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I hope a bomb is dropped on the NRA convention.

Citing David Hogg doesn't help your cause any.
Really? Why... What exactly is your problem with Hogg aside from ridiculous conspiracy theories pushed by right wing zealots to basically demonize a kid that experienced the nightmare of being trapped with others in his class during a school shooting? He knew many of the victims and likely the gunman himself...

Do you have any factual sources on issues like that, or just rely on people who make ridiculous claims he wasn't at school that day, or he's a crisis actor brought in from CA? He's just a normal school kid who happened to experience a school shooting, and got involved in the idea of trying to prevent it from happening again...

I don't want to put words in your mouth, because I don't know what your issue with Hogg is. I could guess based on the kind of things I read on message boards and you tube comments, but I don't want to just tie you in with ignorant idiots who don't know the truth and just spout what media morons on Fox tell them.

I will say this, I'm pretty damn sure that any reason you might have for demeaning and disliking Hogg is probably equally if not more true for media and politicians you do like. So if you dislike Hogg because you think he seeks publicity or personal fame, it's pretty hard not to realize how well that describes people who attack him as well. The infamous MTG video would be a prime example...

Here is an amazing video of Hogg from the anniversary of Parkland back in Feb criticizing Biden and Congress for failing to act and warning about another Parkland which almost seems erie in the wake of Topps and Uvalde. And actually it turns out he has been consulting and working with Congressman Joe Walsh who has always been a firm 2nd Amendment advocate, but recognizes that something about this process needs to be fixed...

 
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You mean you're not like Biden, who cancels policies that make America stronger just because Trump implemented them?
Actually you're conflating Biden cancelling policies he disagreed with (which every POTUS does) with Trump's personal animosity towards anything related to Obama.

I'd be interested in your list of policies that Biden and those of us who voted for him that would define as "good for America" that Biden cancelled because Trump implemented them? I think many on the Left would argue that Biden has left too many of Trump's policies (esp with regards to the border) in place. I feel confidant in saying that, because I see it mentioned frequently on left-oriented shows...

Trump on the other hand revels in being vindictive. You really need look no further than his ridiculous effort to replace the pro-Trump Governor of GA (who ran as a Trumper and governed in that manner every step of the way) with a hopeless loser candidate who couldn't even beat a novice like Ossoff in a run off for Senate as an incumbent.

And the basis for that vindictiveness? Kemp's unwillingness to contradict what he witnessed in person and claim the election in GA was rigged. I mean Kemp is about as partisan as they come and he had no qualms about scrubbing 100,000s of likely Dem voters off the voting rolls as Sec of State a mere two years before he ran for Governor. But even he realized Trump's claims about "dead people voting" and shipped in ballots were ridiculous...

Trump values loyalty to him above anything else. Including the Truth...
 
Absolutely. Guns don’t belong in schools. I’ll listen to a gun owner, I’ll listen to anyone that thinks they have an idea on how to lower gun deaths in America.

Is it banning all semi- auto rifles? If so come out and say it. It might make a tiny dent and make some of the mass killings dip a bit in magnitude

I hear a lot of bastardization about what current background check laws currently are in the name of “do something”. Truth is background checks even more stringent background checks aren’t stopping these mass killings that we’ve been seeing with AR style rifles.

Something we all know but are unwilling to say is these types of gun deaths hit us especially hard because the victims are children. The deaths of the dozens killed everyday in a gang turf war or even adults who are victims of similar shootings don’t seem to affect us as much.

I agree that the innocence of children is sacred. There is something truly unnerving about seeing a young life, sinless, untested, and ready for the world being stamped out before they even have a chance.
A very reasonable post. I would point out that it's hard to characterize background checks (which aren't universally applied) as stringent when a kid people described as "the next school shooter" was able to take the $4000 he saved from working at Wendy's and buy assault weapons and ammo.

How stringently do you think they scrutinized that transaction? I'm guessing running the brown marker across the $100 bills to make sure they weren't counterfeit was about as stringent as the conversation got...
 
SIAP: A couple of the parents of the children are apparently considering open caskets for their children, so that people will get a full understanding of the reality of the shooting. Will that have an impact on this debate? I’d suspect it will.
 
You're wasting your time. Cosmic hates cops. Thinks they are racist to the person. Only reads shit that reinforces his warped beliefs. He's not worth the time. His mind is closed
No idea how you conflate my political opinions on issues involving some cops abusing their position, with the ridiculous claim that I "hate cops"? I have a very good friend who is not only a cop but is the polar opposite of me on practically any political issue. We've had enough political discussions for me to know that we see very little eye to eye, but we're still friends. And it would be news to him and other people I know that I "hate" cops...

You're a great one to talk about people having closed minds. I don't even dislike cops, much less "hate" them. I don't agitate or talk back to them if I have an interaction, and the two times I've been stopped for speeding by ISP on 37, both troopers let me off with a warning despite the fact that I was going at least 15 miles over the speed limit. And once I was driving on plates that didn't match the registration and the trooper took my story at face value and didn't even ticket me for the speeding. Why the world would I "hate cops"?...
 
