Interesting voting dynamic in my house

[IUNorth]

I'm not sure this required a new post. But it is interesting enough, to me, that I thought I'd get a discussion going on it.

For many years, politics in my household has been very, very much a back burner topic. My wife and I are both independent voters, and we rarely ever talk politics in any sort of depth. Trump has been a little bit of a lightning rod, at times. My wife has a pretty open dislike for him, which dated back well before he ran for President in 16. But even at that, I wouldn't say she has ever been someone that actively thinks about, studies, politics or candidates in general. She'll ask me..."Is there anyone I need to vote for tomorrow"...the day before an election. That sort of thing. Which I think is probably VERY normal.

Biden's Presidency, and his own decline, in our household, and especially with my wife, has acted like a "Political sedative". Basically, we just didn't really care any more. These are our two choices? Really? If that's where we're at...I've got a lot more important things going on to worry about...wake me when its over...that was the mood in our house.

Then Biden dropped out. My wife sent me a text with a link to the news (that's actually how I first heard about it). That's literally the first political related link shes ever sent me. Since then, links and little convos have been happening between dozens of people in our little "village". And I've never seen my wife so excited, and engaged in politics. To the point where she was asking me who I thought would be Harris' best choice to win in the swing midwest states?!?! When I said she needs to get the nomination first...my wife was pretty indignant at the thought of her not being the nominee...and she's now fairly well versed in the process through the convention. I know my wife well enough to know that Harris lure is mainly a couple things 1)she's not Trump 2)how she looks and sounds when she talks. Like Trump for many MAGA voters, the specific words and content can be secondary. Its how she feels when she sees and hears Harris. 3)she's a vibrant, younger woman (relative to Trump/Biden). When I pushed her about some of the things that she has done in her past, some of the policy issues...and reminded her that her favorite POTUS was GWBush...because of "how good a man he is." She gave me "the look", and just said, she's running against Trump. And then went on to say..."I can't imagine all the crap she faced trying to do the things she's done."

So, my wife is currently all in on a Harris campaign. Me? I'm not nearly as sold. Some of her policy history, I don't jive with. I really don't jive with the current far left decisions, rhetoric, direction, etc... And Harris, as much as any other viable option right now for the Dems, seems to be more aligned with further left policies, words, and actions than most others.

But man...Its hard to downplay the impact my wifes energy is having on me. And though I'm not really "on board" with Harris, I am about as engaged or excited to see how the nomination process unfolds as I have for any political process in my lifetime. For me, that's how bad the choice of Trump or Biden was going to be. And I'm wondering if this 24' election might have some similarities to 16', but in reverse. Meaning, I could see polling data showing Trump with a comfortable lead over Harris the next few months. But election night...a tidal wave of women voters, minority voters, etc... in all the key swing areas, and Harris dramatically outperforming polling data.

 

[All4You]

I appreciate such a long and thoughtful post like this but really Kamala Harris (as did Joe Biden) ticks only one box that matters to her likely voters...she isn't Donald Trump. But IMHO Trump fatigue isn't enough to put her over like it did Biden in 2020. We aren't knee deep in a global pandemic this time around, and both Trump and Biden/Harris have 4 year resumes on the books now. She is directly tied to/responsible for several hot button issues that plagued the Biden/Harris administration. When the dust settles and the novelty of this situation wears off, she will have to run on her (and Joe's) record. That ain't good.

 

[BCCHoosier]

I appreciate such a long and thoughtful post like this but really Kamala Harris (as did Joe Biden) ticks only one box that matters to her likely voters...she isn't Donald Trump. But IMHO Trump fatigue isn't enough to put her over like it did Biden in 2020. We aren't knee deep in a global pandemic this time around, and both Trump and Biden/Harris have 4 year resumes on the books now. She is directly tied to/responsible for several hot button issues that plagued the Biden/Harris administration. When the dust settles and the novelty of this situation wears off, she will have to run on her (and Joe's) record. That ain't good.

Good initial post and good response. I agree that she is generating excitement at the moment but do think it will fade soon.

It will be interesting to see who she picks for VP. Could generate an additional bump. I also wonder if Beshear, Kelly, and Shapiro are all willing to accept an offer from her to seve as VP.

 

[twenty02]

First Prez/VP ballot since 1976 that won't have the name Bush, Clinton or Biden on it.

 

[hoot1]

I'm not sure this required a new post. But it is interesting enough, to me, that I thought I'd get a discussion going on it.

