take responsibility at all.”

March 13
The Atlantic reported that less than 14,000 tests had been done in the ten weeks since the administration had first been notified of the virus, though Mike Pence had promised the week prior that 1.5 million tests would be available by this time.

March 14
“I’d rate it a ten,” [Trump’s rating of his coronavirus response]

March 15
“Relax”

March 15
“This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”

March 16
“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment-try getting it yourselves,”

March 17
“The only thing we haven’t done well is get good press.”

March 17
“I felt like it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”

March 19
I intended "to always play it down.” [Trump in a private taped interview with Bob Woodward, made public September 9]

March 20
“I say that you're a terrible reporter, that's what I say. I think it's a very nasty question, and I think it's a very bad signal that you're putting out to the American people." [Response to reporter’s question: "What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now who are scared?"]

March 22
“WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF.”

March 24
“I'm also hopeful to have Americans working again by that Easter - that beautiful Easter day.”

March 24
“We’ve never closed down the country for the flu,” Trump said. “So you say to yourself, what is this all about?”

March 24
“They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, ‘Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.’”

March 25
“The faster we go back, the better it’s going to be.”

March 26
“Congratulations AMERICA!” [On Senate passage of third relief bill]

March 26
“I don't believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”

March 26
“We’ve had a big problem with the young, a woman governor from — you know who I’m talking about — from Michigan,”

March 27
“I love Michigan, one of the reasons we are doing such a GREAT job for them during this horrible Pandemic. Yet your Governor, Gretchen “Half” Whitmer is way in over her head, she doesn’t have a clue. Likes blaming everyone for her own ineptitude!”

March 27
“Mike, don’t call the governor of Washington. You’re wasting your time with him…”

March 27
“I want them to be appreciative. We've done a great job.”

March 27
“We’re doing a great job for the state of Washington and I think the Governor...he’s constantly chirping and I guess complaining would be a nice way of saying it.”

March 29
“Where are the masks going? Are they going out the back door? How do you go from 10,000 to 300,000?”

March 29
“Unfortunately the enemy is death. It's death. A lot of people are dying. So it's very unpleasant.”

March 30
"Stay calm, it will go away. You know it -- you know it is going away, and it will go away, and we're going to have a great victory."

March 30
“I think New York should be fine, based on the numbers that we see, they should have more than enough. I mean, I’m hearing stories that they’re not used or they’re not used right.”

March 30
“I haven’t heard about testing in weeks. We’re testing more than any other nation in the world. We’ve got these great tests...But I haven’t heard about testing being a problem.”

March 30
“We inherited a broken test — the whole thing was broken.”

March 31
“...it’s not the flu. It’s vicious.”

April 1
“They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, ‘Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.’”

April 2
“Massive amounts of medical supplies... are being delivered directly to states...Some have insatiable appetites & are never satisfied (politics?). The complainers should have been stocked up and ready long before this crisis hit.”

April 2
“...the Federal Government is merely a back-up for state governments.”

April 3
“I’m feeling good. I just don’t want to be doing -- somehow sitting in the Oval Office behind that beautiful resolute desk, the great resolute desk, I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don’t know, somehow I don’t see it for myself. I just don’t. Maybe I’ll change my mind.”

April 5
“FEMA, the military — what they’ve done is a miracle...And you should be thanking them for what they’ve done, not always asking wise-guy questions.”

April 6
“LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL!”

April 6
U.S. death toll passes 10,000

April 7
"So, you know, things are happening. It's a -- it's -- I haven't seen bad. I've not seen bad."

April 7
"You are not going to die from this pill...I really think it's a great thing to try."

April 7
“That was a flu. OK. So you could say that I said it was a flu, or you could say the flu is nothing to -- sneeze at," [Regarding Spanish Flu]

April 8
"I read about it maybe a day, two days ago,...It was a recommendation that he had, I think he told certain people on the staff, but it didn't matter. I didn't see it." [Regarding Peter Navarro’s January warning]

April 9
“I couldn’t have done it any better,” [When asked if his coronavirus response could have been better]

April 11
U.S. death toll passes 20,000

April 13
“But I guess I'm doing OK, because, to the best of my knowledge, I'm the President of the United States, despite the things that are said."

April 14
“Enough!” [When a reporter questioned his claim that his authority as president is “total”]

April 14
“[w]hen somebody’s the president of the United States, the authority is total.”

April 15
U.S. death toll passes 30,000

April 15
As Trump focuses on reopening, a leaked CDC and FEMA report warns of “significant risk of resurgence of the virus” with phased reopening.

April 19
“Now we’re going toward 50, I’m hearing, or 60,000 people [dead from the coronavirus]”

April 22
“If [coronavirus] comes back though, it won’t be coming back in the form that it was, it will be coming back in smaller doses that we can contain….it’s also possible it doesn’t come back at all.”

April 23
"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."

April 23
“So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether its ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said, that hasn't been checked but you're gonna test it. And then I said, supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can either do either through the skin or some other way…”

April 23
“You see states are starting to open up now, and it’s very exciting to see,”

April 23
26 million jobless claims

April 24
U.S. death toll passes 50,000

April 26
“The people that know me and know the history of our Country say that I am the hardest working President in history.”

April 27
"I can't imagine why," [Regarding influx in poison control calls about disinfectant]

April 29
“It’s gonna go away, this is going to go away.”

May 3
“Look, we're going to lose anywhere from 75,000, 80,000 to 100,000 people,”

May 5
U.S. death toll passes 70,000

May 5
Consumer debt hits an all-time high

May 5
“Well run States should not be bailing out poorly run States, using CoronaVirus as the excuse!”

May 5
“I always felt 60, 65, 70, as horrible as that is. I mean, you’re talking about filling up Yankee Stadium with death! So I thought it was horrible. But it’s probably going to be somewhat higher than that,”

May 5
“There’ll be more death, that the virus will pass, with or without a vaccine. And I think we’re doing very well on the vaccines but, with or without a vaccine, it’s going to pass, and we’re going to be back to normal,”

May 5
“I don’t want to be Mr. Gloom-and-Doom. It’s a very bad subject,...I’m not looking to tell the American people when nobody really knows what’s happening yet, ‘Oh, this is going to be so tragic.’”

May 6
Brookings reports that children were “experiencing food insecurity to an extent unprecedented in modern times” and “40.9 percent of mothers with children ages 12 and under reported household food insecurity since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.” Republicans block proposals to expand food stamps.

May 6
“Sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people.” [In response to a nurse telling him that equipment supply has been “sporadic”]

May 7
33 million jobless claims

May 8
“This is going to go away without a vaccine. It is going to go away. We are not going to see it again.”

May 9
“This is going to go away without a vaccine.”

