I’m not discouraged by yesterday

[gator mcCluskey]

I don’t believe in moral victories and everyone knows I’m not one of the sunshine pumpers on here, but after yesterday I actually feel more optimistic about the season in general. If the team can bring this kind of effort on a consistent basis we’re going to have some success in the B10 and easily exceed the “experts’ opinion” on where we’ll end up.

That said, I was very disappointed in Mgbako’s effort after he got the 4th foul. He was worthless when he came back into the game late. I thought he had a shot at a key rebound down the stretch and he didn’t even try. Seems like one of those guys who thinks he plays hard but really has no concept of what that means yet. Which is very frustrating because his potential huge. Woody needs to wake him up and let him know what time it is in practice here before the new year.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I don’t believe in moral victories and everyone knows I’m not one of the sunshine pumpers on here, but after yesterday I actually feel more optimistic about the season in general. If the team can bring this kind of effort on a consistent basis we’re going to have some success in the B10 and easily exceed the “experts’ opinion” on where we’ll end up.

That said, I was very disappointed in Mgbako’s effort after he got the 4th foul. He was worthless when he came back into the game late. I thought he had a shot at a key rebound down the stretch and he didn’t even try. Seems like one of those guys who thinks he plays hard but really has no concept of what that means yet. Which is very frustrating because his potential huge. Woody needs to wake him up and let him know what time it is in practice here before the new year.

It’s nap season for Woody. He’s not waking up anytime soon.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

I don’t believe in moral victories and everyone knows I’m not one of the sunshine pumpers on here, but after yesterday I actually feel more optimistic about the season in general. If the team can bring this kind of effort on a consistent basis we’re going to have some success in the B10 and easily exceed the “experts’ opinion” on where we’ll end up.

That said, I was very disappointed in Mgbako’s effort after he got the 4th foul. He was worthless when he came back into the game late. I thought he had a shot at a key rebound down the stretch and he didn’t even try. Seems like one of those guys who thinks he plays hard but really has no concept of what that means yet. Which is very frustrating because his potential huge. Woody needs to wake him up and let him know what time it is in practice here before the new year.

Frustrating loss, but the team as a whole is getting better. Unfortunately, the growth is limited to Ware, Malik, TG, and MM. And to a lesser degree - Cupps and Walker. Gunn seems lost. Banks would be better if he would just stop thinking about scoring. MM is growing by leaps and bounds. His effort and confidence are growing. He is going to have occasional lapses, but so is every other player. That was a big stage and he showed up.
As many have said, this team could take off if X can make a fast successful return. Cupps is doing his job, but we need a year 3 Cupps right now, not a year 1 Cupps. Not his fault.

 

[bailey777]

Frustrating loss, but the team as a whole is getting better. Unfortunately, the growth is limited to Ware, Malik, TG, and MM. And to a lesser degree - Cupps and Walker. Gunn seems lost. Banks would be better if he would just stop thinking about scoring. MM is growing by leaps and bounds. His effort and confidence are growing. He is going to have occasional lapses, but so is every other player. That was a big stage and he showed up.
As many have said, this team could take off if X can make a fast successful return. Cupps is doing his job, but we need a year 3 Cupps right now, not a year 1 Cupps. Not his fault.

Gunn needs to transfer he is worthless.

 

[Univee2]

I don’t believe in moral victories and everyone knows I’m not one of the sunshine pumpers on here, but after yesterday I actually feel more optimistic about the season in general. If the team can bring this kind of effort on a consistent basis we’re going to have some success in the B10 and easily exceed the “experts’ opinion” on where we’ll end up.

That said, I was very disappointed in Mgbako’s effort after he got the 4th foul. He was worthless when he came back into the game late. I thought he had a shot at a key rebound down the stretch and he didn’t even try. Seems like one of those guys who thinks he plays hard but really has no concept of what that means yet. Which is very frustrating because his potential huge. Woody needs to wake him up and let him know what time it is in practice here before the new year.

Needs to watch some Oladipo workout videos.

 

[YOTHN]

I don’t believe in moral victories and everyone knows I’m not one of the sunshine pumpers on here, but after yesterday I actually feel more optimistic about the season in general. If the team can bring this kind of effort on a consistent basis we’re going to have some success in the B10 and easily exceed the “experts’ opinion” on where we’ll end up.

That said, I was very disappointed in Mgbako’s effort after he got the 4th foul. He was worthless when he came back into the game late. I thought he had a shot at a key rebound down the stretch and he didn’t even try. Seems like one of those guys who thinks he plays hard but really has no concept of what that means yet. Which is very frustrating because his potential huge. Woody needs to wake him up and let him know what time it is in practice here before the new year.