For many years, politics in my household has been very, very much a back burner topic. My wife and I are both independent voters, and we rarely ever talk politics in any sort of depth. Trump has been a little bit of a lightning rod, at times. My wife has a pretty open dislike for him, which dated back well before he ran for President in 16. But even at that, I wouldn't say she has ever been someone that actively thinks about, studies, politics or candidates in general. She'll ask me..."Is there anyone I need to vote for tomorrow"...the day before an election. That sort of thing. Which I think is probably VERY normal.

Biden's Presidency, and his own decline, in our household, and especially with my wife, has acted like a "Political sedative". Basically, we just didn't really care any more. These are our two choices? Really? If that's where we're at...I've got a lot more important things going on to worry about...wake me when its over...that was the mood in our house.

Then Biden dropped out. My wife sent me a text with a link to the news (that's actually how I first heard about it). That's literally the first political related link shes ever sent me. Since then, links and little convos have been happening between dozens of people in our little "village". And I've never seen my wife so excited, and engaged in politics. To the point where she was asking me who I thought would be Harris' best choice to win in the swing midwest states?!?! When I said she needs to get the nomination first...my wife was pretty indignant at the thought of her not being the nominee...and she's now fairly well versed in the process through the convention. I know my wife well enough to know that Harris lure is mainly a couple things 1)she's not Trump 2)how she looks and sounds when she talks. Like Trump for many MAGA voters, the specific words and content can be secondary. Its how she feels when she sees and hears Harris. 3)she's a vibrant, younger woman (relative to Trump/Biden). When I pushed her about some of the things that she has done in her past, some of the policy issues...and reminded her that her favorite POTUS was GWBush...because of "how good a man he is." She gave me "the look", and just said, she's running against Trump. And then went on to say..."I can't imagine all the crap she faced trying to do the things she's done."

So, my wife is currently all in on a Harris campaign. Me? I'm not nearly as sold. Some of her policy history, I don't jive with. I really don't jive with the current far left decisions, rhetoric, direction, etc... And Harris, as much as any other viable option right now for the Dems, seems to be more aligned with further left policies, words, and actions than most others.

But man...Its hard to downplay the impact my wifes energy is having on me. And though I'm not really "on board" with Harris, I am about as engaged or excited to see how the nomination process unfolds as I have for any political process in my lifetime. For me, that's how bad the choice of Trump or Biden was going to be. And I'm wondering if this 24' election might have some similarities to 16', but in reverse. Meaning, I could see polling data showing Trump with a comfortable lead over Harris the next few months. But election night...a tidal wave of women voters, minority voters, etc... in all the key swing areas, and Harris dramatically outperforming polling data.

Interesting thread from the standpoint of women and politics.

Generally speaking the women in my family quietly run things but let the men think they are in control. Topics such was sports and politics used to be dominated by the men, but lately this has changed dramatically.

As a country it wasn't until 1920 that women could vote. The suffrage movement took 80 years for this to happen.

Women holding political office has occurred at a slow pace. For example, women in the House of Representatives are outnumbered by men 2 to 1.

So will women finally start having a bigger voice in politics ? In my opinion the pace may increase but take longer than it should with Harris facing an uphill battle.

Women will continue to quietly rule at the family level while men dominate government and business rule.

 

[IUNorth]

Interesting thread from the standpoint of women and politics.

Generally speaking the women in my family quietly run things but let the men think they are in control. Topics such was sports and politics used to be dominated by the men, but lately this has changed dramatically.

As a country it wasn't until 1920 that women could vote. The suffrage movement took 80 years for this to happen.

Women holding political office has occurred at a slow pace. For example, women in the House of Representatives are outnumbered by men 2 to 1.

So will women finally start having a bigger voice in politics ? In my opinion the pace may increase but take longer than it should with Harris facing an uphill battle.

Women will continue to quietly rule at the family level while men dominate government and business rule.

This is a thread I'm wanting to pull...

In general, much of my daily activities surround making my wife happy. There are a wide ranging group of reasons for that, some funny, some very deep...but I think this dynamic is much more of a "thing" than most traditional male, breadwinner, patriarch types on this board probably ever think about.

And the shift in that dynamic, seemingly overnight, is an interesting one for me. Its has went from "who should I vote for"...almost to "You're voting for Harris, right?..." with a hard stare.

I do agree that who Harris is, the stuff she's done, very well could mute all this.

