Jim Boeheim Criticizes Big Ten Due to Lack of Tournament Success

[iu2win]

I've always had respect for Coach Boeheim going back to the championship game Smart won for IU. However, I lost a great deal of respect after reading the article in SI today. In short, Jim B is complaining about the Big Ten's lack of tournament success in recent years when compared to the ACC (in terms of the number of NCAA tournament bids per conference). My quick Google search reveals the following results for Syracuse in head-to-head games with Big Ten foes:

2017 - 2018 def Maryland by 2
2018 - 2019 def Ohis St. by 10
2019 - 2020 loss Penn St. by 21
Loss Iowa by 14
2020 - 2021 loss Rutgers by 10
2021 - 2022 def IU by 2 in 2OT

Syracuse has not exactly dominated the Big Ten in regular season play. To infer otherwise based on NCAA tournament results is bs. I did not check the number of games (above) Syracuse played at home vs away; nevertheless, Coach B is out of line on this one. Seems he is concerned his mediocre teams may be on the verge of sitting out when he should be coaching them up to be certain they make it in. I expect the same IU. Go Hoosiers !!!

 

[.Gerdis]

Last 20 years:
Syracuse 1 NCAA championship
big Ten ZERO


The B10 needs to win one soon.

I’m not a fan of his, but with the number of bids we get each year, we need to win it all.

 

[kkott]

I've always had respect for Coach Boeheim going back to the championship game Smart won for IU. However, I lost a great deal of respect after reading the article in SI today. In short, Jim B is complaining about the Big Ten's lack of tournament success in recent years when compared to the ACC (in terms of the number of NCAA tournament bids per conference). My quick Google search reveals the following results for Syracuse in head-to-head games with Big Ten foes:

2017 - 2018 def Maryland by 2
2018 - 2019 def Ohis St. by 10
2019 - 2020 loss Penn St. by 21
Loss Iowa by 14
2020 - 2021 loss Rutgers by 10
2021 - 2022 def IU by 2 in 2OT

Syracuse has not exactly dominated the Big Ten in regular season play. To infer otherwise based on NCAA tournament results is bs. I did not check the number of games (above) Syracuse played at home vs away; nevertheless, Coach B is out of line on this one. Seems he is concerned his mediocre teams may be on the verge of sitting out when he should be coaching them up to be certain they make it in. I expect the same IU. Go Hoosiers !!!

I haven't read it, and frankly I don't really like Boeheim, but just based on what you said, he's not wrong. It's got to piss off other coaches with the # of bids the B10 gets. Don't forget, this is his profession and livelihood. I hate it, but it's a perfectly valid criticism.

 

[asindc]

Whether a conference wins the NC or not has nothing to do with which of its teams deserved a bid to the tournament.

 

[Radio Zero]

Big Ten is a conference of losers, football AND basketball.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I haven't read it, and frankly I don't really like Boeheim, but just based on what you said, he's not wrong. It's got to piss off other coaches with the # of bids the B10 gets. Don't forget, this is his profession and livelihood. I hate it, but it's a perfectly valid criticism.

Not really....Just b/c a said team wins the title, doesn't mean the conference they play in is the best. SEC is the best conference is CFB this year----And by a lot. Now if say OSU or Clemson were to win the title, it doesn't make the B10 or the ACC the better conference.

Look at it like this... Since 2000 the B10 has placed 6 DIFFERENT teams in the National title game.

Indiana(2002)
Illinois(2005)
Michigan(2x)---(2013 and 2018)
MSU(2x's)---(2000 and 2009)
Wisconsin(2015)
Ohio State(2007)

Multiple years with multiple teams in the FF:

2000- Michigan State and Wisconsin
2005---Illinois and Michigan State
2015---Michigan State and Wisconsin


Since 2000 the B10 has placed a team in 13 FF's.

Problem isn't underachieving----its finishing the job. Big 10 has handled its business just fine in the NCAAT----just hasn't had many Elite teams, and when they did, those teams happened to bump into another very good, elite team:

2005: Illinois vs UNC
2007: OSU vs Florida
2009: MSU vs UNC
2015: Wisky vs Duke

Is the SEC a better, more consistent, better achieving basketball conference b/c they have 3 titles, to the B10's 1? Not IMO. Those 3 titles were won by 2 schools: UK/Florida. With the Gators going back to back. Since UF's last title, only ONE SEC team has played for the title----Kentucky. In that same span, B10 has played in 5 national title games, by FOUR different teams: Michigan, MSU, OSU and Wisconsin.

