Is the 9 game B1G schedule hurting IU?

[IUCol]

The talent is NOT in place to compete in the upper half of the B10. If you believe that you are in for a lot of disappointment. What we are is better...more higher rated kids...but nowhere even close to top teams; It is belief like this that cause people to turn hateful when their impossible expectations are not met.

If you have followed IU FB for decades...if you have any real understanding of the game and the B10...you know we are trending upward but very far short of our goals. Win and the trend continue upward...lose and it nose dives.

Worry more about coaching than talent imo...they must find a way to win with what we have. And they haven't yet. But maybe this season...maybe

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Really?!? You're a bigger fan of college football than of a trip to Bloomington to watch an Indiana home game because of the opponent?

I saw my first game in 1966. MSU (Bubba Smith, George Webster) at IU. I believe MSU won 35-10, but it was a pretty good game. I've seen a solid majority of IU's home games since. I used to see a game or two on the road each year, but I've cut that out as my wife's not much of a fan. Also, although I tried, I couldn't get either of my kids to be big IU football fans because of IU's lack of success. So, all-in-all, I don't need to take crap from you or the senile old goat about my IU fandom.

I share some of Knothole's frustrations about game days, most of which involve chasing the $$.....the tacky contests & promotions, the monitizing of the grass parking lots,the endless TV timeouts, the band never getting better.....I just have very little patience anymore for that stuff. So.....if you're going to have 3 games each year v. Norvolk State, I'm only going to the first one. I remember when we played USC, LSU, Washington, Nebraska, UK, NC State, Cincy. I'll go to those games every time. I realize that kind of schedule is no longer realistic..........

But yes....I'd rather stay home and watch the likes of ND v. Michigan or OSU v. Texas than see IU play a Norfolk St or Texas St. I'm very interested in seeing really good CF match-ups.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I like your previous post, but respectfully disagree with this one.

First of all, these lower tier bowls (Boca Raton, Garparilla, Camellia, Dollar General, etc) are generally for G5 teams. Those kids deserve to play in a postseason game, if the market will bear it.

Key phrase: ... If the market will bear it.

If people didn't want to watch, and actually didn't watch, the market it will take care of it. But these G5 teams have fans too, they have teams that win 10+ games, are ranked in the top 25, and teams that get into, and even win, NYD bowls. None of that would be possible without the developmental opportunities of postseason training and practice.

Secondly, i find it odd when fans of teams who hardly go to bowls advocate for fewer bowls. Where would we be if the NCAA required a minimum of 7 wins to qualify? Where are we going to get 4 conference wins when we currently struggle to get three, especially considering the lack of postseason development?

I don't think you fully get what I'm trying to say. I need to express it more carefully.

It's not that I am not interested in seeing IU is a 'lesser' bowl game. I went to the Peach Bowl game v. Tennessee in the Mallory years....seeing Atlanta and watching that game was very enjoyable. I also enjoyed our bowl games v. BYU & Auburn.

Personally, I think it cheapens the game when a bad team qualifies for a bowl game. That can happen when you're given 3 automatic wins right off the bat. I don't think a team that goes 3-6 against its peers should be rewarded with a bowl game. How is this any different than kids getting participation trophies in Little League??? That doesn't mean that I won't watch IU when it plays a game in Shreveport or in NYC in late December. And that's not a big deal one way or the other. I can see how others would have a different view.

What really bothers me about the crap bowls is that 85% of college teams, including IU, play what amounts to three exhibition games each year for the express purpose of qualifying for one of these crap bowl games. Too me that's disgusting, and it really is a blot on college football as a whole. .I hate it. Rather than continue this way, I'd prefer to go back to 10 games, with 1 game being of the Norvolk St variety. That's better for the student athlete anyway. And it wouldn't hurt college football as a game. All the $$ that's involved in the game now hasn't made it a better game....quite the opposite.

 

[knothole gang]

I saw my first game in 1966. MSU (Bubba Smith, George Webster) at IU. I believe MSU won 35-10, but it was a pretty good game. I've seen a solid majority of IU's home games since. I used to see a game or two on the road each year, but I've cut that out as my wife's not much of a fan. Also, although I tried, I couldn't get either of my kids to be big IU football fans because of IU's lack of success. So, all-in-all, I don't need to take crap from you or the senile old goat about my IU fandom.

I share some of Knothole's frustrations about game days, most of which involve chasing the $$.....the tacky contests & promotions, the monitizing of the grass parking lots,the endless TV timeouts, the band never getting better.....I just have very little patience anymore for that stuff. So.....if you're going to have 3 games each year v. Norvolk State, I'm only going to the first one. I remember when we played USC, LSU, Washington, Nebraska, UK, NC State, Cincy. I'll go to those games every time. I realize that kind of schedule is no longer realistic..........