But again, an interesting dynamic unfolding in my little world. Will it have staying power? Does it represent other little voting villages? Not sure...and I guess we'll see. But I don't think anyone really knows or understands yet what the impact will be of having someone other than Biden/Clinton/even "Obama" ish...facing Trump. I'm starting to see how impactful it COULD end up being, I think. And my educated guess is its going to be A LOT more impactful in November than it might seem right now.

Another thing to remember...this entire election is going to be decided in a handful of areas, in a handful of states. And it doesn't take much to swing enough of a tide in those areas, to completely change an election. 16' and 20' should have taught everyone that.

Another lesson I'm learning...our "news cycle" nowadays is so crazy. We had a damn assassination attempt on a Presidential candidate, and a parties convention, all in the last 2 weeks. And I honestly didn't think about those things, pretty much at all, since Biden announced he was dropping out.

Moral to ALL of this... I wouldn't be all that comfortable with a Trump win, right now, if I were he and his supporters.

 

[IUNorth]

I appreciate such a long and thoughtful post like this but really Kamala Harris (as did Joe Biden) ticks only one box that matters to her likely voters...she isn't Donald Trump. But IMHO Trump fatigue isn't enough to put her over like it did Biden in 2020. We aren't knee deep in a global pandemic this time around, and both Trump and Biden/Harris have 4 year resumes on the books now. She is directly tied to/responsible for several hot button issues that plagued the Biden/Harris administration. When the dust settles and the novelty of this situation wears off, she will have to run on her (and Joe's) record. That ain't good.

I think it ticks that box for a decent sized group of voters, for sure. Similar to MAGA voters. But I really don't think it ends up ticking only that box. My wife, as an example, was never going to vote for Trump. But she was so apathetic to it all, that she was also not likely to vote for Biden...unless she got directions from me to "go vote for Biden"...which honestly, I don't think I was going to do myself this year, let alone tell her to.

That has now changed to her advocating FOR Harris, and actively trying to convince family members to...thinking about best running mate choices...etc...

To your point...its very possible this won't have long lasting staying power with my wife and our family? But the impact so far has been intriguing. I suspect its going to be more long lasting, and more impactful than you're giving it credit right now. Despite Harris being a VERY flawed candidate.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I'm not sure this required a new post. But it is interesting enough, to me, that I thought I'd get a discussion going on it.

For many years, politics in my household has been very, very much a back burner topic. My wife and I are both independent voters, and we rarely ever talk politics in any sort of depth. Trump has been a little bit of a lightning rod, at times. My wife has a pretty open dislike for him, which dated back well before he ran for President in 16. But even at that, I wouldn't say she has ever been someone that actively thinks about, studies, politics or candidates in general. She'll ask me..."Is there anyone I need to vote for tomorrow"...the day before an election. That sort of thing. Which I think is probably VERY normal.

Biden's Presidency, and his own decline, in our household, and especially with my wife, has acted like a "Political sedative". Basically, we just didn't really care any more. These are our two choices? Really? If that's where we're at...I've got a lot more important things going on to worry about...wake me when its over...that was the mood in our house.

Then Biden dropped out. My wife sent me a text with a link to the news (that's actually how I first heard about it). That's literally the first political related link shes ever sent me. Since then, links and little convos have been happening between dozens of people in our little "village". And I've never seen my wife so excited, and engaged in politics. To the point where she was asking me who I thought would be Harris' best choice to win in the swing midwest states?!?! When I said she needs to get the nomination first...my wife was pretty indignant at the thought of her not being the nominee...and she's now fairly well versed in the process through the convention. I know my wife well enough to know that Harris lure is mainly a couple things 1)she's not Trump 2)how she looks and sounds when she talks. Like Trump for many MAGA voters, the specific words and content can be secondary. Its how she feels when she sees and hears Harris. 3)she's a vibrant, younger woman (relative to Trump/Biden). When I pushed her about some of the things that she has done in her past, some of the policy issues...and reminded her that her favorite POTUS was GWBush...because of "how good a man he is." She gave me "the look", and just said, she's running against Trump. And then went on to say..."I can't imagine all the crap she faced trying to do the things she's done."

So, my wife is currently all in on a Harris campaign. Me? I'm not nearly as sold. Some of her policy history, I don't jive with. I really don't jive with the current far left decisions, rhetoric, direction, etc... And Harris, as much as any other viable option right now for the Dems, seems to be more aligned with further left policies, words, and actions than most others.

