Kent State analysis

[kkott]

I want smith and Loyer in addition to JHS and Renau.
Colvin and Newton

OK, gotcha. So we shoulda canned the IN recruit we had in the class:Gunn, to take another PG much lower rated in Smith, when we had Phinisee, XJ and Lander on the roster, JHS committed and pursuing Cupps. And, then you want more duplication of players in Colvin and Newton?

See, it gets a little trickier when you actually start digging in to the specifics versus just lobbing general complaints like "we need our Coach, who's not even been here 2 years, and those being relatively down ones for IN recruits, to recruit IN better!". Mike Woodson is an IN and IU legend who seems to present himself well with recruits and their families. He's going to do just fine recruiting IN as he goes. Maybe one of the least of any realistic worries.

 

[bsmitty08]

OK, gotcha. So we shoulda canned the IN recruit we had in the class:Gunn, to take another PG much lower rated in Smith, when we had Phinisee, XJ and Lander on the roster, JHS committed and pursuing Cupps. And, then you want more duplication of players in Colvin and Newton?

See, it gets a little trickier when you actually start digging in to the specifics versus just lobbing general complaints like "we need our Coach, who's not even been here 2 years, and those being relatively down ones for IN recruits, to recruit IN better!". Mike Woodson is an IN and IU legend who seems to present himself well with recruits and their families. He's going to do just fine recruiting IN as he goes. Maybe one of the least of any realistic worries.

Agree to disagree

 

[kkott]

Agree to disagree

Of course you do, because then you have to be specific about what you want to see or you think should have happened, and would have to admit it's not that simple, versus just whining: "we need to recruit IN better".

 

[bsmitty08]

Of course you do, because then you have to be specific about what you want to see or you think should have happened, and would have to admit it's not that simple, versus just whining: "we need to recruit IN better".

Ok all is perfect in Bloomington

 

[kkott]

Ok all is perfect in Bloomington

Never said that, I want you to be specific about what you think THIS coach should have done differently. You wanted him to recruit Smith with RP, KL and XJ on the roster and JHS coming in... and while we were recruitng Cupps in the next class, right? That's what you said. And you want Loyer along with JHS and Reanu, so that would mean getting rid of either Gunn (IN guy, remember?) or Banks (although realistically; I know you don't like to deal with reality; Loyer was a strong PU lean and probably always going there, so maybe Banks back in... or Gunn: who do you pick?). Would probably be getting rid of Gunn with the overlap at that position with all the guards listed, but he's our one IN recruit, which is what you want. But, I guess we need to get rid of 2 since you want Smith and Loyer, so bye to Gunn and Banks. Then you want Newton and Colvin, so bye to Cupps, who's position we desperately need right now and is similar to Smith (personally I think will be better, but we'll see) in style, or that fills us up on guards and no room for the bigs or another portal shooter we probably need. I'm glad you're not making recruiting decisions!

 

[bsmitty08]

Never said that, I want you to be specific about what you think THIS coach should have done differently. You wanted him to recruit Smith with RP, KL and XJ on the roster and JHS coming in... and while we were recruitng Cupps in the next class, right? That's what you said. And you want Loyer along with JHS and Reanu, so that would mean getting rid of either Gunn (IN guy, remember?) or Banks (although realistically; I know you don't like to deal with reality; Loyer was a strong PU lean and probably always going there, so maybe Banks back in... or Gunn: who do you pick?). Would probably be getting rid of Gunn with the overlap at that position with all the guards listed, but he's our one IN recruit, which is what you want. But, I guess we need to get rid of 2 since you want Smith and Loyer, so bye to Gunn and Banks. Then you want Newton and Colvin, so bye to Cupps, who's position we desperately need right now and is similar to Smith (personally I think will be better, but we'll see) in style, or that fills us up on guards and no room for the bigs or another portal shooter we probably need. I'm glad you're not making recruiting decisions!

I’m using these guys as an example of recruiting moving forward. 23 class we have two recruits and no Indiana kids. It may be a lean class but has Booker, Burton, Colvin that are really good. 24 and 25 class is really strong. Iu has taken guys like with high curling and low floor and hope to strike gold vs recruiting to a system.

We will see if Woody is here long enough to establish a program or system.

 

[kkott]

I’m using these guys as an example of recruiting moving forward. 23 class we have two recruits and no Indiana kids. It may be a lean class but has Booker, Burton, Colvin that are really good. 24 and 25 class is really strong. Iu has taken guys like with high curling and low floor and hope to strike gold vs recruiting to a system.

We will see if Woody is here long enough to establish a program or system.