May 11
“Coronavirus numbers are looking MUCH better, going down almost everywhere. Big progress being made!”

May 11
“We have met the moment and we have prevailed,”

May 14
“Could be that testing’s, frankly, overrated. Maybe it is overrated.”

May 14
“Don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world. But why? Because we do more testing,”

May 15
“Vaccine or no vaccine, we’re back. And we’re starting the process. In many cases, they don’t have vaccines and a virus or a flu comes and you fight through it.

May 16
“We’ve done a GREAT job on Covid response, making all Governors look good, some fantastic (and that’s OK), but the Lamestream Media doesn’t want to go with that narrative, and the Do Nothing Dems talking point is to say only bad about “Trump”. I made everybody look good, but me!”

May 18
U.S. death toll passes 90,000

May 19
“When we have a lot of cases, I don't look at that as a bad thing, I look at that as, in a certain respect, as being a good thing,...Because it means our testing is much better. I view it as a badge of honor, really, it's a badge of honor.”

May 21
USA Today reports that mortgage delinquencies surged by 1.6 million in April, the largest single-month jump in history.

May 22
38 million jobless claims

May 27
U.S. death toll passes 100,000

May 29

“We will be today terminating our relationship with the World Health Organization”

June 6
U.S death toll passes 110,000

June 6
“Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying this is a great thing that’s happening for our country...This is a great day for him. It’s a great day for everybody. This is a great day for everybody. This is a great, great day in terms of equality.”

June 15
“At some point this stuff goes away and it’s going away.”

June 17
“It’s fading away. It’s going to fade away.”

June 18
“And it is dying out. The numbers are starting to get very good.”

June 20
"Testing is a double-edged sword,...When you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find more cases, so I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down, please.'"

June 22
U.S death toll passes 120,000

June 23
“Cases are going up in the U.S. because we are testing far more than any other country, and ever expanding. With smaller testing we would show fewer cases!”

June 23
"It's going away,"

June 25
“The number of ChinaVirus cases goes up, because of GREAT TESTING, while the number of deaths (mortality rate), goes way down. The Fake News doesn’t like telling you that!”

June 25
“Coronavirus deaths are way down. Mortality rate is one of the lowest in the World. Our Economy is roaring back and will NOT be shut down. “Embers” or flare ups will be put out, as necessary!”

June 30
U.S. has just 4% of the global population, but 25% of global coronavirus cases and the second highest death rate per capita.

July 1
“I think we’re going to be very good with the coronavirus.” “I think that, at some point, that’s going to sort of disappear, I hope.”

July 6
U.S. death toll passes 130,000

July 7
"I think we are in a good place."

July 7
The president predicted that in the next two to four weeks, "I think we're going to be in very good shape."

July 8
“In Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and many other countries, SCHOOLS ARE OPEN WITH NO PROBLEMS. The Dems think it would be bad for them politically if U.S. schools open before the November election, but it is important for the children & families. May cut off funding if not open!”

July 8
“I disagree with @CDCgov on their very tough & expensive guidelines for opening schools. While they want them open, they are asking school [sic] to do very impractical things. I will be meeting with them!!!”

July 18
U.S. death toll passes 140,000

July 19
“I think we have one of the lowest mortality rates in the world”

July 19
“Many of those cases are young people that would heal in a day”

“They have the sniffles, and we put it down as a test”

July 21
"You will never hear this on the Fake News concerning the China Virus, but by comparison to most other countries, who are suffering greatly, we are doing very well - and we have done things that few other countries could have done!”

July 27
"America will develop a vaccine very soon, and we will defeat the virus. We will have it delivered in record time."

July 28
U.S. death toll passes 150,000

July 28
"He's got this high approval rating. So why don't I have a high approval rating with respect -- and the administration -- with respect to the virus?" (Trump referring to Anthony Fauci)

August 1
“Wrong! We have more cases because we have tested far more than any other country, 60,000,000. If we tested less, there would be less cases,” (Donald Trump in a retweet of Anthony Fauci saying the U.S. has seen more cases than European countries because it only shut down a fraction of its economy amid the pandemic)

August 3
"I think we are doing very well and I think ... as well as any nation,"

August 3
"They are dying. That's true. And you — it is what it is.”

August 3
“OPEN THE SCHOOLS!!!”

August 3
“Right now I think it’s under control.”

August 3
“You know, there are those that say you can test too much, you do know that.”

August 4
"...we have among the lowest numbers." - White House Press Briefing

August 5
“If you look at children, children are almost - and I would almost say definitely - but almost immune from this disease.”

August 5
“We’re supplying the world now with ventilators. You go back four months, we didn’t have any” - Fox and Friends

August 5
“It will go away like things go away”

August 6
U.S. death toll passes 160,000

August 12
U.S. reports highest number of COVID-19 deaths in one day since mid-May

August 16
U.S. death toll passes 170,000

August 22
“Many doctors and studies disagree with this!” (Donald Trump in a quote tweet of a Twitter moment stating that the FDA is revoking hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine for COVID-19 treatment, as they are “unlikely to be effective”)

August 22
“The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!”

August 23
The President claims that ballot drop boxes are a “voter security disaster” and a “big fraud,” “possible for a person to vote multiple times” and that they aren’t “Covid sanitized.”

August 26
U.S. death toll passes 180,000

August 31
"We've done a great job in Covid but we don't get the credit."

August 31
Six million Americans have now been infected by the coronavirus.

September 4
There will be a vaccine “before the end of the year and maybe even before Nov. 1. I think we can probably have it sometime in October.”

September 9
U.S. death toll passes 190,000

September 10
“I really do believe that we are rounding the corner. The vaccines are right there”

September 10
“This is nobody's fault but China.”

September 10
“We've possibly done the best job”

September 10
“We have rounded the final turn”

September 10
“I think that we've probably done the best job of any country”

September 14
Trump, was asked if he is afraid of Coronavirus risk at his rallies: “I’m on a stage, it’s very far away, so I’m not at all concerned.”

September 16
“If you take the blue states out, we’re at a level I don’t think anybody in the world would be at.”

September 16
Reporter: “[The head of the CDC] said that the vaccine for the general public wouldn’t be available until next Summer or maybe even early fall. Are you comfortable with that timeline?” Trump: “I think he made a mistake when he said that. That’s just incorrect information.”

September 19
U.S. death toll passes 200,000

September 21

“Take your hat off to the young because they have a hell of an immune system. But [the virus] affects virtually nobody. It’s an amazing thing. By the way, open your schools everybody, open your schools.”

September 21
"We're rounding the corner," "With or without a vaccine. They hate when I say that but that's the way it is. ... We've done a phenomenal job. Not just a good job, a phenomenal job. Other than public relations, but that's because I have fake news. On public relations, I give myself a D. On the job itself, we take an A+."

