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https://www.ozy.com/the-huddle/the-nit-was-awesome-until-the-ncaa-ruined-basketball/83025

“It was a national championship,” confirms Doug Bruno, current head coach of the DePaul women’s team who also played under Meyer from 1968 to 1973. “It was Madison Square Garden. It was the mecca of college basketball. It’s what everyone had their eyes on. The NCAA — yes, they had a tournament, but it was really an afterthought tournament at that point.”

“In those years, the NIT was a more prestigious tournament than the NCAA,” Meyer wrote in his autobiography Coach. “It was played in New York, while the NCAA was played on scattered campuses in smaller towns. The schools took home thousands of dollars as their share of the gate receipts for playing in Madison Square Garden. In the NCAA eliminations, they were lucky to make expenses. So the NIT meant a lot more to a struggling private school like DePaul.”

“I think you have to consider them both national championships,” Bruno says. “But at the same time, the NIT was the premiere tournament. You talk to anybody who was around college basketball in the ’30s and ’40s, and they’ll all tell you that the NIT was the bigger of the two championships.”

All that I wrote were facts, 2 opinions from the same private school are not facts. The NCAA tourney began in 1939. The 11 years that Bruno and Meyer wrote about, I furnished some facts that would dispute that. But, clearly, IUs NCAA championship in 1940, are supported by facts as being the legit National Champ. 1953 is also indisputable.
 
Davis, Crean the ISU guy when Bird was there and Dale Brown all made the FF. Yet people here claim that they are/were bad coaches. So accepting that as true, then coaching acumen has NOTHING to do with making a FF. If acumen has nothing to do with it,then randomness must play a role. You cannot hold simultaneously contradictory positions on this logically.

As for the NIT/early NCAA debate, the question is simple: which was the more important venue that would receive the most public recognition. In those days there was no real television. (The 1963 NCAA Championship game, won by Loyola of Chicago, was not even broadcast live in Chicago; it was on tape-delay. In those days, media was even more concentrated in NYC than today, so that tells you what was viewed as more important.

The first NCAA was held at the old NW gm in Evanston The one IU won was in KC,iirc. Is anyone going to argue that those venues had more media focus and viewed as seriously as NYC? Even today, the media market of NYC is the largest, as measured by the prices paid for sports tv rights. That is the reason Rutgers is in the B1G - to bring in the metro NYC market.
 
Purdue is lousy in Athletics. Your basketball program is decent. You suck in everything else. Including Football.
I don't know about non-revenue sports but PU basketball and football are putting themselves in positions to be successful for the next few seasons. Both have been putting together some good recruiting classes.

PU basketball will contend again for another B1G Championship next season and another good run in the NCAA Tournament.

I know the football team will not suck. Look at this schedule. No Michigan and Ohio State. A pretty easy non-conference schedule. With the QB, Sindelar starting, WR, Rondale Moore, key defensive players back, great incoming freshman class, on paper I predict a 9-3 or dare I say 10-2 season. Penn State is the only team I see to really worry about. Certainly won't be the Hoosiers. Purdue will challenge for the West Division BIG.

Nevada
Vanderbilt
TCU
Minnesota
Penn State
Maryland
Iowa
Illinois
Nebraska
Northwestern
Wisconsin
Indiana
 
Purdue is lousy in Athletics. Your basketball program is decent. You suck in everything else. Including Football.
giphy.gif
 
If it makes y’all feel better to talk about IU’s last championships, the last one being a generation ago, so be it. The fact of the matter is that the current status of IU basketball is jacked up. I don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel at all. By the time Phinesse graduates, he may never appear in an NCAA tournament.
Lol. You don't even know if PU will make the NCAA's next year. Painter has had back-to-back losing seasons after losing all of his players.

Once again, PU is a never has been.
 
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I don't know about non-revenue sports but PU basketball and football are putting themselves in positions to be successful for the next few seasons.
Volleyball, track, and golf are good. Diving has Had recent Olympic medalists, Waz had baseball almost win the conference tournament last year and will bounce back from this season when his players mature. Then of course football and basketball are in good spots like you mentioned. Women's basketball needs to get it together though.
 
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Say, that brings up a question......in what millennium did Indiana University last have a football victory over any of that list?