No idea how you conflate my political opinions on issues involving some cops abusing their position, with the ridiculous claim that I "hate cops"? I have a very good friend who is not only a cop but is the polar opposite of me on practically any political issue. We've had enough political discussions for me to know that we see very little eye to eye, but we're still friends. And it would be news to him and other people I know that I "hate" cops...

You're a great one to talk about people having closed minds. I don't even dislike cops, much less "hate" them. I don't agitate or talk back to them if I have an interaction, and the two times I've been stopped for speeding by ISP on 37, both troopers let me off with a warning despite the fact that I was going at least 15 miles over the speed limit. And once I was driving on plates that didn't match the registration and the trooper took my story at face value and didn't even ticket me for the speeding. Why the world would I "hate cops"?...
I remember well your comment from your time in Saint Louis and the cops being racist
 
Who hates David Hogg?
Well I actually meant "hate" as in vilified and not reacting favorably if I cited him as an example of a gun owner who favors regulation. But since you posed the question (which based on my experience with right wing media I felt was a given), I decided to look for examples...

So I googled "hate David Hogg" and this is the first response...


Why do so many people hate David Hogg? - Quora​

https://www.quora.com › Why-do-so-many-people-hate-...




Apr 1, 2018 — Because he's intelligent, articulate and photogenic, and they fear he represents the future of politics in the United States. The gun situation in the United ...
17 answers · Top answer: Why do right-wing nutjobs hate David Hogg? Because he's intelligent, articulate and photogenic, ...
Am I bad person for hating David Hogg? - Quora
10 answers
Apr 10, 2018
What is your take on David Hogg and his thoughts ...
47 answers
May 22, 2018
Why do people dislike David Hogg despite his open ...
59 answers
Jun 20, 2018
Is David Hogg now considered to be untouchable ...
11 answers
Apr 17, 2018
More results from www.quora.com

So I'd say not only is it not my imagination, but also judging by over 200 responses I'd say others perceive that to be true as well. You can also look thru the comments of any video he's in and see how many people comment against him with vitriol...

The reality is that because he spoke out against sacred cows like the NRA and extreme gun rights groups, he became a target of smears and threats. People lied about him and spun weird conspiracy theories when the reality is that he exercised his right of free speech (and especially as a survivor of a mass shooting) to speak his mind and become involved in a cause he found himself passionately committed to. DANC even commented that citing him was not a positive, which is only true if you have a preconceived negative notion of him that goes beyond him just being a kid that witnessed a bunch of classmates get murdered...

So I'd say plenty of people "hate" him. I don't think it's either rational or legit, but for one reason or another they see him as an enemy...
 
OK, I guess if you want to call this a pistol you can, but just having a pistol grip and a shortened barrel doesn't make it into what normally is thought of as a pistol.

There’s a couple of measurements that what technically make a weapon either a pistol or a long gun.
I think it’s barrel length from the receiver , the stock/ grip and this on can get tricky as I recall how the laws are written.
as in anything DC, there’s designed obscurity so they can use things differently at their advantage.
you can actually make a shotgun a pistol with only a hacksaw.
 
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Well I actually meant "hate" as in vilified and not reacting favorably if I cited him as an example of a gun owner who favors regulation. But since you posed the question (which based on my experience with right wing media I felt was a given), I decided to look for examples...

So I googled "hate David Hogg" and this is the first response...

Why do so many people hate David Hogg? - Quora

https://www.quora.com › Why-do-so-many-people-hate-...



Apr 1, 2018 — Because he's intelligent, articulate and photogenic, and they fear he represents the future of politics in the United States. The gun situation in the United ...
17 answers · Top answer: Why do right-wing nutjobs hate David Hogg? Because he's intelligent, articulate and photogenic, ...
Am I bad person for hating David Hogg? - Quora
10 answers
Apr 10, 2018
What is your take on David Hogg and his thoughts ...
47 answers
May 22, 2018
Why do people dislike David Hogg despite his open ...
59 answers
Jun 20, 2018
Is David Hogg now considered to be untouchable ...
11 answers
Apr 17, 2018
More results from www.quora.com

So I'd say not only is it not my imagination, but also judging by over 200 responses I'd say others perceive that to be true as well. You can also look thru the comments of any video he's in and see how many people comment against him with vitriol...

The reality is that because he spoke out against sacred cows like the NRA and extreme gun rights groups, he became a target of smears and threats. People lied about him and spun weird conspiracy theories when the reality is that he exercised his right of free speech (and especially as a survivor of a mass shooting) to speak his mind and become involved in a cause he found himself passionately committed to. DANC even commented that citing him was not a positive, which is only true if you have a preconceived negative notion of him that goes beyond him just being a kid that witnessed a bunch of classmates get murdered...