The most disappointing thing of this team is the lack of consistency. Even within each game as was evidenced late in the game yesterday. It's not that talent.....its the consistency. If the players gave that much effort in just half of the games we play this year, we would at least be a tournament team. But its going to be the factor of whether or not CMW can get this team to do that.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

The most disappointing thing of this team is the lack of consistency. Even within each game as was evidenced late in the game yesterday. It's not that talent.....its the consistency. If the players gave that much effort in just half of the games we play this year, we would at least be a tournament team. But its going to be the factor of whether or not CMW can get this team to do that.

They were a bit gassed late and the foul trouble hurt. Kan got hot at the right time. X would have helped a lot.

Way too many turnovers

The good news is that the kids should understand that they can play with anyone even short handed and with turnover issues.

The other silver lining is that Cupps is coming along in X's absense....he defends well against superior athletes and makes good decisions. Need to get him confident in his shot. He is a leader already, you can see him direct traffic and talk with guys during time outs.

 

[Bucket Getter]

They were a bit gassed late and the foul trouble hurt. Kan got hot at the right time. X would have helped a lot.

Way too many turnovers

The good news is that the kids should understand that they can play with anyone even short handed and with turnover issues.

The other silver lining is that Cupps is coming along in X's absense....he defends well against superior athletes and makes good decisions. Need to get him confident in his shot. He is a leader already, you can see him direct traffic and talk with guys during time outs.

As others have pointed out in previous posts, Cupps is never going to be a decent shooter until someone teaches him to go straight up and down. He drifts on virtually every shot he takes. Go back and watch Malik’s 2 three pointers. His feet are pointed sideways instead of toward the basket. With 3 great shooters on staff, I’m not sure how our fundamentals are so bad.

 

[steelyvan]

As others have pointed out in previous posts, Cupps is never going to be a decent shooter until someone teaches him to go straight up and down. He drifts on virtually every shot he takes. Go back and watch Malik’s 2 three pointers. His feet are pointed sideways instead of toward the basket. With 3 great shooters on staff, I’m not sure how our fundamentals are so bad.

Because the players have to commit to improving their fundamentals. Coaches cant shoot during games, much as we'd like that based on our bench.

 

[TR32]

Frustrating loss, but the team as a whole is getting better. Unfortunately, the growth is limited to Ware, Malik, TG, and MM. And to a lesser degree - Cupps and Walker. Gunn seems lost. Banks would be better if he would just stop thinking about scoring. MM is growing by leaps and bounds. His effort and confidence are growing. He is going to have occasional lapses, but so is every other player. That was a big stage and he showed up.
As many have said, this team could take off if X can make a fast successful return. Cupps is doing his job, but we need a year 3 Cupps right now, not a year 1 Cupps. Not his fault.

This team has to play better defense to have any chance. Mgbako and Reneau are killing IU defensively in big games. Think Bracey Wright- scores meaningless points in losses.

With Reneau it is boxing out and rebounding. With Mgbako its nearly everything except making shots.

 

[sglowrider]

Gunn needs to transfer he is worthless.

 

[stollcpa]

I am rooting hard for Gunn. He must be on a short leash. Saturday he was in the game for what seemed like a minute. Woodson took him out and look disgusted when Gunn passed him heading back to his seat on the bench.

 

[Beorik]

Gunn needs to transfer he is worthless.

We do not want Gunn to leave. Or Banks for that matter. Many, many college players are the best version of themselves as jr and sr. We do not want an endless cycle of playing Fr and So with a couple transfers. Gunn and Banks still have 2.5 years to develop into key players or good roll players. Everyone doesn’t get it at the same schedule.

 

[UTFO]

It’s nap season for Woody. He’s not waking up anytime soon.

Is mid/late 60s old?

There's gotta be some other middle age men around here who find this whole agism thing weak sauce.

Coach Knight could be 90 and farting around the sideline, and these same people would stand in awe of it.

 

[go_iu]

I don’t believe in moral victories and everyone knows I’m not one of the sunshine pumpers on here, but after yesterday I actually feel more optimistic about the season in general. If the team can bring this kind of effort on a consistent basis we’re going to have some success in the B10 and easily exceed the “experts’ opinion” on where we’ll end up.

That said, I was very disappointed in Mgbako’s effort after he got the 4th foul. He was worthless when he came back into the game late. I thought he had a shot at a key rebound down the stretch and he didn’t even try. Seems like one of those guys who thinks he plays hard but really has no concept of what that means yet. Which is very frustrating because his potential huge. Woody needs to wake him up and let him know what time it is in practice here before the new year.

I see that too and a team that in all honestly might gain more confidence by less coaching and substations. All you need is a 3 man game with Ware, MM, and Cupps. Galloway needs to come off the bench period. X needs to just be the 2 he is. Renault is perfect, just quit the blockhead cheap fouls and he can be more aggressive and out there longer. That's all that needs to happen.

