Breaking right now, very few details to report, but good times on your favorite cable news network at the moment.
Mueller indicts 13 Russians for election meddling.
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
No Putin. 
This has got to be pretty shocking for Trump. What's his first tweet on this part of the witch hunt going to say? That's a serious quantity of indictments and shows that Mueller's team is producing results.
It also ought to put the clamps on Republicans who are trying to sweep Mueller under the carpet.
I wonder how this will affect conservatives' newfound bromance with all things Russian.
This has got to be pretty shocking for Trump. What's his first tweet on this part of the witch hunt going to say? That's a serious quantity of indictments and shows that Mueller's team is producing results.
It also ought to put the clamps on Republicans who are trying to sweep Mueller under the carpet.
I wonder how this will affect conservatives' newfound bromance with all things Russian.
Indictment basically lays a lot of the pieces out and that some lower level people in/associated with the Trump campaign (i.e. a county chair in Florida) "unwittingly" coordinated with the Russians. They were pro-Trump/Sanders & anti-Clinton to try to sow discord.
Facebook ads, organizing rallies, stealing US citizen identities, paying/recruiting people to support Trump and show up at rallies. Lots of their Facebook groups had hundreds of thousands of followers.
Clearly crimes here and we're just missing the clear proof of collusion at a higher level, which might come from Manafort/Kushner/Don Jr, etc.
Facebook ads, organizing rallies, stealing US citizen identities, paying/recruiting people to support Trump and show up at rallies. Lots of their Facebook groups had hundreds of thousands of followers.
Clearly crimes here and we're just missing the clear proof of collusion at a higher level, which might come from Manafort/Kushner/Don Jr, etc.
Rosenstein was clear that there is no allegation "in this indictment" that any Americans were involved. However, the indictment does mention that "other people known and unknown to the Grand Jury" were co-conspirators. Without predicting how high this will eventually go, I don't think anyone should assume it is going to stop here. This is not the end game.
There is no conservative “bromance with all things Russian.” That’s basically Trump alone for the most part. There is no love for Russia among Mattis, Tillerson, McMasters or Haley, and Republicans voted unanimously (or nearly so) in Congress to add additional sanctions on Russia for meddling in our election. This tendency among some to tarnish all Republicans with the stupid stuff the RINO in the White House says or does is quite irritating.No Putin.
This has got to be pretty shocking for Trump. What's his first tweet on this part of the witch hunt going to say? That's a serious quantity of indictments and shows that Mueller's team is producing results.
It also ought to put the clamps on Republicans who are trying to sweep Mueller under the carpet.
I wonder how this will affect conservatives' newfound bromance with all things Russian.
This does look like they might be getting closer.
Here's a guy who was probably key to getting these indictments. An American citizen pleaded guilty to helping "Company 1" use fake bank accounts. Possible 15 year sentence, bargained down to 12-18 months. Again, this is an American citizen.
https://www.justice.gov/file/1035547/download
https://www.justice.gov/file/1035547/download
You don't think the Nunes memo is indicative of a viewpoint toward the Russia investigation?
Nunes is trying to protect Trump. It’s not about love for Russia. The vote in the House to impose more sanctions on Russia was 419-3 and it was 98-2 in the Senate, with Sanders (who honeymooned in Russia, of all places) and Paul (who is a bit of a nut like his dad) voting against them.
Closer to something, for sure. We don't even have an extradition treaty with Russia. So it's really hard to imagine this is the pillar. Especially since Mueller cut a deal with the one American that we know about so far. Why would he cut a deal with someone just to get an indictment against some foreigners that will never see the inside of an American courtroom? This is a big step, but it's still just a step. Mueller is still going somewhere else with this.
In theory would the same laws applied to indict the Russians be applicable to any group of "illegals" supporting their preferred position or candidate with Facebook and/or other Internet communication or get out the vote activity? I have not posted in a long time but still read the Forum daily as my preferred means of early morning entertainment.
Nunes, Rohrbacher, and others. Tillerson also heavily pro-Russian. Look at the poll movement. Republicans increasingly support Putin in record numbers.
Sanders voted against the bill due to the Iran sanctions. He supported the Russian aspect.
Important note:
I'm still chewing over this indictment, but this sticks out. Although the indictment does not accuse any campaign officials or other Americans of knowingly conspiring with Russians, it does charge several cases of actual U.S. people either involved with the campaign or with political activism working with and accepting money from IRA. The indictment states very clearly such help and payment is a violating of campaign laws. As such, it is critical for the campaign and other political activists that they were actually duped, because if any Americans were involved in this knowingly, then those Americans committed crimes. Again, this indictment does not accuse actual Americans of being knowing parties in this fraud. But if any of them were, they should be sweating bullets right now.