But man...It’s hard to downplay the impact my wifes energy is having on me. And though I'm not really "on board" with Harris, I am about as engaged or excited to see how the nomination process unfolds as I have for any political process in my lifetime. For me, that's how bad the choice of Trump or Biden was going to be. And I'm wondering if this 24' election might have some similarities to 16', but in reverse. Meaning, I could see polling data showing Trump with a comfortable lead over Harris the next few months. But election night...a tidal wave of women voters, minority voters, etc... in all the key swing areas, and Harris dramatically outperforming polling data.

Many women have been extremely energized and politicized since the Roe v Wade reversal. That has been proven in election after election state wide. I’d imagine this will energize even more. Will be interesting.

 

[El Drado]

My family will be voting for Harris. I told my wife a couple weeks ago that i probably wouldn't vote at all, but that was when Biden was still in. Not that my vote matters living in IN.
I would bet trump wins though.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I'm not sure this required a new post. But it is interesting enough, to me, that I thought I'd get a discussion going on it.

For many years, politics in my household has been very, very much a back burner topic. My wife and I are both independent voters, and we rarely ever talk politics in any sort of depth. Trump has been a little bit of a lightning rod, at times. My wife has a pretty open dislike for him, which dated back well before he ran for President in 16. But even at that, I wouldn't say she has ever been someone that actively thinks about, studies, politics or candidates in general. She'll ask me..."Is there anyone I need to vote for tomorrow"...the day before an election. That sort of thing. Which I think is probably VERY normal.

Biden's Presidency, and his own decline, in our household, and especially with my wife, has acted like a "Political sedative". Basically, we just didn't really care any more. These are our two choices? Really? If that's where we're at...I've got a lot more important things going on to worry about...wake me when its over...that was the mood in our house.

Then Biden dropped out. My wife sent me a text with a link to the news (that's actually how I first heard about it). That's literally the first political related link shes ever sent me. Since then, links and little convos have been happening between dozens of people in our little "village". And I've never seen my wife so excited, and engaged in politics. To the point where she was asking me who I thought would be Harris' best choice to win in the swing midwest states?!?! When I said she needs to get the nomination first...my wife was pretty indignant at the thought of her not being the nominee...and she's now fairly well versed in the process through the convention. I know my wife well enough to know that Harris lure is mainly a couple things 1)she's not Trump 2)how she looks and sounds when she talks. Like Trump for many MAGA voters, the specific words and content can be secondary. Its how she feels when she sees and hears Harris. 3)she's a vibrant, younger woman (relative to Trump/Biden). When I pushed her about some of the things that she has done in her past, some of the policy issues...and reminded her that her favorite POTUS was GWBush...because of "how good a man he is." She gave me "the look", and just said, she's running against Trump. And then went on to say..."I can't imagine all the crap she faced trying to do the things she's done."

So, my wife is currently all in on a Harris campaign. Me? I'm not nearly as sold. Some of her policy history, I don't jive with. I really don't jive with the current far left decisions, rhetoric, direction, etc... And Harris, as much as any other viable option right now for the Dems, seems to be more aligned with further left policies, words, and actions than most others.

But man...Its hard to downplay the impact my wifes energy is having on me. And though I'm not really "on board" with Harris, I am about as engaged or excited to see how the nomination process unfolds as I have for any political process in my lifetime. For me, that's how bad the choice of Trump or Biden was going to be. And I'm wondering if this 24' election might have some similarities to 16', but in reverse. Meaning, I could see polling data showing Trump with a comfortable lead over Harris the next few months. But election night...a tidal wave of women voters, minority voters, etc... in all the key swing areas, and Harris dramatically outperforming polling data.

Thoughtful post.

Harris got nowhere when she ran in 2020, no money, no support, polling was bad for her in her home state. and she dropped before the first primary. I remember her spiel about Medicare for all during that time, she had no clue. Since then her cluelessness about many issues became more obvious.

But she isn’t Trump. I obviously have no idea bout your wife, but I think Harris would appeal to dependent-types. People who depend on others for support, and/or have unfulfilled needs. Harris’s constant theme seems like an appeal to those who just feel like they don’t matter and seek a champion.

 

[IUNorth]

Good initial post and good response. I agree that she is generating excitement at the moment but do think it will fade soon.

It will be interesting to see who she picks for VP. Could generate an additional bump. I also wonder if Beshear, Kelly, and Shapiro are all willing to accept an offer from her to seve as VP.

Gotta think some, if not all, of those are not gonna be willing to 1)be behind her on a ticket 2)risk losing as a VP candidate.

