Loss of civility leaves America in a pickle
- Thread starter sglowrider
- Start date
How were we any different?
What table are we talking about?
For this to be truly accurate, you're going to have to ignore the influencer aspect that is very real.
However, again, kids thinking they have all the answers isn't new to this generation. This is just more the older generations piling on the younger ones, which also isn't new.
To me that major issue I hear and see among kids is how easy it is to plan and be part of things, and the trouble that some of that can lead to. I would fully agree with the notion that the issue is it's more out in the open. Even if they aren't going to parties and doing the stupid stuff, a lot of it is ending up on social media.
I just don't get the sense the stupid crap kids today are doing is different than the stupid crap we did as kids. Other than alcohol, drugs and sex (nothing new there), I'd worry the most about online issues -- bullying, self-esteem, etc
I have friends who have given up trying to keep their daughter from drinking. Now they push being responsible with alcohol. They really aren't going to micromanage it. However, the girl has two jobs and started her own clothing line.
Hard to pull the 'kids today' act on that.
She's acting entitled, but there is more going on here than just some entitled daughter.
Again, nothing new here. The only thing new is it's captured on video. This isn't about today's youth. It's about today's technology and our access to other people's lives.
I will say that I believe the public in general behaves much worse than 20 years ago
Robert D. Putnam in his book Bowling Alone offers a theory about our society becoming disengaged from community involvement starting in about 1950.
Consistent with Putnam's theory, is it any wonder that once disengaged a person feels withdrawn and distrustful of society in general ? We begin to look at others from inside our bubble and label them while forgetting all the things we have in common.
In Bowling Alone Putnam cites how fewer people joined bowling leagues while at the same time he number of bowlers was actually increasing. In a league you get to know other people with with different occupations and backgrounds and realize they are just like yourself in many ways.
This Wiki link in part describes Bowling Alone as follows..
Putnam discussed ways in which Americans disengaged from community involvement, including decreased voter turnout, attendance at public meetings, service on committees, and work with political parties. Putnam also cited Americans' growing distrust in their government. Putnam accepted the possibility that this lack of trust could be attributed to "the long litany of political tragedies and scandals since the 1960s",[1] but believed that this explanation was limited when viewing it alongside other "trends in civic engagement of a wider sort".[1]
During my days as a precinct committee person for both parties on election day at the polls we committee persons from both parties chatted and shared war stories. It was like soldiers from both sides greeting each other once the war was declared over.
Does anyone doubt that even those of us who disagree and call each other names at the Water Cooler would get along if we ever met in person ?
Consistent with Putnam's theory, is it any wonder that once disengaged a person feels withdrawn and distrustful of society in general ? We begin to look at others from inside our bubble and label them while forgetting all the things we have in common.
In Bowling Alone Putnam cites how fewer people joined bowling leagues while at the same time he number of bowlers was actually increasing. In a league you get to know other people with with different occupations and backgrounds and realize they are just like yourself in many ways.
This Wiki link in part describes Bowling Alone as follows..
Putnam discussed ways in which Americans disengaged from community involvement, including decreased voter turnout, attendance at public meetings, service on committees, and work with political parties. Putnam also cited Americans' growing distrust in their government. Putnam accepted the possibility that this lack of trust could be attributed to "the long litany of political tragedies and scandals since the 1960s",[1] but believed that this explanation was limited when viewing it alongside other "trends in civic engagement of a wider sort".[1]
During my days as a precinct committee person for both parties on election day at the polls we committee persons from both parties chatted and shared war stories. It was like soldiers from both sides greeting each other once the war was declared over.
Does anyone doubt that even those of us who disagree and call each other names at the Water Cooler would get along if we ever met in person ?
My theory has been that the decline in community engagement, at the neighborhood level at least, started with the deck replacing the front porch as the place to sit outside after a tough day at work and to hang with the family on the weekend. Just think how easy it is to drive up to your house, raise your garage door using your in-car remote, then close it behind you without anyone even seeing you. Then, it's off to the deck with a beverage, and probably, a grill to cook dinner. It lends itself very easily to an anti-social lifestyle.
My neighborhood has been promoting "porching" this summer, and encourages people to host porch parties. The front porches on these old houses are huge, open, and provide a perfect place for socializing.
Last edited:
I agree. Lots of evidence of this. at the macro and micro levels.
If more people are bowling, just because they're not in a league doesn't mean they're less engaged. Maybe the book addresses this, but there is a step in middle that you didn't mention. Bowling with friends. Now, if the author is suggesting that bowling with friends doesn't increase engagement, that's a discussion, but I still wouldn't buy into the analogy. It could be more things to do, leading to fewer people wanting to lock in on a weekly commitment.
