Take the question how every you want, detractors and supporters of the current staff. I think people are taking it for granted that if CTC goes that we're going to go out and get the next Coach K. (or what ever coach you think should get the job). IMHO I think with every coaching cycle IU is getting to be a harder and harder sell.
If I were a "top tier" coach, why would I want to coach at IU?
- Thread starter HoosierJJ
- Start date
Well, if they read this message board....
....they could not say "no" fast enough
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....they could not say "no" fast enough
Posted from Rivals Mobile
If I were a "top tier" coach, I would want to coach at IU because
1. As much as many on these boards try to state otherwise, the fans here appreciate strategically good team basketball.
2. The fans here are crazy about the game when it is played that way.
3. I have a chance to take this program back to where it should be, among the best in college.
4. There is a lot of talent in this area. If you can keep it here and build relationships, you won't have to preach to kids about what it means to play at IU. They will already understand.
5. As much as is stated otherwise, the fans here are very tolerant IF you build a program the right way.
1. As much as many on these boards try to state otherwise, the fans here appreciate strategically good team basketball.
2. The fans here are crazy about the game when it is played that way.
3. I have a chance to take this program back to where it should be, among the best in college.
4. There is a lot of talent in this area. If you can keep it here and build relationships, you won't have to preach to kids about what it means to play at IU. They will already understand.
5. As much as is stated otherwise, the fans here are very tolerant IF you build a program the right way.
If what you're saying is true...
...then you need to consider that IU isn't an elite level program anymore, because deep down, that's the selling point. No coach worth his salt is going to turn down a job because of message board fodder. The characterization of what is said (by you included) is far worse than what is actually said. For example, I doubt anyone is taking for granted IU is going to go out and get the next Coach K. There are those who certainly have their top choice, but it's not often that one coach leaves an elite job even for another elite job.
One of the few examples I can think of was UNC getting Roy Williams, but he was a Dean Smith disciple.
...then you need to consider that IU isn't an elite level program anymore, because deep down, that's the selling point. No coach worth his salt is going to turn down a job because of message board fodder. The characterization of what is said (by you included) is far worse than what is actually said. For example, I doubt anyone is taking for granted IU is going to go out and get the next Coach K. There are those who certainly have their top choice, but it's not often that one coach leaves an elite job even for another elite job.
One of the few examples I can think of was UNC getting Roy Williams, but he was a Dean Smith disciple.
Re: Coaches don't think like fans
This post was edited on 3/10 12:55 PM by reignof cats
Disagree. Every basketball coach in America would consider IU a top job. There are probably at least 5 respectable high school coaches in Indiana alone that could do a better job than Clappy in recruiting, coaching tactics, over all presentation, etc. Tradition and salary probably have many coaches agents asking for the opportunity.
This post was edited on 3/10 12:55 PM by reignof cats
Because what 25 guys say on a message board is really going to determine
if they take a job that will most likely make them one of the top 5 highest paid coaches at a tradition-rich bball school? Yeah...I'm sure they'll stay away because of that. Good grief.
if they take a job that will most likely make them one of the top 5 highest paid coaches at a tradition-rich bball school? Yeah...I'm sure they'll stay away because of that. Good grief.
And perhaps more important than any of that.
You'll make a boat load of money.Not a lot of places out there where you'll make as much money as you will at IU.
You'll make a boat load of money.Not a lot of places out there where you'll make as much money as you will at IU.
elite v. blueblood
We're a blueblood, but we're not elite. I think that's the difference that you and I would agree on.
We're a blueblood, but we're not elite. I think that's the difference that you and I would agree on.
Re: It's harder to sell...
kids on the old age of assembly hall. Kids these days don't care of its historic significance.
I think if we had a new building to play in plus names on the jerseys then we would prob get better players.
But i don't think IU is a hard sell at all. No school is going to be able to pull every person they wanted. But we did get Sampson and Crean. Sampson was def a better coach than Crean except Sampson couldn't keep his fingers off the telephone.
kids on the old age of assembly hall. Kids these days don't care of its historic significance.
I think if we had a new building to play in plus names on the jerseys then we would prob get better players.
But i don't think IU is a hard sell at all. No school is going to be able to pull every person they wanted. But we did get Sampson and Crean. Sampson was def a better coach than Crean except Sampson couldn't keep his fingers off the telephone.
Sampson's Houston team has 4 conference wins with...
- 3 RSCI Top 75 recruits starting (the entire conference only has 10 Top 75 recruits)
- 1 McD AA (The entire conference has 2 McD AA's)
- Experience Tracker has them as the 3rd most experienced team in the AAC (Experience Tracker doesn't factor in redshirt years of which 3 of Houston main players are Redshirt Jr's and Knowles is a Redshirt Soph.