September 21
"In some states, thousands of people — nobody young. Below the age of 18, like, nobody. They have a strong immune system, who knows? Take your hat off to the young, because they have a hell of an immune system. But it affects virtually nobody. It’s an amazing thing.”

September 23
"I think we’re rounding the turn very much."

September 28
"And I say, and I’ll say it all the time: We’re rounding the corner. And, very importantly, vaccines are coming, but we’re rounding the corner regardless. But vaccines are coming, and they’re coming fast. "

From the 1st Debate, September 29
"Well, so far we have had no problem whatsoever. " (referring to crowds of thousands at rallies)

"I don’t wear a mask like him. Every time you see him, he’s got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from him and he shows up with the biggest mask I’ve ever seen."

October 2
Trump and First Lady test positive for Coronavirus. Also, more than a dozen White House staff and aides tested positive.

October 5
U.S. death toll passes 210,000

October 5
“Don’t be afraid of Covid.”

October 6
"Many people every year, sometimes over 100,000, and despite the Vaccine, die from the Flu, Are we going to close down our Country? No, we have learned to live with it, just like we are learning to live with Covid, in most populations far less lethal!!!" - Trump post, taken down by Facebook and Twitter

October 10
"But it’s going to disappear; it is disappearing."

October 11
"...We have done a “phenomenal” job, according to certain governors. Many people agree...And now come the Vaccines & Cures, long ahead of projections!"

October 12
"Under my leadership, we're delivering a safe vaccine and a rapid recovery like nobody can even believe. And if you look at our upward path, no country in the world has recovered the way we've recovered economically or otherwise, not even close."

October 12
“I went through it. Now, they say I'm immune. I can feel—I feel so powerful.”

October 12
“When this first came out, if we didn't do a good job, they predicted 2.2 million people would die, we're 210,000. We shouldn't be at, one, it's China's fault. They allowed this to happen.”

October 19
U.S. death toll passes 220,000

October 19
"People are saying whatever. Just leave us alone. They’re tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots...Fauci is a nice guy. He’s been here for 500 years."
 
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His tweets encouraging people to challenge the state restrictions (#FREEDOM) were at about the same time his own White House developed reasonable guidelines for states to reopen. So those guidelines were DOA.

Another huge miss that people don't talk about is the potential role the Dept of Education could have played giving guidance to school systems about safely reopening. Instead, that's been left to states and counties. Where my daughter teaches they have had at least a dozen different plans, sometimes changing day-to-day.

Not to mention the disaster that has been the CDC, even with being able to say what data we should be collecting. He didn't need to exercise legal authority to do better. Just some focus and leadership. He could have turned the perception completely around as late as July/August.
Department of Education?
The only way they would provide any help is if they said they were closing shop. Then we could use their budget on something worthwhile
 
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Nah. He’s a spy for the Chinese government. He must not be a very good one as he was assigned to the Cooler. Even Stoll was able to make him and blow his cover.

Every Chinese person is a spy for the Chinese Gov't.... even though I am three generations away from someone being born there.

The longtail spy.
 
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You need message consistency. I hear on the one hand that Trump is a Hitler-like dictator who has ripped up the constitution; and on the other hand, he hasn't been authoritarian enough in applying pressure on the governors to do the bidding of the federal government.

In the spring, Trump held more than a few virtual conferences with all governors at least invited to participate if not all participating. He held in person meetings at the White House with some governors from both parties. Those meetings had positive results. I don't understand what you mean by lack of public buy-in. The governors are the real decision makers here. Moreover, some governors wouldn't have listened to Trump no matter what he'd say. Similarly, millions of people would not listen to Trump under any conditions. You are obviously one of those. What could Trump have said or done for you to stand behind him on this?
For gods sake, the man couldn’t even keep a rather significant spread away from his own house, the White House! And he gets your vote for managing the country, when he can’t even correctly manage the most secure home in America? That’s insane.
 
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This fella?

4k7w71.jpg


So McM, if you say that Trump cant affect it much -- then at least he should get out of the way and let the scientists and medical professionals run it. But instead, he has consistently poisoned the well and continues to do so.

If you can't see it, then you have been drinking too much of his Koolaid without even realising it.

Go through this timeline to get some perspective. Like I said earlier, many people have lost perspective due to the fog of war.


May 2018
The Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team. (A John Bolton recommendation.)

July 2019
The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in China’s disease control agency left her post, and the Administration decided to eliminate the role.

October 2019
“Currently, there are insufficient funding sources designated for the federal government to use in response to a severe influenza pandemic.” [Crimson Contagion exercise findings]

January 22 2020
“We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

January 24
Trump praises China’s handling of the coronavirus: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

January 28
“This will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency...This is going to be the roughest thing you face" Trump’s National Security Advisor to Trump

January 30
"The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on US soil,...This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperiling the lives of millions of Americans.” [Memo from Trump Trade Advisor Peter Navarro]

February 2
“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

February 7
“It’s also more deadly than even your strenuous flu... This is deadly stuff” [Trump in a private taped interview with Bob Woodward, made public September 9]

February 10
“I think the virus is going to be—it’s going to be fine.”

February 10
“Looks like by April, you know in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

February 24
“The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

February 25
“CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

February 25
“I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

February 26
“The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

February 26
“We're going very substantially down, not up.”

February 26
“Well, we're testing everybody that we need to test. And we're finding very little problem. Very little problem.”

February 26
"This is a flu. This is like a flu."

February 27
“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28
“We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

March 2
“You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

March 2
“A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

March 4
“Now, and this is just my hunch, and — but based on a lot of conversations with a lot of people that do this. Because a lot people will have this and it's very mild.”

March 4
“If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

March 5
“I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

March 5
“The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

March 6
“I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 6
“You have to be calm. It’ll go away.”

March 6
“Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

March 6
“I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 6
“I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

March 7
“When we get into April, in the warmer weather—that has a very negative effect on that, and that type of a virus.”

March 7
“No, I’m not concerned at all.

March 8
“We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

March 9
During a news conference, White House officials say the U.S. will have tested one million people that week and thereafter would complete 4 million tests per week. By the end of the week, the CDC had only completed a paltry 4,000 tests.

March 9
“This blindsided the world.”

March 10
“Just stay calm. It will go away.”

March 11
“It goes away….It’s going away. We want it to go away with very, very few deaths.”

March 12
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, tells Congress that the country does not have sufficient testing. “The system is not really geared to what we need right now,” he said. “That is a failing. Let’s admit it.”

March 12
"You know, you see what's going on. And so I just wanted that to stop as it pertains to the United States. And that's what we've done. We've stopped it."

March 13
“I don’t take responsibility at all.”

March 13
The Atlantic reported that less than 14,000 tests had been done in the ten weeks since the administration had first been notified of the virus, though Mike Pence had promised the week prior that 1.5 million tests would be available by this time.