Boeheim is an idiot......

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

People can say what they want about the Big Ten coming up short in March, but his gripe seems to be that, because of the Big Ten’s inflated reputation as a deep league, we are seemingly taking bids away from other teams that deserve it…

… and I’m not sure that’s true. The Big Ten didn’t even get a 2-seed or above last year, it isn’t really that “overrated” … it simply is what it is - a deep league with a range of 3-seed to 12-seed teams, and the Committee thinks we have more deserving candidates for the 8-seed type spots than leagues like the ACC. And that’s not really that outlandish, lol.

 

[Indianaftw]

Jeezuz...I lost all respect for Boeheim early when Smart made the shot and they asked why didn't you call time out? His reply...I never second guess myself. What a dumbass. They had a shot if he would called time.

 

[rocketo]

I've always had respect for Coach Boeheim going back to the championship game Smart won for IU. However, I lost a great deal of respect after reading the article in SI today. In short, Jim B is complaining about the Big Ten's lack of tournament success in recent years when compared to the ACC (in terms of the number of NCAA tournament bids per conference). My quick Google search reveals the following results for Syracuse in head-to-head games with Big Ten foes:

2017 - 2018 def Maryland by 2
2018 - 2019 def Ohis St. by 10
2019 - 2020 loss Penn St. by 21
Loss Iowa by 14
2020 - 2021 loss Rutgers by 10
2021 - 2022 def IU by 2 in 2OT

Syracuse has not exactly dominated the Big Ten in regular season play. To infer otherwise based on NCAA tournament results is bs. I did not check the number of games (above) Syracuse played at home vs away; nevertheless, Coach B is out of line on this one. Seems he is concerned his mediocre teams may be on the verge of sitting out when he should be coaching them up to be certain they make it in. I expect the same IU. Go Hoosiers !!!

Well, if somebody in the B1G would win a phucking NC, that’d be nice (preferably us)

 

[iu2win]

Does anyone else think league officiating plays into this at all? The Big Ten has a reputation as a very physical league and officials seem to allow physical play to a large degree vs the tournament when it can be a detriment (from an officiating standpoint).

 

[kkott]

Not really....Just b/c a said team wins the title, doesn't mean the conference they play in is the best. SEC is the best conference is CFB this year----And by a lot. Now if say OSU or Clemson were to win the title, it doesn't make the B10 or the ACC the better conference.

Look at it like this... Since 2000 the B10 has placed 6 DIFFERENT teams in the National title game.

Indiana(2002)
Illinois(2005)
Michigan(2x)---(2013 and 2018)
MSU(2x's)---(2000 and 2009)
Wisconsin(2015)
Ohio State(2007)

Multiple years with multiple teams in the FF:

2000- Michigan State and Wisconsin
2005---Illinois and Michigan State
2015---Michigan State and Wisconsin


Since 2000 the B10 has placed a team in 13 FF's.

Problem isn't underachieving----its finishing the job. Big 10 has handled its business just fine in the NCAAT----just hasn't had many Elite teams, and when they did, those teams happened to bump into another very good, elite team:

2005: Illinois vs UNC
2007: OSU vs Florida
2009: MSU vs UNC
2015: Wisky vs Duke

Is the SEC a better, more consistent, better achieving basketball conference b/c they have 3 titles, to the B10's 1? Not IMO. Those 3 titles were won by 2 schools: UK/Florida. With the Gators going back to back. Since UF's last title, only ONE SEC team has played for the title----Kentucky. In that same span, B10 has played in 5 national title games, by FOUR different teams: Michigan, MSU, OSU and Wisconsin.

Boeheim is an idiot......

Great analysis, but of course, the whole idea is to WIN a NC! That's like the salesperson who said, "Yeah, but look how many appointments I've had!"