Purdue has beaten them all at least once since 2000.
Just an FYI, saying Purdue has beat those 4 teams at least once since 2000 doesn't sound very good either.
The present. Go talk about it and your dusty accomplishments on the football site.
 
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I don't know about non-revenue sports but PU basketball and football are putting themselves in positions to be successful for the next few seasons. Both have been putting together some good recruiting classes.

PU basketball will contend again for another B1G Championship next season and another good run in the NCAA Tournament.

I know the football team will not suck. Look at this schedule. No Michigan and Ohio State. A pretty easy non-conference schedule. With the QB, Sindelar starting, WR, Rondale Moore, key defensive players back, great incoming freshman class, on paper I predict a 9-3 or dare I say 10-2 season. Penn State is the only team I see to really worry about. Certainly won't be the Hoosiers. Purdue will challenge for the West Division BIG.

Nevada
Vanderbilt
TCU
Minnesota
Penn State
Maryland
Iowa
Illinois
Nebraska
Northwestern
Wisconsin
Indiana
Jimmy and Jimbo are Purdue obsessed trolls who post exclusively about everything Boilermaker. They aren’t IU fans or knowledgeable about the University or its sports programs. Pay them no attention.
 
Lol. You don't even know if PU will make the NCAA's next year. Painter has had back-to-back losing seasons after losing all of his players.

Once again, PU is a never has been.
Last season, after losing 4 senior starters PU went to the Elite 8 game. As usual y'all are going back into the past. Perhaps you are talking in 2013 after the Moore, Hummel, Johnson era. This upcoming season, they lose Edwards and Cline. PU will be a more balanced team and perhaps a better team than last season. It won't be a matter of making the tourney, its whether what seed they will get. I predict another 3 seed.
 
Last season, after losing 4 senior starters PU went to the Elite 8 game. As usual y'all are going back into the past. Perhaps you are talking in 2013 after the Moore, Hummel, Johnson era. This upcoming season, they lose Edwards and Cline. PU will be a more balanced team and perhaps a better team than last season. It won't be a matter of making the tourney, its whether what seed they will get. I predict another 3 seed.
Lol. Fire away, Nojel, lol.
 
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Last season, after losing 4 senior starters PU went to the Elite 8 game. As usual y'all are going back into the past. Perhaps you are talking in 2013 after the Moore, Hummel, Johnson era. This upcoming season, they lose Edwards and Cline. PU will be a more balanced team and perhaps a better team than last season. It won't be a matter of making the tourney, its whether what seed they will get. I predict another 3 seed.

Ya, t’was a million years ago lol
 
So why has IU still out-recruited PU most years, even with IU in it’s worst stretch in history & PU in it’s best? The IU brand still carries weight, even if not as much as 20 years ago. Be a better troll...
What does that say about IU coaching if they have our recruited PU only to lose to them on the court?
 
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For one thing this is a 6 page thread about a Purdue recruit.

For one thing, IU was in on him...so maybe that’s why it’s a topic...

Even more the IU fans, you’d think Boilers fans would learn to stay humble. Plus do abetes is no joke and you should enjoy this magical ride with Painter while he has his health!
 
At least you tried. Doesn't dwarfism impact your lifespan? Archie better get it turned around quick if so.
Hey moron! how many NCAA titles does Purdue have overall? Not a sports school. It is hard to attract the top notch athletes there. Even in the non revenue sports. Get some titles loser! I guess you get your kicks when you are slightly better than IU. So sad!
 
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What does that say about IU coaching if they have our recruited PU only to lose to them on the court?

It says that our coaching has not been good, which is why we have fired coaches & will again if they don’t perform. I certainly haven’t touted the coaching, only that as a brand IU has remained superior to PU. That’s why in spite of their on-court success they continue to have an inferiority complex & spend their time on the IU board convincing some of us & themselves that they’re something they’re not...
 
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All that I wrote were facts, 2 opinions from the same private school are not facts. The NCAA tourney began in 1939. The 11 years that Bruno and Meyer wrote about, I furnished some facts that would dispute that. But, clearly, IUs NCAA championship in 1940, are supported by facts as being the legit National Champ. 1953 is also indisputable.
A HoF coach and an actual player vs a fan.