March 14
“I’d rate it a ten,” [Trump’s rating of his coronavirus response]

March 15
“Relax”

March 15
“This is a very contagious virus. It’s incredible. But it’s something that we have tremendous control over.”

March 16
“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment-try getting it yourselves,”

March 17
“The only thing we haven’t done well is get good press.”

March 17
“I felt like it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”

March 19
I intended "to always play it down.” [Trump in a private taped interview with Bob Woodward, made public September 9]

March 20
“I say that you're a terrible reporter, that's what I say. I think it's a very nasty question, and I think it's a very bad signal that you're putting out to the American people." [Response to reporter’s question: "What do you say to Americans who are watching you right now who are scared?"]

March 22
“WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF.”

March 24
“I'm also hopeful to have Americans working again by that Easter - that beautiful Easter day.”

March 24
“We’ve never closed down the country for the flu,” Trump said. “So you say to yourself, what is this all about?”

March 24
“They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, ‘Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.’”

March 25
“The faster we go back, the better it’s going to be.”

March 26
“Congratulations AMERICA!” [On Senate passage of third relief bill]

March 26
“I don't believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators. You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”

March 26
“We’ve had a big problem with the young, a woman governor from — you know who I’m talking about — from Michigan,”

March 27
“I love Michigan, one of the reasons we are doing such a GREAT job for them during this horrible Pandemic. Yet your Governor, Gretchen “Half” Whitmer is way in over her head, she doesn’t have a clue. Likes blaming everyone for her own ineptitude!”

March 27
“Mike, don’t call the governor of Washington. You’re wasting your time with him…”

March 27
“I want them to be appreciative. We've done a great job.”

March 27
“We’re doing a great job for the state of Washington and I think the Governor...he’s constantly chirping and I guess complaining would be a nice way of saying it.”

March 29
“Where are the masks going? Are they going out the back door? How do you go from 10,000 to 300,000?”

March 29
“Unfortunately the enemy is death. It's death. A lot of people are dying. So it's very unpleasant.”

March 30
"Stay calm, it will go away. You know it -- you know it is going away, and it will go away, and we're going to have a great victory."

March 30
“I think New York should be fine, based on the numbers that we see, they should have more than enough. I mean, I’m hearing stories that they’re not used or they’re not used right.”

March 30
“I haven’t heard about testing in weeks. We’re testing more than any other nation in the world. We’ve got these great tests...But I haven’t heard about testing being a problem.”

March 30
“We inherited a broken test — the whole thing was broken.”

March 31
“...it’s not the flu. It’s vicious.”

April 1
“They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, ‘Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.’”

April 2
“Massive amounts of medical supplies... are being delivered directly to states...Some have insatiable appetites & are never satisfied (politics?). The complainers should have been stocked up and ready long before this crisis hit.”

April 2
“...the Federal Government is merely a back-up for state governments.”

April 3
“I’m feeling good. I just don’t want to be doing -- somehow sitting in the Oval Office behind that beautiful resolute desk, the great resolute desk, I think wearing a face mask as I greet presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens, I don’t know, somehow I don’t see it for myself. I just don’t. Maybe I’ll change my mind.”

April 5
“FEMA, the military — what they’ve done is a miracle...And you should be thanking them for what they’ve done, not always asking wise-guy questions.”

April 6
“LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL!”

April 6
U.S. death toll passes 10,000

April 7
"So, you know, things are happening. It's a -- it's -- I haven't seen bad. I've not seen bad."

April 7
"You are not going to die from this pill...I really think it's a great thing to try."

April 7
“That was a flu. OK. So you could say that I said it was a flu, or you could say the flu is nothing to -- sneeze at," [Regarding Spanish Flu]

April 8
"I read about it maybe a day, two days ago,...It was a recommendation that he had, I think he told certain people on the staff, but it didn't matter. I didn't see it." [Regarding Peter Navarro’s January warning]

April 9
“I couldn’t have done it any better,” [When asked if his coronavirus response could have been better]

April 11
U.S. death toll passes 20,000

April 13
“But I guess I'm doing OK, because, to the best of my knowledge, I'm the President of the United States, despite the things that are said."

April 14
“Enough!” [When a reporter questioned his claim that his authority as president is “total”]

April 14
“[w]hen somebody’s the president of the United States, the authority is total.”

April 15
U.S. death toll passes 30,000

April 15
As Trump focuses on reopening, a leaked CDC and FEMA report warns of “significant risk of resurgence of the virus” with phased reopening.

April 19
“Now we’re going toward 50, I’m hearing, or 60,000 people [dead from the coronavirus]”

April 22
“If [coronavirus] comes back though, it won’t be coming back in the form that it was, it will be coming back in smaller doses that we can contain….it’s also possible it doesn’t come back at all.”

April 23
"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."

April 23
“So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether its ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said, that hasn't been checked but you're gonna test it. And then I said, supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can either do either through the skin or some other way…”

April 23
“You see states are starting to open up now, and it’s very exciting to see,”

April 23
26 million jobless claims

April 24
U.S. death toll passes 50,000

April 26
“The people that know me and know the history of our Country say that I am the hardest working President in history.”

April 27
"I can't imagine why," [Regarding influx in poison control calls about disinfectant]

April 29
“It’s gonna go away, this is going to go away.”

May 3
“Look, we're going to lose anywhere from 75,000, 80,000 to 100,000 people,”

May 5
U.S. death toll passes 70,000

May 5
Consumer debt hits an all-time high

May 5
“Well run States should not be bailing out poorly run States, using CoronaVirus as the excuse!”

May 5
“I always felt 60, 65, 70, as horrible as that is. I mean, you’re talking about filling up Yankee Stadium with death! So I thought it was horrible. But it’s probably going to be somewhat higher than that,”

May 5
“There’ll be more death, that the virus will pass, with or without a vaccine. And I think we’re doing very well on the vaccines but, with or without a vaccine, it’s going to pass, and we’re going to be back to normal,”

May 5
“I don’t want to be Mr. Gloom-and-Doom. It’s a very bad subject,...I’m not looking to tell the American people when nobody really knows what’s happening yet, ‘Oh, this is going to be so tragic.’”

May 6
Brookings reports that children were “experiencing food insecurity to an extent unprecedented in modern times” and “40.9 percent of mothers with children ages 12 and under reported household food insecurity since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.” Republicans block proposals to expand food stamps.

May 6
“Sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people.” [In response to a nurse telling him that equipment supply has been “sporadic”]

May 7
33 million jobless claims

May 8
“This is going to go away without a vaccine. It is going to go away. We are not going to see it again.”

May 9
“This is going to go away without a vaccine.”

