Lineup Talk

[Battimi]

Just listening to the various interviews and reports on the summer and early preseason, etc. and thinking about combinations and lineups...starting to feel like our best five might be:

Jackson-Davis
Thompson
Bates
Hood-Schifino
Johnson

That looks like a lot of talent on paper, but can they shoot at an efficient percentage and with enough volume from the 3-point line? I hope so. There is a lot of versatility there and great mix of experience of potential. This is probably our highest ceiling lineup.

If you sub in Geronimo, Galloway and Kopp you can probably pull anyone out and replace them with one of these guys and still have a really dynamic and viable lineup. Leal, Banks and Gunn might surprise us too, but I am not seeing them playing consistently meaningful minutes game in and game out. Banks would be the wildcard to crack the top 8 if he can outplay Kopp or Geronimo.

Duncomb and Reneau have both received high praise this off season, but they are really up against Trayce and Race for minutes. It is pretty hard to see one of them on the floor with both Race & Trayce and I have to think those guys are playing really big minutes in big games.

Always a fun excercise in the preseason. And never accurate.

 

[iubirdman]

I think Kopp starts at the 3, but Bates may play more minutes. I like the idea of someone off the bench who can provide some scoring punch, and that would be Bates, TG is not a scorer, and JG is still a HUGE unknown at the 3, he can be really good at the 4, but like you said we have Race and Trayce already there and Malik is going to play.

 

[kkott]

I think Kopp starts at the 3, but Bates may play more minutes. I like the idea of someone off the bench who can provide some scoring punch, and that would be Bates, TG is not a scorer, and JG is still a HUGE unknown at the 3, he can be really good at the 4, but like you said we have Race and Trayce already there and Malik is going to play.

Yeah, after how stubborn CMW was last year with the starting rotation, hard for me to see him sit Miller Kopp at least to start the season, especially when we need shooting. The toss up to me I think is Bates or JHS. Again, I think he'll defer to experience and go with Bates, but it won't surprise me to see JHS in the lineup for either Bates or Kopp at some point.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Yeah, after how stubborn CMW was last year with the starting rotation, hard for me to see him sit Miller Kopp at least to start the season, especially when we need shooting. The toss up to me I think is Bates or JHS. Again, I think he'll defer to experience and go with Bates, but it won't surprise me to see JHS in the lineup for either Bates or Kopp at some point.

I think Bates comes off the bench as a second unit scorer. If JHS and X are the starting backcourt, Bates off the bench could spell the 1,2, or 3 if at least one of them remain on the floor.

 

[BusdriverE]

I could see Kopp starting over Hood -Schifino and have Bates at the 2. I would like to see some different starting lineup depending on opponent, taller or quicker teams, that such things. Will be interesting to see how he subs this year and what personal he has on the floor especially with the upgrade in talent we have

 

[tru123dt]

I think that our most talented lineup would be:
Reneau
Jackson
Bates
Hood
Johnson

 

[fwiu]

Just listening to the various interviews and reports on the summer and early preseason, etc. and thinking about combinations and lineups...starting to feel like our best five might be:

Jackson-Davis
Thompson
Bates
Hood-Schifino
Johnson

That looks like a lot of talent on paper, but can they shoot at an efficient percentage and with enough volume from the 3-point line? I hope so. There is a lot of versatility there and great mix of experience of potential. This is probably our highest ceiling lineup.

If you sub in Geronimo, Galloway and Kopp you can probably pull anyone out and replace them with one of these guys and still have a really dynamic and viable lineup. Leal, Banks and Gunn might surprise us too, but I am not seeing them playing consistently meaningful minutes game in and game out. Banks would be the wildcard to crack the top 8 if he can outplay Kopp or Geronimo.

Duncomb and Reneau have both received high praise this off season, but they are really up against Trayce and Race for minutes. It is pretty hard to see one of them on the floor with both Race & Trayce and I have to think those guys are playing really big minutes in big games.