Of course it’s logical to take the word of the fan who is only looking at information that supports his school over two people that actually played and coached at the collegiate level.

Or maybe not.

How about The History Channel (specifically #2 that references another HoF coach) .....

https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-march-madness

Or yet another HoF coach that is more germane to IU basketball than ..... pretty much anyone .....

http://www.nabc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/080805aac.html

You’re killing your own argument by focusing on one team and two seasons while ignoring the entirety of that era. People that actually played and coached at the highest possible level in college hoops are refuting what you’re posting.

Yet what you post is indisputable.

That’s just sad.
 
A HoF coach and an actual player vs a fan.

Of course it’s logical to take the word of the fan who is only looking at information that supports his school over two people that actually played and coached at the collegiate level.

Or maybe not.

How about The History Channel (specifically #2 that references another HoF coach) .....

https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-march-madness

Or yet another HoF coach that is more germane to IU basketball than ..... pretty much anyone .....

http://www.nabc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/080805aac.html

You’re killing your own argument by focusing on one team and two seasons while ignoring the entirety of that era. People that actually played and coached at the highest possible level in college hoops are refuting what you’re posting.

Yet what you post is indisputable.

That’s just sad.
Things were settled on the court in 1940, and the NCAA (and IU) came out on top: that is how things get settled in every tournament in every sport. By 1953, the NCAA was clearly better than the NIT. Not to mention the players, coaches, and teams that played and coached in the NCAA's since the start. History has vindicated the NCAA's and its methods: it is what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Iba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell
 
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Things were settled on the court in 1940, and the NCAA (and IU) came out on top: that is how things get settled in every tournament in every sport. By 1953, the NCAA was clearly better than the NIT. Not to mention the players, coaches, and teams that played and coached in the NCAA's since the start. History has vindicated the NCAA's and its methods: it is what it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Iba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell
That's it Jimbo, keep up the fight in proving those championships 66 and 79 years ago get the respect they deserve! They were much more important than a championship decided by a bakery as you put it!
 
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A HoF coach and an actual player vs a fan.

Of course it’s logical to take the word of the fan who is only looking at information that supports his school over two people that actually played and coached at the collegiate level.

Or maybe not.

How about The History Channel (specifically #2 that references another HoF coach) .....

https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-march-madness

Or yet another HoF coach that is more germane to IU basketball than ..... pretty much anyone .....

http://www.nabc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/080805aac.html

You’re killing your own argument by focusing on one team and two seasons while ignoring the entirety of that era. People that actually played and coached at the highest possible level in college hoops are refuting what you’re posting.

Yet what you post is indisputable.

That’s just sad.

Various people have mentioned years other than the years IU won, including the years San Francisco, Holy Cross, Wyoming and Kentucky won. You have ignored these posts and chose to post a few quotes. You can find similar quotes saying the exact opposite but I prefer to compare and contrast the actual tournaments. What is sad is an IU fan backing up mathboy and other PU trolls who have tried to minimize IU’s 40 and 53 National titles for years (dating back to the indystar days). Each and every time they are refuted by facts about those years. I find it sad that an IU fan will not admit IU was the best team in nation in 40 and 53 despite the overwhelming evidence that they were. I guess it is hard for some people to admit they were wrong
 
Various people have mentioned years other than the years IU won, including the years San Francisco, Holy Cross, Wyoming and Kentucky won. You have ignored these posts and chose to post a few quotes. You can find similar quotes saying the exact opposite but I prefer to compare and contrast the actual tournaments. What is sad is an IU fan backing up mathboy and other PU trolls who have tried to minimize IU’s 40 and 53 National titles for years (dating back to the indystar days). Each and every time they are refuted by facts about those years. I find it sad that an IU fan will not admit IU was the best team in nation in 40 and 53 despite the overwhelming evidence that they were. I guess it is hard for some people to admit they were wrong
Where did I state that IU wasn’t the best team in the country in 1940 or 1953? Please be very specific.

I did state that the NCAA tournament was the lesser of the two national postseason tournaments during that era (emphasis on ERA) and have posted three different articles that support that statement, including quotes from people that played and/or coached at the highest level of college hoops (you know, that guy RMK for one).