May 11
“Coronavirus numbers are looking MUCH better, going down almost everywhere. Big progress being made!”

May 11
“We have met the moment and we have prevailed,”

May 14
“Could be that testing’s, frankly, overrated. Maybe it is overrated.”

May 14
“Don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world. But why? Because we do more testing,”

May 15
“Vaccine or no vaccine, we’re back. And we’re starting the process. In many cases, they don’t have vaccines and a virus or a flu comes and you fight through it.

May 16
“We’ve done a GREAT job on Covid response, making all Governors look good, some fantastic (and that’s OK), but the Lamestream Media doesn’t want to go with that narrative, and the Do Nothing Dems talking point is to say only bad about “Trump”. I made everybody look good, but me!”

May 18
U.S. death toll passes 90,000

May 19
“When we have a lot of cases, I don't look at that as a bad thing, I look at that as, in a certain respect, as being a good thing,...Because it means our testing is much better. I view it as a badge of honor, really, it's a badge of honor.”

May 21
USA Today reports that mortgage delinquencies surged by 1.6 million in April, the largest single-month jump in history.

May 22
38 million jobless claims

May 27
U.S. death toll passes 100,000

May 29

“We will be today terminating our relationship with the World Health Organization”

June 6
U.S death toll passes 110,000

June 6
“Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying this is a great thing that’s happening for our country...This is a great day for him. It’s a great day for everybody. This is a great day for everybody. This is a great, great day in terms of equality.”

June 15
“At some point this stuff goes away and it’s going away.”

June 17
“It’s fading away. It’s going to fade away.”

June 18
“And it is dying out. The numbers are starting to get very good.”

June 20
"Testing is a double-edged sword,...When you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find more cases, so I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down, please.'"

June 22
U.S death toll passes 120,000

June 23
“Cases are going up in the U.S. because we are testing far more than any other country, and ever expanding. With smaller testing we would show fewer cases!”

June 23
"It's going away,"

June 25
“The number of ChinaVirus cases goes up, because of GREAT TESTING, while the number of deaths (mortality rate), goes way down. The Fake News doesn’t like telling you that!”

June 25
“Coronavirus deaths are way down. Mortality rate is one of the lowest in the World. Our Economy is roaring back and will NOT be shut down. “Embers” or flare ups will be put out, as necessary!”

June 30
U.S. has just 4% of the global population, but 25% of global coronavirus cases and the second highest death rate per capita.

July 1
“I think we’re going to be very good with the coronavirus.” “I think that, at some point, that’s going to sort of disappear, I hope.”

July 6
U.S. death toll passes 130,000

July 7
"I think we are in a good place."

July 7
The president predicted that in the next two to four weeks, "I think we're going to be in very good shape."

July 8
“In Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and many other countries, SCHOOLS ARE OPEN WITH NO PROBLEMS. The Dems think it would be bad for them politically if U.S. schools open before the November election, but it is important for the children & families. May cut off funding if not open!”

July 8
“I disagree with @CDCgov on their very tough & expensive guidelines for opening schools. While they want them open, they are asking school [sic] to do very impractical things. I will be meeting with them!!!”

July 18
U.S. death toll passes 140,000

July 19
“I think we have one of the lowest mortality rates in the world”

July 19
“Many of those cases are young people that would heal in a day”

“They have the sniffles, and we put it down as a test”

July 21
"You will never hear this on the Fake News concerning the China Virus, but by comparison to most other countries, who are suffering greatly, we are doing very well - and we have done things that few other countries could have done!”

July 27
"America will develop a vaccine very soon, and we will defeat the virus. We will have it delivered in record time."

July 28
U.S. death toll passes 150,000

July 28
"He's got this high approval rating. So why don't I have a high approval rating with respect -- and the administration -- with respect to the virus?" (Trump referring to Anthony Fauci)

August 1
“Wrong! We have more cases because we have tested far more than any other country, 60,000,000. If we tested less, there would be less cases,” (Donald Trump in a retweet of Anthony Fauci saying the U.S. has seen more cases than European countries because it only shut down a fraction of its economy amid the pandemic)

August 3
"I think we are doing very well and I think ... as well as any nation,"

August 3
"They are dying. That's true. And you — it is what it is.”

August 3
“OPEN THE SCHOOLS!!!”

August 3
“Right now I think it’s under control.”

August 3
“You know, there are those that say you can test too much, you do know that.”

August 4
"...we have among the lowest numbers." - White House Press Briefing

August 5
“If you look at children, children are almost - and I would almost say definitely - but almost immune from this disease.”

August 5
“We’re supplying the world now with ventilators. You go back four months, we didn’t have any” - Fox and Friends

August 5
“It will go away like things go away”

August 6
U.S. death toll passes 160,000

August 12
U.S. reports highest number of COVID-19 deaths in one day since mid-May

August 16
U.S. death toll passes 170,000

August 22
“Many doctors and studies disagree with this!” (Donald Trump in a quote tweet of a Twitter moment stating that the FDA is revoking hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine for COVID-19 treatment, as they are “unlikely to be effective”)

August 22
“The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!”

August 23
The President claims that ballot drop boxes are a “voter security disaster” and a “big fraud,” “possible for a person to vote multiple times” and that they aren’t “Covid sanitized.”

August 26
U.S. death toll passes 180,000

August 31
"We've done a great job in Covid but we don't get the credit."

August 31
Six million Americans have now been infected by the coronavirus.

September 4
There will be a vaccine “before the end of the year and maybe even before Nov. 1. I think we can probably have it sometime in October.”

September 9
U.S. death toll passes 190,000

September 10
“I really do believe that we are rounding the corner. The vaccines are right there”

September 10
“This is nobody's fault but China.”

September 10
“We've possibly done the best job”

September 10
“We have rounded the final turn”

September 10
“I think that we've probably done the best job of any country”

September 14
Trump, was asked if he is afraid of Coronavirus risk at his rallies: “I’m on a stage, it’s very far away, so I’m not at all concerned.”

September 16
“If you take the blue states out, we’re at a level I don’t think anybody in the world would be at.”

September 16
Reporter: “[The head of the CDC] said that the vaccine for the general public wouldn’t be available until next Summer or maybe even early fall. Are you comfortable with that timeline?” Trump: “I think he made a mistake when he said that. That’s just incorrect information.”

September 19
U.S. death toll passes 200,000

September 21

“Take your hat off to the young because they have a hell of an immune system. But [the virus] affects virtually nobody. It’s an amazing thing. By the way, open your schools everybody, open your schools.”

September 21
"We're rounding the corner," "With or without a vaccine. They hate when I say that but that's the way it is. ... We've done a phenomenal job. Not just a good job, a phenomenal job. Other than public relations, but that's because I have fake news. On public relations, I give myself a D. On the job itself, we take an A+."