Always a fun excercise in the preseason. And never accurate.

Just curious if anyone thinks he mIght go to two platoons. We saw a lot of mass substitutions last year and it looks like our personnel have been upgraded?

 

[iubirdman]

Yeah, after how stubborn CMW was last year with the starting rotation, hard for me to see him sit Miller Kopp at least to start the season, especially when we need shooting. The toss up to me I think is Bates or JHS. Again, I think he'll defer to experience and go with Bates, but it won't surprise me to see JHS in the lineup for either Bates or Kopp at some point.

Not sure it was being stubborn, but in reality with the Galloway and Phinisee injuries who else COULD you have started and felt comfortable with? Not Bates, Not JG, Not Leal, certainly NOT Lander, so who would it have been?

 

[Middawg]

If it lights an ever bigger fire under Bates behind.....I'm all for Kopp taking his minutes early so that it pays off in the dog days of Feb and into post season time.

 

[rocketo]

I think that our most talented lineup would be:
Reneau
Jackson
Bates
Hood
Johnson

Not sure Malik has more talent than Race right now. More potential, likely.

 

[DCDAVID]

Just curious if anyone thinks he mIght go to two platoons. We saw a lot of mass substitutions last year and it looks like our personnel have been upgraded?

I hope not as I think the second 5, and the entire team in general, has a greater chance of success if we blend in substitutions. As an example, if JHS is as good of a distributor as described, we should ALWAYS have either X or JHS on the floor (unless it is a blowout).
And underneath play Malik and Duncan but put each of them in with either Race or TJD. I don’t get, especially at the college level vs NBA, the need for wholesale substitutions.

 

[YOTHN]

Not sure it was being stubborn, but in reality with the Galloway and Phinisee injuries who else COULD you have started and felt comfortable with? Not Bates, Not JG, Not Leal, certainly NOT Lander, so who would it have been?

Lol I like how you list the people who most likely would replace him, then say, "so who would it have been?" Give me JG and Bates, no questions asked.

 

[Cavanagh]

I think that our most talented lineup would be:
Reneau
Jackson
Bates
Hood
Johnson

Yep, If Malik can make Race come off the bench we are truly a final 4 team. Like Lightfoot last year. Race is a really good player, but I dunno if he is final 4 starting PF good. Has to make threes for that to be the case.

 

[Cavanagh]

Just curious if anyone thinks he mIght go to two platoons. We saw a lot of mass substitutions last year and it looks like our personnel have been upgraded?

He wants to, but that talent has to be there with little to no drop off. We shall see. We certainly have the talent on paper, paper doesn't mean shit in February tho.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Yep, If Malik can make Race come off the bench we are truly a final 4 team. Like Lightfoot last year. Race is a really good player, but I dunno if he is final 4 starting PF good. Has to make threes for that to be the case.

His threes are the most important.

 

[Cavanagh]

Malik looks B1G ready just like JHS. MV doesn't mess around.

From a physical stand point Malik screams the great big guys of UNC and MI state. We never get these guys.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

As if not more interesting than who starts is who finishes. Last Season, Woodson's 'guts' line-up - the guys on the Floor at the end of those games when it was tight - was usually Trayce, Race, Xavier, Rob and Trey. Recall Jordan getting the nod once or twice as well when Race was struggling. Whatever the Team sacrificed in offensive potential with Kopp & Stewart out, Woodson clearly felt that those five were IU's best/stingiest defensive option and the group he wanted on the Floor when it mattered most.

Obviously going to be a different mix this year, but expect Woodson's stragegy in similar situations to be the same - the most reliable defensive Players/unit will be the closers.

 

[iubud]

Just listening to the various interviews and reports on the summer and early preseason, etc. and thinking about combinations and lineups...starting to feel like our best five might be:

Jackson-Davis
Thompson
Bates
Hood-Schifino
Johnson

That looks like a lot of talent on paper, but can they shoot at an efficient percentage and with enough volume from the 3-point line? I hope so. There is a lot of versatility there and great mix of experience of potential. This is probably our highest ceiling lineup.