I'm still chewing over this indictment, but this sticks out. Although the indictment does not accuse any campaign officials or other Americans of knowingly conspiring with Russians, it does charge several cases of actual U.S. people either involved with the campaign or with political activism working with and accepting money from IRA. The indictment states very clearly such help and payment is a violating of campaign laws. As such, it is critical for the campaign and other political activists that they were actually duped, because if any Americans were involved in this knowingly, then those Americans committed crimes. Again, this indictment does not accuse actual Americans of being knowing parties in this fraud. But if any of them were, they should be sweating bullets right now.
I would like to believe what you say, since it is my observation that the Pubs had been traditionally anti-Russian until this Trump phenom.
if that were the case, how come the other Pubs have not come out to help the investigation, instead of defending Trump and roadblocking the investigation?
Somewhere in today's press release they said the indictment does not claim that any Americans knowingly communicated with Russians about this. Obviously, this stops short of saying that there is no evidence anywhere in the universe that exonerates every single American but you can guess how the conservatives will spin it.No Putin.
This has got to be pretty shocking for Trump. What's his first tweet on this part of the witch hunt going to say? That's a serious quantity of indictments and shows that Mueller's team is producing results.
It also ought to put the clamps on Republicans who are trying to sweep Mueller under the carpet.
I wonder how this will affect conservatives' newfound bromance with all things Russian.
It doesn't say "no evidence" and Rosenstein didn't say "no evidence." All Rosenstein said was that this indictment doesn't accuse Americans of being willing participants. Every time he brought it up, he made it a point to say "this indictment."
In other words, it means nothing. There may be a ton of evidence; there may be none. Mueller may have proof that Trump himself colluded with Russia; he may have no evidence pointing to even the lowliest staffer. Nothing in the indictment today tells us one way or the other.
Very few I know have ever doubted that the Russian government is in the business of disrupting elections, not only in America, but worldwide. Wake me up when one scintilla of hard evidence is brought forth that POTUS was in it.
I'm not claiming there is any such evidence. But you went beyond that and suggested that Rosenstein and/or the indictment said something it didn't.
And why haven’t they insisted on Trump actually implementing the sanctions they overwhelmingly voted on?I would like to believe what you say, since it is my observation that the Pubs had been traditionally anti-Russian until this Trump phenom.
if that were the case, how come the other Pubs have not come out to help the investigation, instead of defending Trump and roadblocking the investigation?
Uh, it didn't say there is "no evidence" (as my post pointed out). It just pointed out that the present indictment doesn't make this particular claim. Thus, yes, there may be some spin.
Look, I don't mean to be any more condescending than you were, but do you understand Venn diagrams? If so, you really should construct a Venn diagram of this stuff.
It's really a lot simpler than trying to understand the verbal method of "if P then 1" etc. etc. blah blah blah.
Good luck Hillz !
The indictment also didn't deny the existence of UFOs, so imma set up the ol' telescope.
The indictment also didn’t deny that Islam is the one true faith, so you better buy yourself a Koran.
I’ve missed that. Obviously not many, no one has introduced a bill, held a group press conference etc. They don’t seem too serious about it.
I'm going to try to get this back on track. Here are my biggest takeaways from the indictment:
1. The Russian campaign to screw with our election was more organized and extensive than you think.
2. The odds you interacted with/were duped by a Russian operative are greater than you hope.
3. What Russia did was illegal.
4. U.S. persons working for/on behalf of Trump worked with Russians.
5. There is no claim in this indictment any of the U.S. persons in #4 were aware of what was going on.
6. If they were aware, they had better be lawyering up super fast.
1. The Russian campaign to screw with our election was more organized and extensive than you think.
2. The odds you interacted with/were duped by a Russian operative are greater than you hope.
3. What Russia did was illegal.
4. U.S. persons working for/on behalf of Trump worked with Russians.
5. There is no claim in this indictment any of the U.S. persons in #4 were aware of what was going on.
6. If they were aware, they had better be lawyering up super fast.
What bill could they pass? A “hey, pay attention to our other bill” bill?
Ah, but that's not what you asked, is it? Are you now claiming UFOs exist and looking for support?
Re No. 6, if they were aware, they better be figuring out how to explain if/why/how they were so stupid. (It won't be good enough just to say, "But, Mueller hasn't indicted me fot this, yet.").
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