September 21
"In some states, thousands of people — nobody young. Below the age of 18, like, nobody. They have a strong immune system, who knows? Take your hat off to the young, because they have a hell of an immune system. But it affects virtually nobody. It’s an amazing thing.”

September 23
"I think we’re rounding the turn very much."

September 28
"And I say, and I’ll say it all the time: We’re rounding the corner. And, very importantly, vaccines are coming, but we’re rounding the corner regardless. But vaccines are coming, and they’re coming fast. "

From the 1st Debate, September 29
"Well, so far we have had no problem whatsoever. " (referring to crowds of thousands at rallies)

"I don’t wear a mask like him. Every time you see him, he’s got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from him and he shows up with the biggest mask I’ve ever seen."

October 2
Trump and First Lady test positive for Coronavirus. Also, more than a dozen White House staff and aides tested positive.

October 5
U.S. death toll passes 210,000

October 5
“Don’t be afraid of Covid.”

October 6
"Many people every year, sometimes over 100,000, and despite the Vaccine, die from the Flu, Are we going to close down our Country? No, we have learned to live with it, just like we are learning to live with Covid, in most populations far less lethal!!!" - Trump post, taken down by Facebook and Twitter

October 10
"But it’s going to disappear; it is disappearing."

October 11
"...We have done a “phenomenal” job, according to certain governors. Many people agree...And now come the Vaccines & Cures, long ahead of projections!"

October 12
"Under my leadership, we're delivering a safe vaccine and a rapid recovery like nobody can even believe. And if you look at our upward path, no country in the world has recovered the way we've recovered economically or otherwise, not even close."

October 12
“I went through it. Now, they say I'm immune. I can feel—I feel so powerful.”

October 12
“When this first came out, if we didn't do a good job, they predicted 2.2 million people would die, we're 210,000. We shouldn't be at, one, it's China's fault. They allowed this to happen.”

October 19
U.S. death toll passes 220,000

October 19
"People are saying whatever. Just leave us alone. They’re tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots...Fauci is a nice guy. He’s been here for 500 years."
he should have gotten out of the way but again, 1) the scientists/doctors don't make policy; if they did we'd be locked down for a year with 25 million in poverty and all that attends and the cure would be far worse than the virus. policy makers consider the health advice and create policy based on a totality of factors not just covid cases that liberal media is obsessed with as opposed to survival rates etc; remember heart disease and cancer will kill 6x more americans this year than cancer, not to mention the insidious effects of poverty and all the other health conditions being neglected because of hte media's obessession with covid cases 2) state and local politicians are the ultimate decision makers. federalism. that's where the buck stops. 3) you post incessantly about trump. you are obsessed with same and losing any ability to think rationally. europe had 1.3 million cases this week. to say the death's in the us are on his hands is in coh's words "one of the five dumbest things i've ever seen posted on the wc."

now relax. stop obsessing over this shit. drink a beer and look at the water. manchester united was brilliant today.
 
Go back and look for my comments back in early Mid Feb/Early March. I have not changed one iota.

I have repeated the same message over & over till about May/June when I realised that that the country was heading for a disaster.

The Flu season is like clockwork. The immunologists always knew that they had to shut the spread down before the Fall/Winter seasons when everyone would be stuck in close quarters, indoors for the next few months. Then the serious numbers will kick in.

The only thing they didn't know was the characteristics of the virus in the early days and how it would evolve in time.

So here we are -- Trump poisoned the well in back Feb -- and continues to do so by politicised the pandemic and mask-wearing. He owns this pandemic and the deaths.

So even if Biden was to win and ask for a national along with all 50 Governors/states masking & social distancing measures -- he will fail.

30-40% of the people will still believe the pandemic is a hoax or is a politically weaponised seasonal flu or masks represents tyranny.

The US is a reactive society. Until millions more died, I doubt if anything will change. Always hoping for a superhero to swoop in and save the say -- in this case the vaccine.
Everyone knows prevention is better than the cure and a lot cheaper. Like masking and social distancing. Or exercising and eating right versus pilling yourself out of the chronic disease.

But everyone's waiting for the vaccine -- a more expensive option both financially and in terms of deaths.

he owns the pandemic and the deaths lmao. the guy with zero authority to do anything other than speak to a country where more than 50 % don't even listen to him and never voted for him, including 24 states and the largest cities in america. 1.3 million cases in a week in europe....most of the world, at one time or another, is failing with this virus. your trump hatred is clouding your ability to be rational. i have no clue what you guys are going to do when biden gets in and things are no better. pray for a vaccine. that's my hope.

Let's backup....I think Trump did fine for the first 1-2 months.... then he was over it and totally started backtracking with his messaging and behavior. After 2 months, he more or less threw in the towel and started going off the rails entirely.... and was personally questioning the validity of experts. Now we've reached the point that he calls Fauci an idiot, and has turned the scientists into the public enemy.

plenty of blame to go around.

both parties dug in early on what should be the strategy going forward, before we really had many facts on the virus.

once the game changing fact emerged that over half the population was relatively immune from dying from covid, and the knowledge of who that population was and wasn't, still neither side changed their strategy on how to combat the virus or the economic collateral damage attached, as doing so would have meant admitting they were originally wrong.

and both sides were totally unwilling to make such an admission of being wrong with an election on the line, and both sides and even more so all media, are quite beholden to big pharma who has a huge financial stake in this not going away before their big payday comes.

in a reality where herd immunity, either thru inevitable spread or hoped for vaccine, is literally the only solution absent a cure, once we learned over half the population was relatively not at risk, and more or less who that population was and wasn't, the entire strategic direction on how to combat both the virus and the economic fallout should have changed that very moment for both factions.

yet it didn't change one iota for either.
 
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he should have gotten out of the way but again, 1) the scientists/doctors don't make policy; if they did we'd be locked down for a year with 25 million in poverty and all that attends and the cure would be far worse than the virus. policy makers consider the health advice and create policy based on a totality of factors not just covid cases that liberal media is obsessed with as opposed to survival rates etc; remember heart disease and cancer will kill 6x more americans this year than cancer, not to mention the insidious effects of poverty and all the other health conditions being neglected because of hte media's obessession with covid cases 2) state and local politicians are the ultimate decision makers. federalism. that's where the buck stops. 3) you post incessantly about trump. you are obsessed with same and losing any ability to think rationally. europe had 1.3 million cases this week. to say the death's in the us are on his hands is in coh's words "one of the five dumbest things i've ever seen posted on the wc."

now relax. stop obsessing over this shit. drink a beer and look at the water. manchester united was brilliant today.

Ok. Its Klopp's fault.
 
People have made 79 year-old Fauci the sole source for pandemic response. We have many people with similar expertice in and out of government.