So I'd say plenty of people "hate" him. I don't think it's either rational or legit, but for one reason or another they see him as an enemy...
Ok, point taken. By that criteria, you are much hated as well.🙂🙂🙂
 
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Ok, point taken. By that criteria, you are much hated as well.🙂🙂🙂
But probably not to the point where Qanon types might want to actually kill me. Don't think I've ever been the target of death threats or attempts to swat by calling police and claiming that my family is being held hostage by a gunman. In case you don't know the rationale behind that concept, the idea is to call Law enforcement in hopes of them conducting a raid to "save" the family and maybe kill the "gunman" in the process.

It's another one of those innovations from the gamer/4 chan set and people have ended up dead. Hogg told WAPO in 2019 that he had received 7 death threats and his family had been targeted by swat attempts as well.
We know for sure MTG basically harassed him as he walked down the street because she posted the video. So that's probably a whole different level of vitriol compared to anything I've had to face...
 
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Door stays shut, murderer does Not get in...

Are you really as dim as you appear to be on here???

Edited to add: Not
(typed too fast)

First, I stated I did not read all your post as it was too long. But the armed resource officer info had been out there long before you posted at noonish today. So, that is your first piece of either misinformation or disinformation. I am going with disinformation since 1) you used it emphatically as if it were fact, and 2) current info was easily available.

Second, again, (geez why do I have to keep posting the same stuff), I stated that you did not correctly summarize the Grassley Cruz amendment. I posted a response to you...twice. I don't care if you ignore it. But you original post on the topic was misleading, at best.
I started to respond regarding the amendment last night, but thought I'd just let it die. But then you brought it up again, and implied I was ignoring you. So I have no issue revisiting what happened...

Reid proposed the Safe schools, safe communities act of 2013, in response to Sandy Hook. GOP members indicated they would Filibuster it, so in response Reid established a 60 vote requirement for all proposed amendments, and that was passed with unanimous consent and no dissent. The Grassley-Cruz Amendment garnered 52 votes and a bi-partisan amendment offered by Toomey-Mancin received 54.

Cruz recently went on Fox and said this...

"In 2013, I introduced legislation called Grassley-Cruz which targeted felons and fugitives and those with serious mental illness. It directed the Department of Justice to do an audit of federal convictions to make sure felons are in the database. It directed the Department of Justice to prosecute and put in jail felons and fugitives who try to illegally buy firearms.

"In the Harry Reid Democrat(ic) Senate, a majority of the Senate voted in favor of Grassley-Cruz, but the Democrats filibustered it. They demanded 60 votes. They defeated it, because they wanted to go after law-abiding citizens instead of stopping the bad guys."

So even though the GOP filibustered the original bill, as well as Toomey-Mancin, somehow it is the Dems who are to blame?

But notice how Cruz failed to mention the additions he made to the original, and how he attempted to gut significant aspects. You claim I post 1/2 truths, but Cruz made this same kind of claim in regards to another shooting a few years back, and WAPO rated it 3 pinochios because of 1/2 truths...

Here is what Ted left out about his proposed amendment...Btw this analysis predates any of the 3 most recent mass shootings- MI, Buffalo and Uvalde

"Amendments aplenty were proposed and defeated. The one from Cruz and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) would have removed the core of the gun bill: the expanded background checks. The Grassley-Cruz plan instead proposed more prosecutions of gun buyers who falsely stated their criminal histories during the background-check process.

Among other changes, the Cruz amendment would have reduced penalties for states that neglected to submit records to the FBI’s centralized database for background checks of gun buyers, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The Cruz proposal also would have capped federal grants to improve states’ reporting procedures for the FBI database at $20 million, down from $100 million, and allowed for the interstate sale and transport of firearms."


Now this analysis from WAPO is from March 2021, and was prompted by earlier grandstanding by Ted regarding "his amendment". But why did he feel the need to vote against the original bill and offer this amendment instead? In his latest appearance on Fox which I quoted above, no mention of the provision allowing interstate sale and transport of firearms. I wonder why that is?

So why the insistence by Cruz on a partisan bill he sponsored, rather than voting for a bi-partisan amendment that had more support? You've spoken favorably of Cruz's amendment, so I'm curious how you felt it made Reid's bill "better" and why it was preferable to Mancin-Toomey, which is summarized here

Do you agree with Cruz's proposal to limit expanded background checks? My initial read is that Cruz's goal was to assuage the NRA (which didn't like Reid's bill) and also to resort to the old GOP standby of claiming that these mass killers are all "criminals".

But none of the 3 most recent examples are people who were "felons" illegally obtaining weapons. so none of them would have been prevented by what I read in summaries of Cruz's amendment. So I don't even see the relevance of what he said on Fox this week. It's just grandstanding, and nothing in his amendment would have prevented any of these 3 latest tragedies...
 
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I started to respond regarding the amendment last night, but thought I'd just let it die. But then you brought it up again, and implied I was ignoring you. So I have no issue revisiting what happened...

