something throughout the season that was noticeable was the decline in terms of linebacker play. It’s confusing as to why William Inge was switched to the special teams coordinator position. The special teams struggled and he was criticized in that role, but what he did for the linebackers was amazing. He took players like Marcus Olives, TJ Simmons, Scales and Covington and turned them into either solid college players or NFL players (Covington stayed on the Cowboys 53 man roster the whole season), in 2019 I’d love to see him return to the linebacker room because those guys need to be developed. It’s a question I haven’t seen asked, and I didn’t even notice it until recently.
Interesting question
- Thread starter Superstar84b
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Idk.....outside of Covington, I wouldn't say he turned anyone into anything. I think it is just the personnel. Scales, Oliver and Simmons played from the get go, and Simmons excluded (due to his injuries), they became better with experience. But I was never all the impressed with Oliver, and he certainly was not NFL caliber like people acted he was. The reason we struggle in LB play last year is because we started guys that were backups to Scales and Covington and they proved they were backups for a reason. We just need better players, and I'm hoping some of the freshmen we played will become that, or some of our future ones will.
I think Oliver is actually a great example of why Inge should be a LB coach. Oliver was a good college player that had limited physical gifts when compared to other more blessed LB’s in the NCAA. Because of that, I think he excelled in the position. Maybe he was more gifted on the mental side of football and that helped over come some of the short comings.... anyway, our LB play has been better with Inge as the position coach but I am sure he wants to expand his coaching experience and may be why he saw special teams
That’s a good point. Maybe CTA was making room for Wommack and trying to make an improvement in the ST that was badly needed but never materialized. Now that Wommack has moved up to DC he could put Inge back at LB? Could Inge also retain the ST tag but have some of the other coaches help him out there so he could also focus on LBs and not take a downgrade? It will be interesting to see what if any shuffling goes on after signing day.
I agree with this 100%. Oliver didn’t have the tools of someone like Ryan Shazier. But was highly effective at the college level. That was mostly due to Inge. Simmons is another example of a guy with limited physical tools, but was developed. Covington was a safety/QB so Inge turning him into an NFL LB was a miracle. I know that the special teams struggled and he’s fairly criticized for that, but I think he’s a solid position coach
If you got a guy who isn’t afraid to stick his nose in it, and he is always where he is suppose to be each play, then your going to have a successful position player. I don’t remember him being a tackle for loss guy, but he did stop plays when they ran to him....
Oliver and Scales were just really good together. Scales dropped off some when Oliver left. Covington had more upside but wasnt as Good as Oliver at this level.
One thing I'd like is consistency in tackling. Seems like one game we have a great tackling game, then the next we can't wrap up and RB/WR are getting YAC like crazy.
Yes the tackling was a little surprising last year for a CTA defense.
We just need better talent at LB position. Willis was not good at all and Jones was hurt most of the season leaving Freshman to play. What also hurt the LB's was not having a couple big DT to eat up space and get some double team's. We really missed Hoff this year. If i were going to reevaluate a position coach it might be Hagen that position has not preformed well the last 3 years.
Hoff was a decent player but Robinson had better stats 2 years ago. Overall our D Line has been without playmakers. Exciting to have Harris and Minor but then they were both out last year. Johnson has been good but we need some playmakers. Harris will help if he can stay healthy. It looks like we recruit DE's with quickness and hope they grow into DT's. Shocked we didn't see King at all this year as highly rated as he was. Wilson grew into a DT. King was 270 in August and Jones was 274. I want to see their size in March. We also need to get Harris in good shape.
Eh - LB play wasn't anything to write home about until Allen got here. Simmons - looked like Adonis, but not mobile enough to be effective every down. Oliver had a nose for the ball - maybe not the quickest but had a knack. Scales & Covington - awesome. I don't know enough to know if they were better under Allen because of the scheme he put them in, or because Inge "coached them up".
As others noted before LB play has to get better for this defense to be effective. I like a lot of the younger guys we played last year, and I think there's promise. But they may be a year away from being effective on an every down basis.
As others noted before LB play has to get better for this defense to be effective. I like a lot of the younger guys we played last year, and I think there's promise. But they may be a year away from being effective on an every down basis.