Its a VERY interesting dynamic. Should any of those guys challenge her, right now, as the POTUS candidate? And if they do, how hard should they challenge her? Some of the contrasts they'd want to highlight, could certainly end up being damaging to her general election campaign.

If I'm the DNC puppet master...I encourage a few of them to "run". But make sure ALL of them run on positive things, and don't tear each other down. If there's any sort of feeling or sentiment that any one other than Harris has any sort of flicker...then start pooling the machine resources behind them, and see what ends up happening. Even if that leads to a very contentious, and divided convention...who cares at this point. The safe, status quo process leads to someone that isn't overly popular, and is still unlikely to beat Trump (despite my views from another post I just made that I do think Harris is going to change the dynamics quite a bit). Why not have someone like Shapiro go hard after it, get as many Democrats engaged and excited as possible. And then hope that if Harris ends up being Shapiro, that then he'd accept a VP nomination, and they'd start to work together for a few month push to November.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Biden was trailing in 5 swing states where Democrat senate candidates are leading. That tells me that people were just looking for an alternative to Biden and now they have it.

 

[IUNorth]

Thoughtful post.

Harris got nowhere when she ran in 2020, no money, no support, polling was bad for her in her home state. and she dropped before the first primary. I remember her spiel about Medicare for all during that time, she had no clue. Since then her cluelessness about many issues became more obvious.

But she isn’t Trump. I obviously have no idea bout your wife, but I think Harris would appeal to dependent-types. People who depend on others for support, and/or have unfulfilled needs. Harris’s constant theme seems like an appeal to those who just feel like they don’t matter and seek a champion.

Interesting thought on Harris' appeal. I would say my wife share's some of that, or at least historically has, POLITICALLY... other areas, issues she cares about...she has a VERY strong personality and opinion (Italian blood...whew, she's a force of nature when she wants to be)... and something about Biden dropping out, and Harris being the likely replacement, has woken her up to the whole political process.

Valid questions though on whether it'll last until or through November??

 

[BadWakeboarder]

I'm not sure this required a new post. But it is interesting enough, to me, that I thought I'd get a discussion going on it.

For many years, politics in my household has been very, very much a back burner topic. My wife and I are both independent voters, and we rarely ever talk politics in any sort of depth. Trump has been a little bit of a lightning rod, at times. My wife has a pretty open dislike for him, which dated back well before he ran for President in 16. But even at that, I wouldn't say she has ever been someone that actively thinks about, studies, politics or candidates in general. She'll ask me..."Is there anyone I need to vote for tomorrow"...the day before an election. That sort of thing. Which I think is probably VERY normal.

Biden's Presidency, and his own decline, in our household, and especially with my wife, has acted like a "Political sedative". Basically, we just didn't really care any more. These are our two choices? Really? If that's where we're at...I've got a lot more important things going on to worry about...wake me when its over...that was the mood in our house.

Then Biden dropped out. My wife sent me a text with a link to the news (that's actually how I first heard about it). That's literally the first political related link shes ever sent me. Since then, links and little convos have been happening between dozens of people in our little "village". And I've never seen my wife so excited, and engaged in politics. To the point where she was asking me who I thought would be Harris' best choice to win in the swing midwest states?!?! When I said she needs to get the nomination first...my wife was pretty indignant at the thought of her not being the nominee...and she's now fairly well versed in the process through the convention. I know my wife well enough to know that Harris lure is mainly a couple things 1)she's not Trump 2)how she looks and sounds when she talks. Like Trump for many MAGA voters, the specific words and content can be secondary. Its how she feels when she sees and hears Harris. 3)she's a vibrant, younger woman (relative to Trump/Biden). When I pushed her about some of the things that she has done in her past, some of the policy issues...and reminded her that her favorite POTUS was GWBush...because of "how good a man he is." She gave me "the look", and just said, she's running against Trump. And then went on to say..."I can't imagine all the crap she faced trying to do the things she's done."

So, my wife is currently all in on a Harris campaign. Me? I'm not nearly as sold. Some of her policy history, I don't jive with. I really don't jive with the current far left decisions, rhetoric, direction, etc... And Harris, as much as any other viable option right now for the Dems, seems to be more aligned with further left policies, words, and actions than most others.