If you sub in Geronimo, Galloway and Kopp you can probably pull anyone out and replace them with one of these guys and still have a really dynamic and viable lineup. Leal, Banks and Gunn might surprise us too, but I am not seeing them playing consistently meaningful minutes game in and game out. Banks would be the wildcard to crack the top 8 if he can outplay Kopp or Geronimo.

Duncomb and Reneau have both received high praise this off season, but they are really up against Trayce and Race for minutes. It is pretty hard to see one of them on the floor with both Race & Trayce and I have to think those guys are playing really big minutes in big games.

Always a fun excercise in the preseason. And never accurate.

I'll be surprised if Kopp doesn't start. I could see JG getting more minutes overall than Kopp at the 3. JG's skills in rebounding and ability to clean up around the basket will be valuable.

We can easily play 3 guards with several combinations. Don't forget Galloway. There are a lot of players that can play. Hopefully they will value winning more than how many minutes they play.

 

[TR32]

Yeah, after how stubborn CMW was last year with the starting rotation, hard for me to see him sit Miller Kopp at least to start the season...

That's the thing. At this point no one knows if starts the same 5 all season or if last year was an anomaly.

 

[kkott]

I think that our most talented lineup would be:
Reneau
Jackson
Bates
Hood
Johnson

maybe, but you're counting on 2 freshmen, who have great pedigrees and reviews, but I don't think there's any way Race isn't starting. JHS is the one that I think could, but again, won't surprise me if he goes with Bates and Kopp and brings both freshmen off the bench, at least until he sees what he's got in them and what the returning guys bring. I think CMW likes the experience and will bring the freshmen along slowly. For Reneau to crack the starting lineup I think he's going to have to be lights out or there's an injury.

 

[kkott]

Not sure it was being stubborn, but in reality with the Galloway and Phinisee injuries who else COULD you have started and felt comfortable with? Not Bates, Not JG, Not Leal, certainly NOT Lander, so who would it have been?

Phinisee and Galloway didn't crack the starting lineup when healthy, nor did Bates. Personally I thought maybe take your lumps with Bates over PS, but that was just on promise. We'll see, it just gave me the feel that he's always going to defer to the more experienced guys and upperclassmen. We'll see this year, because we should have solid talent on the bench at all times.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

maybe, but you're counting on 2 freshmen, who have great pedigrees and reviews, but I don't think there's any way Race isn't starting. JHS is the one that I think could, but again, won't surprise me if he goes with Bates and Kopp and brings both freshmen off the bench, at least until he sees what he's got in them and what the returning guys bring. I think CMW likes the experience and will bring the freshmen along slowly. For Reneau to crack the starting lineup I think he's going to have to be lights out or there's an injury.

Agreed that Race would be the logical starter until if and when one of the frosh slide in. My worry is that Woody still loves Kopp

 

[kkott]

Agreed that Race would be the logical starter until if and when one of the frosh slide in. My worry is that Woody still loves Kopp

well, imo, if you are worried about shooting, Kopp is probably our best option. Take him out of the lineup and then who are you counting on to make a 3? We were a bad shooting team last year and in losing Parker Stewart and taking Kopp out of the starting lineup, you take away 2 of the 3 best shooters from a bad shooting team. I'm counting on Kopp and Bates to improve their shooting and hoping XJ can maintain his percentage, so we're likely not going to be a great shooting team again this year. What I am hoping for is better FT shooting across the board!

 

[Courtsensetwo]

well, imo, if you are worried about shooting, Kopp is probably our best option. Take him out of the lineup and then who are you counting on to make a 3? We were a bad shooting team last year and in losing Parker Stewart and taking Kopp out of the starting lineup, you take away 2 of the 3 best shooters from a bad shooting team. I'm counting on Kopp and Bates to improve their shooting and hoping XJ can maintain his percentage, so we're likely not going to be a great shooting team again this year. What I am hoping for is better FT shooting across the board!