This Houston team is a huge underachiever imo and his 2 years at IU are probably the 2 most over rated seasons in IU history. Is Sampson better than Crean? Maybe, but I'm not convinced of that. Forgetting about ethics, I think we've hired 3 average at best basketball coaches in a row, which indicates to me that IU decision makers just don't know what to look for in a basketball coach.
- 3 RSCI Top 75 recruits starting (the entire conference only has 10 Top 75 recruits)
- 1 McD AA (The entire conference has 2 McD AA's)
- Experience Tracker has them as the 3rd most experienced team in the AAC (Experience Tracker doesn't factor in redshirt years of which 3 of Houston main players are Redshirt Jr's and Knowles is a Redshirt Soph.
This Houston team is a huge underachiever imo and his 2 years at IU are probably the 2 most over rated seasons in IU history. Is Sampson better than Crean? Maybe, but I'm not convinced of that. Forgetting about ethics, I think we've hired 3 average at best basketball coaches in a row, which indicates to me that IU decision makers just don't know what to look for in a basketball coach.
I'm not hung up on getting a top tier coach at this point
I'd rather take a chance on a younger hungry coach who has something to prove.
The problem with top proven coaches is they are all going to come with some huge buy-out. I'd rather see that $11M turned into incentives to make him the highest paid coach in all of college basketball if he wins it all. Make him earn it!
Just give me someone who will do things the "right-way" the "IU-way". No more over-signing! Honor the scholarships all the way through instead of yanking them from seniors at the last minute. Be willing to play any team anywhere. No more padding our pre-season schedule with home games against pansies. Build a team with 3 or 4 senior leaders EVERY YEAR!
Teach tough defense! Teach team offense! Make more free throws than your opponents attempt. Provide more structure and leadership for the team....!
I'd rather take a chance on a younger hungry coach who has something to prove.
The problem with top proven coaches is they are all going to come with some huge buy-out. I'd rather see that $11M turned into incentives to make him the highest paid coach in all of college basketball if he wins it all. Make him earn it!
Just give me someone who will do things the "right-way" the "IU-way". No more over-signing! Honor the scholarships all the way through instead of yanking them from seniors at the last minute. Be willing to play any team anywhere. No more padding our pre-season schedule with home games against pansies. Build a team with 3 or 4 senior leaders EVERY YEAR!
Teach tough defense! Teach team offense! Make more free throws than your opponents attempt. Provide more structure and leadership for the team....!
dollars, facilities, recruiting base, fan base, history, not a FB school
good academic, fantastic campus... there's a lot to like
You have no ceiling to prevent you from competing for anything.
We haven't been top 10 on the court consistently for a very long time, but it is still a top 10 program.
This post was edited on 3/10 2:25 PM by outside shooter
good academic, fantastic campus... there's a lot to like
You have no ceiling to prevent you from competing for anything.
We haven't been top 10 on the court consistently for a very long time, but it is still a top 10 program.
This post was edited on 3/10 2:25 PM by outside shooter
you probably have to recognize we're likely not getting a "top tier" coach.
more likely is that we can find a coach who can be a top tier coach. RMK wasn't a top tier coach when he came here, nor was Coach K, Dean at UNC, Roy at KU or Donovan at UF. They were guys who became top tier and that's primarily what we're looking for. Even though we'd have to pay BS like a top tier guy, he really falls in to this category because he's not delivered results year after year at a high major D1 program and dealt with all the distractions that entails.
To get a top tier coach, they have to be dissatisfied with their current gig or else they're not going to want to leave the situation they've built. An up and comer is more likely to recognize what can be built. I think the "fan expectations and pressure" is dumb. Every elite program is going to have big time expectations and pressure to win, and if you're in that environment, you recognize that. The concern I have is that I think candidates are turned off by the admin/environment that let RMK go in a clumsy fashion and then bumbled through the MD and KS hires and gave a ridiculous extension to a guy that hadn't yet proven himself. That's where I think their concerns lie. I think that is what turned off Few and Bennett. Any smart coach will see an engaged and passionate fan base, especially one that is still "on board" with the inferior product we've been given for most of 20 years, as a huge asset to be harvested and encouraged. Look at UCLA's empty stands and they've had a much better and more successful product to cheer on most of the last 20 years than what we've had. Our fanbase is a benefit not a detraction.