 

[VanPastorMan]

We do not want Gunn to leave. Or Banks for that matter. Many, many college players are the best version of themselves as jr and sr. We do not want an endless cycle of playing Fr and So with a couple transfers. Gunn and Banks still have 2.5 years to develop into key players or good roll players. Everyone doesn’t get it at the same schedule.

True. They have to be coached up.

 

[CriticArisen]

I am rooting hard for Gunn. He must be on a short leash. Saturday he was in the game for what seemed like a minute. Woodson took him out and look disgusted when Gunn passed him heading back to his seat on the bench.

The CBS telecast was horrible as usual. Gunn came into the game, missed a free throw, missed a jump shot, and left the game. The only time they mentioned his name was when he missed the jump shot.

 

[kkott]

I see that too and a team that in all honestly might gain more confidence by less coaching and substations. All you need is a 3 man game with Ware, MM, and Cupps. Galloway needs to come off the bench period. X needs to just be the 2 he is. Renault is perfect, just quit the blockhead cheap fouls and he can be more aggressive and out there longer. That's all that needs to happen.

3 man game that doesn't include Reanu? He's by far our best low post option and I think has better hands and feet than Ware, although not the touch outside. And, yes, he needs to be more aggressive on the boards. No reason with his body he shouldn't be getting 8+ rpg. In an ideal world, Galloway I think would come off the bench, but it's not happening with this roster. When/if X comes back it will be Cupps going to the bench I'd imagine and that's where he should be as a freshman. Galloway remains a starter.

 

[stollcpa]

The CBS telecast was horrible as usual. Gunn came into the game, missed a free throw, missed a jump shot, and left the game. The only time they mentioned his name was when he missed the jump shot.

Surely something else went on?

 

[IUNorth]

As others have pointed out in previous posts, Cupps is never going to be a decent shooter until someone teaches him to go straight up and down. He drifts on virtually every shot he takes. Go back and watch Malik’s 2 three pointers. His feet are pointed sideways instead of toward the basket. With 3 great shooters on staff, I’m not sure how our fundamentals are so bad.

Haven't looked specifically at Reneau's form...but pretty much every single great modern day shooter angles their feet at least slightly to their offhand side when shooting. Its much more natural, and allows for a straighter, more direct shooting motion with the shooting arm going straight towards the basket. A truly square setup forces the shooting motion to "come back inside", back towards the basket.

Klay Thompson, widely regarded as the "most square" shooter in today's game, even angles his feet slightly to the left. Curry is much more pronounced. KD is an example of a shooter that REALLY angles his feet left.

Cheaney and Hulls both had their feet angled...to use a couple of the coaches you're likely referencing.

 

[bailey777]

I am rooting hard for Gunn. He must be on a short leash. Saturday he was in the game for what seemed like a minute. Woodson took him out and look disgusted when Gunn passed him heading back to his seat on the bench.

He just does not have it for high division one. Remember he was an archie recruit woodson may never had even recruited him but he kept him as I guess that is what you do. If he had gotten a portal guard which seemed like a no brainer I doubt he would ever snigg the floor for even a second. He only gets in at all cause we got nobody else. Oh had caleb love who was not wanted by this board had 29 on saturday.

 

[CriticArisen]

Haven't looked specifically at Reneau's form...but pretty much every single great modern day shooter angles their feet at least slightly to their offhand side when shooting. Its much more natural, and allows for a straighter, more direct shooting motion with the shooting arm going straight towards the basket. A truly square setup forces the shooting motion to "come back inside", back towards the basket.

Klay Thompson, widely regarded as the "most square" shooter in today's game, even angles his feet slightly to the left. Curry is much more pronounced. KD is an example of a shooter that

Cheaney and Hulls both had their feet angled...to use a couple of the coaches you're likely referencing.

Before his injury he was just as good a shot as SC.

 

[bailey777]

The CBS telecast was horrible as usual. Gunn came into the game, missed a free throw, missed a jump shot, and left the game. The only time they mentioned his name was when he missed the jump shot.

Gunn would never sniff the floor is he had gotten another guard like most coaches would have.

 

[CriticArisen]

Gunn would never sniff the floor is he had gotten another guard like most coaches would have.

I‘m afraid he has tried to take the easy route. Get the NIL money people, and much of the fan base, convinced it is going great by signing some five star. Some one and done five star means little if you aren’t building a strong program otherwise. When he took a victory lap just before the season by saying-and some said we wouldn’t be able to recruit-I thought holy shit before they even played a game. Not good-bad karma.

 

[IUNorth]

Before his injury he was just as good a shot as SC.