 

[8Stars5Banners]

Minus the freshman phenom Melo... Boeheim would also never have a NC... He can GFH

 

[asindc]

Great analysis, but of course, the whole idea is to WIN a NC! That's like the salesperson who said, "Yeah, but look how many appointments I've had!"

Of course, but Boeheim’s argument is that since the B1G hasn’t won a NC in quite awhile, Syracuse deserves a bid over Rutgers, for instance. That is not how the committee evaluates teams. Conference performance in previous tournaments have no bearing on teams in the present. Individual teams are evaluated against each other, with conference affiliation being irrelevant. Boeheim no doubt knows this, but is trying to lobby using a lazy media talking point.

 

[kkott]

Of course, but Boeheim’s argument is that since the B1G hasn’t won a NC in quite awhile, Syracuse deserves a bid over Rutgers, for instance. That is not how the committee evaluates teams. Conference performance in previous tournaments have no bearing on teams in the present. Individual teams are evaluated against each other, with conference affiliation being irrelevant. Boeheim no doubt knows this, but is trying to lobby using a lazy media talking point.

well, I didn't hear it, but I would guess his overall point is that the Big10 is consistently overrated, relative to tourney performance, including actually winning it all. And, while IUfanBorden makes a compelling argument, performances like last year, coupled with not winning it all, does help that opinion persist and I don't think it's unfair. The B10, until this year, has always fared really highly in top 20 rankings and tourney bids, and one would expect some of those rankings would result in a NC over the span of 20+ years. I think if you polled national writers and analysts, their general opinion would be the B10 often gets the benefit of the doubt in bball historically speaking.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

C'mon, Boeheim has every right to be judgmental. It's not like he had to vacate 101 victories over many seasons for various violations (including grade 'enhancements' for star players); vacated victories which conveniently started right AFTER the 2003 NCAA 'ship. Or that the local YMCA paid some of his players and was caught giving free memberships to Cuse staff and paying rent for one of his assistants.

Oh wait....never mind.

He's still butthurt over 87. Hey Jim, if DC, Triche and Seikaly could make free throws, there would be no Keith Smart shot to fret about, and you wouldn't be so grumpy.

my 2 cents.

 

[asindc]

well, I didn't hear it, but I would guess his overall point is that the Big10 is consistently overrated, relative to tourney performance, including actually winning it all. And, while IUfanBorden makes a compelling argument, performances like last year, coupled with not winning it all, does help that opinion persist and I don't think it's unfair. The B10, until this year, has always fared really highly in top 20 rankings and tourney bids, and one would expect some of those rankings would result in a NC over the span of 20+ years. I think if you polled national writers and analysts, their general opinion would be the B10 often gets the benefit of the doubt in bball historically speaking.

Here is an article quoting Boeheim: https://nypost.com/2022/10/15/jim-boeheim-rips-big-ten-they-sucked-compared-to-acc/

He is specifically referring to last season, not historically. I don’t know if this or a similar article is what the initial poster is referring to, but Boeheim’s quoted comments in the linked article only speak to last year’s performance. I agree with Boeheim in that respect, and I doubt anyone connected to the B1G would argue that particular point.

 

[Harry Hondo]

Big Ten is a conference of losers, football AND basketball.

But they win when it comes to making money.

 

[kkott]

Here is an article quoting Boeheim: https://nypost.com/2022/10/15/jim-boeheim-rips-big-ten-they-sucked-compared-to-acc/

He is specifically referring to last season, not historically. I don’t know if this or a similar article is what the initial poster is referring to, but Boeheim’s quoted comments in the linked article only speak to last year’s performance. I agree with Boeheim in that respect, and I doubt anyone connected to the B1G would argue that particular point.

Yep, absolutely no argument about last year, relating to the B10, we were a disappointment in the tourney.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Cuse was 16-17 last year. Not sure why he's spending energy worrying about how the B1G did in the tourney last year. Didn't affect his team either way. If Cuse had finished 19-12 and was one of the first four out, while IU got in, then I get it. But this just comes off to me as grumpy old guy whining about an issue that didn't have any impact on his team.

 

[IUNorth]

Without fully digging into the actual record...it sure feels like he's got a valid point.

