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I owe this Board an apology

davegolf

All-American
Sep 18, 2001
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I was in error when I thought the FBI and AG would follow the law and indict HRC. I was totally wrong. MSNBC and CNN are reporting there will be no indictment. How they know I have no clue! Statutory law and the Constitution notwithstanding politics prevail especially if you are HRC. This is really my last post but I thought I owed an apology first.
 
I was in error when I thought the FBI and AG would follow the law and indict HRC. I was totally wrong. MSNBC and CNN are reporting there will be no indictment. How they know I have no clue! Statutory law and the Constitution notwithstanding politics prevail especially if you are HRC. This is really my last post but I thought I owed an apology first.

Did you really think she would be indicted? Really?

She -- a former First Lady, former Senator, former Secretary of State, and current heir apparent to the presidency -- indicted over emails...by a DOJ of her own party?

I could've told you months ago that she'd go scot free (and did). Now I don't know if she should or shouldn't face charges. I'm making no statement about that either way -- as I'm in no position to. It's entirely possible that she shouldn't be charged.

But whether she should or shouldn't, she was never gonna be regardless what the investigation turned up. So if you're surprised, you shouldn't be.
 
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I was in error when I thought the FBI and AG would follow the law and indict HRC. I was totally wrong. MSNBC and CNN are reporting there will be no indictment. How they know I have no clue! Statutory law and the Constitution notwithstanding politics prevail especially if you are HRC. This is really my last post but I thought I owed an apology first.
Looks like those posters who predicted that there was only one legitimate outcome for you were correct. You don't care if she's guilty. You only care if she is indicted. Too bad.
 
Looks like those posters who predicted that there was only one legitimate outcome for you were correct. You don't care if she's guilty. You only care if she is indicted. Too bad.

Well, we can't find out if she is guilty until after she is indicted, now can we? You want the cart before the horse?

The more pertinent question is whether there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed. If yes, a prosecutor or grand jury should charge her. The jury can then decide - as they would if it were you or me. But we both know that won't happen. Again, as usual with Ruling Class Democrats, there are different rules for those who are more equal than others.

(Hell, I'd like to know if she Mirandized for her FBI interview. I bet not. That was all worked out on the Tarmac. Oops. Darn the bad luck. All that evidence down the drain. Silly FBI. Tricks are for kids.)
 
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Well, we can't find out if she is guilty until after she is indicted, now can we? You want the cart before the horse?

The more pertinent question is whether there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed. If yes, a prosecutor or grand jury should charge her. The jury can then decide - as they would if it were you or me. But we both know that won't happen. Again, as usual with Ruling Class Democrats, there are different rules for those who are more equal than others.

(Hell, I'd like to know if she Mirandized for her FBI interview. I bet not. That was all worked out on the Tarmac. Oops. Darn the bad luck. All that evidence down the drain. Silly FBI. Tricks are for kids.)
its-a-conspiracy.jpg
 
Did you really think she would be indicted? Really?

She -- a former First Lady, former Senator, former Secretary of State, and current heir apparent to the presidency -- indicted over emails...by a DOJ of her own party?

I could've told you months ago that she'd go scot free (and did). Now I don't know if she should or shouldn't face charges. I'm making no statement about that either way -- as I'm in no position to. It's entirely possible that she shouldn't be charged.

But whether she should or shouldn't, she was never gonna be regardless what the investigation turned up. So if you're surprised, you shouldn't be.

I'd have a better chance hitting the mega millions this week than the chances she would be indicted.

Anyone expecting otherwise was lost in their own world.

She stumbled, attempted to hide from the FOIA. She will be a terrible executive, but she's the best we've got. That's sad for the country.
 
I'd have a better chance hitting the mega millions this week than the chances she would be indicted.

Anyone expecting otherwise was lost in their own world.

She stumbled, attempted to hide from the FOIA. She will be a terrible executive, but she's the best we've got. That's sad for the country.

But I want my wall! China has one, why cant we?