Reid proposed the Safe schools, safe communities act of 2013, in response to Sandy Hook. GOP members indicated they would Filibuster it, so in response Reid established a 60 vote requirement for all proposed amendments, and that was passed with unanimous consent and no dissent. The Grassley-Cruz Amendment garnered 52 votes and a bi-partisan amendment offered by Toomey-Mancin received 54.

Cruz recently went on Fox and said this...

"In 2013, I introduced legislation called Grassley-Cruz which targeted felons and fugitives and those with serious mental illness. It directed the Department of Justice to do an audit of federal convictions to make sure felons are in the database. It directed the Department of Justice to prosecute and put in jail felons and fugitives who try to illegally buy firearms.

"In the Harry Reid Democrat(ic) Senate, a majority of the Senate voted in favor of Grassley-Cruz, but the Democrats filibustered it. They demanded 60 votes. They defeated it, because they wanted to go after law-abiding citizens instead of stopping the bad guys."

So even though the GOP filibustered the original bill, as well as Toomey-Mancin, somehow it is the Dems who are to blame?

But notice how Cruz failed to mention the additions he made to the original, and how he attempted to gut significant aspects. You claim I post 1/2 truths, but Cruz made this same kind of claim in regards to another shooting a few years back, and WAPO rated it 3 pinochios because of 1/2 truths...

Here is what Ted left out about his proposed amendment...Btw this analysis predates any of the 3 most recent mass shootings- MI, Buffalo and Uvalde

"Amendments aplenty were proposed and defeated. The one from Cruz and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) would have removed the core of the gun bill: the expanded background checks. The Grassley-Cruz plan instead proposed more prosecutions of gun buyers who falsely stated their criminal histories during the background-check process.

Among other changes, the Cruz amendment would have reduced penalties for states that neglected to submit records to the FBI’s centralized database for background checks of gun buyers, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The Cruz proposal also would have capped federal grants to improve states’ reporting procedures for the FBI database at $20 million, down from $100 million, and allowed for the interstate sale and transport of firearms."


Now this analysis from WAPO is from March 2021, and was prompted by earlier grandstanding by Ted regarding "his amendment". But why did he feel the need to vote against the original bill and offer this amendment instead? In his latest appearance on Fox which I quoted above, no mention of the provision allowing interstate sale and transport of firearms. I wonder why that is?

So why the insistence by Cruz on a partisan bill he sponsored, rather than voting for a bi-partisan amendment that had more support? You've spoken favorably of Cruz's amendment, so I'm curious how you felt it made Reid's bill "better" and why it was preferable to Mancin-Toomey, which is summarized here

Do you agree with Cruz's proposal to limit expanded background checks? My initial read is that Cruz's goal was to assuage the NRA (which didn't like Reid's bill) and also to resort to the old GOP standby of claiming that these mass killers are all "criminals".

But none of the 3 most recent examples are people who were "felons" illegally obtaining weapons. so none of them would have been prevented by what I read in summaries of Cruz's amendment. So I don't even see the relevance of what he said on Fox this week. It's just grandstanding, and nothing in his amendment would have prevented any of these 3 latest tragedies...
As Al Franken said, “Here’s the thing you have to understand about Ted Cruz, I like Ted Cruz more than most of my other colleagues like Ted Cruz. And I hate Ted Cruz.”
 
I started to respond regarding the amendment last night, but thought I'd just let it die. But then you brought it up again, and implied I was ignoring you. So I have no issue revisiting what happened...

Reid proposed the Safe schools, safe communities act of 2013, in response to Sandy Hook. GOP members indicated they would Filibuster it, so in response Reid established a 60 vote requirement for all proposed amendments, and that was passed with unanimous consent and no dissent. The Grassley-Cruz Amendment garnered 52 votes and a bi-partisan amendment offered by Toomey-Mancin received 54.

Cruz recently went on Fox and said this...

"In 2013, I introduced legislation called Grassley-Cruz which targeted felons and fugitives and those with serious mental illness. It directed the Department of Justice to do an audit of federal convictions to make sure felons are in the database. It directed the Department of Justice to prosecute and put in jail felons and fugitives who try to illegally buy firearms.

"In the Harry Reid Democrat(ic) Senate, a majority of the Senate voted in favor of Grassley-Cruz, but the Democrats filibustered it. They demanded 60 votes. They defeated it, because they wanted to go after law-abiding citizens instead of stopping the bad guys."

So even though the GOP filibustered the original bill, as well as Toomey-Mancin, somehow it is the Dems who are to blame?

But notice how Cruz failed to mention the additions he made to the original, and how he attempted to gut significant aspects. You claim I post 1/2 truths, but Cruz made this same kind of claim in regards to another shooting a few years back, and WAPO rated it 3 pinochios because of 1/2 truths...