What is sad is an IU fan not having the ability to simply step outside their IU box and build a cogent argument. If I wanted to read drivel like that, I’d go to Rupp’s Rafters.
 
That's it Jimbo, keep up the fight in proving those championships 66 and 79 years ago get the respect they deserve! They were much more important than a championship decided by a bakery as you put it!
They are NCAA championships that were decided on the court, not by a baker. Don't crap on something that you haven't achieved. It is sour grapes and makes you look bad.
 
They are NCAA championships that were decided on the court, not by a baker. Don't crap on something that you haven't achieved. It is sour grapes and makes you look bad.
ive said plenty of times in this thread idc about those. I'm glad you have them to cling to for your sake but even if they were Purdue championships they wouldn't be anything more than a banner and added trivia to talk about for me.

I'm 26 so anything before the early 2000s I don't care about. To be consistent I guess I should say I don't care about the rose bowl year like most Purdue fans. I love Brees as an NFL player and a rep for Purdue but I never saw him play at Purdue so I don't have that same satisfaction from it and don't feel the need to brag about it.

You feel the need to defend and brag about things you would need to be in your mid 70s to have any quality memory of and that ok. That's your thing and the lack of current success has you living in the past. I get it!
 
ive said plenty of times in this thread idc about those. I'm glad you have them to cling to for your sake but even if they were Purdue championships they wouldn't be anything more than a banner and added trivia to talk about for me.

I'm 26 so anything before the early 2000s I don't care about. To be consistent I guess I should say I don't care about the rose bowl year like most Purdue fans. I love Brees as an NFL player and a rep for Purdue but I never saw him play at Purdue so I don't have that same satisfaction from it and don't feel the need to brag about it.

You feel the need to defend and brag about things you would need to be in your mid 70s to have any quality memory of and that ok. That's your thing and the lack of current success has you living in the past. I get it!
If you don't care about the banners, then cease talking about them: nobody has a gun to your head. This is an IU site. Most programs are proud of their tradition: if you want to crap on it without having accomplished it, then f off. It doesn't mean anybody is clinging to anything or living in the past. Rather, those are your strawmen that you have set up in an attempt to crap on IU's tradition. Grow the hell up and cut out the sour grapes nonsense.

Bottom line: you're a guest and you are being a dick. You have more than worn out your welcome.
 
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If you don't care about the banners, then cease talking about them: nobody has a gun to your head. This is an IU site. Most programs are proud of their tradition: if you want to crap on it without having accomplished it, then f off. It doesn't mean anybody is clinging to anything or living in the past. Rather, those are your strawmen that you have set up in an attempt to crap on IU's tradition. Grow the hell up and cut out the sour grapes nonsense.

Bottom line: you're a guest and you are being a dick.
The great thing about written word is we can go back and see who wrote what.

I entered this thread about a Purdue recruit asking an IU poster why he changed from wanting Morton to saying he'd rather have other recruits.

Our interaction began with me saying the following to a completely different poster who I had a good interaction with.

If Archie starts recruiting 57 year olds then you guys are really in trouble

You commented on that with the following

It has been 88 years since PU's last fake bakery championship.

Lol you immediately took it to old championships so don't try and tell me that I can't stop talking about banners when you brought them into the conversation.

You even bring up Purdues "fake" championship more than any Purdue fan so I feel completely fine saying you live in the past. I understand the current state of the program is frustrating for you so you talk about the tradition of the glory days. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you take every topic to that but you do and again that's fine because you've made that your thing. Also I'm not saying not to be proud of them. I just wouldn't brag about them if it were me because I didn't get the satisfaction of seeing them. The most recent one is the same age as the 3pt line isn't it?
 
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Where did I state that IU wasn’t the best team in the country in 1940 or 1953? Please be very specific.

I did state that the NCAA tournament was the lesser of the two national postseason tournaments during that era (emphasis on ERA) and have posted three different articles that support that statement, including quotes from people that played and/or coached at the highest level of college hoops (you know, that guy RMK for one).

What is sad is an IU fan not having the ability to simply step outside their IU box and build a cogent argument. If I wanted to read drivel like that, I’d go to Rupp’s Rafters.