:D
 
I was in error when I thought the FBI and AG would follow the law and indict HRC. I was totally wrong. MSNBC and CNN are reporting there will be no indictment. How they know I have no clue! Statutory law and the Constitution notwithstanding politics prevail especially if you are HRC. This is really my last post but I thought I owed an apology first.
Read Hugh Hewitt's article this morning at RealClearPolitics.com

They DO NOT know what the evidence inside the criminal investigation is. Per Hewitt, those two in particular are being "worked" by the Clintonians - fed false information - information the feeders cannot possibly know unless they were in the investigation - or in the room during the interview. It may be the case that there is no indictment, but the people whispering to CNN and MSNBC do not know that. Read the Hewitt article.
 
I have no idea if Mrs. Clinton should be indicted. Just no idea. But the idea that our criminal justice system is skewed toward some people is a problem we need to focus on in general. There are all sorts of studies showing there is a problem. If one has money, they face a completely different justice system than people without money. I get people are frustrated with Clinton, but why isn't that frustration shown MORE often? We need one judicial system for all.
 
Looks like those posters who predicted that there was only one legitimate outcome for you were correct. You don't care if she's guilty. You only care if she is indicted. Too bad.
From experience I have never had a client who was indicted and or officially charged that was not guilty. Convicted is a totally separate issue. HRC is guilty of violating official government rules if not statutes she is guilty beyond any doubt and from her own admissions however that being said it appears she will not be indicted. The whole thing stinks of "Clinton" but my error was believing in the justice system. There appears to be one for the haves and one for the have nots.
 
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From experience I have never had a client who was indicted that was not guilty. Convicted is a totally separate issue.
Have you had many criminal clients? We've put innocent people on death row, I can't help but believe something as simple as an indictment (which a ham sandwich can be) has a high false positive rate.
 
Have you had many criminal clients? We've put innocent people on death row, I can't help but believe something as simple as an indictment (which a ham sandwich can be) has a high false positive rate.
Hundreds I was a private and public defender for years. We have had innocent people on death row no question but few and far between. The real world is the police do a very good job of arresting the guilty. As attorney you do what you can to plead or find flaws in their case and do what it takes to win.
 
I was in error when I thought the FBI and AG would follow the law and indict HRC. I was totally wrong. MSNBC and CNN are reporting there will be no indictment. How they know I have no clue! Statutory law and the Constitution notwithstanding politics prevail especially if you are HRC. This is really my last post but I thought I owed an apology first.

Did you think that Bush et al would be indicted in 2007,for using servers hosted at the GOP headquarters? What "law" do you think HRC violated that wasn't violated earlier by the Bush admin in 2007?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy
 
I'm ashamed to say that entire affair is news to me. (Not the firing of the attorneys, but the extent of the email hosting concerns.)

Not really a shock,it didn't get near the publicity.Sort of like all the wing nuts spouting Benghazzzziiii,who have either conveniently ignored,or never even knew about all the FSO injuries/attacks during the Bush admin...
 
Not really a shock,it didn't get near the publicity.Sort of like all the wing nuts spouting Benghazzzziiii,who have either conveniently ignored,or never even knew about all the FSO injuries/attacks during the Bush admin...

That is to say it didn't get entire specials dedicated to it on Fox, Rush, or Drudge.
 
Did you think that Bush et al would be indicted in 2007,for using servers hosted at the GOP headquarters? What "law" do you think HRC violated that wasn't violated earlier by the Bush admin in 2007?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy
Then someone with authority to do so should instigate an investigation of the Bush doings. There is absolutely no doubt - from the known public information - that Clinton violated the espionage laws of the nation by allowing well over 3000 classified messages to be passed over her unsecured system. Each occurance is a separate felony. Then there is the corrupt influence of her position as Secretary of State being abused for her own personal benefit (and for the Clinton Foundation - which brings Bill Clinton into the investigation). Then there are the crimes committed in covering all this up. Then there is lying to the FBI - unless she took the 5th on all questions they asked her Saturday. Start adding those up and you have thousands of crimes. No Presidential candidate in the history of the country has ever sought the office while under criminal investigation.
 