But man...Its hard to downplay the impact my wifes energy is having on me. And though I'm not really "on board" with Harris, I am about as engaged or excited to see how the nomination process unfolds as I have for any political process in my lifetime. For me, that's how bad the choice of Trump or Biden was going to be. And I'm wondering if this 24' election might have some similarities to 16', but in reverse. Meaning, I could see polling data showing Trump with a comfortable lead over Harris the next few months. But election night...a tidal wave of women voters, minority voters, etc... in all the key swing areas, and Harris dramatically outperforming polling data.

Your wife doesn’t sound politically independent. She sounds full Dem.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

First Prez/VP ballot since 1976 that won't have the name Bush, Clinton or Biden on it.

Don't jinx it.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

First Prez/VP ballot since 1976 that won't have the name Bush, Clinton or Biden on it.

That reminds me of something I remember from back in the 2008 cycle.

McCain/Palin was only the 2nd Republican ticket (1964 was the other one) since 1952(!) that didn't have the name Nixon, Bush, or Dole on it. That's a lot of races:

1952 Eisenhower/Nixon
1956 Eisenhower/Nixon
1960 Nixon/Lodge
1964.....
1968 Nixon/Agnew
1972 Nixon/Agnew
1976 Ford/Dole
1980 Reagan/Bush
1984 Reagan/Bush
1988 Bush/Quayle
1992 Bush/Quayle
1996 Dole/Kemp
2000 Bush/Cheney
2004 Bush/Cheney

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Your wife doesn’t sound politically independent. She sounds full Dem.

FWIW, the single biggest meaningful shift between 2016 and 2020 was independent voters.

As I recall, Trump won them by ~4 points in 2016, but lost them by ~13 points in 2020. So roughly a 17 point swing. It wasn't the only variable in the different outcome. But none were bigger, IMO.

To this point, Trump had been leading Biden among independents by mid/high single digits in most national polling. Keep an eye on that demographic.

 

[IUclover]

Many women have been extremely energized and politicized since the Roe v Wade reversal. That has been proven in election after election state wide. I’d imagine this will energize even more. Will be interesting.

My wife said Harris is pretty popular with the younger gen on social media. Any candidate other than Biden will bring more young peeps to the polls.

 

[hoot1]

My family will be voting for Harris. I told my wife a couple weeks ago that i probably wouldn't vote at all, but that was when Biden was still in. Not that my vote matters living in IN.
I would bet trump wins though.

Voting for me here in the Hoosier state is all about foregone conclusions.

In Marion County all the Dems win with the Pubs taking state and federal elections.

Exception being local school board elections. Even here the election was tainted by huge donations coming from PACs outside the state. Found myself voting against the outsiders just out of principle.

 

[IUNorth]

Your wife doesn’t sound politically independent. She sounds full Dem.

If she is, she sure breaks party lines fairly regularly... but could be?

 

[hoot1]

FWIW, the single biggest meaningful shift between 2016 and 2020 was independent voters.

As I recall, Trump won them by ~4 points in 2016, but lost them by ~13 points in 2020. So roughly a 17 point swing. It wasn't the only variable in the different outcome. But none were bigger, IMO.

To this point, Trump had been leading Biden among independents by mid/high single digits in most national polling. Keep an eye on that demographic.

Craze, great point.

Especially true in the nine swing states where Trump is polling well. Say this while recognizing pollsters (often rather unprofessional) don't necessarily have a firm grip when polling states. Who will turnout being a factor.

 

[IUNorth]

Craze, great point.

Especially true in the nine swing states where Trump is polling well. Say this while recognizing pollsters (often rather unprofessional) don't necessarily have a firm grip when polling states. Who will turnout being a factor.

Anyone have access to what the polling data said in the weeks and months leading up to 16...and then 20?

On of my thoughts is Trump dramatically out performed polling data in 16...wonder if that also related to independent voters polling data?

And then one of my guesses is Harris could also end up outperforming polling data.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Harris’ stance on immigration control is a joke.
Maybe she does win, opens the floodgates and we can welcome in our friends with Hamas? Roll out the red carpet and let them go on a killing spree.
Now, of course many of you aethiests and agnostics on the board here may need to warm up to Allah really quickly or they will be using your heads as the ball in a soccer tournament at Bill Armstrong Stadium.
Kamala acts like this is all circa year 1900 Ellis Island with people coming here that legitimately loved this country. That is far from the case now. Hell, we have enough people in the country that are born and bred in the U.S. that hate the country.