But yes....I'd rather stay home and watch the likes of ND v. Michigan or OSU v. Texas than see IU play a Norfolk St or Texas St. I'm very interested in seeing really good CF match-ups.

If victories increased AND the game day experience improved, I believe we'd draw bigger crowds even if we played Norfolk St.....and we could likely have at least one other P5 OOC draw like Louisville which is coming up on the schedule.

With bigger crowds comes all the positives of more money game day, probable positive correlation in alumni donations, probably positive impact on recruiting experiences, probable introduction of new fans to IU Football and then rinse and repeat.

It's just been down for so long, and requires so much more to get off the ground and break through.....that we cannot sit still when it comes to continued investing in the football program.

FANTASTIC that the new locker room opens July 31 and that a players lounge is opening as well. We are in the ballpark for comprable facilitities. But, if other B10 programs continue to build, we fall behind.

We need a new practice facility. We need a new press box with loge seating. We need to increase asst coaches salaries significantly.

Now is the time to INVEST MORE. $54 Million annually coming in on the current Big10 TV contract. Use MORE NOW.

 

[Columbus-Boiler]

No, I want UMass AND Nebraska, for a better chance of going to a bowl game.

You're in the same boat we are, need to get good enough to win enough games regardless of the schedule. Need to UPSET a team every year or two to make it. "Scheduling" 4 of the 6 wins is kind of a hollow victory after time, and you end up getting your ass kicked in a bowl like we did last year.

 

[IUCol]

You're in the same boat we are, need to get good enough to win enough games regardless of the schedule. Need to UPSET a team every year or two to make it. "Scheduling" 4 of the 6 wins is kind of a hollow victory after time, and you end up getting your ass kicked in a bowl like we did last year.

Gotta agree...well said.

 

[IUCX9]

I don't think you fully get what I'm trying to say. I need to express it more carefully.

It's not that I am not interested in seeing IU is a 'lesser' bowl game. I went to the Peach Bowl game v. Tennessee in the Mallory years....seeing Atlanta and watching that game was very enjoyable. I also enjoyed our bowl games v. BYU & Auburn.

Personally, I think it cheapens the game when a bad team qualifies for a bowl game. That can happen when you're given 3 automatic wins right off the bat. I don't think a team that goes 3-6 against its peers should be rewarded with a bowl game. How is this any different than kids getting participation trophies in Little League??? That doesn't mean that I won't watch IU when it plays a game in Shreveport or in NYC in late December. And that's not a big deal one way or the other. I can see how others would have a different view.

What really bothers me about the crap bowls is that 85% of college teams, including IU, play what amounts to three exhibition games each year for the express purpose of qualifying for one of these crap bowl games. Too me that's disgusting, and it really is a blot on college football as a whole. .I hate it. Rather than continue this way, I'd prefer to go back to 10 games, with 1 game being of the Norvolk St variety. That's better for the student athlete anyway. And it wouldn't hurt college football as a game. All the $$ that's involved in the game now hasn't made it a better game....quite the opposite.

I think the disconnect between us is that you are trying to rationalize the bowls system from a P5 perspective while I'm viewing it from a general G5 and lower P5 point of view.

From your point of view, P5 teams that schedule 3 cupcakes and go 3-6 vs their peers are undeserving of a bowl bid. So if IU were to have been under that scenario, you would rather see us not go to a crap bowl because it would be disgusting and cheapens the game.

However, I disagree.

Programs like lower P5, IU and G5 programs that ***need*** post season development for their teams to get over the hump. We need it to develop depth and experience. Did you know that early enrollees can participate in bowl practices? They can't play in the game, but they can practice. How beneficial.

So while you might look at it in the CFB Macro level where more games is bad for the sport, I look at it at an IU Micro level. Teams like us trying to bust out of 30 years of losing seasons need these crap bowl games and need to use them in the best way possible. Eliminating them would make it even harder for us to break through.

 

[IUCX9]

You're in the same boat we are, need to get good enough to win enough games regardless of the schedule. Need to UPSET a team every year or two to make it. "Scheduling" 4 of the 6 wins is kind of a hollow victory after time, and you end up getting your ass kicked in a bowl like we did last year.

That's because you boilers got upgraded to a bowl you didn't deserve. You should have gone to Detroit to play another mediocre team, but instead Brohm-mania helped you leapfrog Minnesota (who kicked your tail). It should have been Fleck in Nashville and Brohm in Detroit. Maybe you wouldn't have been so embarrassed.

 

[stripetology]

I wish the opponent and the weather were the real problems for IU lack of attendance...but they aren't. I have said this a hundred times at least...IU has never replaced the older crowds of the nineties and early 2000's...they got too old for games and simply died out. I know because many of my friends were older alum who gave up on games. Students cannot be counted on...they already have FB teams they follow.. There are no fans to grab out of the air. For any single game against UM or OSU, they show....but nothing else. If it wasn't for those games do you think we would be averaging 40,000 the paper claims??

The only means to gain fans for IU is to grow them here at home. What are we doing to accomplish that? As far as I know, winning in front of kids is it. It will be a decade or more imo before we might see a mostly full stadium of rabid fans.

Too bad this must be accomplished during a time of falling attendance everywhere.

Tuff job, eh?

You hit a very key factor here that no one really wants or is able to grasp. IU should be doing all they can to fill every seat, every game. A band week or youth day isn’t enough. They’ve tried some, but I fear it’s from a “normal” perspective and not the severe situation it really is. Same issue is happening to basketball but still enough old guard to hide most of it.

 

[RBB89]

You hit a very key factor here that no one really wants or is able to grasp. IU should be doing all they can to fill every seat, every game. A band week or youth day isn’t enough. They’ve tried some, but I fear it’s from a “normal” perspective and not the severe situation it really is. Same issue is happening to basketball but still enough old guard to hide most of it.

Tickets are relatively cheap this year with the tiered pricing, and we’ve got beer now. Other than that, we need wins.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

If victories increased AND the game day experience improved, I believe we'd draw bigger crowds even if we played Norfolk St.....and we could likely have at least one other P5 OOC draw like Louisville which is coming up on the schedule.

With bigger crowds comes all the positives of more money game day, probable positive correlation in alumni donations, probably positive impact on recruiting experiences, probable introduction of new fans to IU Football and then rinse and repeat.

It's just been down for so long, and requires so much more to get off the ground and break through.....that we cannot sit still when it comes to continued investing in the football program.

FANTASTIC that the new locker room opens July 31 and that a players lounge is opening as well. We are in the ballpark for comprable facilitities. But, if other B10 programs continue to build, we fall behind.

We need a new practice facility. We need a new press box with loge seating. We need to increase asst coaches salaries significantly.

Now is the time to INVEST MORE. $54 Million annually coming in on the current Big10 TV contract. Use MORE NOW.

The key to getting actual butts in the seats in the short-term is season ticket sales.

Individuals who have season tickets are more likely to show up for the Norvolk States of the world than other interested fans. People who have season tickets will likely show up even when the season disappoints because they mentally have the game on their schedule. On the other hand, people w/o season tickets might be slow to get on board even if the season is going relatively well.

When a season disappoints or surprises, it effects next years season tickets more than attendance within a year.

 

[Columbus-Boiler]

You hit a very key factor here that no one really wants or is able to grasp. IU should be doing all they can to fill every seat, every game. A band week or youth day isn’t enough. They’ve tried some, but I fear it’s from a “normal” perspective and not the severe situation it really is. Same issue is happening to basketball but still enough old guard to hide most of it.

Filling seats requires enticing opponents and matchups the fans want to see, not just record. Sure the fans need to think they have a good shot at winning, but scheduling programs with names helps fill seats vs. "directional Midwest state U". The problem with both our programs has been the quality of the team, you don't solve that by weakening the schedule (although you can get short term rewards for this). I'm far more likely do drive a few hours to see Purdue vs. OSU than I am to see Purdue vs. MAC dujour (even though the outcome is far less likely to be positive).

 

[Columbus-Boiler]

That's because you boilers got upgraded to a bowl you didn't deserve. You should have gone to Detroit to play another mediocre team, but instead Brohm-mania helped you leapfrog Minnesota (who kicked your tail). It should have been Fleck in Nashville and Brohm in Detroit. Maybe you wouldn't have been so embarrassed.

The lower bowls aren't often on merit and head to head doesn't factor into it much. Their main goal is as many butts in seats and watchers on couches as possible. If they thought Purdue would travel better and "Brohm-mania" and the story line of "will he leave or not?" would add viewers then that's how they made not only this call but all the bowl game decisions outside of bowls with designated parameters.

Besides, a Fleck interview is like watching Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

 

[stripetology]

You hit a very key factor here that no one really wants or is able to grasp. IU should be doing all they can to fill every seat, every game. A band week or youth day isn’t enough. They’ve tried some, but I fear it’s from a “normal” perspective and not the severe situation it really is. Same issue is happening to basketball but still enough old guard to hide most of it.