Then someone with authority to do so should instigate an investigation of the Bush doings. There is absolutely no doubt - from the known public information - that Clinton violated the espionage laws of the nation by allowing well over 3000 classified messages to be passed over her unsecured system. Each occurance is a separate felony. Then there is the corrupt influence of her position as Secretary of State being abused for her own personal benefit (and for the Clinton Foundation - which brings Bill Clinton into the investigation). Then there are the crimes committed in covering all this up. Then there is lying to the FBI - unless she took the 5th on all questions they asked her Saturday. Start adding those up and you have thousands of crimes. No Presidential candidate in the history of the country has ever sought the office while under criminal investigation.
Sigh...how many times have I corrected this exact post word for word? You refuse to learn anything. Pay attention: from what is publicly known, we do not know if any crimes were committed. For a crime to be committed, classified information had to end up where it wasn't allowed, and it had to be done with someone's knowledge or due to gross negligence. The simple fact that those emails exist is not enough to prove a crime, no matter how many times you repeat it.
 
Did you think that Bush et al would be indicted in 2007,for using servers hosted at the GOP headquarters? What "law" do you think HRC violated that wasn't violated earlier by the Bush admin in 2007?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

Serious question.
Do you think we should indict Robert E. Lee?
He allowed the highest level military orders to be found with cigars for Christ's sake.
So just shut up talking about Hillary and let's talk HISTORY.
Hell, we should indict Reagan too.
He had Alzeiheimers and told Nancy all kind of secrets.
That is what matters.

The next President is meaningless.
We should talk about the people who matter.
What Clinton did DOES NOT MATTER.
What BUSH did -THAT is what matters.
Screw 2007.
I WANT 1968 RECTIFIED!!! NOW!!!

LET HILL BE HILL!
 
Serious question.
Do you think we should indict Robert E. Lee?
He allowed the highest level military orders to be found with cigars for Christ's sake.
So just shut up talking about Hillary and let's talk HISTORY.
Hell, we should indict Reagan too.
He had Alzeiheimers and told Nancy all kind of secrets.
That is what matters.

The next President is meaningless.
We should talk about the people who matter.
What Clinton did DOES NOT MATTER.
What BUSH did -THAT is what matters.
Screw 2007.
I WANT 1968 RECTIFIED!!! NOW!!!

LET HILL BE HILL!
Don't fret, your people will be on her ass from day one of her presidency. Wasting our tax dollars on investigation after investigation. It's what you people do best. To hell with actually trying to do good things for the country.
 
Don't fret, your people will be on her ass from day one of her presidency. Wasting our tax dollars on investigation after investigation. It's what you people do best. To hell with actually trying to do good things for the country.
Yeah your dems have done so much to better this country. Like the last eight years have been the worst in history. But it was Bush's fault and still is i imagine in your world.
 
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Yeah your dems have done so much to better this country. Like the last eight years have been the worst in history. But it was Bush's fault and still is i imagine in your world.
I can't wait until the Dems take control of Congress so we can investigate Bush & Cheney for war crimes. Over and over and over again. That will be fun.

Edit to add: Almost forgot, we can also vote to repeal Medicare Part D. Lots of times. Maybe 47. Or some such number.
 
I can't wait until the Dems take control of Congress so we can investigate Bush & Cheney for war crimes. Over and over and over again. That will be fun.

Edit to add: Almost forgot, we can also vote to repeal Medicare Part D. Lots of times. Maybe 47. Or some such number.

Bring it. You had Obama, the House and Senate, and did nothing. There were reasons. So I would be happy to re-live the backstabbing treachery of the traitors who were for it before they were against it. Let's get it on. Televised hearings, with subpoenas. Yeehaw! (Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.)
 
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It does not currently appear the Dems have any realistic chance to win the House (I think they are currently projected to pick up around ten seats or so), but the Senate is a real possibility. The best thing they can do is avoid responding to the GOP's petty BS with petty BS of their own. Get down to doing real governing, and show the Americans they are a genuine alternative. That's my hope.
 
It does not currently appear the Dems have any realistic chance to win the House (I think they are currently projected to pick up around ten seats or so), but the Senate is a real possibility. The best thing they can do is avoid responding to the GOP's petty BS with petty BS of their own. Get down to doing real governing, and show the Americans they are a genuine alternative. That's my hope.