 

[IUclover]

Harris’ stance on immigration control is a joke.
Maybe she does win, opens the floodgates and we can welcome in our friends with Hamas? Roll out the red carpet and let them go on a killing spree.
Now, of course many of you aethiests and agnostics on the board here may need to warm up to Allah really quickly or they will be using your heads as the ball in a soccer tournament at Bill Armstrong Stadium.
Kamala acts like this is all circa year 1900 Ellis Island with people coming here that legitimately loved this country. That is far from the case now. Hell, we have enough people in the country that are born and bred in the U.S. that hate the country.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Thoughtful post.

Harris got nowhere when she ran in 2020, no money, no support, polling was bad for her in her home state. and she dropped before the first primary. I remember her spiel about Medicare for all during that time, she had no clue. Since then her cluelessness about many issues became more obvious.

But she isn’t Trump. I obviously have no idea bout your wife, but I think Harris would appeal to dependent-types. People who depend on others for support, and/or have unfulfilled needs. Harris’s constant theme seems like an appeal to those who just feel like they don’t matter and seek a champion.

Her appeal is to dependent types? Lol. That sounds a lot like Trump. People who feel they don’t matter and they are a victim. He and his supporters are great at playing the victim.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Harris’ stance on immigration control is a joke.
Maybe she does win, opens the floodgates and we can welcome in our friends with Hamas? Roll out the red carpet and let them go on a killing spree.
Now, of course many of you aethiests and agnostics on the board here may need to warm up to Allah really quickly or they will be using your heads as the ball in a soccer tournament at Bill Armstrong Stadium.
Kamala acts like this is all circa year 1900 Ellis Island with people coming here that legitimately loved this country. That is far from the case now. Hell, we have enough people in the country that are born and bred in the U.S. that hate the country.

Oh my. Ok…..

 

[IU_Hickory]

Harris’ stance on immigration control is a joke.
Maybe she does win, opens the floodgates and we can welcome in our friends with Hamas? Roll out the red carpet and let them go on a killing spree.
Now, of course many of you aethiests and agnostics on the board here may need to warm up to Allah really quickly or they will be using your heads as the ball in a soccer tournament at Bill Armstrong Stadium.
Kamala acts like this is all circa year 1900 Ellis Island with people coming here that legitimately loved this country. That is far from the case now. Hell, we have enough people in the country that are born and bred in the U.S. that hate the country.

Since conservatives are on board with religion in school, maybe Allah can be taught in all classrooms once muslims become the majority.

 

[IUNorth]

Her appeal is to dependent types? Lol. That sounds a lot like Trump. People who feel they don’t matter and they are a victim. He and his supporters are great at playing the victim.

Another interesting point. A big part of Trumps emergence and popularity growth was among those that felt disenfranchised by government.

To be fair to both sides, I think one way all candidates in all elections garner support is appealing to peoples sense of insecurities.

Trump did it. Harris may be doing it? Doesn't really apply to my wife, I don't think... but the concept might make sense.

I would be worried, if I were a MAGA type, on just how unpopular Trump is...and keep in mind nearly all the polling the last 6 months has been impacted by the belief that Biden was going to be the opponent. Up until relatively recently, most of the questions were actually whether Trump would survive as a candidate through all the indictments. Bidens very quick decline is what changed that narrative.

Once there's a clear singular opposition to Trump...I would be pretty surprised if the polls don't tighten considerably. And even then, I'm not sure the polls will be able to accurately predict how unlikeable Trump really is.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Since conservatives are on board with religion in school, maybe Allah can be taught in all classrooms once muslims become the majority.

Indiana actually has several Islamic schools that use the Choice Scholarship program.

I certainly have no issue with that, so long as the schools follow the same curricular and accreditation guidelines that all other schools are required to follow. In fact, federal law requires that state ed choice programs be religiously neutral.

Here's a link to one such Islamic school in Indy: Tawheed Islamic Academy

 

[mcmurtry66]

Her appeal is to dependent types? Lol. That sounds a lot like Trump. People who feel they don’t matter and they are a victim. He and his supporters are great at playing the victim.

Of course it is. Who do you think the cradle to grave benefits were intended to appeal to. Billionaires? Good grief

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

And even then, I'm not sure the polls will be able to accurately predict how unlikeable Trump really is.

Past elections aren't necessarily reliable guides to future ones. So this is a grain of salt thing.

But it's worth pointing out that Trump actually outperformed opinion polls in both of the elections he's been in. The concept of a "shy Trump voter" even became a topic of discussion.

Anyway, RCP average in 2016 was Clinton +3.2. Final result was Clinton +2.1.