Here is what Ted left out about his proposed amendment...Btw this analysis predates any of the 3 most recent mass shootings- MI, Buffalo and Uvalde

"Amendments aplenty were proposed and defeated. The one from Cruz and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) would have removed the core of the gun bill: the expanded background checks. The Grassley-Cruz plan instead proposed more prosecutions of gun buyers who falsely stated their criminal histories during the background-check process.

Among other changes, the Cruz amendment would have reduced penalties for states that neglected to submit records to the FBI’s centralized database for background checks of gun buyers, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). The Cruz proposal also would have capped federal grants to improve states’ reporting procedures for the FBI database at $20 million, down from $100 million, and allowed for the interstate sale and transport of firearms."


Now this analysis from WAPO is from March 2021, and was prompted by earlier grandstanding by Ted regarding "his amendment". But why did he feel the need to vote against the original bill and offer this amendment instead? In his latest appearance on Fox which I quoted above, no mention of the provision allowing interstate sale and transport of firearms. I wonder why that is?

So why the insistence by Cruz on a partisan bill he sponsored, rather than voting for a bi-partisan amendment that had more support? You've spoken favorably of Cruz's amendment, so I'm curious how you felt it made Reid's bill "better" and why it was preferable to Mancin-Toomey, which is summarized here

Do you agree with Cruz's proposal to limit expanded background checks? My initial read is that Cruz's goal was to assuage the NRA (which didn't like Reid's bill) and also to resort to the old GOP standby of claiming that these mass killers are all "criminals".

But none of the 3 most recent examples are people who were "felons" illegally obtaining weapons. so none of them would have been prevented by what I read in summaries of Cruz's amendment. So I don't even see the relevance of what he said on Fox this week. It's just grandstanding, and nothing in his amendment would have prevented any of these 3 latest tragedies...

My point was not about agreeing or disagreeing with Cruz. It's about you failing to include the full details of the amendment. Yes, Pubs were never going to let Reid's bill pass. But dems would never let Reid's bill pass with the amendment. And the Pubs may have filibustered the bill with the amendment anyway. Who knows?

But Reid was not interested in any compromise and knew his bill would never pass. I don't believe it was even brought to the floor for a final vote.

By filibustering the amendment, am I to think Dems don't care about mental illness or school safety? Of course, I don't believe that.

I believe NEITHER side wants to address the issue, but you always seem to blame Pubs, as if the Dems care more.

Look, I don't own a gun, never will, and have only shot once in my life. I am not against permit to purchase legislation. But I am against stupid, ill informed beauracrats trying to ban something about which they are ignorant. I remember Carolyn Mc Carthy trying to tell us what a barrel shroud is and how it works by popping up on the shoulder. What an idiot.
 
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Did you intend to say 'semi-automatic'?

Automatic weapons require significant Federal license and significant expense to own legally.
The difference between an AR-15 and an M-16 is the automatic sear. With today's technology, weapons can be fabricated to be fully automatic with the proper expertise. Restricting law abiding citizens doesn't change the mindset of the demented. You have a barrell full of progressives in congress who are refusing to even consider the mental health aspect of mass shootings (i.e. better identification, classification, reporting, restrictions, etc....) even though it is a central common component of these shooters. They would much prefer to start with law-abiding gun owners....confiscation would be much more successful that way.
 
They would much prefer to start with law-abiding gun owners.
Of course because these people are the only ones that threaten (even though slightly right now) their power cabal. The nuts that use ANYTHING to kill people are their best way to stay in power because it always give them yet another tragedy that can't be allowed to go to waste.
 
The difference between an AR-15 and an M-16 is the automatic sear. With today's technology, weapons can be fabricated to be fully automatic with the proper expertise. Restricting law abiding citizens doesn't change the mindset of the demented. You have a barrell full of progressives in congress who are refusing to even consider the mental health aspect of mass shootings (i.e. better identification, classification, reporting, restrictions, etc....) even though it is a central common component of these shooters. They would much prefer to start with law-abiding gun owners....confiscation would be much more successful that way.
We’re whistling past the graveyard in many ways in this country. Depression, anxiety and suicide have all skyrocketed in recent years and nobody really wants to explore why.

It’s much much easier to blame the gun.
 
The difference between an AR-15 and an M-16 is the automatic sear. With today's technology, weapons can be fabricated to be fully automatic with the proper expertise. Restricting law abiding citizens doesn't change the mindset of the demented. You have a barrell full of progressives in congress who are refusing to even consider the mental health aspect of mass shootings (i.e. better identification, classification, reporting, restrictions, etc....) even though it is a central common component of these shooters. They would much prefer to start with law-abiding gun owners....confiscation would be much more successful that way.
This gobbledygook sounds like something Hoopsier or cray would post. Which probably is why they liked it...

Who are these "progressives" of whom you speak? The people advocating "medicare for all" which would fund the exact type of mental health and social programs that could deal with those type of issues? And the last 3 mass public shooters (MI ,Buf and Uvalde) were all "law abiding citizens" who just also happened to be demented. None of them obtained their weapon "illegally", although the kid in MI was given his by his mush for brains parents...