We have Birx and the entire CDC and the Surgeon General. None have come out for herd immunity. What we don't need is a radiologist at the forefront. Imagine calling 911 because your house is on fire and the police respond and waive off the fire department.
 
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We have Birx and the entire CDC and the Surgeon General. None have come out for herd immunity. What we don't need is a radiologist at the forefront. Imagine calling 911 because your house is on fire and the police respond and waive off the fire department.

Radiologist? Herd immunity? Waive off fire department? What are you talking about? What does that have to do with Fauci?

More scary to me is Biden’s promise to “follow science” to kill the virus, as if the virus kills us all. Policy makers don’t follow science, they consider science. There are other important considerations.

Science also tells us humans must not eat sugar. I’m not giving up ice cream.
 
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Radiologist? Herd immunity? Waive off fire department? What are you talking about? What does that have to do with Fauci?

More scary to me is Biden’s promise to “follow science” to kill the virus, as if the virus kills us all. Policy makers don’t follow science, they consider science. There are other important considerations.

Science also tells us humans must not eat sugar. I’m not giving up ice cream.

Because you suggest everyone is following Fauci which is an incredibly bad straw man, even for you. We have a lot of experts in immunology and public health. When Fauci speaks, I assume he is speaking for the task force, if not then Birx and the others need to correct him.
 
For gods sake, the man couldn’t even keep a rather significant spread away from his own house, the White House! And he gets your vote for managing the country, when he can’t even correctly manage the most secure home in America? That’s insane.

First, presidents do not manage the country.

Second microorganisms can’t can’t be managed.

Third, I don’t know why I respond to stupid posts.
 
Radiologist? Herd immunity? Waive off fire department? What are you talking about? What does that have to do with Fauci?

More scary to me is Biden’s promise to “follow science” to kill the virus, as if the virus kills us all. Policy makers don’t follow science, they consider science. There are other important considerations.

Science also tells us humans must not eat sugar. I’m not giving up ice cream.
You’re not even trying now. At least include one intelligent sounding thought to disguise your gaslighting.
 
Because you suggest everyone is following Fauci which is an incredibly bad straw man, even for you. We have a lot of experts in immunology and public health. When Fauci speaks, I assume he is speaking for the task force, if not then Birx and the others need to correct him.

No. He doesn’t always speak for the task force and he contradicts himself. He’s past his prime. People go nuts whenever Trump criticizes him, and Trump’s critics say Trump attacks the science as if there is such a thing as the science.

The incident commanders in these wildfires turnover on a regular basis because the job is so consuming. I think we need turnover in Fauci’s job. He is becoming increasingly ineffectual. His adherence to the bureaucratic method has always been apparent and it is becoming worse. This pandemic cries for fresh ideas and creativity.
 
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Long Covid: what we know so far
Lasting symptoms may not be down to a single syndrome but several different ones

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At the start of the pandemic we were told that Covid-19 was a respiratory illness from which most people would recover within two or three weeks, but it’s increasingly clear that there may be tens of thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands, who have been left experiencing symptoms months after becoming infected.

Now, the National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) has released a report which suggests that “long Covid” may not be a single syndrome, but up to four different ones, which some patients might be experiencing simultaneously. Here’s what we now know.

These symptoms may be due to four different syndromes:
  • permanent organ damage to the lungs and heart
  • post-intensive-care syndrome
  • post-viral fatigue syndrome
  • continuing Covid-19 symptoms


Variety of symptoms
Subtypes of lasting Covid identified by the NIHR included patients experiencing the after-effects of intensive care; those with post-viral fatigue; people with lasting organ damage; and those with fluctuating symptoms that move around the body.

“We believe that the term long Covid is being used as a catch-all for more than one syndrome, possibly up to four, and that the lack of distinction between these syndromes may explain the challenges people are having in being believed and accessing services,” said Dr Elaine Maxwell, the lead author of the report, which drew upon the experiences of patients and the latest published research. However, Prof Danny Altmann, an immunologist at Imperial College London, cautioned that narrowing long Covid down to just four syndromes might be too simplistic.

Recovering from ICU
Hospital discharge is often only the start of a lengthy recovery process. Many Covid-19 patients who have survived a period in intensive care are too weak to sit unaided or lift their arms off the bed, and some may even struggle to speak or swallow. They may also be affected by depression or post-traumatic stress disorder. However, severe lasting symptoms were not restricted to this group.

Post-viral fatigue
Many Covid “long-haulers” report fatigue, aching muscles and difficulty concentrating. The extent to which this overlaps with chronic fatigue syndrome is being investigated. CFS has previously been linked to infection with Epstein-Barr virus and Q fever. Studies of people who were infected during the 2003 Sars outbreak have also indicated that around a third of them had a reduced tolerance of exercise for many months, despite their lungs appearing healthy.

Lasting organ damage
Ongoing breathlessness, coughs, or a racing pulse could be symptoms of lasting damage to the lungs or heart, although this isn’t necessarily permanent. Lung damage seems particularly prevalent among patients who required hospital treatment for Covid-19. A recent study found that six weeks after leaving hospital, around half of patients were still experiencing breathlessness, dropping to 39% at 12 weeks. Meanwhile, approximately a third of hospitalised patients sustain heart damage, but those with seemingly mild infections can also be affected.

A separate study of 100 patients, many of whom had relatively mild symptoms when they were infected in March, revealed that 78 of them showed abnormal structural changes to their hearts on an MRI scan. These changes didn’t necessarily cause symptoms, and may dissipate with time, however. Ongoing problems with the liver and skin have also been reported.

Symptoms that fluctuate and move around body
Perhaps the weirdest group of Covid long-haulers are those with fluctuating symptoms. A common theme is that symptoms arise in one physiological system then abate, only for symptoms to arise in a different system, the NIHR report said. This fits with the results of a survey of long Covid support group members which found that 70% experienced fluctuations in the type of symptoms, and 89% in the intensity of their symptoms. Although the underlying mechanism remains unproven, such symptoms might fit with a disrupted immune system, Altmann said.

All ages affected
Estimates have suggested that 10% of Covid patients experience symptoms lasting longer than three weeks, and around one in 50 will still be ill at three months. The NIHR report said lasting symptoms had been observed in all age groups, including children, but unpublished results from the Covid Symptom Study suggest that women and older people may be at greater risk. “Above the age of 18, the risk of symptoms lasting for longer than a month seems to generally increase with age,” said Prof Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London who runs the study.

A particularly under-studied group are elderly care home residents. “What we’ve been hearing from frontline staff is that there’s a group of patients who maybe looked like they were recovering, and then had a relapse,” said Prof Karen Spilsbury, chair in nursing research at the University of Leeds, who has been studying the impact of Covid-19 on care home residents. Their strength and stamina seemed to suffer, while Covid may have accelerated the rate of cognitive decline in those with dementia.
We need to be more like Europe..oh wait
 
Science also tells us humans must not eat sugar.
I missed that one. Oh wait, you're making it up.