So, again, in both cases, you want lower rated kids in Colvin and Burton than what we have in Newton and Cupps? Not huge differences, and similar positions, but I'd just like to finally see you be specific about what you want. Personally, I like what I hear on both the kids we have, but I don't follow recruiting a ton and we always get a rosy view painted, so you may be right. You would prefer to have Burton and Colvin over Newton and Cupps, correct?

CMW tried on Booker; who seemed locked on MSU from early on. We didn't get him, with CMW having to play catchup, but neither did your hero, CMP.

PS, I'm really excited about Cupps. Like what I've seen, heard and read about him. Don't know beans about Burton but I'll say I want Cupps over Burton and Smith. Smith's had a great year, but I think he's not going to seem as great without a 7'4" goon to toss it to. Of course, he might be back next year!

 

[bsmitty08]

So, again, in both cases, you want lower rated kids in Colvin and Burton than what we have in Newton and Cupps? Not huge differences, and similar positions, but I'd just like to finally see you be specific about what you want. Personally, I like what I hear on both the kids we have, but I don't follow recruiting a ton and we always get a rosy view painted, so you may be right. You would prefer to have Burton and Colvin over Newton and Cupps, correct?

CMW tried on Booker; who seemed locked on MSU from early on. We didn't get him, with CMW having to play catchup, but neither did your hero, CMP.

PS, I'm really excited about Cupps. Like what I've seen, heard and read about him. Don't know beans about Burton but I'll say I want Cupps over Burton and Smith. Smith's had a great year, but I think he's not going to seem as great without a 7'4" goon to toss it to. Of course, he might be back next year!

I dont really care about ratings after the top 20. My point is, you are more likely to have a kid play their ass off for IU when they are from the state. Not always but pretty common. See Michael Lewis, Tom Coverdale,

Rexruit your studs like TJD, Yogi, Zeller and surround them with guys like a Hulls. Cupps I’m fine with because I think he is a 4 year player that will be steady and is from the Midwest. Newton coming from Georgia, idk if he will pan out and be here 4 years .

 

[kkott]

I dont really care about ratings after the top 20. My point is, you are more likely to have a kid play their ass off for IU when they are from the state. Not always but pretty common. See Michael Lewis, Tom Coverdale,

Rexruit your studs like TJD, Yogi, Zeller and surround them with guys like a Hulls. Cupps I’m fine with because I think he is a 4 year player that will be steady and is from the Midwest. Newton coming from Georgia, idk if he will pan out and be here 4 years .

more general whining. You're not fine with Cupps, you said you wanted Burton; so you want both? Maybe you'd have that chance with Brey leaving. Frankly I'm hoping for a ball handler that can shoot via the portal but with at least 2 years of eligibility, because I think we could use some experience next year and that becomes a must if XJ can't come back, but I think he'll be allowed to. But, I'm actually trying to think about reality, class and role composition and not just blindly whining and complaining.

Wasn't Grant Gelon from IN?

 

[bsmitty08]

more general whining. You're not fine with Cupps, you said you wanted Burton; so you want both? Maybe you'd have that chance with Brey leaving. Frankly I'm hoping for a ball handler that can shoot via the portal but with at least 2 years of eligibility, because I think we could use some experience next year and that becomes a must if XJ can't come back, but I think he'll be allowed to. But, I'm actually trying to think about reality, class and role composition and not just blindly whining and complaining.

Wasn't Grant Gelon from IN?

We are discussing this. You asked a question and I answered. That’s whining?
Also yes Gelon was from Indiana. So?

 

[kkott]

We are discussing this. You asked a question and I answered. That’s whining?
Also yes Gelon was from Indiana. So?

Look at your response; who did you mention? Not current prospects, guys from 10-30 years ago, that spanned multiple classes (ie. not a realistic type class, again your cherry picking names across many years... naturally we can't really recruit a class like that). And, you don't want guys just from IN (like Gelon or Leal), they have to be the really good players from IN and you jumped classes because that can't possibly be recruited in a single class or two. Again, you're not being realistic, just whining.

 

[bsmitty08]

Look at your response; who did you mention? Not current prospects, guys from 10-30 years ago, that spanned multiple classes (ie. not a realistic type class, again your cherry picking names across many years... naturally we can't really recruit a class like that). And, you don't want guys just from IN (like Gelon or Leal), they have to be the really good players from IN and you jumped classes because that can't possibly be recruited in a single class or two. Again, you're not being realistic, just whining.

Nope not whining dude. I can’t believe you dont think we should focus on recruiting the state.
9/10 all time leading scorers and season are Indiana kids
guyton is the exception

 

[ams66]

Look at your response; who did you mention? Not current prospects, guys from 10-30 years ago, that spanned multiple classes (ie. not a realistic type class, again your cherry picking names across many years... naturally we can't really recruit a class like that). And, you don't want guys just from IN (like Gelon or Leal), they have to be the really good players from IN and you jumped classes because that can't possibly be recruited in a single class or two. Again, you're not being realistic, just whining.