I get it, but if we are counting on Kopp (circa last season) for our shooting...we are in deep doo doo.

 

[baileyiu]

I'll be surprised if Kopp doesn't start. I could see JG getting more minutes overall than Kopp at the 3. JG's skills in rebounding and ability to clean up around the basket will be valuable.

We can easily play 3 guards with several combinations. Don't forget Galloway. There are a lot of players that can play. Hopefully they will value winning more than how many minutes they play.

I don’t see JG getting many minutes at the 3. He doesn’t have the necessary skills (ball handling, perimeter defense, court awareness). In fact, I don’t see him getting more game minutes than last year - MR will get most of the minutes behind Race at the 4. JG could get time if we play a lot of small ball.

 

[kmathum]

Agreed that Race would be the logical starter until if and when one of the frosh slide in. My worry is that Woody still loves Kopp

if kopp plays as much as he did last year, we don't have the talent we think we have.

 

[.Gerdis]

Agreed that Race would be the logical starter until if and when one of the frosh slide in. My worry is that Woody still loves Kopp

Yes, I am not sure what coach is thinking? It’s clear from this forum who should be playing.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Yes, I am not sure what coach is thinking? It’s clear from this forum who should be playing.

After all......

 

[.Gerdis]

After all......

FYI, my reply to you was more of a general comment. There is certainly a consensus here on MK. The only contrarian seems to be his coach.

 

[jaygyure]

I do think Kopp will start but he will have a very short leash. If he's not hitting his shots or finding a way to get open for good shots, he will be out. I'd imagine starting lineup of X, JHS, Kopp, Race and Trace. Major minutes off bench for Bates, Reneau, and Geronimo. Significant minutes for Galloway and Duncomb. Mop up time for Leal, Gunn and Banks.

 

[Eurocyldon]

Just curious if anyone thinks he mIght go to two platoons. We saw a lot of mass substitutions last year and it looks like our personnel have been upgraded?

Great question. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Last season CMW learned he did not have the horses for it. Too many leads were quickly lost after making whole sale substitutions early in the season. My guess is even with the upgrade in talent he won't be going back to that well.

You're really talking about four positions because Trayce will get his 32 min per game. If it turns out Malik and Logan can provide quality minutes along with Race, it's possible TJD drops down to 30 min per game but it's hard to imagine him coming off the floor outside of foul trouble or the occasional breather.

 

[.Gerdis]

Great question. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Last season CMW learned he did not have the horses for it. Too many leads were quickly lost after making whole sale substitutions early in the season. My guess is even with the upgrade in talent he won't be going back to that well.

You're really talking about four positions because Trayce will get his 32 min per game. If it turns out Malik and Logan can provide quality minutes along with Race, it's possible TJD drops down to 30 min per game but it's hard to imagine him coming off the floor outside of foul trouble or the occasional breather.

A couple of thoughts

-the rotation did tighten up once conference season began. It’s one thing to platoon versus Kokomo State, and another to do it versus PU. (And are you doing it early as an experiment?)

-this season has some early bigger games, we didn’t have that last season.

- does the hype meet the reality? For example, Duncomb. I believe he played around 5 total BT minutes last season. It would be a massive jump to play even 5 minutes a game.

 

[hookyIU1990]

FYI, my reply to you was more of a general comment. There is certainly a consensus here on MK. The only contrarian seems to be his coach.

It was because of his D. He knew what he was going to get from Kopp. He had a higher defensive floor at the 3 than any of the other options.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I do think Kopp will start but he will have a very short leash. If he's not hitting his shots or finding a way to get open for good shots, he will be out. I'd imagine starting lineup of X, JHS, Kopp, Race and Trace. Major minutes off bench for Bates, Reneau, and Geronimo. Significant minutes for Galloway and Duncomb. Mop up time for Leal, Gunn and Banks.