How exactly is anyone proposing "starting with law-abiding gun owners" by proposing raising the legal age to own an AR15, adopting universal background checks, waiting periods or red flag laws? How exactly does any of this hinder law-abiding citizens if they have nothing to hide...

And the whole "mental health" talking point would probably be better served if the Gov of the state where mass shootings are highest in the Nation (Texas) hadn't just slashed $211 MILLION from the budget of the HHSC (the agency that oversees mental health programs in Texas ) back in April.

Of course he had to fend off a primary challenge from the even crazier right wing, so he cut budgets from various state agencies to send Texas National Guard Troops to the border in his ill fated attempt at virtue signaling to wing nuts- Operation Lone Star. We can discuss that boondoggle elsewhere, but he cut more from the HHSC than any other agency, and cost the state of Texas about 4.2 Million when he instituted his "check every truck twice" farce.

So trying to lay "mental health issues" at the feet of "progressives in Congress" (whomever that is supposed to be) is the sign of someone that should probably get educated before posting nonsense...


 
This gobbledygook sounds like something Hoopsier or cray would post. Which probably is why they liked it...

Who are these "progressives" of whom you speak? The people advocating "medicare for all" which would fund the exact type of mental health and social programs that could deal with those type of issues? And the last 3 mass public shooters (MI ,Buf and Uvalde) were all "law abiding citizens" who just also happened to be demented. None of them obtained their weapon "illegally", although the kid in MI was given his by his mush for brains parents...

How exactly is anyone proposing "starting with law-abiding gun owners" by proposing raising the legal age to own an AR15, adopting universal background checks, waiting periods or red flag laws? How exactly does any of this hinder law-abiding citizens if they have nothing to hide...

And the whole "mental health" talking point would probably be better served if the Gov of the state where mass shootings are highest in the Nation (Texas) hadn't just slashed $211 MILLION from the budget of the HHSC (the agency that oversees mental health programs in Texas ) back in April.

Of course he had to fend off a primary challenge from the even crazier right wing, so he cut budgets from various state agencies to send Texas National Guard Troops to the border in his ill fated attempt at virtue signaling to wing nuts- Operation Lone Star. We can discuss that boondoggle elsewhere, but he cut more from the HHSC than any other agency, and cost the state of Texas about 4.2 Million when he instituted his "check every truck twice" farce.

So trying to lay "mental health issues" at the feet of "progressives in Congress" (whomever that is supposed to be) is the sign of someone that should probably get educated before posting nonsense...


I'll help you with just a few of the congressmen who refuse to consider the mental health component: Jamaal Bowman, Mondaire Jones and Eric Swalwell. All reject the notion outright that there is a common denominator in mass shootings. Common sense? Waiting periods for extensive background checks? OK...but who decides whether an individual has passed? Democrats have flagged "war veterans" as an inherent risk...and therefore should be considered higher risk if cleared for gun purchase. Politics is in everything, now....and governmental agencies are fully weaponized for arbitrary use. Your youth is detected in your rhetoric. BTW, all three listed above oppose arming LE in schools to harden them as potential targets.
 
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We’re whistling past the graveyard in many ways in this country. Depression, anxiety and suicide have all skyrocketed in recent years and nobody really wants to explore why.

It’s much much easier to blame the gun.
Thousands of inner city shootings/deaths in America each year due to gang violence. How many of these shooters cleared a background check, or were denied the purchase of their weapon of choice? Oh, wait....they simply bypassed existing gun laws...including in Chicago and New York, which have the toughest gun control laws on the books in America. In fact....have you even heard urban gun violence mentioned in this conversation...even though it pales in comparison, exponentially, to the "mass shooting" phenomenon?
 
The OP's irony may have escaped him or her...but it isn't lost on me. "I hope a bomb is dropped on the NRA convention". Timothy McVea couldn't have worded it any better. No gun needed....since it wasn't the gun doing the killing.
 
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SIAP: A couple of the parents of the children are apparently considering open caskets for their children, so that people will get a full understanding of the reality of the shooting. Will that have an impact on this debate? I’d suspect it will.

I love the optimism but i don't see anything really changing. How many mass shootings have we had and we still hear how we just need more good guys with guns or we need to arm teachers. Some people think the answer is always more guns rather than gun control.

Unless it happens to their kid or someone they know personally, then I don't think it will hit home. Even then, i would not be shocked if they still think more guns is the answer.
 
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My point was not about agreeing or disagreeing with Cruz. It's about you failing to include the full details of the amendment. Yes, Pubs were never going to let Reid's bill pass. But dems would never let Reid's bill pass with the amendment. And the Pubs may have filibustered the bill with the amendment anyway. Who knows?

But Reid was not interested in any compromise and knew his bill would never pass. I don't believe it was even brought to the floor for a final vote.

By filibustering the amendment, am I to think Dems don't care about mental illness or school safety? Of course, I don't believe that.

