Sorry, first time creating a poll. Thought it would be an interesting question. I honestly saw Archie, Mack, and Holtmann as equals. Honestly think I would lean Holtmann. He would recruit better here than Ohio St and they play hard and smart. We will see what happens in a few years
Knowing what you know now, what would you have done 2 years ago
- Thread starter BigNutsIUFan
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Knowing what I know now, I would have shut down this forum.
I would have placed a $50,000 bet that a number 1 seed would lose for the first time to a 16 seed and then come back the next year and win it all.
My only complaint is we should have conducted a thorough search with a small committee. It seemed like it was all Fred.
Not sure what a small committee wouldve accomplished. My honest opinion, you were looking at Stevens or Donovan, then next tier of Archie, Mack, or Holtmann. After that, its a crapshoot.
I always wanted Holtmann, only because he had better connections with Indiana coaches. Luckily Archie was smart enough to hire Schilling. Archie should have gone to OSU and Holtmann should have come here.
Gregg Marshall.
But I have not had anything damning against Archie and I am hopeful for year 3 to get things going.
But I have not had anything damning against Archie and I am hopeful for year 3 to get things going.
everything I've heard or read suggests Holtmann had no interest in the IU job, and at the time Glass filled it with Miller, the OSU position wasn't open.
and I still don't think there was ever a snowball's chance in a very warm place that Glass was going to consider someone like Marshall.
so if not Miller, I guess IU possibly could've ended up with Mack.
and I still don't think there was ever a snowball's chance in a very warm place that Glass was going to consider someone like Marshall.
so if not Miller, I guess IU possibly could've ended up with Mack.
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I wouldn't have wasted so much time watching this basketball team. It is two years of bitter disappointment that I will never get back. I have been broken since the Nebraska game. After 40 years, Apathy has set in, unfortunately.
Hiring Archie 2 years ago is not the problem...
Keeping Archie is the problem...
Archie has failed the IU basketball program.
Ive said prior that at the time, Mack, Holtman, Marshall and Archie were the hot names for the next big coaches...and even talked w UK and UL fans during our search and said if Cal or Pitino left, what hire would you be confident in or excited about, outside of Donovan or Stevens, and they all mentioned those same names.
Archie wasnt a bad hire, and it wasnt a mistake to hire him, even with hindsight.
However, Archie has grossly underperformed in almost every category I can think of. For optics, I understand the need to give him year 3. People lose their jobs everyday...I dont wish Archie to fail, because I love IU basketball, but Archie has been a failure to date.
Keeping Archie is the problem...
Archie has failed the IU basketball program.
Ive said prior that at the time, Mack, Holtman, Marshall and Archie were the hot names for the next big coaches...and even talked w UK and UL fans during our search and said if Cal or Pitino left, what hire would you be confident in or excited about, outside of Donovan or Stevens, and they all mentioned those same names.
Archie wasnt a bad hire, and it wasnt a mistake to hire him, even with hindsight.
However, Archie has grossly underperformed in almost every category I can think of. For optics, I understand the need to give him year 3. People lose their jobs everyday...I dont wish Archie to fail, because I love IU basketball, but Archie has been a failure to date.
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And that's exactly why you have a committee, to get past any one person's biases. There are lots of other coaches out there, so you cast a wide net and wade through the options. Marshall, Mike White, Beard, Musselman, etc... The diamond in the rough is called that for a reason: they aren't the obvious choice. That's how RMK and Coach K got their shot. Roy turned UNC down at least once if not twice, before accepting, so you just never know with timing. I think CAM was a solid hire, and maybe we'd have ended up there anyway, but it felt to me like he was targeted at the possible expense of others, not selected over them.
I thought Donovan was 100% locked up, done deal. Back up the brinks truck because that’s IU style. They are a basketball school. A basketball blue blood.
Do you know for a fact that RMK was chosen by a committee?
My admitted sketchy memory recalls that it was the AD that chose him.
Do what I've been doing. Laugh at some posters that don't understand the situation or the challenges any coach would have.
And he was NOT the first choice ...
Imagine what we would have said, had the Internet existed at the time, after his first year of 17-8 and no tournament appearance -- much less not winning a title that year.
F no, I was 7. I'm just saying he wasn't the obvious choice so I think a well-chosen small committee with a process would be more likely to uncover that diamond in the rough. I'm talking the best way to hire for IU in 2017, not 1973.