Republicans have done a fantastic job of firewalling themselves into the House for a long time to come. Gerrymandering rules supreme. Just look at vote totals from some of the '14 midterms. In PA democrats won about 45% of the vote total for house representatives, but that only resulted in 5 of the 18 seats. Same in NC. ~45% of the vote, but only 3 of the 13 seats. MI and OH aren't much different. The majority the republicans have in the house isn't even close to their actual popularity as far as votes received. They've done a great job for themselves drawing those lines.
 
Serious question.
Do you think we should indict Robert E. Lee?
He allowed the highest level military orders to be found with cigars for Christ's sake.
So just shut up talking about Hillary and let's talk HISTORY.
Hell, we should indict Reagan too.
He had Alzeiheimers and told Nancy all kind of secrets.
That is what matters.

The next President is meaningless.
We should talk about the people who matter.
What Clinton did DOES NOT MATTER.
What BUSH did -THAT is what matters.
Screw 2007.
I WANT 1968 RECTIFIED!!! NOW!!!

LET HILL BE HILL!

Did you even notice what I responded to? Dave was whining about the FBI and AG failing to do "their duty",and implying that it was somehow due to HRC being "above the law".I merely pointed out the inherent hypocrisy of that stance,due to precedents set during the previous Bush administration.

Am I wrong in believing that you,Dave,Colo Hoosier,Ladoga and others weren't every bit as outspoken in your disdain for similar events under the Bush admin?Were you guys just as outspoken regarding Embassy attacks then,as you are now (Benghazi)?I could be wrong,but for some reason I highly doubt it...
 
Republicans have done a fantastic job of firewalling themselves into the House for a long time to come. Gerrymandering rules supreme. Just look at vote totals from some of the '14 midterms. In PA democrats won about 45% of the vote total for house representatives, but that only resulted in 5 of the 18 seats. Same in NC. ~45% of the vote, but only 3 of the 13 seats. MI and OH aren't much different. The majority the republicans have in the house isn't even close to their actual popularity as far as votes received. They've done a great job for themselves drawing those lines.

Probably why job approval rates for Congress are at record lows...
 
Did you even notice what I responded to? Dave was whining about the FBI and AG failing to do "their duty",and implying that it was somehow due to HRC being "above the law".I merely pointed out the inherent hypocrisy of that stance,due to precedents set during the previous Bush administration.

Am I wrong in believing that you,Dave,Colo Hoosier,Ladoga and others weren't every bit as outspoken in your disdain for similar events under the Bush admin?Were you guys just as outspoken regarding Embassy attacks then,as you are now (Benghazi)?I could be wrong,but for some reason I highly doubt it...

Yeah, I did. Once again when some one discussed whether Hillary violated law, someone - this time you - said "well, Bush," like it is a responsive response.

It isn't.
Might as well say "well Custer."
What Bush did is not relevant to what Hillary did.

You wanna play "let's compare hypocrisy"?

Did you bitch when Obama used drones to kill people, or only when Bush poured water on people?

Yawn.
 
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I have no idea if Mrs. Clinton should be indicted. Just no idea. But the idea that our criminal justice system is skewed toward some people is a problem we need to focus on in general. There are all sorts of studies showing there is a problem. If one has money, they face a completely different justice system than people without money. I get people are frustrated with Clinton, but why isn't that frustration shown MORE often? We need one judicial system for all.

This really isn't the same thing, though. I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying. But if she's getting a better deal than she ought to here, it has nothing to do with money.

If money was enough to shield people from indictment in federal court, then somebody failed to tell Martha Stewart (to name one example).
 
"Oh my goodness, what we have here is a natural disaster".
Don't fret, your people will be on her ass from day one of her presidency. Wasting our tax dollars on investigation after investigation. It's what you people do best. To hell with actually trying to do good things for the country.
Lets not forget that after her vote to go to war it took her about two weeks to start this campaign. 15 years and she is going to win it. She is going to one cold hard leader.
 
This really isn't the same thing, though. I'm not saying I disagree with what you're saying. But if she's getting a better deal than she ought to here, it has nothing to do with money.