I believe NEITHER side wants to address the issue, but you always seem to blame Pubs, as if the Dems care more.

Look, I don't own a gun, never will, and have only shot once in my life. I am not against permit to purchase legislation. But I am against stupid, ill informed beauracrats trying to ban something about which they are ignorant. I remember Carolyn Mc Carthy trying to tell us what a barrel shroud is and how it works by popping up on the shoulder. What an idiot.

If Pubs cared about the issue, then they would have passed the bill without the amendment that tried to water it down.
 
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The difference between an AR-15 and an M-16 is the automatic sear. With today's technology, weapons can be fabricated to be fully automatic with the proper expertise. Restricting law abiding citizens doesn't change the mindset of the demented. You have a barrell full of progressives in congress who are refusing to even consider the mental health aspect of mass shootings (i.e. better identification, classification, reporting, restrictions, etc....) even though it is a central common component of these shooters. They would much prefer to start with law-abiding gun owners....confiscation would be much more successful that way.

Both mental health aspect and the weapons being used should be addressed.

No one needs assault rifles to defend their home. If you need one to shoot bambi, then maybe should work on your aim.
 
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The OP's irony may have escaped him or her...but it isn't lost on me. "I hope a bomb is dropped on the NRA convention". Timothy McVea couldn't have worded it any better. No gun needed....since it wasn't the gun doing the killing.

True, but I don't see bomb stores willing to sell a bomb to any tom dick and harry over 18 years old either ;)
 
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I love the optimism but i don't see anything really changing. How many mass shootings have we had and we still hear how we just need more good guys with guns or we need to arm teachers. Some people think the answer is always more guns rather than gun control.

Unless it happens to their kid or someone they know personally, then I don't think it will hit home. Even then, i would not be shocked if they still think more guns is the answer.
Define "more guns". Does't the left's refusal to install armed security in schools, as 20 blue states have already done, amount to "less guns"? There is absolutely room for both 2nd Amendment protections and common sense gun control. But if you look at gun legislation proposed by the left, and the devil in the details...you will find out why those proposals are rejected outright....and have been for decades. The same people who support "federal" abortion protection laws, at the exclusion of states rights, will tell you that federal gun law restrictions are needed at the expense of state gun law ownership protections. Cultural factors are totally ignored, such as virtual reality video games which desensitize mass shooting; even though many of these shooters are saturated with playing these "games" for hours at a time. Hollywood violence, much? And how much more graphic is it today? Which movies in theaters right now do now involve guns? Very few. Yet, these influences are ignored. Why? $$$$$. Mental health factors, and the need to address them prior to gun ownership are non-essential, according to democrat politicians. They see the problem as the gun...not the shooter. Gun control, as authored by the left, always targets the law-abiding first, and foremost. Why? We are the "soft target".
 
True, but I don't see bomb stores willing to sell a bomb to any tom dick and harry over 18 years old either ;)
Apparently, you know little about Timothy McVea....and his "home-made" bomb...complete with fertilizer, ammonia and other readily-available household materials, which were combined to create a bomb that killed ten times the number in Uvalde.
 
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Define "more guns". Does't the left's refusal to install armed security in schools, as 20 blue states have already done, amount to "less guns"? There is absolutely room for both 2nd Amendment protections and common sense gun control. But if you look at gun legislation proposed by the left, and the devil in the details...you will find out why those proposals are rejected outright....and have been for decades. The same people who support "federal" abortion protection laws, at the exclusion of states rights, will tell you that federal gun law restrictions are needed at the expense of state gun law ownership protections. Cultural factors are totally ignored, such as virtual reality video games which desensitize mass shooting; even though many of these shooters are saturated with playing these "games" for hours at a time. Hollywood violence, much? And how much more graphic is it today? Which movies in theaters right now do now involve guns? Very few. Yet, these influences are ignored. Why? $$$$$. Mental health factors, and the need to address them prior to gun ownership are non-essential, according to democrat politicians. They see the problem as the gun...not the shooter. Gun control, as authored by the left, always targets the law-abiding first, and foremost. Why? We are the "soft target".

Why don't you look at countries with common sense gun control?

Less shootings

wow, what a coincidence. lmao

Only thing keeping us from that is dumb republicans.

Republicans want to blame everything under the sun so they can "keep ma guns". It's pretty simple though and addressing mental issues can also be addressed. it's not an either/or. But addressing mental issues won't solve anything by itself. Blaming movies/video games is nothing but a "look over there". Those other countries with gun control have access to video games and movies. But yet.....no mass shootings. who would have thought it.
 
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Of course if guns go away then bombs will be the next tool. Seems the democrats are fully supportive of bombs.

