Is Yogi the most overrated Hoosier of all time?
- Thread starter toastedbread
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I'm done with basketball.
Watching 'The Departed' for the 20th time.
Watching 'The Departed' for the 20th time.
The worst year for that was year 2 for Crean where we had to watch former Sampson players and recruits all seemingly do well in the tourney.
I love that movie. Except for Marky Mark who over does everything.
Their Indiana players are awesome. Nope, nothing wrong with the relationship of state coaches and the head basketball coach of Indiana University.
Donnie is a much better actor than Mark.
He was good in 'Band of Brothers' and 'Boomtown' (TV show).
Ya that was a bad one. Armon for Ohio and Crawford for X. Those two dummies could play.
Don't forget Holloway also at Xavier and Ebanks who ended up at WVU. Wasn't that the year they beat the Wall/Cousins UK team?
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
I am just glad he chose to come to IU. He has given us a lot of good memories. Some of his passes to Cody were of the type that got me out of my chair.
Said it many times.
Yogi is a very good player, but he isn't great.
But people (the Settlers on the Premie) are searching so hard for ANYTHING that seems like it could be special, since Crean took over.
Yogi was very good. He wasn't anything approaching great.
Yogi is a very good player, but he isn't great.
But people (the Settlers on the Premie) are searching so hard for ANYTHING that seems like it could be special, since Crean took over.
Yogi was very good. He wasn't anything approaching great.
There is no F-ing way.
Since I was born
Quinn Buckner
Scott May
George McGinnis
Steve Alford
Isiah Thomas
Bobby Wilkerson
Calbert Cheaney
Randy Wittman
Steve Downing
Kent Benson
Ted Kitchel
Mike Woodson
Alan Henderson
Ray Tolbert
Damon Bailey
Those are just the four year guys or guys who won titles, with the exception of McGinnis.
Cody Zeller
Jared Jeffries
Victor Oladipo
I'm pretty sure I know how that story ends, but I'll keep it to myself.
It's upsetting
But OHG says you can't compare players from different eras with today's players. I still say, statistically, he's a top 15 player. Idc if you don't agree with that.
I don't know. His defensive advanced box score was actually worse than his Freshman year. Yogi's a bit of an overrated defender, but that's just my opinion.
I think he was a really good player who carried this team, but putting him up against Zeke and the greats is motivated heavily by recency bias.
Well, I'm not the one saying his top-15 all time. I'm just saying he's not the "most overrated Hoosier ever."
That said, I actually think recency bias is a good thing to have when talking about all-time greats, because most players today are better than most players thirty years ago.
Yogi had a nice career. But these moron writers who want to start mentioning him in the same breath as Quinn Buckner and Isiah Thomas do him no favors. He wasn't and isn't. He's a nice college guard who had an exceptional senior year.
2 time big ten champion so you have to give him credit. But he was also the point guard of 2 sweet 16 teams who never were competitive in those games.
I didn't say only the top players were better today than 30 years ago. I said most players. That includes the competition. Everyone's better.
Let me put it this way: if you owned a time machine, you could grab any one of a large number of current players, drop them in 1980, and they would dominate. Not any player, but a large number. The number of players you could grab while you're there in 1980, and bring them back to dominate in today's game could probably all fit in your DeLorean in one trip.
Can you imagine how far back you would have to take Crean for him to dominate?
No he didn't. He had a good senior year, if he had an exceptional one, you would see him get drafted. Compared to other players in a number one role on top 40 teams, Yogi put up average stats.
I'm beginning to agree with toast.(GOAT!) He may very well be, especially at this moment in time, the most overrated IU player in history. Who is more overrated by IU fans? I'm thinking no one is even close to being as overrated in perception vs reality.
He was in the 50% for his role. Which means that over the last 10 years 200 players in a number one role on a top 40 team put up equal numbers. 100 put up better numbers, and 100 put up worse. He's a good combo guard, but nothing he ever did was "exceptional" ... he's as mediocre as his coach.
Except one stat; possession usage. I'm almost positive he used more possessions than any player in IU history and by quite a bit.
Not going off on you or anything, just ranting and you probably chose that word not thinking, but I'm just tired of his undeserved accolades.
His PER is 22 - same as Troy Williams and only two above OG.
Cody had a 30 and 29 - 8 and 7 pts above average for his role.
Oladipo had a 30 - 10 pts above average for his role, which was #2.
Jeffries had a 29- 7 pts above
Bailey had a 29 - 7 pts above
Cheaney had a 34, 12 pts above average - no wonder he was player of the year, right? 3 pts in PER is seen as drastic
Henderson in his senior year had a 33. 11 pts above average.
and each of them had traits in the top 2%, Cody off reb. Oladipo steals. Jeffries def rebounding. Cheaney scoring and 3pt shooting. Henderson def rebounding. All but Bailey and each of them was drafted in the first rd, except Bailey.
Those were exceptional years. Yogi had a 22. which again, is average.... and did not have one trait in the top 2%.
Tyler Ulis, who is only 5'9 - 3" shorter than Yogi - ie the major excuse used by our fans as to why Yogi won't be in the NBA - put up a 25. He will be in the NBA next year. Kris Dunn after getting as high as 33 last year had an awful year by his standards, and his PER dipped hard to 23 but he put up assists and steals in the 2%.. He also rebounds in the top 1% of his position. He will be drafted first rd.
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Yea, I get that. But in competitive sports everything is relative to the competition.
I know. That's why 1) comparing players from different eras is a fool's task and 2) if you're going to do it anyway, a little recency bias isn't necessarily a bad thing. I guess I just don't understand why you repeating the same point again.
Doubt it...at least in college. Players were older and often more skilled. 1980's Isiah Thomas would have little problem with yogi. UNC had no Jordan's, Worthys or Perkins.
If yogi were competing against his peers right now he'd be in the NBA. Wasn't the case back then. The college game is pretty bad today compared to back then. Everyone is, in fact, likely worse (if due to average age, if nothing else).
They didnt move the 3-point line back farther because so many shooters were getting worse...
On the old film clips - the big guys were built like Priller. Tall skinny rail types. Today everyone is fast, everyone is strong, most can jump.
The science involved with todays athletes has made todays athletes far superior. They used to have budweisers iced down and cigarettes provided in locker rooms postgame.
The fact that this thread has spanned 4 pages and multiple days of arguments for and against Yogi probably does more to say that Yogi is not the most over-rated player, because he is not over-rated by so many - as many are arguing for both sides.
Relative to competition ..
Comparing today's stats or players vs yesterdays is stupid. Comparing the percentage ranking of a players stats in either era will supply an answer or starting place to gauge how effective that player was (in his era). Since those players smoking cigars played against players smoking cigars, and todays' roid enhanced athletes are playing against other roid enhanced athletes, then the playing field is the same. BECAUSE in competitive sports everything is relative to the competition. So, no, we cannot compare McCracken to Ferrell, but I would be willing to bet that McCracken had stats that wer in the top 2% of his era. Thus we can gauge McCracken relative to his competition was better than Yogi fking Ferrell because his WERE NOT!
Jesus Christ! Why is that concept so hard to fking understand? Are we going to take away this year's championships because the stats imply that this year is the weakest statistical year since at least 1995. Seriously, the only team currently that would rank in the top 10 last year, would be UNC. If so then Yogi's stats are even worse, because using a four year SOS and using averages stats during those better years - will dip him below average. If so, our championship is also tainted because it came against the weakest conference field in ten years.
Why is that dumb, players in that era were also more skilled and smarter. Plus, a guy like Jordan stayed 3 years. In the present era, how many did Kobe Bryant play? If the one and dones all played NCAA, and all stayed 3 years on average, you don't believe the overall basketball would be improved.Especially for the major teams (which is all we should care about as the 351st team is so bad it skews our perception). It would be exponential, not only would this year's one and dones come back, but last years, and the year before. Also, those players leaving early creates a talent vacuum that effects every team below them in stature because their recruiting is affected. Imagine UK with the 12 team staying until last year. the 13/14/and 15 recruits would have signed elsewhere.Talent vacuum...
If we brought the 82 UNC team to the present age - our walk ons would probably beat them because the whole damn starting unit would already be in the NBA