Mathboy said two of IU’s titles were from when the NCAA tournament was for runners up. Jimmy correctly stated this was false and you agreed with mathboy. Mathboy was saying IU was not the best team in the country in 40 and 53 and you agreed with him. Jimmy then posted the details of IU’s 40 and 53 titles and instead of commending him on an excellent post you started listing teams like Wyoming, Holy Cross and San Francisco as proof you were right. When posters pointed out how good those teams weee in those particular years you simply ignored it. It’s okay you didn’t know how good Holy Cross was with Cousy or San Francisco with Russell and Jones but you would do well to admit it and move on.

I love IU basketball and have read books on it’s history. So I will happily defend the 40 and 53 titles while you post a few quotes and ignore posts showing that IU was the best team in the country in 40 and 53 or that San Francisco, Wyoming and Holy Cross deserved their titles as well.
 
The champions of both the NCAA and NIT tournaments played each other for a few years during World War II. From 1943 to 1945, the American Red Cross sponsored a postseason charity game between each year's tournament champions to raise money for the war effort.[22] The series was described by Ray Meyer as not just benefit games, but as "really the games for the national championship".[23]The NCAA champion prevailed in all three games.[24]

^^^^ this is from the NIT Wikipedia article. I would certainly not claim that the NCAA champion was better than the NIT champion every year in the 40s and 50s but it certainly seems that when the opportunity came to prove it on the court, more often than not the NCAA champion came out on top. To me that is more important than some old quotes about how superior the NIT was. I think it might even be a little east coast bias.
 
The great thing about written word is we can go back and see who wrote what.

I entered this thread about a Purdue recruit asking an IU poster why he changed from wanting Morton to saying he'd rather have other recruits.

Our interaction began with me saying the following to a completely different poster who I had a good interaction with.



You commented on that with the following



Lol you immediately took it to old championships so don't try and tell me that I can't stop talking about banners when you brought them into the conversation.

You even bring up Purdues "fake" championship more than any Purdue fan so I feel completely fine saying you live in the past. I understand the current state of the program is frustrating for you so you talk about the tradition of the glory days. No one is holding a gun to your head and making you take every topic to that but you do and again that's fine because you've made that your thing. Also I'm not saying not to be proud of them. I just wouldn't brag about them if it were me because I didn't get the satisfaction of seeing them. The most recent one is the same age as the 3pt line isn't it?
I can talk about whatever I want to. This is an IU site. This is not a PU site. You are a guest. I'm not traveling to a PU site and acting like a dick, you are. You are the one who has stated you don't care about banners: then shut the hell up about them! Most other programs are proud of their tradition and talk about it: neither I nor anybody else has to subscribe to your beliefs. I've seen posters like you in the past, and I predict you aren't going to last too long around here.

Purdue has no tradition. Purdue has no championships, even in the recent past. You crap on those who have tradition when you don't have any: sour grapes, plain and simple. Painter would have been fired at IU a long time ago: good for you that he does it for you. It is what it is. I'll see you in the future with Nojel as your star player.
 
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I can talk about whatever I want to. This is an IU site. This is not a PU site. You are a guest. I'm not traveling to a PU site and acting like a dick, you are. You are the one who has stated you don't care about banners: then shut the hell up about them! Most other programs are proud of their tradition and talk about it: neither I nor anybody else has to subscribe to your beliefs. I've seen posters like you in the past, and I predict you aren't going to last too long around here.

Purdue has no tradition. Purdue has no championships. Painter would have been fired at IU a long time ago: good for you that he does it for you. It is what it is. I'll see you in the future with Nojel as your star player.
lol it's a site for discussing sports. This thread is about a Purdue player. Don't be so sensitive and if you don't want me to give my opinion on banners ranging 30 - 80 years ago then don't bring them up to me when I'm speaking with a completely different poster here about a completely different topic.

a conversation with you

Any non IU poster - any thought
You - banners
Any poster - so?
You - why are you on our site if you don't respect our banners
Any poster - whatever their reason
You - you're acting like a dick. Go away

Not everyone cares about IU's banners the way you think they should. Recruits from around the country for sure don't and any IU fan under the age of 40 is fooling themself if they think got the true satisfaction of winning a title.

Can't wait see if the response I get is any different than the last dozen.
 
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