ADVERTISEMENT

Illinois public school system is broken

  • Thread starter anon_6hv78pr714xta
  • Start date
Experienced kindergarten teachers I talk to say that kindergarten has basically become 1st/2nd grade. Old time kindergarten school marms remember a time when their day was filled with instilling a joy in learning and a love of school. Now, it's all about scores. and standardized test results...yes, at the K level. I really do wonder who was behind such widespread changes in that framework.

Boomer parents that decided that college was the only option. If you didn't start the race on time, you were going to be left behind and headed to Western Kentucky or Western Illinois instead of a B1G school.
 
  • Like
Reactions: larsIU
Boomer parents that decided that college was the only option. If you didn't start the race on time, you were going to be left behind and headed to Western Kentucky or Western Illinois instead of a B1G school.
Probably part of it. Also, business leaders on CofCs who complained about graduates not being ready for the workforce. This lead to schools being forced to adopt a business model of education, where only the bottom line matters. This is just a modern version of the factory model school.

To @BradStevens, who used the word "comfortable", I would call that a gross oversimplification. Kids should feel the joy of learning new things, not satisfaction with meeting the quarterly projections. When kids enter kindergarten, they are eager and energetic. From what I understand, just their natural curiosity is enough to carry them to pretty impressive growth levels during the year, regardless of the school setting. But by the time they reach 3rd grade, their joy of discovery, eagerness to learn, and passion for knowledge has been beaten out of them. By 3rd grade, they are clock punchers and paper pushers. Everything is governed by a top-down pacing guide, which allows for learning that is miles wide, but about an inch deep (depth would take time for discovery, btw) with little time for serendipitous learning opportunities. The pacing guide, of course, is based on state standards, which are measured by standardized tests produced by multi-billion dollar companies.
I'm surprised schools do as well as they do.
 
Probably part of it. Also, business leaders on CofCs who complained about graduates not being ready for the workforce. This lead to schools being forced to adopt a business model of education, where only the bottom line matters. This is just a modern version of the factory model school.

To @BradStevens, who used the word "comfortable", I would call that a gross oversimplification. Kids should feel the joy of learning new things, not satisfaction with meeting the quarterly projections. When kids enter kindergarten, they are eager and energetic. From what I understand, just their natural curiosity is enough to carry them to pretty impressive growth levels during the year, regardless of the school setting. But by the time they reach 3rd grade, their joy of discovery, eagerness to learn, and passion for knowledge has been beaten out of them. By 3rd grade, they are clock punchers and paper pushers. Everything is governed by a top-down pacing guide, which allows for learning that is miles wide, but about an inch deep (depth would take time for discovery, btw) with little time for serendipitous learning opportunities. The pacing guide, of course, is based on state standards, which are measured by standardized tests produced by multi-billion dollar companies.
I'm surprised schools do as well as they do.
I used the word "comfortable" in an inclusive, touchy-feely way I don't think many would disagree with--as in, the kids should feel like they belong, no matter their race, creed, income level, or ability level.

Your narrative of bright young minds having the joy of learning beat out of them sounds like it is a Pink Floyd song or a great commercial for Montessori schools. It sounds great, but the data Fryer talks about shows that assessment is very important (I can't imagine how anyone could reasonably dispute this), along with work, feedback, and small group learning.

My district uses the "miles wide, inch deep" slogan a lot to talk about what they are combatting, but I find it an empty slogan. If you have a set of material you think should NOT be taught, let's discuss it. But the fact is, we will always have a set of material we want kids to learn in school year and we should have benchmarks.

Also, going "deep" with subject matter in K-5 grade doesn't make that much sense. I've heard that used to defend the fact that my kid spent 1/2 of 2nd grade learning 10 different addition "strategies." My son could add well in Kindergarten and when we asked for different material, they said no, we are teaching "deep" addition strategies. So I paid a bunch of money to send him to Mathnasium so he could learn at his own pace.
 
I used the word "comfortable" in an inclusive, touchy-feely way I don't think many would disagree with--as in, the kids should feel like they belong, no matter their race, creed, income level, or ability level.

Your narrative of bright young minds having the joy of learning beat out of them sounds like it is a Pink Floyd song or a great commercial for Montessori schools. It sounds great, but the data Fryer talks about shows that assessment is very important (I can't imagine how anyone could reasonably dispute this), along with work, feedback, and small group learning.