You do realize the reason Kopp played so much is because he was good defensively, was where he was supposed to be and wasn’t out of position. Woody hates stupid mistakes and Kopp doesn’t make many. If anyone thinks it’s a given JG will take minutes from him is going to be upset. Don’t be shocked if Kopp plays a lot.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

It was because of his D. He knew what he was going to get from Kopp. He had a higher defensive floor at the 3 than any of the other options.

He doesn’t make dumb mistakes either.

 

[.Gerdis]

It was because of his D. He knew what he was going to get from Kopp. He had a higher defensive floor at the 3 than any of the other options.

Yep, I agree. Defense, and I suspect “trust”.

he sees him a lot more than we do, and I suspect he sees things that people on here do not see or (possibly) value.

 

[Brewskie]

Just listening to the various interviews and reports on the summer and early preseason, etc. and thinking about combinations and lineups...starting to feel like our best five might be:

Jackson-Davis
Thompson
Bates
Hood-Schifino
Johnson

That looks like a lot of talent on paper, but can they shoot at an efficient percentage and with enough volume from the 3-point line? I hope so. There is a lot of versatility there and great mix of experience of potential. This is probably our highest ceiling lineup.

If you sub in Geronimo, Galloway and Kopp you can probably pull anyone out and replace them with one of these guys and still have a really dynamic and viable lineup. Leal, Banks and Gunn might surprise us too, but I am not seeing them playing consistently meaningful minutes game in and game out. Banks would be the wildcard to crack the top 8 if he can outplay Kopp or Geronimo.

Duncomb and Reneau have both received high praise this off season, but they are really up against Trayce and Race for minutes. It is pretty hard to see one of them on the floor with both Race & Trayce and I have to think those guys are playing really big minutes in big games.

Always a fun excercise in the preseason. And never accurate.

I think to start the season Kopp will probably start at the 3 but might not finish the season as a starter. If Bates is the warrior Cav says and has improved, lets roll! We've got talent, experience, depth and a coach who is a leader of young men. Hopefully improved outside shooting as well. Excited for this year and, for the first time in a long time, the future.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Yep, I agree. Defense, and I suspect “trust”.

he sees him a lot more than we do, and I suspect he sees things that people on here do not see or (possibly) value.

In one of the many interviews, he talks about that trust in Kopp's D. There's too many floating around for me to go find it, but maybe someone else will and post it.

From one of the stories on here:

"Well, he's very coachable," Woodson said. "In the big league, we call him a true pro, because he listens and he tries to do all the things that's asked of him."

While his shooting ability wasn't up to the level he or Indiana expected last season, he made his mark on the defensive end as the season wore on. It was a need for Indiana down the stretch after seeing multiple wings struggle defending the ball for the majority of the season.

"I thought his defense last year was phenomenal," Woodson said. "I mean, from where he started, when people thought he couldn't really defend, he was one of our best perimeter defenders last year, which was kind of nice to see."

TheHoosier - Shooting is his calling card, but Miller Kopp seeks to be two-way player

Miller Kopp looks to be a legit two-way player for Indiana and have the impact a lot of people expected last year.

indiana.rivals.com

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I find it hilarious that people are already saying Malik is more talented then Race. Nobody has seen Malik in a college game, while there were times when Race was our best player last year. I mean, Race was a 11 and 8 guy last year. Let's pump the brakes until we see Malik against legit competition and if he can do it consistently.

I would also point out that people shouldn't discount Logan. People forget he's a year young for his class, plus i heard a interview where someone said Logan was basically sick all last year, so he couldn't put on weight, which is important for a freshman big man.

 

[Jssanto]

Yeah, after how stubborn CMW was last year with the starting rotation, hard for me to see him sit Miller Kopp at least to start the season, especially when we need shooting. The toss up to me I think is Bates or JHS. Again, I think he'll defer to experience and go with Bates, but it won't surprise me to see JHS in the lineup for either Bates or Kopp at some point.

I have often wondered about the why of sticking with Parker and Miller as starters.