said that they were upset because some players gave up, and it seemed like that was OK. We should have beaten Cincy. Had 3 HUGE penalties. 2 resulted in TD's after we had stopped them and 1 let them take 3 off the board after a field goal and score a TD, plus a fumble on their 2 yard line. I thought it obvious we were as good or a better team but just blew it. We had debilitating injuries as the season rolled on, but If we played to most of the the potential shown that day, IU should have at least 2 or 3 more games. I was at the Rutgers game where a less-than-mediocre team beat the snot out of IU. And it was obvious that they were just playing harder that the IU players. So I agree with Jones and the other pissed vets. What I don't get is that if this was so obvious to the other players and people like me sitting in the stands, Why didn't CTA and the other coaches see this. From the article, it seemed like he was surprised as he asked for specific examples of players loafing. From the previous season, it seemed like the big deal was that his players played hard for him.
Indystar article in paper about Cam Jones and other vets calling for a meeting after puke loss
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The meeting with coach Allen let him let coaches go along with some players. He cleaned house and brought in better players, so I want to see how the new coaches and players do this year. If the right moves work, we could see a much better season this year. We also brought in some players with more years to play at IU.
This meeting led to Coach Allen letting coaches go? Which ones, other than Sheridan?
There were reports he told Warren and Peoples they needed find new jobs.
And this is all we have are reports with various levels of accuracy. Anyone here claiming that they know otherwise is just making stuff up.
Indeed, because they're gone. Obviously discharge orders were issued.
It’s not at all obvious. We cleaned house to a degree (players and coaches), but the house cleaned us, as well. Really concerning that Coach Allen was admittedly unaware of what the players had to point out to him. That’s not good, but hopefully there’s a reset.
Let’s just hope it was a very important learning experience for CTA. He is still new into is coaching tenure at this level and I’m sure he will be a better coach for it.
I had the same thoughts after reading the article. CTA is making $5 million / year and he needs a PowerPoint developed by the players to understand what went wrong with the season? There were any number of things that happened during the season (e.g. multiple in season defections, questionable effort resulting in weekly a$$ kickings, etc.) that should have led CTA to search for answers during the season, yet it took this power point to open his eyes, I know they are trying to create a narrative where player leadership has come in to save the day, but by doing so it seriously calls into question CTAs ability to lead.
I too was left wondering what impact this had on all of the coaching changes.
I too was left wondering what impact this had on all of the coaching changes.
Help me out here.
How do you know that CTA needed "a PowerPoint developed by the players to understand what went wrong with the season" ?
It was likely a reference to this passage from the Indy Star article:
“Tuttle and Cam Jones put together a presentation for a players-only meeting and Tuttle was put in charge of making sure workouts operated at a high level and Jones was put in charge of off-field issues.”
Doesn't support his contention. That says it was players only.
I figured it was this quote from the Indy Star
"“I wanted names,” Allen said. “I wanted to know who they thought wasn’t all in. I wanted the honest truth about everything"
As I stated in that thread, CTA said he wanted to know who THEY (Players) thought wasn't all in. That doesn't mean he had no clue who wasn't all in as some have speculated. If I was coach I could see wanting the players input before I formulated a plan to go forward.
Seems very clear from both Allen’s comments and the player’s that Coach Allen wasn’t aware of what was going on. If he needed names, it was because he didn’t realize what the players believed was so evident. His responses make that clear. It happens. Hopefully, there’s a reset.
Exactly. This whole narrative that Allen was clueless is stoopid. This was immediately after the close of the season. What he was given was the perfect opportunity to gain specific, unfiltered insight into what his leadership players felt needed addressed. That may or may not have been in synch with his own thinking, but to assume he didn't know what was going on is absurd.
I guess we disagree. I think it is only clear to you because of your interpretation of the quotes.
You take it to mean he NEEDED the players to educate him on who was not in.
For me, it could be more like, I (CTA) know who I think is not all in but I want the players input to see who they think is not all in.
IMO, with the available information, either is a reasonable conclusion.
EXCEPT, unless the coaches never talk among themselves, the WHOLE staff would have to be clueless. Very hard for me to buy.
We have no idea what Allen did and did not know. Kudos to the team leaders.
Agree that several interpretations are possible. For anyone who saw the team play in person, there was a fair amount of conflict between players and players and coaches and, in at least one case, coaches. This was definitely the case as the season wore on and there were several occasions when people had to be separated. Effort was at least part of the underlying cause in a couple of the incidents I saw. One prominent player’s father made a pointed comment five feet from where we were sitting during the Rutgers game, and it was pretty jarring. I think Coach Allen was surprised by what a few of the players relayed to him, and his comments very much seemed to echo that reality, but I see how and why others might see that differently. Thought it was interesting that Allen said he noticed something on the summer and recalled it later in the season when we were already well into the ditch. Would be telling to see how he might approach that differently, given last season‘s outcome.