My district uses the "miles wide, inch deep" slogan a lot to talk about what they are combatting, but I find it an empty slogan. If you have a set of material you think should NOT be taught, let's discuss it. But the fact is, we will always have a set of material we want kids to learn in school year and we should have benchmarks.

Also, going "deep" with subject matter in K-5 grade doesn't make that much sense. I've heard that used to defend the fact that my kid spent 1/2 of 2nd grade learning 10 different addition "strategies." My son could add well in Kindergarten and when we asked for different material, they said no, we are teaching "deep" addition strategies. So I paid a bunch of money to send him to Mathnasium so he could learn at his own pace.
I think, for the most part, we are in the same ballpark, but you are coming from a different place (Illinois) than me.
I have no problem with assessments, benchmarks, etc. My problem has always been the diminishment of informal, quick assessments, and the rise of formal, standardized tests as the be all of educational focus. I don't remember taking such high level, high stakes tests until the ACT/SAT...and teachers knew who needed help and in what areas, mainly through observation and interaction, and maybe a short quiz.
Pearson, Houghton-Mifflin, and McGraw-Hill have made billions on this whole testing boom. I wonder if they have a heavy lobbying presence?
 
  • Like
Reactions: anon_6hv78pr714xta
By and large the education system needs some tweaking, I agree, but is it that bad?
If things are so bad, why don't we offer something that could improve the situation? Personally, I think we should suggest if we criticize, so my suggestion is not to give so much homework. All teachers should understand that we can't just physically do a lot of work in a short time. I personally used a writing service: https://samploon.com/free-essays/overcoming-obstacles/ which helped me to study better. and here you can just pick up a lot of interesting new information about different problems and their solutions. It is simple and easy for a student. We should pay more attention to what is offered to us, not to what is criticized. Maybe then everything will be much better.
 
Last edited:
They have a choice. But taxpayer money has no business funding private schools
Why?

Taxpayer money funds private doctors. Taxpayer money gets used to fund Planned Parenthood. We throw tax payer money at individual corporations for any number of things ("Green" energy anyone?)

So why is the public school system, particularly where it is failing, the outlier? Government can pick winners and losers in the private sector but it can't fund its competition. Our education system has the same complaints against it that you all use for the medical system. Expensive as hell with piss poor results when compared to our peers. That fact is irrefutable.
 
I used the word "comfortable" in an inclusive, touchy-feely way I don't think many would disagree with--as in, the kids should feel like they belong, no matter their race, creed, income level, or ability level.

Your narrative of bright young minds having the joy of learning beat out of them sounds like it is a Pink Floyd song or a great commercial for Montessori schools. It sounds great, but the data Fryer talks about shows that assessment is very important (I can't imagine how anyone could reasonably dispute this), along with work, feedback, and small group learning.

My district uses the "miles wide, inch deep" slogan a lot to talk about what they are combatting, but I find it an empty slogan. If you have a set of material you think should NOT be taught, let's discuss it. But the fact is, we will always have a set of material we want kids to learn in school year and we should have benchmarks.

Also, going "deep" with subject matter in K-5 grade doesn't make that much sense. I've heard that used to defend the fact that my kid spent 1/2 of 2nd grade learning 10 different addition "strategies." My son could add well in Kindergarten and when we asked for different material, they said no, we are teaching "deep" addition strategies. So I paid a bunch of money to send him to Mathnasium so he could learn at his own pace.
It's great when there is an opportunity to change the educational institution. For any reason and for any purpose. But unfortunately, I faced such a problem when moving to another country. The attitude towards foreign children was different and it was considered normal when my son was placed below others. But unfortunately, I couldn't do anything. And I can only hope for the ability of my son and that he will cope with everything. And support him as much as possible in turn.
I also try to support him in completing assignments and hope that his performance will improve over time. I realized that the most important thing is the uniqueness and originality in the preparation of articles https://fixgerald.com/plagiarism-checker-for-students And this source helps me check his work for uniqueness. I think that this will help improve the quality and make them more unique.
 
Last edited:
  • Sad
Reactions: Lucy01
Hi all. Guys, the topic of schooling is sore for me. The fact is that my academic performance was at a low level and I had to endure emotional abuse. And it so happened that I took anxiety and low self-esteem into adulthood. Now I turn to https://ca.calmerry.com/emotional-abuse-therapy/ And emotional abuse therapy has been a lifeline for me. This is the type of treatment that fits my traumatic experience. These professionals used a specific approach that helped me overcome my past as a victim. I am very grateful to them. Hope this will be helpful for someone.
 
Last edited:
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT