If race is a social construct, can you change it?

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Some people think so.

Inside the online world of people who think they can change their race

Practitioners of “race change to another,” or RCTA, purport to be able to manifest physical changes in their appearance and even their genetics to truly become a different race.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Some people think so.

Inside the online world of people who think they can change their race

Practitioners of “race change to another,” or RCTA, purport to be able to manifest physical changes in their appearance and even their genetics to truly become a different race.

www.nbcnews.com

I think the evidence is pretty strong that the answer is "no." And I'm not really clear on why you phrased the question the way you did. It seems to imply that you should be able to change something that's a social construct, but I don't see any reason why someone should be able to do that necessarily.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

I think the evidence is pretty strong that the answer is "no." And I'm not really clear on why you phrased the question the way you did. It seems to imply that you should be able to change something that's a social construct, but I don't see any reason why someone should be able to do that necessarily.

That's why I did it. To tease out that issue.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

That's why I did it. To tease out that issue.

BTW, your article isn't even talking about social constructs. It's talking about people who believe they can actually change their genotype and phenotype as they relate to race-related characteristics.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

BTW, your article isn't even talking about social constructs. It's talking about people who believe they can actually change their genotype and phenotype as they relate to race-related characteristics.

I thought this section did?

Race as a construct​

Experts agree race is not genetic. But they contend that even though race is a cultural construct, it is impossible to change your race because of the systemic inequalities inherent to being born into a certain race.

David Freund, a historian of race and politics and an associate professor at the University of Maryland, College Park, corroborates the idea that a “biological race” does not exist. What we know today as “race” is a combination of inherited characteristics and cultural traditions passed down through generations, he said.

In addition, Freund said, the modern concept of race is inseparable from the systemic racial hierarchy hundreds of years in the making. Simply put, changing races is not possible, because “biological races” themselves are not real.

Freund added that the idea of changing one’s race operates differently depending on a person’s racial background and that white people who seek to “transition” to other races can often sidestep the harms of racism.

Kevin Nadal, a professor of psychology at City University of New York, said: “There is a privilege in being able to change your race or to say that you’re changing your race. There are many people who would be unable to ever change their race. Particularly, Black people in this country would be unable to say all of a sudden ‘I’m white’ and be treated with the same privileges that white people have.”

Certain people of color throughout history have been able to “pass” as white to survive. Walter Francis White, the son of two enslaved people, for example, used his ability to blend in as “white” to champion civil rights for African Americans as the leader of the NAACP. But most people of color are not afforded the same opportunities.

RCTA and transracialism — which came to the forefront because of controversial figures like Rachel Dolezal — have been compared to being transgender. However, psychologists and activists push back against comparisons.

Tiq Milan, a Black transgender activist and writer, said it is a disservice to transgender people to compare the two. Race historically emerged as a social construct to establish a racial hierarchy with the white race at the top, whereas variances in gender identity have existed for thousands of years, he said.

“When it comes to who we are as racialized people, it is how we present to the world, but it’s also how people treat you,” Milan said. “It’s not just putting on the hair and the makeup and talking and walking [in] a kind of way. That is fetishizing, and it’s objectifying, and it reduces the beautiful and complicated cultures of people of color.”

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I thought this section did?

Race as a construct​

Experts agree race is not genetic. But they contend that even though race is a cultural construct, it is impossible to change your race because of the systemic inequalities inherent to being born into a certain race.

David Freund, a historian of race and politics and an associate professor at the University of Maryland, College Park, corroborates the idea that a “biological race” does not exist. What we know today as “race” is a combination of inherited characteristics and cultural traditions passed down through generations, he said.

In addition, Freund said, the modern concept of race is inseparable from the systemic racial hierarchy hundreds of years in the making. Simply put, changing races is not possible, because “biological races” themselves are not real.

Freund added that the idea of changing one’s race operates differently depending on a person’s racial background and that white people who seek to “transition” to other races can often sidestep the harms of racism.

Kevin Nadal, a professor of psychology at City University of New York, said: “There is a privilege in being able to change your race or to say that you’re changing your race. There are many people who would be unable to ever change their race. Particularly, Black people in this country would be unable to say all of a sudden ‘I’m white’ and be treated with the same privileges that white people have.”

Certain people of color throughout history have been able to “pass” as white to survive. Walter Francis White, the son of two enslaved people, for example, used his ability to blend in as “white” to champion civil rights for African Americans as the leader of the NAACP. But most people of color are not afforded the same opportunities.

RCTA and transracialism — which came to the forefront because of controversial figures like Rachel Dolezal — have been compared to being transgender. However, psychologists and activists push back against comparisons.

Tiq Milan, a Black transgender activist and writer, said it is a disservice to transgender people to compare the two. Race historically emerged as a social construct to establish a racial hierarchy with the white race at the top, whereas variances in gender identity have existed for thousands of years, he said.

“When it comes to who we are as racialized people, it is how we present to the world, but it’s also how people treat you,” Milan said. “It’s not just putting on the hair and the makeup and talking and walking [in] a kind of way. That is fetishizing, and it’s objectifying, and it reduces the beautiful and complicated cultures of people of color.”

Oops. I guess I didn't read far enough.

That section looks like it was written by people who don't have the ability to see anything outside of a particular narrow context.

I would argue that you can't change your race for the simple reason that society doesn't allow you to change your race. Is it a social construct? Sure. But as a social construct, it is also imposed upon you by society. Society decides who is white, who is black, etc. And right now, society isn't too keen on allowing people to slip out of what they were assigned and into something else. It has nothing to do with systemic inequalities. It's just the way race works. You can pass as another race, but you can't be another race.

But then, I'm no expert. It all just seems pretty obvious to me, though.

