We are going to lose a lot this off-season. Recruiting momentum only lasts so long. If we miss the tournament next year, the recruiting momentum will cease (it kinda already has).
Jakai Newton called Dakich a clown
- Thread starter Beorik
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Exactly where did I compare the Duke program to IU?
I made the point that “IU is not even in the same galaxy as Duke.”
Reading comprehension is key.
And you confirmed my point that some posters were giddy with IU being in a play-in game.
I don’t believe that many Duke fans would be giddy about a play-in game, regardless of the time missing the tournament. You do, fine.
I most certainly realize the sorry state of our program. That was my point.
Please share a post of mine you consider either toxic or clueless. I’m truly interested. And again, have I ever even interacted with you ? I certainly am clueless as to what you’re talking about. You appear to be the one name calling here.
Hopefully he will be enough of a leader to not break curfew before a critical game IU needs to win. He should have been a leader in Evanston.
You will have to educate me here. What recruits are we "losing this off season" and how has recruiting momentum "kinda already ceased".
Neither of those things seem obvious.
We all would like to get back to INDIANA but the reality of the situation is that any part of that legacy that was left over when Knight left has been squandered over the past 20 years.
It sucks, but we are at the point in the program where a first year coach getting to the NCAA tournament is a win. He did something that 2 coaches over the past 5 years could not do. Getting beat like we did by St. Mary's sucked. I still believe from watching the game that 5 games in about a week's time and the travel SNAFU Tuesday night into Wednesday morning (both things that I do not believe Notre Dame had to deal with, had something to do with the game. We were hanging with them most of the first half and you could just see the legs go out around the 5 minute mark (give or take) of the half. Things went downhill quick and the gas left the team. We aren't running Navy SEALS onto the court. Fatigue impacts the mental as much as the physical. DO I like what happened? No. It is what it is though. No amount of bitching on here about what things were like when Knight was here are going to change the fact that the past 20 years have not been good to this program and that comparison is now basically apples to oranges.
We aren't Duke. We are nowhere close to that anymore. To get back to that place, having a first year coach make the tournament is about a good of start as any. At least we don't have that "it takes 4 years" nonsensical conversation this time around.
He doesn’t get suspended we don’t make the tourney. X played like a top 5 PG in the country from that point on.
X is the reason we made the tourney. X will be all big ten next year. You don’t like it? Stop watching.
bald head makes him look like a real life clown. Shiny son of a bitch in some of his taped podcasts.
I wasn’t referring to type of program, I was strictly referring to on the court performance. Duke is a top 5 program. Will IU ever be a top 5 program again? That is up for debate. Even if you believe that IU will someday go to another final four, we still may not ever become a top 5 program again.
in between us and Duke are programs like Iowa*. No IU fan is going to say that our ultimate goal is to have a program on the level of an Iowa, but it would be a massive improvement from where we are.
*I am not saying that in the history of basketball Iowa is a better program than IU, as IU historically has accomplished more than Iowa ever will. But, currently as measured by recent performance (say the past 10 years, they are a much better program).
Maybe an interesting take on the suspension motivating X. If so, you could argue that’s not good because he’s 22. I get he transferred from an unstable situation. Maybe one he created?
One thing thing I’ve noticed about IU blogger culture is its always sunshine and roses. They are never critical of the players because they will lose access. That’s a fact.
Even though I know your theory is spin, I do concede that the fans booing X and maybe the suspension could have motivated him.
He has proven to have some consistency in his behavior and is a absolutely a front runner. Loves the good times that’s for sure.
He is an emotional kid and appears to be a bit immature under pressure which at 22 is not a sin. That said...something clicked with him and it was about the time they were busted for curfew,
If I thought IU players sucked I wouldn't pay them. Fatjohns needs not be critical of players because he could lose access. You think if I said X was selfish then offered him a NIL deal to talk to me he wouldn't take it?
Xavier isn't selfish. X is a dog. KG is my favorite player ever. I love shit talkers, I love emotion. X is everything I love in a basketball player.
Woodson obviously got to him which is a positive sign. He even said that he was more critical by far with him than any other player. Makes sense for a point guard. X has a really high ceiling, hope he hits it.
I wish the IU community would just ignore Dakich. I can’t imagine Woody is very excited about his daughter being involved. All of this just feeds into his Jerry Springer drama. It’s ridiculous.
I get what you're diving at and mostly agree. Iowa is low ceiling kind of good, when they are good. Even in your last 10 year reference, IU's got a couple of outright conference titles and hit the sweet 16 in the post season. This BTT was the first thing that Iowa has won in a bit. In the last 5 years though, the Hawks have gained some consistency.
Big Ten titles last 10 years:
Iowa-0
Indiana-2
Sweet 16 appearances last 10 tournaments:
Iowa-0
Indiana-3.
Who has the better program?