Yeah. That's the scary thing. A lot of these guys will just be sophomores next year. How much growth will they have? Will it be enough? We don't have a lot of juniors and seniors that will play. WR's and OL yes. Johnson at DT.
Oliver eclipsed 100 tackles in 2015 with Knorr as the coordinator. The line was good, but couldn’t even l8ne up in the right spot. Gifted, but not smart. It seems as if Inge had the LB’s trending upward.
IU had at least 2 frosh playing a lot of minutes. That never bodes well unless they are freak athletes.
This post reminded me of how inept our special teams were last year. I had blocked it from my memory. Any word on the coaching staff's approach to improving special teams?
Don't get me wrong - I like Inge and thought he did well. And Oliver was maybe our best LB when he was here - too bad he didn't stay one more season.
I just didn't really see an overall jump in any defensive play until Allen arrived.
oliver left after his jr year to turn pro. what a bad decision. some players should realize that their glory days will be limited to college and they should enjoy all 4 years. ahem, james blackmon, carsen edwards, marcus oliver, simmie cobbs, etc
since they cleaned house in green bay now would be a good time to start your coaching career. it's your destiny, luke. i'm sure your pops can get your foot in the door.
I would counter by say that even though 1st string LB play with Scales/Covington was perhaps the strength of the defense (maybe the team) in 2017, the biggest problem on the 2017 defense maybe was LB depth.
Willis/Jones struggled a lot which caused 1) bad things to happen when they were on the field subbing for Scales/Covington, 2) Scales/Covington staying on the field too much to limit issue #1 causing them to wear down in the 4th quarter causing bad things to happen.
I bring this up to show Inge was not a miracle worker. If you give credit to Inge for Scales/Covington/Oliver, then you also need to acknowledge that he couldn't get Willis/Jones to deliver any better than Wommack.
Yeah that guys comment is disappointing. I don’t come over here like, “oh I’m so smart and could coach”. I’m highly respectful of fans and love hearing the fans point of view which is why I joined the board. I have been supportive of Allen and I just like mentioning interesting points based on my experience. Inge is a great coach from what i saw (maybe not on special teams which is fair). I just find it curious that he isn’t coaching the linebackers but helped less talented guys succeed. I’m not someone who just posts to make the coaches feel good. That’s not my style. I just try to pose fair questions.
I enjoy your posts. You do not come across as someone trying to puff themselves up.
Tom
I am not disputing what you've said here . . . but it does offer an implication that Wommack hasn't been all that stellar as a position coach, and might raise a question about why Wommack was named DC.
Any thoughts about how to reconcile this?
Also, is IU going to hire an additional coach to replace Wommack? As has been suggested in other posts in this thread, that might be Inge . . . which would leave open the ST job . . .
. . . I feel like I'm playing with a sliding puzzle . . . .
Thought release said Womack was going to be DC and still coach LB’s. I assume Allen wants to better support Inge with ST vs replace him. That's fine but have some accountability this year, no more PSU debacles please.
They have their full complement of coaches allowed. They would have to let someone else go to hire another coach.
i was not being sarcastic. aren't you mark murphy's boy? you know, the president of the green bay packers? i highly respect your football input here as i learn a little more about the game. i genuinely think you would be a fine coach.
Robinson being hurt all year definitely hurt us. I was really hoping he would utilize the new rule of playing 4 games or less to take a redshirt, and come back for one more year. I know he is a really good student, in Kelley no less, so perhaps he wanted to get his after-football career going. But he had played in only 3 games; they could have held him out until the Purdue game and he would have been eligible. They REALLY should have considering he only played like 1 play in the first game back and then re-aggravated his knee in a game after that.
I agree with you and superstar84 ignores the poor LBs Inje left behind; IU had to play freshmen at LB or red-shirt freshmen to play. Coaching young players is a beginning of learning everything or physically ready for B1G ball. IU has recruited very good LBs coming in and in the 2018 class.
Haha he’s a solid friend. And I know of his dads background with the packers. Nothing but respect. I was actually with some old teammates this week who brought up murph. Haven’t been able to log on due to work. But respect the post and the sarcasm.
