New Albany and Romeo on ESPNU Friday (link)

[jet812]

Get a premium membership.

That’s what I thought...

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Sigh.....you guys don’t get it.

IU has never been able to land enough elite talent outside the state.....EVER.

And news flash, they NEVER will.

IU needs Indians talent, period.

It’s has nothing to do with people believing Indiana kids are better. It has everything to do with the probability of landing that talent.

In 20 years who were the out of state 5 stars? Vonleh, Bryant, DJ White, Bracey Wright

Who were the in state kids?
Jeffries, Eric Gordon, Zeller, Yogi

There is a common theme between those 2 groups besides home state.

It kills me that there are people that can’t see this.

There is a reason Miller is all in with Romeo, Jackson-Davis, and Brooks.

It has something to do with people believing Indiana kids are better. Some people's posts in this thread are evidence of that.

Granted my scenario is hypothetical but if Indiana continues to have sluggish population growth, there may be a day when there isn't enough elite talent in Indiana alone to sustain a perennial power.

Hell, I'd argue that we might already be at that point. When we border Michigan, Kentucky, and Ohio you can bet that they're going to poach some of our top recruits no matter who the coach is, and hopefully we poach some of theirs.

CBB recruiting is so much more national than CFB, which is obviously more regional. I don't see the trends of Urbanization and sluggish population growth slowing down anytime soon.

I just don't buy the idea that our success has to oscillate based on the quality of the talent Indiana is turning out year over year. Archie is still earning his chops as a recruiter and obviously the '18 class is a massive upgrade over the type of classes he pulled in at Dayton, which is a GREAT sign.

For now, fine, focus on the low(er) hanging fruit in state, but I have to believe he's going to expand his sights eventually. Otherwise we could be in trouble.

I just don't believe that Calipari or Self or K or Roy couldn't come in and recruit nationally. It's much more about a coach with proven and existing nationwide network and his staff, than the state your campus happens to be located in. And a track record of winning and putting players in the league obviously helps too...

You say IU has NEVER been able to recruit enough talent out of state. Wouldn't you say that is more of a product of having lame duck coaches the past 20+ years, and before that recruiting being much more local? If you can get them to go to Lawrence you can get them to go to Bloomington.

Weird conversation in that I would like to see us throw a net over Indiana High School Basketball as much as you would. I just think you're overly optimistic about being able to rely on the state as our life blood each year and pessimistic about our ability to pull from other states.

 

[MKordIUBB]

You're completely missing the point. On a case by case basis, each recruits origin state is irrelevant.

You could be a successful ball coach at IU never take a recruit from the state of Indiana. You shouldn't do that, you'd be making life a lot harder on yourself, but you theoretically could.

Too often we see stuff on this board like....

"A 4 star from Indiana is a 5 star in any other state"

or

" Indiana recruits usually have better basketball IQ's, that's why they're important to have"

It's nonsense promulgated by gray beards on this site that still think every Indiana kid grows up with a backboard attached to their barn.

You’re right. A five star is a five star being from Indiana doesn’t make anyone better....however, when you are Indiana, you should be able to rule state recruiting. Here are a few reasons

1. Many people in Indiana, including top recruits, grow up liking Indiana

2. People from Indiana do feel partially connected with in-State recruits

3. Closer to home

4. It’s Indiana. That alone should entice someone to come to IU, as it does for Duke and Kentucky. It’s not like that now, but I see it being that way in the future

 

[IndianaHoops]

It has something to do with people believing Indiana kids are better. Some people's posts in this thread are evidence of that.

Granted my scenario is hypothetical but if Indiana continues to have sluggish population growth, there may be a day when there isn't enough elite talent in Indiana alone to sustain a perennial power.

Hell, I'd argue that we might already be at that point. When we border Michigan, Kentucky, and Ohio you can bet that they're going to poach some of our top recruits no matter who the coach is, and hopefully we poach some of theirs.

CBB recruiting is so much more national than CFB, which is obviously more regional. I don't see the trends of Urbanization and sluggish population growth slowing down anytime soon.