What about comparing the floors? We have 3 sweet 16s and 2 big ten titles in the last 10 years? It sure doesn’t feel that way. It feels like we have been consistently finishing in the bottom 3rd of the conference and missing the tourney. 2013 seems like decades ago to me.
I put together a list and can't remember if I put it up here or not. Anyway, IU hasn't cracked the AP Top 20 now in something like 105 weeks (polls). It's the 15th longest streak among the 6 traditional Power conference schools. We broke the school record of 63 straight weeks without breaking into the Top 25 on the last poll release of the season.
Looking at the last 10 years, those BIG titles and Sweet 16's are going to start rolling off and here shortly we won't have anything to claim in a decade, if we don't start winning.
I've kinda gone ocd on AP Poll history, because I thought it was amazing that, even through some lean times, no IU recruit had ever come to Bloomington, stayed for 4 years and failed to crack the AP Top 10 at least once. I mean that is a great stat! Then Al Durham messed it up and became the first.
Incredibly, Al goes to a Providence team, that only won 13 games a year ago, and redeems himself in a big way. I'm damned near obsessed with Trayce, Race and Rob coming back and rectifying their careers by going out on a high note next year.
The only guys to ever stay through their Junior years and not crack the Top 10 were Joby Wright, Rick Ford, Pritch, Roth and Verdell. All of those guys got it done as seniors. I just hate to see these guys go out like this. From a Poll perspective, TJD (if he doesn't come back) will carry around with him the worst IU playing career of all time... and it is a team sport last I checked.
Cav, needs to tell these guys that they have to come back and set the record straight
Thanks for the thoughts.I put together a list and can't remember if I put it up here or not. Anyway, IU hasn't cracked the AP Top 20 now in something like 105 weeks (polls). It's the 15th longest streak among the 6 traditional Power conference schools. We broke the school record of 63 straight weeks without breaking into the Top 25 on the last poll release of the season.
Looking at the last 10 years, those BIG titles and Sweet 16's are going to start rolling off and here shortly we won't have anything to claim in a decade, if we don't start winning.
I've kinda gone ocd on AP Poll history, because I thought it was amazing that, even through some lean times, no IU recruit had ever come to Bloomington, stayed for 4 years and failed to crack the AP Top 10 at least once. I mean that is a great stat! Then Al Durham messed it up and became the first.
Incredibly, Al goes to a Providence team, that only won 13 games a year ago, and redeems himself in a big way. I'm damned near obsessed with Trayce, Race and Rob coming back and rectifying their careers by going out on a high note next year.
The only guys to ever stay through their Junior years and not crack the Top 10 were Joby Wright, Rick Ford, Pritch, Roth and Verdell. All of those guys got it done as seniors. I just hate to see these guys go out like this. From a Poll perspective, TJD (if he doesn't come back) will carry around with him the worst IU playing career of all time... and it is a team sport last I checked.
Cav, needs to tell these guys that they have to come back and set the record straight
as fans sometimes we pick things to focus on that make little sense. A great example is sweet 16s.
living outside the AP for that long is a pretty good measurement of consistency.
Yes... we have become one of the most consistent programs in the country. We're never really that far away either. Last year we lost 4 or 5 buy games from the schedule. Add those W's back in and it looks like the other years. It reminds me of back when I used to follow the Pacers. They were good enough to almost make the playoffs year after year, but never bad enough to get a coveted draft pick.
We aren’t losing any recruits. We are losing quite a bit of production from this team though.
Our 2023 class isn’t great right now.
We need a shooter that is for damned sure if they cannot develop the guys I listed.
I didn't like Xavier's game at the beginning of the season. He kept turning it over and trying to make spectacular plays instead of the simple right one. But I will say this. He got a lot better. Coach Woodson had an influence on him and there were a lot of games where he would have 8 assists and 1 turnover. His shooting got better too. Got to give the kid props.
I suspect i have been watching IU basketball a lot longer than you.
Why the shot? All I was saying was X needs to be a leader that keeps other players in line, not joins in doing something stupid, hurtful to the season and tournament prospects. He demonstrated he needed to grow up.
You have to remember my image of a role model as point guard and leader was Quinn Buckner. While X may have a bit more talent in some ways than Quinn (can hit free throws) he isn't even in the same league as Quinn as a leader.
I'm glad you're so positive about him, I too saw what he did the last seven or eight games. But leading teammates goes beyond a player's own personal production and I suspect Woodson has had numerous conversations with X about maturity (stop whining to officials about fouls called) and being the guy that helps his team avoid dumb turnovers, poor shot selection and defensive lapses. That is what a leader does. For most of the season X didn't do that.
Despite your shot I will continue to watch and cheer IU basketball as I have done for a very long time.
You took a blantent shot at Xavier, saying he should have been a leader and not broke curfew.
You have no knowledge on the incident, and have simply read hearsay on the internet. I was defending Xavier, because he is a leader, and that incident has no barring on his leadership.
