He made a terrible decision. But at the time I remember 90% of the IU fan base loving it. Those were full on cult days.
Keep this in mind about FG.
- Thread starter fkfootball
- Start date
The coaches are an easy target but......let’s get the actual target in the sights here: Fred Glass
How many appearances at the plate with strikeout after strikeout is the guy allowed?
I feel like the guy gets a big pass because “he’s an alum” and “he really loves IU.”
Great. I think we can all agree that we root for native Hoosiers to succeed but at the end of the day, it’s about making good decisions. He’s had multiple decisions backfire. How many more strikeouts for Fred?
If he was on ignore you wouldn't have seen his post . . .
1. Not firing Crean after year 3
2. Not firing Crean after year 6
3. Not firing Crean after year 7
4. Signing Wilson to extension and then firing him
5. The hiring process (or lack of one) of Allen
6. Hiring Archie
Holtman, Marshall, and Mack are 3 off the top of my head.
Well, three of those are Crean related and IMO, go back to the unwarranted extension.
So what on 4. He gave Wilson an extension thinking that a problem had been addressed. That problem reappeared and he fired him, IMO for cause.
I have no evidence but I believe that Glass saw first hand what kind of coach he had in TA, imagined what he could do as head coach, maybe even spoke to some of his connections in regards to TA and acted. If Allen works out does FG get any credit from you and others?
Is 6 a joke? Archie was ranked as the number one hire in college basketball by anyone I read or heard. He might not work out but that is on Archie, not Glass.
How do you not get Holtman? Idc what his priorities were. You make that guy an offer he couldn’t turn down.
Glass also saw Crean first hand and thought he was good coach. If Allen works out Glass should get all the credit.
Archie coached at Dayton and won less than 70% of his games. He’s not some golden boy or great hire. If he doesn’t work out It’s on Glass.
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Once again, Archie was considered the #1 hire in all of college basketball by anyone ranking coaches that I saw. He is even endorsed by RMK.
Hires that look great don't work out all the time. It has even happened to me when I did the hiring. But sometimes the person that looked great can't get the job done. That doesn't mean that the person that did the hiring screwed up. Sometimes the fit just isn't right.
Who is held accountable when a coach fails? Just the coach? Why not the person who hired the coach?
I guess it depends on several factors. If the hire is widely thought of as the best hire in the country then yes, it is on the coach.
If Allen doesn't work out then I would say that is on Glass.
We’re not going to agree that the person who hires the coaches isn’t accountable for the coaches because journalist/tv pundits say he was a great hire. You could have saved us time by just saying you’re not going to hold him accountable.
Where did I say that I was not going to hold anyone accountable?
For me, Archie gets two more years unless next year goes south or there are rules violations.
In the case of Glass, if Allen doesn't work out it is all on him. If Archie doesn't work out, then he gets one more chance of getting the right man to elevate IU.
Glass has made many coaching hires and most seem like they are working. Baseball, Softball, Womens Bball all seem like they have the programs going in the right direction.
I'm not sure Holtman belongs in that rarified air. He may be good, but that sort of devotion is usually reserved for the absolute can't miss candidates.
Ah, yes, the infallibility of hindsight. Let's take a trip through time to check out how passionate you were about obtaining Holtmann during Crean's final season.
These show you had doubts about his coaching ability.
In this one you mention him as a possible coach but you even say you don't care if it's him or someone else, just not Crean. Miller qualifies as "someone else."
Here you recognize that Holtmann would be better than Crean but that really isn't saying much.
So only now you are saying that Holtmann was can't miss type of coach. You weren't as fervent in the past and didn't think that highly of him back in 2016 and early 2017. At the time the best you could say about him was that he would be an upgrade from Crean while also doubting how well he'd do in the B1G. Hindsight is grand, yeah?
I agree with you that if CTA does not work out it is all on Fred Glass. He made a unilateral decision without consulting any advisers let alone not listening to them. his rationale was very shortsighted. He was concerned about a second rate bowl game and stabilizing the next year’s recruiting class.
However from a Machiavelian perspective I say bravo Fred Glass on this one. First of all you cannot build a successful football program at a school like Indiana with a coach who views his job as being transitional. It was very clear the coach Hep had no plans of going anywhere after IU. It was very clear the coach Mallory had no plans of going anywhere else. They both came to Bloomington and said this is where I want to be and this is the program that I want to be successful. Coach Tom Allen is also that kind a guy. To build the football program you need to recruit at least 50 guys if not more who are willing to buy it on that and plan on sticking around for at least four if not five years.
What other prospective coaches out there would be on that short list of people who can and want to build a program at Indiana university that turns around the most troubled Big 10 football program in history?