If money was enough to shield people from indictment in federal court, then somebody failed to tell Martha Stewart (to name one example).
It's not the same thing, but Marvin's point is still valid. The people who are wringing their hands over this (supposed/apparent) lack of an indictment don't have a long history of complaining about our broken justice system, which shows that the hand-wringing isn't about fairness or justice, it's about Hillary.

Which, obviously, shouldn't be a surprise to any rational person. Of course this is political and personal against Hillary. Duh. But it does remind us why people like Dave and Ladoga and many, many others should probably be cautious about climbing up on that high horse while having this discussion.
 
broken justice system

What are you talking about?

While not perfect, I would never say the justice system is "broken" unless you are a BLM sycophant in which case you probably belive much is broken, not just the justice system.

I'd like to see your opening statement about the broken justice system.
 
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What's interesting to me is that the FBI is in charge of this investigation, but that's not good enough. No matter what evidence there is, it will never be enough. Whether it's Whitewater, TWA 800, Oklahoma City, Vince Foster, Benghazi!, the email server....the more not guilty they are, the MORE guilty they REALLY are.

Crazy town.

Well, we can't find out if she is guilty until after she is indicted, now can we? You want the cart before the horse?

The more pertinent question is whether there is probable cause to believe a crime was committed. If yes, a prosecutor or grand jury should charge her. The jury can then decide - as they would if it were you or me. But we both know that won't happen. Again, as usual with Ruling Class Democrats, there are different rules for those who are more equal than others.

(Hell, I'd like to know if she Mirandized for her FBI interview. I bet not. That was all worked out on the Tarmac. Oops. Darn the bad luck. All that evidence down the drain. Silly FBI. Tricks are for kids.)
 
Yeah, I did. Once again when some one discussed whether Hillary violated law, someone - this time you - said "well, Bush," like it is a responsive response.

It isn't.
Might as well day "well Custer."
What Bush did is not relevant to what Hillary did.

You wanna play "let's compare hypocrisy"?

Did you bitch when Obama used drones to kill people, or only when Bush poured water on people?

Yawn.

Obviously I'm not making my point.I think GOAT said it perfectly...

"It's not the same thing, but Marvin's point is still valid. The people who are wringing their hands over this (supposed/apparent) lack of an indictment don't have a long history of complaining about our broken justice system, which shows that the hand-wringing isn't about fairness or justice, it's about Hillary." -Thread!!
 
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It's not the same thing, but Marvin's point is still valid. The people who are wringing their hands over this (supposed/apparent) lack of an indictment don't have a long history of complaining about our broken justice system, which shows that the hand-wringing isn't about fairness or justice, it's about Hillary.

Which, obviously, shouldn't be a surprise to any rational person. Of course this is political and personal against Hillary. Duh. But it does remind us why people like Dave and Ladoga and many, many others should probably be cautious about climbing up on that high horse while having this discussion.

"All rational people agree."
"No rational person could disagree."
"The only people who are complaining are, well, unjust and untrustworthy and unfair and partisan."

Demonize and deny.

Maybe if the Ruling Class had been getting indicted all along the system wouldn't be so broken.

Then again, some of us regular citizens think if you just let the system work, a jury usually gets it right. Not always. (OJ). But does Hillary fear a jury of her peers? sure seems like it. maybe juries are just for the little people. Hillary has to be proven guilty beforehand. It the "special system" for the "special people." Evidence is not what matters. Status - THAT decides the outcome!
 
"All rational people agree."
"No rational person could disagree."
"The only people who are complaining are, well, unjust and untrustworthy and unfair and partisan."

Demonize and deny.

Maybe if the Ruling Class had been getting indicted all along the system wouldn't be so broken.

Then again, some of us regular citizens think if you just let the system work, a jury usually gets it right. Not always. (OJ). But does Hillary fear a jury of her peers? sure seems like it. maybe juries are just for the little people. Hillary has to be proven guilty beforehand. It the "special system" for the "special people." Evidence is not what matters. Status - THAT decides the outcome!
You write so beautifully on the football board, too... :p
 
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