His demeanor was night and day as the season went on. You could see coach working on trying to keep him in check earlier in the year, and I think it helped. We cannot have a PG that is going to get all chippy and be a threat to be kicked out of any game for pulling a Howard. To X’s credit , he seemed much more focused on basketball down the stretch, and less prone to argue with the refs and get mixed up with all the dirty crap that was going on early.
from a basketball standpoint he became much better at controlling his body, and his release off the dribble. He is really good at stopping midrange and taking that extra hair of a second to be in rhythm for the pull up. He is really good at stopping and going, and that athletic advantage makes him very difficult to guard.
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No bearing on his leadership? You can’t really believe that. You’re pissing on us and telling us it’s raining when you make a claim like that. I don’t care what the facts are. He was one of the players who got suspended. He clearly made a mistake. Doesn’t mean he can’t still be the leader we all want him to be, but to say it has no impact? That’s the height of denial or ignorance.
UCLA, a blue blood, was sure happy to get a "play in" game 2 years ago.
I consider myself an original fan of Dan. I listened to his first broadcast on 1070, as I'm sure many did. Listened for a few years. Liked him on BTN. Loved him at IU. Met him at camp in 80s. Thought he stepped in and tried to help IU earnestly in the 2000s.
Dude goes to ESPN and goes full shock jock.
Now he just wants to fight everybody. Arguing w kids and shit.
Well, IU had won the National Championship the year before...
The big upsets are so much fun and in some cases more memorable than the actual National Champ. One thing that gets overblown though is the way fans and media start to question the program that was the victim of the big upset.
In recent years at least teams actually have a pretty interesting history the year following the embarrassing loss. Six of the last 10 National Champions were either coming off an embarrassing loss the year prior, or didn't even qualify for the tournament at all which is it's own kind of embarrassing.
Start with Villanova. They lost to #8 seeds as a #1 seed the year prior to both of their championships. Though that may not seem like that big of an upset, the #8 seed only wins in 20.8% of those #8 vs #1 matchups. By way of comparison, #13 seeds beat #4 seeds at a 20.95% clip, so the #8 over #1 is the equivalent of a #13 beating a #4. Jay Wright had a developing narrative of being an NCAAT underachiever that was given a big boost after that loss to NC State back in 2015.
-Virginia won their title the year after the most embarrassing tourney loss of all time to #16 UMBC
-Duke won in 2015 the year after losing to Mercer
-U-Conn won their two most recent titles the year after not even qualifying for the dance.
You didn't see it very often back before 1-and-dones and transfer portals. In fact, IU's bounce back performance in the 1987 tournament following the Cleveland St. loss is the only one of it's kind in the seeding era until you get to 2003 Syracuse who won the year after not qualifying.
He was one of the guys that broke the curfew and was suspended. Are you saying he wasn't there or suspended for no reason? Kids make mistakes, X made one that proved, at that time, he was not a leader. Interesting you don't define X's leaderships demonstrated through the season. Fact is Cav, he wasn't one. The last few games only show potential, not proof. I get it that you seem to be close to some players, but your objectivity is lacking sometimes. I repeat, X isn't, at least right now, and wasn't, as demonstrated through most of the season, a leader in the Quinn Buckner mode. I suspect Woodson has had numerous conversations with X to try to get him there. I hope he is successful.
X's gameplay certainly improved as the season went on, but the narrative that the suspension acted as a catalyst is a stretch. The argument could easily be made that his improvement began many games prior to the suspension. For example, in the three games immediately after the suspension, his turnovers were nearly double his season average with a significant decrease in points and assists. While this could largely be attributed to the level of competition, it's clear that the suspension didn't flip a switch. X's improvement was gradual.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/xavier-johnson-2/gamelog/2022
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It set him back. He was finally getting his act together and playing productive ball at the 1, then he went off the reservation, literally and figuratively.
Yes, 2012 they lost to eventual national champ, UK, in the Sweet 16. 2013 won B10 title and made it to Sweet 16. 2016 won B10 title and made it to Sweet 16. It was only really bad from 2017-2021 (however, they would've likely made the tourney that wasn't played in 2020).
bad is also relative. Since Crean's first 3 years, IU has won at least 7 conference games every year, and when IU has finished in the bottom 3rd, its never been more than a game or 2 out of middle of the pack.
2014 - 7-11 for 8th of 12 (2 games out from 6th place)
2015 - 9-9 for 7th of 14
2017 - 7-11 for 10th of 14 (1 game out of 8th)
2018 - 9-9 for 6th of 14
2019 - 8-12 for 8th of 14
2020 - 9-11 for 10th of 14 (2 games out of 5th)
2021 - 7-12 for 10th of 14 (2 games out of 8th)
2022 - 9-11 for 9th of 14 (2 games out of 7th
Only other BT teams that haven't posted a 5 win or less conference record in that time frame are MSU, OSU, Wisc, Mich. IU's track record over the last decade isn't good, but its maybe somewhat surprising that for as bad as things have been over this span, IU has never completely bottomed out.
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