On the business side, in weighing sales positions, I didn't analyze the customer (fan) base. I analyzed the company and management I'd be working for and the product/services I'd be selling. If that was strong, I knew I could sell it to the customers and that they'd buy.
This post was edited on 3/10 2:33 PM by kkott
more likely is that we can find a coach who can be a top tier coach. RMK wasn't a top tier coach when he came here, nor was Coach K, Dean at UNC, Roy at KU or Donovan at UF. They were guys who became top tier and that's primarily what we're looking for. Even though we'd have to pay BS like a top tier guy, he really falls in to this category because he's not delivered results year after year at a high major D1 program and dealt with all the distractions that entails.
To get a top tier coach, they have to be dissatisfied with their current gig or else they're not going to want to leave the situation they've built. An up and comer is more likely to recognize what can be built. I think the "fan expectations and pressure" is dumb. Every elite program is going to have big time expectations and pressure to win, and if you're in that environment, you recognize that. The concern I have is that I think candidates are turned off by the admin/environment that let RMK go in a clumsy fashion and then bumbled through the MD and KS hires and gave a ridiculous extension to a guy that hadn't yet proven himself. That's where I think their concerns lie. I think that is what turned off Few and Bennett. Any smart coach will see an engaged and passionate fan base, especially one that is still "on board" with the inferior product we've been given for most of 20 years, as a huge asset to be harvested and encouraged. Look at UCLA's empty stands and they've had a much better and more successful product to cheer on most of the last 20 years than what we've had. Our fanbase is a benefit not a detraction.
On the business side, in weighing sales positions, I didn't analyze the customer (fan) base. I analyzed the company and management I'd be working for and the product/services I'd be selling. If that was strong, I knew I could sell it to the customers and that they'd buy.
This post was edited on 3/10 2:33 PM by kkott
Tradition, fan support, university support. It is the main focus...
within this state and the university. Not hard to recruit talented players with all those combinations. For a lot of top tier coaches this would be on their list as one of their dream jobs. This is still a blue blood program.
within this state and the university. Not hard to recruit talented players with all those combinations. For a lot of top tier coaches this would be on their list as one of their dream jobs. This is still a blue blood program.
Money, fertile recruiting base, good facilities that are being..
upgraded further.
Even if you take the history of the program out of the equation.. it is still a highly attractive job for those reasons.
And IU doesn't need the next Coach K to be very successful. There are several coaches they could have hired at the last 2 turns that are nothing near the next coach K that would have likely had IU in the top 20 every year, competing for Final Fours in many of those years.
upgraded further.
Even if you take the history of the program out of the equation.. it is still a highly attractive job for those reasons.
And IU doesn't need the next Coach K to be very successful. There are several coaches they could have hired at the last 2 turns that are nothing near the next coach K that would have likely had IU in the top 20 every year, competing for Final Fours in many of those years.
disagree
I think with every coachng cycle it is getting easier for iu to hire up. Lets take into account ghe firing of Knight first off- one of the greatest coaches of all time and a unique ending to a hof career. We appeased players, eoe folks, and moralists by hiring Davis, a mistake by any measure but thats what Brand & Co did. Then we hired Sampson...and now we are comfortably away from the Knight era and the fallout from that and away from the Sampson fallout. Clean slate. All we want is winning and a decent human being at the helm. Just like everyone else. However, IU still has advantages that 90% of other programs dont- fanbase, recruiting hotbed, exposure, media love(or hate, same diff), $. Every great program goes through their crap. IU has gone through their bumbling years. We might not get the next coach K, but to say IU is no longer attractive at the highest level is just whistling loudly so someone will come over and try and convnce you everything will be ok, and it will be. The last 15 yrs have been the worst in IU's history and yet we still went to the title game, won a couple conference titles, went to the sweet 16 twice and sent a dozen players to the nba. Anyone with knowledge or insight into college basketball knows IU is still a sleeping giant. It isnt audacity or delusion that causes me to assert that. Could IU screw up and hire laterally? Yes, but like I said to assume we are now a widely considered dumpster fire is just not accurate.
I think with every coachng cycle it is getting easier for iu to hire up. Lets take into account ghe firing of Knight first off- one of the greatest coaches of all time and a unique ending to a hof career. We appeased players, eoe folks, and moralists by hiring Davis, a mistake by any measure but thats what Brand & Co did. Then we hired Sampson...and now we are comfortably away from the Knight era and the fallout from that and away from the Sampson fallout. Clean slate. All we want is winning and a decent human being at the helm. Just like everyone else. However, IU still has advantages that 90% of other programs dont- fanbase, recruiting hotbed, exposure, media love(or hate, same diff), $. Every great program goes through their crap. IU has gone through their bumbling years. We might not get the next coach K, but to say IU is no longer attractive at the highest level is just whistling loudly so someone will come over and try and convnce you everything will be ok, and it will be. The last 15 yrs have been the worst in IU's history and yet we still went to the title game, won a couple conference titles, went to the sweet 16 twice and sent a dozen players to the nba. Anyone with knowledge or insight into college basketball knows IU is still a sleeping giant. It isnt audacity or delusion that causes me to assert that. Could IU screw up and hire laterally? Yes, but like I said to assume we are now a widely considered dumpster fire is just not accurate.