There is simply just more to do, even physical activities.
Social media has created a completely different landscape. Some good pieces but mostly bad for a developing brain. Yeah you can now easily stay in touch with childhood friends who move away but now kids have an incredibly wide net from which to seek validation.
My daughter has way too many friends. Or people she calls friends. Do you remember how many real friends you had in school. What, like five or six? Her validation net is so large that she never gets redirected until her mom or I do it. I think that’s a huge difference from when we were young. Our friends used to give us signals we were wrong and that we needed to fix it because it was far more difficult to jettison the “friends” who didn’t validate your every action.
I would agree I’m also getting to the “kids these days” age. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.
Completely agree about porches.
Like to add my theory about television taking over how we entertain ourselves. Instead of entertaining ourselves with conversations on the porch we are inside glued to the television.
Hate to say it, but some of our neighbors are glued to their cell phones at our neighborhood porch gatherings.
I think a biggie is the loss of ability to disagree and the loss of ability to tolerate those with whom we disagree. Dogma rules. We are driven by the need to prevail in politics, business, and elsewhere, which includes the need to eliminate opposing points of view instead of being driven by the need to compromise and get along.
I spent 50 years negotiating compromises and settlements. Now the buzz word for life is “don’t settle!” Moderation, compromise, and settlement have become bad words.
Last edited:
If everyone is in their backyards, it's just a different set of friends.
I've been in my condo since 1999. I'm in the back of the building with one of the ground level views in Carmel, unless you just hate being near a city street. When there is snow, it's awesome. I wouldn't change it, but I am pretty closed off from my neighbors when I'm on my patio. However, when my friends drive by, they typically honk if they see my patio door is open whether I'm on the patio or not. It's kind of the same thing, in terms of access to people driving by, but it's typically not people who then stop by.
When I was at my ex-GF's house, I'd be out back grilling, so would her neighbors. We often talked, and she would come out to talk to them as well. She definitely got in touch more with her neighbors when we were together because I would cook almost every night I was there for her kids and her.
Porching in downtown Carmel is a pretty cool thing. If that's what you're talking about. If I ever were to leave my condo (doubtful), there are only two other places in Carmel I'd want to live, and I'd have to have a quality front porch.
Porch Fest is one event that can bring me to Carmel- also my financial advisor, my ENT doc and Ortho Indy- but I prefer McCordsville for the moment
I’ve always had a really wide circle of friends and ran around in lots of different groups. I don’t know that we checked each other very much either. I think most of my friends enabled my bad behavior, but that’s probably why we were friends. I do think social media is doing all kinds of bad things for kids and developing brains.
I fully agree, and it can ever rewire adults brains too, depending if they silo where they get their information from.
Our group was 10-12 pretty easily, and with sports, I could probably tack on 5-6 more on the boys side, that we all would track on a weekly basis for 'plans'. I would stick to 10-12 by your definition, but one would have a house party, usually grouping in those other 5-6.
Usually the plan was just come over to my place because at worst, we could walk to 50% of our options or play basketball outside. Plus, one of the girls in the group lived in my neighborhood. So the girls would start there. The guys would start at my place. Then we'd decide...basketball or go out.
Of course back then, basketball meant no girls for part or all of the evening.
The social media part of it is totally legit. It's one thing that is truly different. Another thing that is truly different is gaming.
Of course gaming and the internet make it possible to seclude oneself too, which isn't great for anyone, let alone kids.
Fortville is cool.
The only thing that would cause me to leave Carmel would be lake front property, but at that, I'd likely choose Cicero on Morse. However, I enjoy not having a mortgage.
I think having a cookout with food and drink, everyone would get along.
I think that at least some of it is the result of the national press doing their job. On a micro basis let's look at Indiana football in the 1960s. I don't think the black players necessarily would have referred to those time does the good old days.
Permit me a war story. Years ago when I was bicycling on a week-long ride through the mountains, I was with a group climbing Wolf Creek Pass. One was a farmer whose doctor said get some exercise, he bought a bike and loved it, one was an orthopedic surgeon, one was a state court judge, and one was a chair-lift operator/ mechanic. We were all the same as we took turns leading our little peloton. We quickly became friends. Absent the bike, we would never have associated socially as we did on that trip. The point is, if we strip away all the social baggage and just mngle not knowing politics or status, we have a lot in common. I’m not smart enough to know how we get there.
Latest posts
-
Indiana basketball coaching hot board: Version 1.0- Latest: The one and only ACE
-
-
-
-
Can someone remind me why so many of us old timers joined Peeg’s back in 2001?
- Latest: GeorgeStrait IU