 

[IUINSB]

I would argue that you can't change your race for the simple reason that society doesn't allow you to change your race. Is it a social construct? Sure. But as a social construct, it is also imposed upon you by society. Society decides who is white, who is black, etc. And right now, society isn't too keen on allowing people to slip out of what they were assigned and into something else. It has nothing to do with systemic inequalities. It's just the way race works. You can pass as another race, but you can't be another race.

But then, I'm no expert. It all just seems pretty obvious to me, though.

Watch out, GOAT, the transphobes will be here to argue that point.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Watch out, GOAT, the transphobes will be here to argue that point.

It's a worthwhile comparison, I think. It should at least be a fruitful exercise to explain why the two aren't alike.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

It's a worthwhile comparison, I think. It should at least be a fruitful exercise to explain why the two aren't alike.

They are both alike and not alike. Pretty much all of society agrees that you can't change race, and if you get caught passing, you get the Rachel Dolezal treatment. Gender, though, society seems to be developing a fissure. Some accept, some don't. We have some posters here who go out of their way to use old pronouns when talking about trans people, for example. The portion of society represented by those posters don't accept a change in gender.

And even those who do, I'm not sure they accept it whole-heartedly. I mean, how many liberal straight cis males who claim to accept that "trans women are women" would willingly bang a trans woman? I don't have any idea what the number is, but I'd bet all the money I own its significantly less than 100%.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

They are both alike and not alike. Pretty much all of society agrees that you can't change race, and if you get caught passing, you get the Rachel Dolezal treatment. Gender, though, society seems to be developing a fissure. Some accept, some don't. We have some posters here who go out of their way to use old pronouns when talking about trans people, for example. The portion of society represented by those posters don't accept a change in gender.

And even those who do, I'm not sure they accept it whole-heartedly. I mean, how many liberal straight cis males who claim to accept that "trans women are women" would willingly bang a trans woman? I don't have any idea what the number is, but I'd bet all the money I own its significantly less than 100%.

But why does society think one is OK and another not? Aren't you glossing over the underlying reasoning here?

I agree with you on your bet. I'd go further: by definition, if you are a cis straight (aren't those two terms identical? IDK) male, you aren't banging a trans woman.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

But why does society think one is OK and another not? Aren't you glossing over the underlying reasoning here?

I agree with you on your bet. I'd go further: by definition, if you are a cis straight (aren't those two terms identical? IDK) male, you aren't banging a trans woman.

No, cis is about your own identity re: sex/gender, straight is about your sexuality. They aren't identical.

I don't know why society views the two things differently, but it clearly does. At least to an extent.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Oops. I guess I didn't read far enough.

That section looks like it was written by people who don't have the ability to see anything outside of a particular narrow context.

I would argue that you can't change your race for the simple reason that society doesn't allow you to change your race. Is it a social construct? Sure. But as a social construct, it is also imposed upon you by society. Society decides who is white, who is black, etc. And right now, society isn't too keen on allowing people to slip out of what they were assigned and into something else. It has nothing to do with systemic inequalities. It's just the way race works. You can pass as another race, but you can't be another race.

But then, I'm no expert. It all just seems pretty obvious to me, though.

Rachel Dolezal and Shaun King say hello

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

No, cis is about your own identity re: sex/gender, straight is about your sexuality. They aren't identical.

I don't know why society views the two things differently, but it clearly does. At least to an extent.

I think the use of the term is a bit silly, but does anyone know why Musk, et al. consider it a slur? Can someone steel man their argument?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I think the use of the term is a bit silly, but does anyone know why Musk, et al. consider it a slur? Can someone steel man their argument?

Cis? It's not silly at all. "Cis" is just the antonym of "trans" in Latin. As in Cisalpine Gaul and Transalpine Gaul. Anything that has a trans-something will have a cis-something, too.

If someone considers it a slur, it's because they're an idiot.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Cis? It's not silly at all. "Cis" is just the antonym of "trans" in Latin. As in Cisalpine Gaul and Transalpine Gaul. Anything that has a trans-something will have a cis-something, too.

If someone considers it a slur, it's because they're an idiot.

Not quite steel manning, but I get where you're coming from.

 

[larsIU]

I mean, how many liberal straight cis males who claim to accept that "trans women are women" would willingly bang a trans woman?

Where's toasted when you need him? I think he'd know.

 

[hoot1]

Some people think so.

Inside the online world of people who think they can change their race

Practitioners of “race change to another,” or RCTA, purport to be able to manifest physical changes in their appearance and even their genetics to truly become a different race.

www.nbcnews.com

Brad, great question.

Have a friend who loves to refer to himself as being Irish only to find out he is of multiple European descents and not all that Irish. Undaunted by this discovery, he was raised thinking he was Irish and is determined to continue thinking of himself as being Irish.

Got to believe, there are many Blacks, who similar to my friend, are proud to be part of a race which can be traced back to slavery. They are proud of a "race" which has overcome many obstacles. Obstacles which made them stronger in terms of facing adversity. Also like my friend, some may find out someday that they are more white than black with their dark skin being misleading.

In terms of the social construct changing, in recent years the social construct attitudes regarding gays has changed in my view. Given this, it would seem possible for attitudes about certain "races" could change. So the social construct about there being races persists while attitudes about each race could change.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Cis? It's not silly at all. "Cis" is just the antonym of "trans" in Latin. As in Cisalpine Gaul and Transalpine Gaul. Anything that has a trans-something will have a cis-something, too.

If someone considers it a slur, it's because they're an idiot.

It isn't a slur but it isn't a term I prefer because it is the adopted language of the gender mafia.

I am not cis because they think they are trans. If I don't much accept the reality of the latter then the former becomes a nonsense term.