Filling seats requires enticing opponents and matchups the fans want to see, not just record. Sure the fans need to think they have a good shot at winning, but scheduling programs with names helps fill seats vs. "directional Midwest state U". The problem with both our programs has been the quality of the team, you don't solve that by weakening the schedule (although you can get short term rewards for this). I'm far more likely do drive a few hours to see Purdue vs. OSU than I am to see Purdue vs. MAC dujour (even though the outcome is far less likely to be positive).

You aren’t wrong, just feel more to it than that to get through valleys like the one IU has been in for years attendance wise. I remember when PU gave free tickets to all students for example during some bad years. I don’t necessarily think IU should go that route but would love to see corporate and elem/hs schools get special treatment while tickets available

 

[stripetology]

You hit a very key factor here that no one really wants or is able to grasp. IU should be doing all they can to fill every seat, every game. A band week or youth day isn’t enough. They’ve tried some, but I fear it’s from a “normal” perspective and not the severe situation it really is. Same issue is happening to basketball but still enough old guard to hide most of it.

Tickets are relatively cheap this year with the tiered pricing, and we’ve got beer now. Other than that, we need wins.

You aren’t wrong, either. Good steps but is it enough for situation (rhetorical, i really don’t know)? Tiered pricing could/should have been strategy years ago given attendance. Progress for sure, but is it far enough to address the real issue developing fandom at a deeper level? Need to be thinking how you fill most seats on the short term as it relates to developing loyalty/desire for experience on the long term. Let’s say big local companies are offered blocks for a couple games. Or schools get a couple games for kids/families. At least you get some back in parking/concessions. More importantly, you repeatedly expose atmosphere to potential fans. As soon as winning takes off, adjust strategy. Not meant to be permanent strategy.

 

[IUCol]

The lower bowls aren't often on merit and head to head doesn't factor into it much. Their main goal is as many butts in seats and watchers on couches as possible. If they thought Purdue would travel better and "Brohm-mania" and the story line of "will he leave or not?" would add viewers then that's how they made not only this call but all the bowl game decisions outside of bowls with designated parameters.

Besides, a Fleck interview is like watching Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

Dude...you are alright in my book! A prolonged Fleck interview might bring about viewer psychosis...

 

[Hoosier009]

You aren’t wrong, either. Good steps but is it enough for situation (rhetorical, i really don’t know)? Tiered pricing could/should have been strategy years ago given attendance. Progress for sure, but is it far enough to address the real issue developing fandom at a deeper level? Need to be thinking how you fill most seats on the short term as it relates to developing loyalty/desire for experience on the long term. Let’s say big local companies are offered blocks for a couple games. Or schools get a couple games for kids/families. At least you get some back in parking/concessions. More importantly, you repeatedly expose atmosphere to potential fans. As soon as winning takes off, adjust strategy. Not meant to be permanent strategy.

Great short term idea. Long term and this should be no surprise to most folks we need to start winning 6+ games on a consistent basis and begin a culture change among student body and young alumni. For far to long football Saturday has meant a great tailgate party with no intention of attending the game. That's the culture among a big share of our students and alumni under 40. It will take a while to develop but it can be done. Beer/Wine sales in the stadium should help some. We need that breakout season to get the ball rolling.

 

[Euro]

Think the score was much worse than that, but we went on to beat the Spartans in 67, 68 and 69 all in East Lansing, quite the one sided scheduling.

I saw my first game in 1966. MSU (Bubba Smith, George Webster) at IU. I believe MSU won 35-10, but it was a pretty good game. I've seen a solid majority of IU's home games since. I used to see a game or two on the road each year, but I've cut that out as my wife's not much of a fan. Also, although I tried, I couldn't get either of my kids to be big IU football fans because of IU's lack of success. So, all-in-all, I don't need to take crap from you or the senile old goat about my IU fandom.

I share some of Knothole's frustrations about game days, most of which involve chasing the $$.....the tacky contests & promotions, the monitizing of the grass parking lots,the endless TV timeouts, the band never getting better.....I just have very little patience anymore for that stuff. So.....if you're going to have 3 games each year v. Norvolk State, I'm only going to the first one. I remember when we played USC, LSU, Washington, Nebraska, UK, NC State, Cincy. I'll go to those games every time. I realize that kind of schedule is no longer realistic..........

But yes....I'd rather stay home and watch the likes of ND v. Michigan or OSU v. Texas than see IU play a Norfolk St or Texas St. I'm very interested in seeing really good CF match-ups.