I just wonder how bringing in so many portal players into starting positions affected team chemistry.
There were a lot of questions during the season why starters the previous season weren't seeing the field as much.
Oh, I get it, they got the idea of seeking new employment through osmosis or mental telepathy.
how could he possibly not know what was going on? he's the head coach for cryin out loud. he should know and have complete control over every aspect of the program. if we fans could see a problem, why couldn't he?
Fans could not, but it makes for a good narrative if you need to trash RevCoachLEO as they call him.
Assistant coaches regularly change jobs. Quite a few of them do so to elevate their careers, work with former colleagues, or live in a desired part of the country. They don’t all get pushed out. We just hired five new guys . . . Do you think they all got fired from their previous jobs?
Definitely concerning that he seemed to be oblivious to what was happening. Like I said, I saw the sideline conflict several times, as did anyone who actually attended games, and one high profile player‘s dad mentioned it to several people nearby. It was clear that the players needed to share things with him of which he was unaware, likely along with some other coaches. Crap like that happens when you lose, and you lose when crap like that happens. We’re hardly the first program to experience stuff like this, and anyone who played organized sports knows how this can easily infiltrate a team. Hope the rest is successful.
I applaud the players for being leaders and addressing a crappy season. That does not, however, point to Coach not knowing what the issues were.
Was he aware of the issues……I have no idea but the players taking action doesn’t answer that question one way or the other.
Who knows if Allen had any idea as to which players were checked out. If I was in Allen’s shoes, and felt I 100% knew who had checked out, I would still ask the players that came to me who they thought had checked out. I would much rather have Allen ask the players for their insight rather than have him be so self-assured of his opinions that he did not value the players input.
Neither does anyone else here But it is far more entertaining if you just make up a story that fits a narrative.
Had Allen gone to the players, I would agree. But they went to him and they seemed to have the most urgency about the situation, which suggests they had insight that he lacked. Regardless, 2021 is history and we need to rest for 2022.
Go Hoosiers.
You are right it is history but if I was Allen I would not have gone to Tuttle, as an example, and say “hey I think xyz is checked out what do you think?” Rather than speak to Tuttle I would speak directly to the players that I thought had checked out.
On the other hand if I was Allen and Tuttle came to me saying some players have checked out I would ask him for specific names, rather than assuming, just as Allen did.
I’m sure there’s more to this than we all know, but Allen‘s own words make it clear that his response to the player comments was to ask for specific names. Never did he say that he agreed that some players weren’t “all in”, only that that was the view some players had of their teammates. Allen’s comments make it seem as though he was surprised by this, which is the troubling issue. Anyone who watched the team could tell exactly that. Perhaps Allen could, too, but his comments didn’t suggest that. I like TA and hope he can build our program into a winning one, and I get that some people want to shield him from even a hint of criticism, but we went 2-10 and 0-9, and many of our losses were blow outs.. And this was a team Allen thought would be really good and compete for a Big 10 championship.
On to 2022.
Personally, I thought Tuttle was mentally checked out himself. Some of those throws were so bad, you’re head isn’t possibly in the game when you continue to do that. Slide #46 in the PowerPoint is how not to throw a pick-6.
Perhaps if we actually followed IU, attended games, talked to player parents, saw all the interactions, played organized sports, attended IU, followed and understood football, and were brand new to the board having never been here before…we too would understand how terrible the coaches, players, fans, AD and facilities are.
Tuttle was really banged up. We were never healthy at quarterback last year. Not sure how we didn’t see how vulnerable we were there.
Speculation piled on top of conjecture piled on top of guesswork with a touch of divination thrown in.
In other words, you have no idea.
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“A tough of divination” isn’t needed to know that the players went to the coach after we went 0-9 in the Big 10 by mostly lopsided scores and told him some guys weren’t all in in. Allen was caught off guard and asked directly who that was. He said so in the article. I get what some fans want to do here, but it’s difficult to make sense of it. We really do have the program we demand.
You know a guy is completely full of it when he jumps directly on the typo/auto correct error...
🙄
Just curious Kern County, er, Jackskip23..., what is it you would have the fans "demand" to make the program better...???
With your voluminous football background and insider knowledge of the program itself this bit of information should be gold (or more appropriately..., black & old gold)...
"Some fans" are collectively holding their breath waiting for your next utterance on the topic..
Allen was caught off guard?? So you were present at that meeting and saw his reaction?
Where does it say that he was caught off guard?
I corrected my typo. I would hate for you to speculate as to the reason that happened. Maybe I was caught off guard.
And divination is what you are practicing, even by your own words.
"Allen’s comments make it seem"
"but his comments didn’t suggest that"
It's ok to speculate but don't present as fact or "it was clear". It is your opinion backed up by almost no facts.
How long has he been HC?
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