Modern human couch potatoes ought to not eat vastly more sugar than their bodies can metabolize and burn.

Carbs are essential. Glucose is fuel. Glucosidases are ubiquitous and efficiently convert sucrose to glucose and fructose. Nothing wrong with table sugar or any carbs, in moderation.

That said, I have lost a lot of weight over the last 2 years by limiting carbs.
 
We have Birx and the entire CDC and the Surgeon General. None have come out for herd immunity. What we don't need is a radiologist at the forefront. Imagine calling 911 because your house is on fire and the police respond and waive off the fire department.

i assume either big pharma has you on their payroll, or you have a huge big pharma position, as you seem bizarrely invested in the idea that no other strategy other than a miracle vaccine, possibly/probably years away from being perfected, tested, and disseminated, should even be discussed.

has there ever in history been a pandemic that wasn't ended by herd immunity.

and isn't a miracle vaccine just a means to herd immunity?

the problem with a vaccine ending a pandemic as i see it, is that with a pandemic, it spreads faster than a vaccine can be developed, tested, and disseminated to everyone.

thus "herd immunity" through spread happens before a vaccine can end it.

the initial hope with covid was that we could delay spread with masks and distancing indefinitely, years even, until a miracle vaccine could be developed, tested, and disseminated, to everybody.

and that everyone would be willing to take said vaccine.

how's that working out?

how long before a vaccine is perfected?

what percent will take it when it is rolled out.

but hey, the vaccine is right around the corner, right?

God forbid we at least explore other logical options in the meantime, just for that infinitesimal percentage chance a miracle vaccine isn't perfected tomorrow, and suddenly everybody decides to take it after all, even those who see themselves as effectively immune from the virus anyway.

that said, this isn't Spanish Flu, (which iirc was ended by herd immunity from spread), in that over half the population is relatively immune from dying from covid, and we already know who the relatively immune population is.

to not use that knowledge to build a large herd immune base, and keep the economy afloat without ruining the dollar as a currency while we wait for the miracle vaccine, seems like total idiocracy to me.

and again, your bizarre devotion to beating down attacking the problem from any angle that doesn't involve big pharma, seems odd at best.

we already know we can safely build a large herd immune base of well over half the population quite quickly, while we wait for the miracle vaccine or treatment.

and that base can sustain the economy in the meantime, since those relatively immune are the same group that does 90% of the discretionary spending.

and that well over half the population shouldn't return to normal life, just because everyone can't.

and that instead of throwing trillions after trillions of dollars at everyone and everything, strategically direct needed funds and logistics at those who ARE at risk to financially and logistically safely lock down in the meantime

so why not do so in the mean time, since doing so doesn't impede vaccine or treatment development in the slightest.

of course, in doing so, we possibly could safely achieve herd immunity before the miracle vaccine comes along and is taken by everyone, and save tens of thousands of lives in the meantime.

or at least save tens of thousands of lives and the economy and our currency, till the miracle happens.

all of which you and others seem bizarrely against for some reason, which neither you nor others can articulate.

waiting, hoping, for the miracle, needn't disqualify using what we already know about covid to attack the problem from a logistical pov in the mean time.

and using the vast savings to financially support those who are at risk, to safely lock down in the meantime.
 
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Ah, the meaningless response of a man who almost - not quite! - realizes he's full of shit.

still waiting for your plan, and why it's better than mine.

your plan, and why it's better than mine, seems more hidden away than Hunter. (and who thought that was possible).

sorry if 225,000 US deaths to date just isn't enough for you.

but since you're among the effectively immune, i guess you just don't care about anyone else.

is this really where or who you pictured yourself being??
 
You don't have a plan. Your "plan" is to just let people die.
Goat that mischaracterizes what he’s arguing: isolate the vulnerable and let it run through the the 99.8% plus that won’t die from it. I don’t know if that is prudent or not. It may be our only option if a vaccine isn’t in the offing. What’s kicking the can is the current mantra of new cases, new cases, new cases, followed by lockdowns with little regard to the staggering consequences of lockdowns from poverty (insidious health issues), educational setbacks, lost livelihoods, blah blah blah. The rub is do we have any evidence that herd immunity is achievable with this particular virus?
 
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he owns the pandemic and the deaths lmao. the guy with zero authority to do anything other than speak to a country where more than 50 % don't even listen to him and never voted for him, including 24 states and the largest cities in america. 1.3 million cases in a week in europe....most of the world, at one time or another, is failing with this virus. your trump hatred is clouding your ability to be rational. i have no clue what you guys are going to do when biden gets in and things are no better. pray for a vaccine. that's my hope.
 
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the media as well. new cases, new cases, scared the shit out of everyone and it had a deleterious impact on policy. you see it on this board. cases, cases, cases. health doesn't dictate policy. health should be a factor in policy decisions. it poisoned our response. poverty, business closings, school closings, health issues created from covid that aren't covid. on and on. we had a panicked response. i know you won't agree with this CO but i do believe obama would have shined here. i think he would have had a measured response that would have done a better job of considering broader policy implications and repercussions and it would have helped. americans being americans would have ultimately put us in peril in the end but things would have been a bit better
 
Goat that mischaracterizes what he’s arguing: isolate the vulnerable and let it run through the the 99.8% plus that won’t die from it. I don’t know if that is prudent or not. It may be our only option if a vaccine isn’t in the offing. What’s kicking the can is the current mantra of new cases, new cases, new cases, followed by lockdowns with little regard to the staggering consequences of lockdowns from poverty (insidious health issues), educational setbacks, lost livelihoods, blah blah blah. The rub is do we have any evidence that herd immunity is achievable with this particular virus?
The vulnerable can't be isolated. We let it spread, it will get to everyone eventually.
 
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First, presidents do not manage the country.

Second microorganisms can’t can’t be managed.

Third, I don’t know why I respond to stupid posts.
Maybe if you had given better HVAC advice, those systems would have filtered out the virus by now.
 
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Goat that mischaracterizes what he’s arguing: isolate the vulnerable and let it run through the the 99.8% plus that won’t die from it. I don’t know if that is prudent or not. It may be our only option if a vaccine isn’t in the offing. What’s kicking the can is the current mantra of new cases, new cases, new cases, followed by lockdowns with little regard to the staggering consequences of lockdowns from poverty (insidious health issues), educational setbacks, lost livelihoods, blah blah blah. The rub is do we have any evidence that herd immunity is achievable with this particular virus?
No one can tell ahead of time who is "vulnerable." Even elderly can be asymptomatic.

 
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