Most committees suck. If an AD can't do a thorough search, he should be fired or never hired in the first place. He probably had to present his case to some people in hiring CAM anyways. That recommendation should be accepted unless there is a serious red flag in the candidate.
so missing the tourney two years in a row is success in your mind? strange
Really like Mack. Got to talk with him when my daughter was at Xavier, very personable guy. Love his style of play.
IMHO he wasn't going anywhere in 2017. For one, X made it to the Elite 8; we hired Archie the same day. Additionally, he had a veteran team coming back which ended up getting a #1 seed. Much easier to leave when that team was graduating. Even then, the move to Louisville was still difficult (Christy being from there helped). Mack is from Cincinnati and took a lot of pride in being the coach there.
Both Mack and Holtmann inherited better rosters than Miller did. And both roster were healthy. Let's see where we're at 1-2 years from now.
No.
But a guy is not allowed to build his program? None of the injuries of this year or losing your 3 best players from the year before he was hired doesn't matter?
What specifically should have Archie done differently this part season? Give examples of how in his coaching he failed.
RMK was brought in by the AD to clean up some dirt that was - even in those days - about to get us in NCAA trouble. Our admin knew RMK would clean it up but DID NOT know that he'd win and certainly not at the rate that he did win. He actually did clean it up and got a lot of haters in the bargain who remained haters for decades there after and still had influence with the admin when the end came.
And also because of the lack of discipline with the players that were on the rooster.
People who really know basketball wouldn't agree with him. People who really know basketball see the situation for what it is instead of responding like spoiled children who can't have what they think they are entitled to have right now.
People who know basketball (like RMK) know Archie can coach and are willing to be patient enough to let that play out. I'm sorry, but those on here screaming for Archie's head, or even those on here suggesting he's underachieved, don't know basketball.
Even if everything you type is true, twenty02, response was childish and pointless. If you're wrong about Archie will drop the you don't really know basketball statements?
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I'm not an Archie hater, but here's some things I think Archie should have done differently:
--He should not have re-recruited Moore. It was definitely something I wondered about at the time. Other people on here did as well. If, having recruited Moore, he decided he could not contribute anything by 2019, he should have told him so and urged him to move on after last year. Why waste the kid's year?
--He should not have recruited Damezi. Pork Chop didn't offer him. There was a reason why. His recruitment was another thing I wondered about at the time.
--Instead, he should have continued to recruit Henry hard.
--The approach he has utilized with Green & Smith hasn't worked. He shouldn't have wasted 2 years on those guys and let their lackadaisical attitude affect the team, as it apparently has.
--He should not have continued to play Fitzner as much as he did when it was clear he couldn't play at the BT level. Unless he had determined that both Forrester and Moore had no future with the program, he should have played them more. If he determined that Forrester had no future with the program, he erred in recruiting him in the first place.
I agree with most of what you said but a lot of it is in hindsight.
Development of a player is as much on him as it is on the coaching staff (See Vic). I would bet that Archie thought that Moore and Forrester would have been farther along in their development than they are. Obviously some of that is on him and his perceived inability to maximize their talents and/or not to be able to identify their work ethic.
In Fitzner's case, he was obviously brought in as a shooter. Which we sorely needed. Yes, the physicality of the BT proved too much but surely he showed flashes in practice to earn the PT that he got.
This is a very good post, and contains very fair and valid criticisms...and all without a single "He has failed us!!!! We are a laughingstock!!!"
17-8 is pretty good for first year. Only 32 teams went to the tourney and I think you had to actually win your conference. Then he made it to final four the 2nd year. Also, freshmen couldnt play varsity so he was entirely relying on somebody elses players. If we brought in a coach and he made final four in year 2 heck we might put up a statue of them.
I'd still hire Archie but also insist he put all the players in a safety bubble wearing a safety helmet while receiving 24 hour care from a team of medical specialists.
Committees are the biggest waste of time imaginable. If you have to form a committee to make decisions, you have no leader. It's just a way to avoid taking responsibility when things go wrong.
Committees are the biggest waste of time imaginable. If you have to form a committee to make decisions, you have no leader. It's just a way to avoid taking responsibility when things go wrong.
Archie was one of a half dozen possibilities 2 years ago. When he was announced, I was supported of it. My choices ahead of him were not realistic so I feel we made a good pick.
What I would do different is to buy marijuana stock and should have invested in a certain company I am now working with in Canada.
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