Re: Because you can win championships here....
13 of the 16 largest high school basketball arenas are in Indiana........Think about that for a moment. That is a staggering amount of available and local talent that any college coach could fathom....IU coaches take the bus to scour and recruit....most others that the next flight out. Indiana high school basketball is Texas high school football......no difference.
No other college program in Indiana comes close to IU........in the big picture..... Right now, we are focusing on the present. But IU is a dream job for all of the right reasons....Facilities, tradition....networking and recruiting.....and so it goes. We just haven't found the right coach since the ugly and earth-shaking firing of a Hall of Fame coach. If and when the administration wants the basketball program to excel.........it will make that happen with the right hire....that is what it takes. Crean was a viable and potential "right hire".....at least for the time he was needed...but that time has expired. His win/loss history has taken care of that question.
IU must do what UNC did.....and what Ohio State (football) did....Go after the guy you want with an attitude of not taking no for an answer.....Dig as deep as you need to...Make that commitment both financial and authoritative. Give the right guy everything that is required to succeed at the highest level. Brad Stevens..........are you there?
13 of the 16 largest high school basketball arenas are in Indiana........Think about that for a moment. That is a staggering amount of available and local talent that any college coach could fathom....IU coaches take the bus to scour and recruit....most others that the next flight out. Indiana high school basketball is Texas high school football......no difference.
No other college program in Indiana comes close to IU........in the big picture..... Right now, we are focusing on the present. But IU is a dream job for all of the right reasons....Facilities, tradition....networking and recruiting.....and so it goes. We just haven't found the right coach since the ugly and earth-shaking firing of a Hall of Fame coach. If and when the administration wants the basketball program to excel.........it will make that happen with the right hire....that is what it takes. Crean was a viable and potential "right hire".....at least for the time he was needed...but that time has expired. His win/loss history has taken care of that question.
IU must do what UNC did.....and what Ohio State (football) did....Go after the guy you want with an attitude of not taking no for an answer.....Dig as deep as you need to...Make that commitment both financial and authoritative. Give the right guy everything that is required to succeed at the highest level. Brad Stevens..........are you there?
I could only come up with 7 reasons
1) talent laden recruiting territory
2) financial backing in both salary and budget
3) top notch facilities
4) basketball centric school..no bowing to the Fball coaches every whim
5) rich history
6) fan support
7) elite conference
1) talent laden recruiting territory
2) financial backing in both salary and budget
3) top notch facilities
4) basketball centric school..no bowing to the Fball coaches every whim
5) rich history
6) fan support
7) elite conference
Re: I could only come up with 7 reasons
You and Harpo nailed it, nothing else to add.
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You and Harpo nailed it, nothing else to add.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Re: I could only come up with 7 reasons
I disagree with the 'top-notch' facility part. AH has a rich history but quite frankly, it is a dump compared to either the Dean Smith Center or John Paul Jones Arena. Yes, it is top-notch compared to Mackey Arena, Butler Fieldhouse and Illinois' Assembly Hall, but rich history aside, it is NOT up with the best facilities in the country.
I disagree with the 'top-notch' facility part. AH has a rich history but quite frankly, it is a dump compared to either the Dean Smith Center or John Paul Jones Arena. Yes, it is top-notch compared to Mackey Arena, Butler Fieldhouse and Illinois' Assembly Hall, but rich history aside, it is NOT up with the best facilities in the country.
Re: I could only come up with 7 reasons
Players dont care if the arena has good sight lines..they care about having a place to practice without having to share it with the volleyball team
Players care about the practice gym, and the weight room. Do you think Duke players care about all the seats that have obstructed views in Cameron? Nope they love the atmosphere, and assembly hall has one of the the top atmospheres in the country
Players dont care if the arena has good sight lines..they care about having a place to practice without having to share it with the volleyball team
Players care about the practice gym, and the weight room. Do you think Duke players care about all the seats that have obstructed views in Cameron? Nope they love the atmosphere, and assembly hall has one of the the top atmospheres in the country
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