I only disagree because Covington was a very very marginal played who had to be developed. Willis was a 5th year guy. Jones was a 4th year guy. When you look at those guys under Inge, they made contributions early and developed into very solid players. The one guy who I can say came in “big ten ready” was possibly Scales but he was only around 208 pounds when he came in. With Inge I just have a hard time believing a 5th year guy and a 4th year guy would play that badly. I 100% agree with you if you’re referring to the younger players because I know McFadden was called into action and I think he will be good, James Miller was called into action and should be good, and Thomas Allen Jr could be good (or might move to DE and be solid). But there were experienced guys ahead of them who arguably performed worse than them. You had Jones running backwards on run plays. From my experience with Inge and CKW (although neither was my positions coach) they’d be ready to kick an LB off the team for something like that (not literally kicked off, but life would have been made miserable for them). I noticed that in the Minnesota game, yet Jones continued to be sent out on the field. That’s a complete change from what Inge taught the LBs. And that’s why I posed the question. I agree that some younger players may struggle, but a 4th and 5th year guy were the starters, and both were flat out worse than the young guys. It’s not as if Oliver, Simmons, Scales, or Covington were stars as true freshman, but I consider this season severely worse at linebacker because you had a 4th and 5th year guy playing worse than freshman. I don’t see that under Inge
Interesting Q and analysis indeed. Hate to get into the “politics” of things, but almost raises a question of “was Womack effective as LB coach?” If not, then why did he get promoted to DC? Answer would seemingly be “ abuse he’s Allen’s guy.”
Then begs questions raised by some of “did Allen Jr play more due to that?”
I’d ask could Womack just be DC and move Inge back to LB and then with extra coach slot (that think iU would still have) could be TE/Special Teams Coordinator and have the “right people on there right seats on the bus.”
I will hope for the best, coaching harmony and most importantly, that the results on the field, playing the best talent we can get on the field, will have an outstanding year!
Then begs questions raised by some of “did Allen Jr play more due to that?”
I’d ask could Womack just be DC and move Inge back to LB and then with extra coach slot (that think iU would still have) could be TE/Special Teams Coordinator and have the “right people on there right seats on the bus.”
I will hope for the best, coaching harmony and most importantly, that the results on the field, playing the best talent we can get on the field, will have an outstanding year!
There is no extra coach slot available. They only lost DeBord and filled that slot. They could move Inge back to LBs and let him keep the ST coordinator role but add others to help there in the various different teams.
I'd rather let (young) Womack just focus 100% on being DC, big job in itself. Let Inge to LB again and "head" Special Teams, but with some of those duties sliced off to others. Think that would be useful.
I have similar questions. Coaches are human. They have biases. Sometimes they select their guys. But for all we know, Womack is a defensive whiz and will do a great job. Only time will tell. And I can’t knock them for playing Tom Allen jr. because the 4th and 5th year guy didn’t step up. Hell, I fault Womack for not benching them and playing the younger guys more. Jr. appears to have a good work-ethic and at least not run backwards on run plays like Willis and Jones. I know he’s not the fastest guy, but I would’ve rather put him in the game along with McFadden and Miller. Only time will tell if Womack was selected due to him being Allen’s guy. I’ll give him a fair shot. The most impressive coach to me on the defensive staff is Kasey Teegardin from my experience. When he was a GA a few players asked on the sidelines if he was a new co-defensive coordinator. That’s how he carried himself. He improved my knowledge of the game better than anyone else on the staff in my time at IU. Just from my experience, I’d make him the DC.
McFadden was injured and out for much of the season, and I may be wrong, but I thought McFadden played outside linebacker (for the first half of the season, at least) rather than on the inside where Allen plays...
I didn't see any favoritism.
All that said, I think Allen might be better off attempting put on 20 pounds of muscle so as to move to DE...
Either way, without consistent, "All Big Ten" level production from him at any position he plays they'll always be those who'll try to bring up the favoritism angle...
Yea you would have to slice it up he could not manage both...Lat year special teams was awful. Maybe CTA should have went after and experienced DC and handled special teams and head coaching duties. Gary Barnett used to do that and always had excellent special teams!
McFadden played the weakside linebacker position and middle at times. Really if you know one, you should know both. But I agree. Tom Allen jr worked hard and I don’t think he played due to favoritism. I truly believe he played out of necessity because the older guys didn’t get it done. I also agree that he will probably move to DE in the future. He reminds me of a Ryan Phillis type player. Slow LB, fairly quick DE.
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