The B10 does often get the most NCAA at large bids. And it often does feel like the B10 underperforms versus how many teams they get in. Certainly not always the case. There have been years where we have multiple Sweet 16 teams, and even multiple Final Four teams. But by and large, many of the tournaments have felt like last year.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Great analysis, but of course, the whole idea is to WIN a NC! That's like the salesperson who said, "Yeah, but look how many appointments I've had!"

If those appointments are selling, well then..................

Yes the goal is to win the Natty----but thats a team thing---not a conference thing. When I look at best conference's, the LAST thing I look for is if they won a title. What in your opinion is the better conference:

A:
6 bids
4 teams to 2nd round
1 team to SW 16
1 team to the E8
National title winners

B:

6 bids
6 teams to 2nd round
4 teams to SW 16
2 teams to Elite 8
1 team FF

Of course there are lot of tangibles that go into this, but-----When a conference is consistently sending multiple teams to the FF, and playing for a national title, compared to a conference that in its ENTIRE history, has only had TWO teams play for a title: SEC-----Kentucky/Florida.

To me conference's that constantly have multiple teams, year in and year out, who make deep runs, is a better gauge of how good a conference, opposed to "A" team winning a national title.

 

[johnboiler123]

C'mon, Boeheim has every right to be judgmental. It's not like he had to vacate 101 victories over many seasons for various violations (including grade 'enhancements' for star players); vacated victories which conveniently started right AFTER the 2003 NCAA 'ship. Or that the local YMCA paid some of his players and was caught giving free memberships to Cuse staff and paying rent for one of his assistants.

Oh wait....never mind.

He's still butthurt over 87. Hey Jim, if DC, Triche and Seikaly could make free throws, there would be no Keith Smart shot to fret about, and you wouldn't be so grumpy.

my 2 cents.

Didn't he kill a guy too?

 

[ericrossiu]

Boeheim is an asshole. A true bitter bitch

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Didn't he kill a guy too?

With a trident.

 

[kkott]

If those appointments are selling, well then..................

Yes the goal is to win the Natty----but thats a team thing---not a conference thing. When I look at best conference's, the LAST thing I look for is if they won a title. What in your opinion is the better conference:

A:
6 bids
4 teams to 2nd round
1 team to SW 16
1 team to the E8
National title winners

B:

6 bids
6 teams to 2nd round
4 teams to SW 16
2 teams to Elite 8
1 team FF

Of course there are lot of tangibles that go into this, but-----When a conference is consistently sending multiple teams to the FF, and playing for a national title, compared to a conference that in its ENTIRE history, has only had TWO teams play for a title: SEC-----Kentucky/Florida.

To me conference's that constantly have multiple teams, year in and year out, who make deep runs, is a better gauge of how good a conference, opposed to "A" team winning a national title.

It's funny to hear IU folks, who lord our 5 titles over PU guys, then have to make the argument NC's don't really matter as much. All I'm saying is that if we want the title of a great basketball conference, or one of the top 2, then we should have won a NC over a 20+ year span, when the ACC has won 8 with 5 different programs. Arguing we get a ton of bids, or lots of F4 and title game appearances to me only strengthens that fact. I can buy it's an anomaly, but it's going to hang over our head as a conference until we do win one. And, being a B10 guy living in ACC land, that matters to me!

 

[8Stars5Banners]

It's funny to hear IU folks, who lord our 5 titles over PU guys, then have to make the argument NC's don't really matter as much. All I'm saying is that if we want the title of a great basketball conference, or one of the top 2, then we should have won a NC over a 20+ year span, when the ACC has won 8 with 5 different programs. Arguing we get a ton of bids, or lots of F4 and title game appearances to me only strengthens that fact. I can buy it's an anomaly, but it's going to hang over our head as a conference until we do win one. And, being a B10 guy living in ACC land, that matters to me!

Thanks for reminding me. I haven’t Lorded over my PU friends in awhile. It’s time

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

It's funny to hear IU folks, who lord our 5 titles over PU guys, then have to make the argument NC's don't really matter as much. All I'm saying is that if we want the title of a great basketball conference, or one of the top 2, then we should have won a NC over a 20+ year span, when the ACC has won 8 with 5 different programs. Arguing we get a ton of bids, or lots of F4 and title game appearances to me only strengthens that fact. I can buy it's an anomaly, but it's going to hang over our head as a conference until we do win one. And, being a B10 guy living in ACC land, that matters to me!