I just don't buy the idea that our success has to oscillate based on the quality of the talent Indiana is turning out year over year. Archie is still earning his chops as a recruiter and obviously the '18 class is a massive upgrade over the type of classes he pulled in at Dayton, which is a GREAT sign.

For now, fine, focus on the low(er) hanging fruit in state, but I have to believe he's going to expand his sights eventually. Otherwise we could be in trouble.

I just don't believe that Calipari or Self or K or Roy couldn't come in and recruit nationally. It's much more about a coach with proven and existing nationwide network and his staff, than the state your campus happens to be located in. And a track record of winning and putting players in the league obviously helps too...

You say IU has NEVER been able to recruit enough talent out of state. Wouldn't you say that is more of a product of having lame duck coaches the past 20+ years, and before that recruiting being much more local? If you can get them to go to Lawrence you can get them to go to Bloomington.

Weird conversation in that I would like to see us throw a net over Indiana High School Basketball as much as you would. I just think you're overly optimistic about being able to rely on the state as our life blood each year and pessimistic about our ability to pull from other states.

It’s easy....

Even with Knight and McCracken, Indiana talent was the life blood of the program.

Could you say those coaches became lame ducks because they tried to recruit nationally without Indiana talent?

 

[IndianaHoops]

That’s what I thought...

For example, who were the recruits at the last game?

What did they do? Who did they spend time with?

If you think Miller isn’t making Indiana kids a priority, you haven’t been paying attention

 

[TR32]

There are some trends in this thread that have to do with probability.

Ex. 1. Indiana generally has walk ons from Indiana because walk ons are not on scholarship and thus they are more likely to be local. So is it a coincidence with McRoberts "being one of our best players"? No, it is not. We are thin in the front court due to departures and injuries and Zach is a 4th year.

Ex. 2. The post indicating where Indiana's 5-star players have come from- first, I have to mention that Bryant was a high 4-star. But also if we go back that far, Luke Recker was a 5. The point being made in that post didn't seem to acknowledge that Indiana had recruited 5-star guys almost 1 for 1, by in or out of state.

Ex. 3. The reason that there are "4 Indy kids for every small town kid" is simply population. The state of Indiana has good basketball throughout but a quarter of the population is in the greater Indy metro area. Thus, 4:1.

My personal thoughts on recruiting- we get better impact from good 3 and 4 star players than 5 star because recruiting one and doners puts too much pressure on recruiting ability instead of coaching ability. The minute Cal stops getting top 10 kids he no longer has a capable final four level team.

I much prefer an Indiana program that has an effective plug and play style and identity.

Right now Indiana needs shooters and effective guards to complement the new focus on post offense. Romeo would fit that bill but only for a season. I'm not sure next year is the season to get the one and done type guy. They need guards to stay in the program.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

It’s easy....

Even with Knight and McCracken, Indiana talent was the life blood of the program.

Could you say those coaches became lame ducks because they tried to recruit nationally without Indiana talent?

No I'd say they're both pretty pedestrian coaches overall, that's why one is in the broadcast booth and one is at Texas Southern (Davis actually isn't terrible).

I think recruiting has changed just a bit since 80's and maybe even a bit more since McCracken was coaching, but if you think it hasn't so be it.

Maybe I'm hoping for too much. Maybe milking Indiana for everything we can, and pulling in the occasional out of state stud is the best we can hope for.

Just don't be surprised when Archie isn't always able to keep Izzo and Calipari from continuing to poach our recruits. The kind of lock down you're hoping for is a thing of the past most likely.

 

[IU Scott]

5* - dont care where they come from, just as long as they come to IU.

Would be great to get two or so one and done level talent guys each year. I wonder what Archies philosophy is toward recruiting these type of players.

I really don't want a roster full of one and done players. I will mix them in with the 3 and 4 year players who will be here to establish the program.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I have other plans Friday night.

You ever heard of a VCR......I mean DVR?