Gelon and Leal aren’t really comparable. Leal was Mr Basketball and had offers from Stanford and other quality programs. Gelon had I think one other mid-major offer he was one of Crean’s spaz recruits.

 

[bsmitty08]

Gelon and Leal aren’t really comparable. Leal was Mr Basketball and had offers from Stanford and other quality programs. Gelon had I think one other mid-major offer he was one of Crean’s spaz recruits.

Gelon turned into a great shooter at an NAIA bethel. Like stupid numbers from 3.

Hutton: Crown Point graduate Grant Gelon lights it up from 3-point range for Bethel

Crown Point graduate Grant Gelon, who is averaging 19.4 points for Bethel, made 68.4% of his 3-pointers in December.

www.chicagotribune.com

 

[ams66]

Gelon turned into a great shooter at an NAIA bethel. Like stupid numbers from 3.

Well good for him. Never had anything against him.

 

[kkott]

Gelon and Leal aren’t really comparable. Leal was Mr Basketball and had offers from Stanford and other quality programs. Gelon had I think one other mid-major offer he was one of Crean’s spaz recruits.

No, I'm not saying they are. His criteria is "recruit kids from IN", which I'm all for, 1) if they are good enough, and 2) if we can get them. With CMW just arriving he doesn't have the luxury of an in-state pipeline and contacts yet, and this past year and next year's class weren't loaded in IN, beyond Booker, who he tried with, as he is with Bidunga, but both are/were uphill battles. I picked those guys specifically to show, not every IN recruit is a good one. Look at his posts, they aren't realistic. He says he wants Smith, and Loyer, and JHS, and Reanu, and Colvin and Newton. These aren't based in reality. At the time, no room for Smith when we had XJ, RP and KL on the roster and JHS coming in. We signed Cupps assuming XJ would be gone, but there wasn't a spot for Smith. Loyer was always a strong PU lean. So, these aren't realistic. Then, the examples he uses are names that span 30 years, again not realistic. Mike Woodson is a well-known name in IN and IU and his name alone will open many doors in IN. He's gonna take advantage of that, whenever he can, if he thinks there's a fit as exemplified by his going after Booker, Bidunga, Sisley and Harrelson. Does that make it seem he's ignoring IN?

 

[kkott]

Nope not whining dude. I can’t believe you dont think we should focus on recruiting the state.
9/10 all time leading scorers and season are Indiana kids
guyton is the exception

I can’t believe you dont think we should focus on recruiting the state

It should not be a focus. We need to focus on getting the players our coach feels will most help our team. Realistically, we are in IN so, 1) there will be plenty of home grown talent, and 2) we'll have a natural advantage with most of those kids, but no way am I sweating a class like this year's just because there are no IN kids in it. Now, because IN is a hotbed of talent, it's smart to run camps and coaches clinics, etc... to maintain/improve relations within the state, but it's not a basis for evaluating our recruits.

 

[bsmitty08]

No, I'm not saying they are. His criteria is "recruit kids from IN", which I'm all for, 1) if they are good enough, and 2) if we can get them. With CMW just arriving he doesn't have the luxury of an in-state pipeline and contacts yet, and this past year and next year's class weren't loaded in IN, beyond Booker, who he tried with, as he is with Bidunga, but both are/were uphill battles. I picked those guys specifically to show, not every IN recruit is a good one. Look at his posts, they aren't realistic. He says he wants Smith, and Loyer, and JHS, and Reanu, and Colvin and Newton. These aren't based in reality. At the time, no room for Smith when we had XJ, RP and KL on the roster and JHS coming in. We signed Cupps assuming XJ would be gone, but there wasn't a spot for Smith. Loyer was always a strong PU lean. So, these aren't realistic. Then, the examples he uses are names that span 30 years, again not realistic. Mike Woodson is a well-known name in IN and IU and his name alone will op

It should not be a focus. We need to focus on getting the players our coach feels will most help our team. Realistically, we are in IN so, 1) there will be plenty of home grown talent, and 2) we'll have a natural advantage with most of those kid

I dont know how you can possibly say recruiting the state shouldnt be a focus.

 

[CriticArisen]

With Omier out Nijel Pack carried Miami. Miami’s interior defense looked downright confused at times. IU just needs to play good D against Pack and another comfortable win. Huge night for TJD and Sweet 16!

Does anyone know if he is related to Wayne Pack that was a guard with McGinnis and Downing at Indy Washington?

I was off by 1 on the margin of victory versus Kent State and apologize for that.