I wholeheartedly agree, the B1G needs to hang a fresh banner or two, to even up this argument.

But Boeheim is not the one from the ACC who should be leading the argument on their end. Notice you never heard coach K or Roy bitchin' about the B1G getting 8 or 9 teams in the tourney? This topic really didn't get started because of B1G tourney bids last year...hell the tourney's been over for almost 7 months. This thread is a result of Boeheim being Boeheim. He's always been a grumpy prick. Comes with spending winters in Syracuse.

 

[asindc]

It's funny to hear IU folks, who lord our 5 titles over PU guys, then have to make the argument NC's don't really matter as much. All I'm saying is that if we want the title of a great basketball conference, or one of the top 2, then we should have won a NC over a 20+ year span, when the ACC has won 8 with 5 different programs. Arguing we get a ton of bids, or lots of F4 and title game appearances to me only strengthens that fact. I can buy it's an anomaly, but it's going to hang over our head as a conference until we do win one. And, being a B10 guy living in ACC land, that matters to me!

No one in this thread has made that argument.

 

[kkott]

No one in this thread has made that argument.

Ummm, I'd say justifying our tourney performance over the last 20 years with appearances, FF #s, etc... is making it indirectly, if not directly. The ACC has 8 during that period. Yes, it's a bad look for the B10. If we want to think of ourselves at that level (top bball conferences) we have to come through with a NC every few years.

 

[kkott]

Thanks for reminding me. I haven’t Lorded over my PU friends in awhile. It’s time

it used to be a lot easier than it is now!

 

[Champs1976]

It's funny to hear IU folks, who lord our 5 titles over PU guys, then have to make the argument NC's don't really matter as much. All I'm saying is that if we want the title of a great basketball conference, or one of the top 2, then we should have won a NC over a 20+ year span, when the ACC has won 8 with 5 different programs. Arguing we get a ton of bids, or lots of F4 and title game appearances to me only strengthens that fact. I can buy it's an anomaly, but it's going to hang over our head as a conference until we do win one. And, being a B10 guy living in ACC land, that matters to me!

You're right. I also place less value on the number of teams advancing by round in the tournament compared to actually winning. No way to get around it, the ACC has performed much better. And while Boeheim is right about what he said, if he said it because he thinks that teams like Syracuse last year deserve more benefit of the doubt and the ACC to get more bids, he knows as well as anybody the formula the selection committee uses to invite at large teams and seed teams. Not really sure what he hoped to accomplish with the criticism. If the B1G gets nine teams in the tournament and a good percentage advance beyond the first game, that in and of itself justifies the invites.

The bigger question is why a B1G team can't win the championship. I think in the end it is the style of play the B1G fosters and rewards through the officiating of games. B1G teams get to the tournament and are successful in the regular season in conference because most of them play very physical games. Quickness and floor spread is less succesful in the B1G, but usually much more successful in the tournament. That's the elephant in the room for B1G fans.

 

[kkott]

You're right. I also place less value on the number of teams advancing by round in the tournament compared to actually winning. No way to get around it, the ACC has performed much better. And while Boeheim is right about what he said, if he said it because he thinks that teams like Syracuse last year deserve more benefit of the doubt and the ACC to get more bids, he knows as well as anybody the formula the selection committee uses to invite at large teams and seed teams. Not really sure what he hoped to accomplish with the criticism. If the B1G gets nine teams in the tournament and a good percentage advance beyond the first game, that in and of itself justifies the invites.

The bigger question is why a B1G team can't win the championship. I think in the end it is the style of play the B1G fosters and rewards through the officiating of games. B1G teams get to the tournament and are successful in the regular season in conference because most of them play very physical games. Quickness and floor spread is less succesful in the B1G, but usually much more successful in the tournament. That's the elephant in the room for B1G fans.

Agreed, and that's what I hope our coaches and admins are talking about and working on!

 

[kkott]

I wholeheartedly agree, the B1G needs to hang a fresh banner or two, to even up this argument.