If Joe Biden has mental capacity left to remember how he loves wars, I'm sure he can't wait to get get the black market on guns ramped up to spend countless amounts of money on another war. The ATF killed plenty in Waco 30 so years so they likely can't wait get back at it. To bad someone didn't put Bedo or whatever that clowns name is 6 feet under. IMO, Americans are already at war with the Democratic party that needs removed from society. They only care about themselves and power and who they can blame next for something that goes wrong. Kerr alluded to it and Elon musk also alludes to it. Bedo couldn't wait to get film for a TV political commercial in the upcoming election.
the irony of you commenting on mental capacity of someone isn't lost on me like it probably is on you
 
Setting aside the rhetoric for a moment the question remains - what law can be passed that a criminal will not break? If they followed laws they would not be criminals and this would not be an issue. Murder is against the law already.

If the idea is strict gun laws result in less violent crime how do you explain Chicago?

At Uvalde, like many other examples, the only thing that stopped the shooter was someone with a gun brave enough to go in. No idea what the police were thinking but it is a clear example you can't count on the police to come and save you when your life is threatened.

This is why law abiding Americans must retain the right to keep and bear arms. It cannot be a case where your family is on the line and you're hoping the police eventually show up.
 
Setting aside the rhetoric for a moment the question remains - what law can be passed that a criminal will not break? If they followed laws they would not be criminals and this would not be an issue. Murder is against the law already.

If the idea is strict gun laws result in less violent crime how do you explain Chicago?

At Uvalde, like many other examples, the only thing that stopped the shooter was someone with a gun brave enough to go in. No idea what the police were thinking but it is a clear example you can't count on the police to come and save you when your life is threatened.

This is why law abiding Americans must retain the right to keep and bear arms. It cannot be a case where your family is on the line and you're hoping the police eventually show up.
We have laws about speeding because research shows that driving at higher speeds is dangerous. Some roads allow higher speeds than others, but it is generally accepted that driving 65 thru a neighborhood isn't safe and will lead to more accidents/injuries/deaths. Driving 120 on a highway is likely to do the same.

Do people break those laws? Yes, they do.

Should we not have those laws since people break them anyway? Throw our hands up? Drive however you want, wherever you want.
 
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Setting aside the rhetoric for a moment the question remains - what law can be passed that a criminal will not break? If they followed laws they would not be criminals and this would not be an issue. Murder is against the law already.

If the idea is strict gun laws result in less violent crime how do you explain Chicago?

At Uvalde, like many other examples, the only thing that stopped the shooter was someone with a gun brave enough to go in. No idea what the police were thinking but it is a clear example you can't count on the police to come and save you when your life is threatened.

This is why law abiding Americans must retain the right to keep and bear arms. It cannot be a case where your family is on the line and you're hoping the police eventually show up.

Good question asked by Eurocyldon as per the following ...

If the idea is strict gun laws result in less violent crime how do you explain Chicago?

An answer might be, local strict laws are not the answer as guns will simply be purchased elsewhere as this link reminds us. The link in part states the following...

Nearly 60 percent of guns recovered in Chicago come from out-of-state dealers, with more than 20 percent traced back to Indiana, according to a newly released report on the city’s violence.
 
We have laws about speeding because research shows that driving at higher speeds is dangerous. Some roads allow higher speeds than others, but it is generally accepted that driving 65 thru a neighborhood isn't safe and will lead to more accidents/injuries/deaths. Driving 120 on a highway is likely to do the same.

Do people break those laws? Yes, they do.

Should we not have those laws since people break them anyway? Throw our hands up? Drive however you want, wherever you want.
Actually, it is against the law to drive too slow also....So I guess we can assume that it should be illegal to own too few guns?
 
Good question asked by Eurocyldon as per the following ...

If the idea is strict gun laws result in less violent crime how do you explain Chicago?

An answer might be, local strict laws are not the answer as guns will simply be purchased elsewhere as this link reminds us. The link in part states the following...

Nearly 60 percent of guns recovered in Chicago come from out-of-state dealers, with more than 20 percent traced back to Indiana, according to a newly released report on the city’s violence.
So then "when" we have federal laws forbidding guns, we then go to Canada, Mexico...... etc and the beat goes on. At least then we can start on the International law, no more guns. It's the perfect set up actually.
Don't bother replying that this is silly and impossible. If people want guns, we will get guns.
 
So then "when" we have federal laws forbidding guns, we then go to Canada, Mexico...... etc and the beat goes on. At least then we can start on the International law, no more guns. It's the perfect set up actually.
Don't bother replying that this is silly and impossible. If people want guns, we will get guns.
I bet not many teens are going to have the means to venture to Mexico and Canada to get their ARs and body armor.

But I'll tell you what, you help get us to the point where that's what we have to worry about, then I think we'll be in a pretty good spot.
 
So then "when" we have federal laws forbidding guns, we then go to Canada, Mexico...... etc and the beat goes on. At least then we can start on the International law, no more guns. It's the perfect set up actually.
Don't bother replying that this is silly and impossible. If people want guns, we will get guns.
Unlike going from Indiana to Illinois, cars can be searched crossing national borders.
 
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