RCP average in 2020 was Biden +7.2. Final result was Biden +4.5.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Anyone have access to what the polling data said in the weeks and months leading up to 16...and then 20?

On of my thoughts is Trump dramatically out performed polling data in 16...wonder if that also related to independent voters polling data?

And then one of my guesses is Harris could also end up outperforming polling data.

Here are the national polls leading up to 2016:

And here are the national polls leading up to 2020:

 

[IU_Hickory]

Indiana actually has several Islamic schools that use the Choice Scholarship program.

I certainly have no issue with that, so long as the schools follow the same curricular and accreditation guidelines that all other schools are required to follow. In fact, federal law requires that state ed choice programs be religiously neutral.

Here's a link to one such Islamic school in Indy: Tawheed Islamic Academy

Ryan Walters: Bible must be taught in schools, strict compliance expected

Walters sent a letter to state school districts on Thursday ordering them to incorporate the Bible “as an instructional support" for grades 5-12.

www.oklahoman.com

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Ryan Walters: Bible must be taught in schools, strict compliance expected

Walters sent a letter to state school districts on Thursday ordering them to incorporate the Bible “as an instructional support" for grades 5-12.

www.oklahoman.com

Yeah, that’s pretty obviously unconstitutional.

But religious school choice isn’t. It’s already been adjudicated. That’s the path states should take: just let parents choose where to use the dollars allocated for their children’s educations…and if they choose a religious school, that’s fine (as long as it meets sound state educational requirements). Or if they don’t want a religious school, that is also fine.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Yeah, that’s pretty obviously unconstitutional.

But religious school choice isn’t. It’s already been adjudicated. That’s the path states should take: just let parents choose where to use the dollars allocated for their children’s educations…and if they choose a religious school, that’s fine (as long as it meets sound state educational requirements). Or if they don’t want a religious school, that is also fine.

Religious schools should be private and private schools shouldn't be getting public funds.

That used to be what private school meant until the bastardization of the system and claiming it is about school choice.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Religious schools should be private and private schools shouldn't be getting public funds.

That used to be what private school meant until the bastardization of the system and claiming it is about school choice.

What would you say to the mother of a child in a shitty school district who wants to use her voucher to send her child to a better school, that happened to be Catholic?”

“Sorry, i’m Hickory and I say your child must attend the shit school, because I have mistaken beliefs about the constitution as it relates to school funding. But no worries, I’m advocating for more funding for this shit school. It won’t be able to help your kid, but somewhere down the line all these shit public schools that spend more per pupil than their private counterparts will turn it around, I have faith”

You’re a complete clown. You have no rational basis for your position.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Since conservatives are on board with religion in school, maybe Allah can be taught in all classrooms once muslims become the majority.

I’m down with that….although as a Christian, I’ll be at the receiving end of a Hamas beheading before they get that one implemented.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Religious schools should be private and private schools shouldn't be getting public funds.

That used to be what private school meant until the bastardization of the system and claiming it is about school choice.

Well, as a parent, you get to choose the option that you think is best for your kids and other parents are afforded the same choice for their kids.

I don’t see why public education dollars should be restricted to particular institutions. We’ve done this in higher ed for decades - and it’s been a positive thing that people can use Pell Grants, GI Bill, etc. just as much at Notre Dame as at IU or Purdue.

Anyway, this is the system we have here now. And it’s growing fast around the country.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Well, as a parent, you get to choose the option that you think is best for your kids and other parents are afforded the same choice for their kids.

I don’t public education dollars should be restricted to particular institutions. We’ve done this in higher ed for decades - and it’s been a positive thing that people can use Pell Grants, GI Bill, etc. just as much at Notre Dame as at IU or Purdue.

Anyway, this is the system we have here now. And it’s growing fast around the country.

Nothing has ever been fixed by taking away funds and that is exactly what the voucher system has done to public schools.

If someone wants to send their kid to a private, then it should be out of their pocket.

And if the voucher system bs spreads, we will be seeing k-12 cost as much as college or be even a worse pile of underfunded crap

 

[Thyrsis]

Well, as a parent, you get to choose the option that you think is best for your kids and other parents are afforded the same choice for their kids.

I don’t see why public education dollars should be restricted to particular institutions. We’ve done this in higher ed for decades - and it’s been a positive thing that people can use Pell Grants, GI Bill, etc. just as much at Notre Dame as at IU or Purdue.

Anyway, this is the system we have here now. And it’s growing fast around the country.

Deep thoughts. Could you even begin to explain the counterpoint to your deep thoughts?