But Boeheim is not the one from the ACC who should be leading the argument on their end. Notice you never heard coach K or Roy bitchin' about the B1G getting 8 or 9 teams in the tourney? This topic really didn't get started because of B1G tourney bids last year...hell the tourney's been over for almost 7 months. This thread is a result of Boeheim being Boeheim. He's always been a grumpy prick. Comes with spending winters in Syracuse.

I agree totally that Boeheim is a whiny, grumpy prick. It's why I said in my earlier post I've never liked him. But, it also doesn't mean he's wrong. And, I think that view is held by lots of coaches, and bball folks, which is why getting a NC as a conference is a bigger deal than many in this thread are making it seem. How about our Hoosiers just step up and do it this year and knock down a couple of dry spells?

 

[asindc]

There are two main points being discussed here:

1) Past conference performance, particularly underperforming seeding, and it’s bearing on how many teams from that conference gets bids going forward. If this is Boeheim’s point, it’s like U. of So. Carolina’s football coach complaining about the number of NYD bowls bids the Pac 12 receives.

2) Past conference performance, particularly lack of NCs, and it’s bearing on conference prestige. If this is Boeheim’s point, then point taken, but if this is his point, then why not mention PAC-12 as well?

 

[kkott]

There are two main points being discussed here:

1) Past conference performance, particularly underperforming seeding, and it’s bearing on how many teams from that conference gets bids going forward. If this is Boeheim’s point, it’s like U. of So. Carolina’s football coach complaining about the number of NYD bowls bids the Pac 12 receives.

2) Past conference performance, particularly lack of NCs, and it’s bearing on conference prestige. If this is Boeheim’s point, then point taken, but if this is his point, then why not mention PAC-12 as well?

I think it's more #1... he's laying the groundwork to try and argue the ACC should get the benefit of the doubt he feels the B10 must be getting. But, if it's #2, no one sees the PAC 12 as anything approaching an equal to the ACC, while the B10 is often considered or said to be that, and I'm sure it pisses him off!

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Boeheim should have no problem making the tourney this year, if his team can just be respectable in the almighty ACC. His pre-conf schedule makes me think Cuse hired Tom Crean as their AD. Monmouth, Colgate, Cornell, Lehigh, Northeastern, Bryant...all in that stupid Dome.......that's a real buzz saw schedule.

Winning cures all ills, Jim.

 

[steelyvan]

Boeheim should have no problem making the tourney this year, if his team can just be respectable in the almighty ACC. His pre-conf schedule makes me think Cuse hired Tom Crean as their AD. Monmouth, Colgate, Cornell, Lehigh, Northeastern, Bryant...all in that stupid Dome.......that's a real buzz saw schedule.

Winning cures all ills, Jim.

Keep an eye on the Monmouth game.

 

[The one and only ACE]

I've always had respect for Coach Boeheim going back to the championship game Smart won for IU. However, I lost a great deal of respect after reading the article in SI today. In short, Jim B is complaining about the Big Ten's lack of tournament success in recent years when compared to the ACC (in terms of the number of NCAA tournament bids per conference). My quick Google search reveals the following results for Syracuse in head-to-head games with Big Ten foes:

2017 - 2018 def Maryland by 2
2018 - 2019 def Ohis St. by 10
2019 - 2020 loss Penn St. by 21
Loss Iowa by 14
2020 - 2021 loss Rutgers by 10
2021 - 2022 def IU by 2 in 2OT

Syracuse has not exactly dominated the Big Ten in regular season play. To infer otherwise based on NCAA tournament results is bs. I did not check the number of games (above) Syracuse played at home vs away; nevertheless, Coach B is out of line on this one. Seems he is concerned his mediocre teams may be on the verge of sitting out when he should be coaching them up to be certain they make it in. I expect the same IU. Go Hoosiers !!!

Sorry, but I don’t know of anybody that cares what he thinks

 

[8Stars5Banners]

it used to be a lot easier than it is now!

Nah,…. As long as PUke never wins a natty I’ll keep ragging

 

[steelyvan]

Boeheim once again distinguishes himself following their loss to Bryant.
Bitch slapping fight during the game helped.
But also ome bad blood with the Bryant coach going back to the covid season.