Coach Allen knows defense and he admits that he has a lot to learn about the offense. He started by bringing in an offense of coordinator that he gave full control of the offense. And he has done the same thing again but is stepping back from the defense so they can learn more about the offense. What more can anybody ask? The guy is making all the right moves. And that is born out by the uptick in recruiting that everybody is in agreement on. And yet there are fans out there who are going to say all year that if Indiana does not make a crappy second or third tier bowl game this year we need to start all over again. Don’t get me wrong the ball game means at least a six and six record and I’ll take that. But I will be more impressed if the Hoosiers are competitive late in the fourth quarter with Michigan and Ohio State and Penn State.
Basketball is completely different. You can turn a program around, at least for a little while, by recruiting two or three McDonalds All Americans. Billy Donovan caught lightning in a bottle. He brought in a few guys who were great players and liked each other. And then when they won the national championship they said let’s stick around for another year and do it again. That ain’t going to happen again. And a few years later after his team had a losing record and didn’t make the NCAA or NIT tournament again he said I’m out of here and I am going to the pros.
Does anybody here think that Archie Miller turned to his wife and family and said Bloomington is home and we are never going to leave? Of course not! In part because basketball success is fleeting. And it is going to be more so after they get rid of the one and dones. Hoosier fans want to fire Archie Miller so they can hire Brad Stevens or Billy Donovan. They want Archie Miller fired so they can bring in one of two people who expressed absolutely no interest in the job. They want to bring in an NBA coach that would have to reload his team every season by flying around the country and sitting in 17-year-olds living rooms with their parents. LOL!
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Holtmann and Archie you could probably swap - no real advantage there either way. Both young and similar resumes.
Marshall not a bad coach, but his wife is not worth the trouble.
Would have loved to had Mack. Got to talk with him a few times while my daughter was a student at Xavier. But Spring 2017 wasn't a good time for him to move - he had everyone back for 2018 that was a #1 seed and he's a Cincinnati guy, took a lot of pride in coaching X. His wife being from Louisville had a lot to do with him taking the UofL job; otherwise, I'm not so sure he isn't still in Cincinnati. He came close to staying as it was.
Fred is a slightly above average AD overall. imo.
If we broaden the view and look past just basketball and football, overall he's maintained the status quo.
Fred was hired late in 2008. Looking at the Director's Club rankings before and after:
'06---38
'07---50
'08---39
'09---55
'10---43
'11---28
'12---38
'13---32
'14---36
'15---61
'16---41
'17---47
'18---52
I started with 2009-10 as it was his first full-time year.....
Given that he makes a big deal of all the sports being one large operation, it's fair to look at his overall effectiveness. Mixed bag there....In his first 5 years avg. 35th....last 4 50th.......Only 1 NC that I can recall....soccer.
Considering his effect on basketball & football only.....definitely takes him down a big notch. The ill-advised Wilson hire, ignoring all red flags, with the resulting termination. The ridiculous Crean extension. Archie's troubles......
So, in terms of overall results, below average, for sure. However, he has done an above-average job in moving facility improvements along, imo. Programs like baseball, softball, volleyball, wrestling are posed for success. The basket all & football facility improvements were well-done. So, I give him a B- overall.
He’s been a disaster for football and basketball.
In his 11 years the football program has been to 2 bowl games and have zero winning seasons. His basketball program has made the tournament 4 times in 11 seasons, never making it past the Sweet 16.
That’s as bad as any Power 5 AD in America. He doesn’t even deserve a D for those results.
I totally agree with everything in your post except --- we don't or should I say, I don't know that he didn't consult any advisers. I find it hard to believe he didn't pick up the phone and call some football people he knows and ask about TA. Yes, he saw him coach for a year and obviously he thought enough of him that he offered him the HC position but to make that offer without some feedback strikes me as very unlikely.
Maybe you have information to the contrary.
Minneman, your post without question, proves "fkfootball" is a troll, and a retread troll at that.
I can assure you that there is nobody who has less of an inside track about Indiana athletics than I do.
What I recollect is that Tom Allen was recalled from a recruiting trip on a Wednesday night, Wilson was fired at 8 AM on Thursday morning and Tom Allen was hired as head coach on Thursday morning at 10 AM. I am pretty certain about recalling that Tom Allen had no idea that Wilson was going to be fired. And I can’t imagine that any advisor would say that walking down the hall to hire a coach Alan would be a good idea without a formal search effort.
I think the adage sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good fits pretty well here.
If you go to the 35 minute mark of the attached video regarding Coach Allen’s introduction it is pretty evident that hiring coach Alan was a complete seat of the pants decision. Again I am not criticizing the outcome. I think he got the right guy in the end or in this case the beginning .
I agree the optics does not look good but outside of speculation no one that I know of has any information on the real doings behind the curtain.
For all I know, FG was on the phone from Wednesday evening to Thursday morning to football people he trusts.