 

[VanPastorMan]

It has something to do with people believing Indiana kids are better. Some people's posts in this thread are evidence of that.

Granted my scenario is hypothetical but if Indiana continues to have sluggish population growth, there may be a day when there isn't enough elite talent in Indiana alone to sustain a perennial power.

Hell, I'd argue that we might already be at that point. When we border Michigan, Kentucky, and Ohio you can bet that they're going to poach some of our top recruits no matter who the coach is, and hopefully we poach some of theirs.

CBB recruiting is so much more national than CFB, which is obviously more regional. I don't see the trends of Urbanization and sluggish population growth slowing down anytime soon.

I just don't buy the idea that our success has to oscillate based on the quality of the talent Indiana is turning out year over year. Archie is still earning his chops as a recruiter and obviously the '18 class is a massive upgrade over the type of classes he pulled in at Dayton, which is a GREAT sign.

For now, fine, focus on the low(er) hanging fruit in state, but I have to believe he's going to expand his sights eventually. Otherwise we could be in trouble.

I just don't believe that Calipari or Self or K or Roy couldn't come in and recruit nationally. It's much more about a coach with proven and existing nationwide network and his staff, than the state your campus happens to be located in. And a track record of winning and putting players in the league obviously helps too...

You say IU has NEVER been able to recruit enough talent out of state. Wouldn't you say that is more of a product of having lame duck coaches the past 20+ years, and before that recruiting being much more local? If you can get them to go to Lawrence you can get them to go to Bloomington.

Weird conversation in that I would like to see us throw a net over Indiana High School Basketball as much as you would. I just think you're overly optimistic about being able to rely on the state as our life blood each year and pessimistic about our ability to pull from other states.

I believe if IU got most of the top talent in the state every year we would be very competitive. Indiana produces a lot of talent despite it only being about 5 million in population.

 

[Davehack]

I really don't want a roster full of one and done players. I will mix them in with the 3 and 4 year players who will be here to establish the program.

Right. Just imagine if "back in the day" our best players could bolt to the NBA early like they do now. Not sure how many magical seasons we would have had. Out history would be full of "what ifs".

 

[hondo314]

It has something to do with people believing Indiana kids are better. Some people's posts in this thread are evidence of that.

Granted my scenario is hypothetical but if Indiana continues to have sluggish population growth, there may be a day when there isn't enough elite talent in Indiana alone to sustain a perennial power.

Hell, I'd argue that we might already be at that point. When we border Michigan, Kentucky, and Ohio you can bet that they're going to poach some of our top recruits no matter who the coach is, and hopefully we poach some of theirs.

CBB recruiting is so much more national than CFB, which is obviously more regional. I don't see the trends of Urbanization and sluggish population growth slowing down anytime soon.

I just don't buy the idea that our success has to oscillate based on the quality of the talent Indiana is turning out year over year. Archie is still earning his chops as a recruiter and obviously the '18 class is a massive upgrade over the type of classes he pulled in at Dayton, which is a GREAT sign.

For now, fine, focus on the low(er) hanging fruit in state, but I have to believe he's going to expand his sights eventually. Otherwise we could be in trouble.

I just don't believe that Calipari or Self or K or Roy couldn't come in and recruit nationally. It's much more about a coach with proven and existing nationwide network and his staff, than the state your campus happens to be located in. And a track record of winning and putting players in the league obviously helps too...

You say IU has NEVER been able to recruit enough talent out of state. Wouldn't you say that is more of a product of having lame duck coaches the past 20+ years, and before that recruiting being much more local? If you can get them to go to Lawrence you can get them to go to Bloomington.

Weird conversation in that I would like to see us throw a net over Indiana High School Basketball as much as you would. I just think you're overly optimistic about being able to rely on the state as our life blood each year and pessimistic about our ability to pull from other states.

Tom Crean agreed!

The Big Ten generally, and Indiana specifically, have usually built teams with instate talent or from one or two states over. Not sure why, but it's been the formula for success. Tommy had to branch out and it was a big fail.

Now you're on to talk of urbanization. Weird.