I don't think anyone is just as good a shot as Curry. But Thompson was probably as close as anyone could be before his injuries. Ray Allen was up there. Obviously Bird. Maravich too... But I don't think any of them, as phenomenal as they were as shooters, are any where near what Curry is.

As much praise as Curry gets, I still don't think people give him enough credit for how accurate a shooter he is, despite the defensive attention he draws night in and night out.

Thompson MIGHT be able to hang with Curry in some sort of open, stationary jumper contest. Start throwing movement into it, shooting off the dribble, shooting while contested...and it separates pretty quickly.

 

[CriticArisen]

I don't think anyone is just as good a shot as Curry. But Thompson was probably as close as anyone could be before his injuries. Ray Allen was up there. Obviously Bird. Maravich too... But I don't think any of them, as phenomenal as they were as shooters, are any where near what Curry is.

As much praise as Curry gets, I still don't think people give him enough credit for how accurate a shooter he is, despite the defensive attention he draws night in and night out.

Thompson MIGHT be able to hang with Curry in some sort of open, stationary jumper contest. Start throwing movement into it, shooting off the dribble, shooting while contested...and it separates pretty quickly.

I respect curry’s shooting as much as anyone. The playoffs before he was injured I thought-holy shit Thompson is outshooting Steph. I haven’t gone back and found the stats and just based on my remembrance of that series.

Also before you crown SC as best ever-you haven't seen my shot.

There were some posts about extension on jump shots. I was in complete awe when I first saw how high Mitch Richmond got on his jumpers.

Alford could stroke it but was limited in creating shots on his own vs nba caliber athletes.

 

[IUNorth]

I respect curry’s shooting as much as anyone. The playoffs before he was injured I thought-holy shit Thompson is outshooting Steph. I haven’t gone back and found the stats and just based on my remembrance of that series.

Also before you crown SC as best ever-you haven't seen my shot.

There were some posts about extension on jump shots. I was in complete awe when I first saw how high Mitch Richmond got on his jumpers.

Alford could stroke it but was limited in creating shots on his own vs nba caliber athletes.

With respect to shooting the basketball, this is like Mantle vs. Mays type comparison. Thompson, I'm sure, had some stretches, maybe even seasons, where his percentages rivaled or even topped Curry's. But the gravity and attention Curry draws from opponents defensively has to be factored in. Both in how impressive it is that Curry is still able to shoot it as well as he does, but also with how much attention and pressure it takes off his teammates.

No one is likely leaving Klay Thompson open, but they're also not doubling him, blitzing any ball screeen he's coming off of, ensuring that they're bodying him on any and all movement, etc... And then when Steph comes his way, there is always gravity that pulls defenders towards him. And even if its just a step or two, Klay benefits off that and Steph usually doesn't.

And I also think Steph smokes him in a horse competition as well...but that game might take 3-4 hours. God that would be beautiful to watch.

 

[CriticArisen]

There was a guy like 4 or 5 years ahead of me in school (I went to a small K-12 school) that really did shoot rainbows but was a good shooter. I don’t remember anyone having higher arc on his shot. I always thought JHS had a really low trajectory 3.

 

[CriticArisen]

With respect to shooting the basketball, this is like Mantle vs. Mays type comparison. Thompson, I'm sure, had some stretches, maybe even seasons, where his percentages rivaled or even topped Curry's. But the gravity and attention Curry draws from opponents defensively has to be factored in. Both in how impressive it is that Curry is still able to shoot it as well as he does, but also with how much attention and pressure it takes off his teammates.

No one is likely leaving Klay Thompson open, but they're also not doubling him, blitzing any ball screeen he's coming off of, ensuring that they're bodying him on any and all movement, etc... And then when Steph comes his way, there is always gravity that pulls defenders towards him. And even if its just a step or two, Klay benefits off that and Steph usually doesn't.

And I also think Steph smokes him in a horse competition as well...but that game might take 3-4 hours. God that would be beautiful to watch.

His shots from the tunnel coming out of the locker room are just impossible. Some kind of trick.

 

[kkott]

There was a guy like 4 or 5 years ahead of me in school (I went to a small K-12 school) that really did shoot rainbows but was a good shooter. I don’t remember anyone having higher arc on his shot. I always thought JHS had a really low trajectory 3.

I saw a video once on the perfect shooting angle/arc and it is actually a good bit higher than most might think. They superimposed Birds arc on the "perfect" arc and it was basically identical. I'm just saying I think most really good shooters are shooting with a lot of arc, that many might call "rainbow" jumpers.

 

[CriticArisen]

Honestly my jump shot pretty much sucks. My muscle memory has some form of dementia. My proprioceptor system must have been damaged somewhere along the line.

 

[CriticArisen]

I saw a video once on the perfect shooting angle/arc and it is actually a good bit higher than most might think. They superimposed Birds arc on the "perfect" arc and it was basically identical. I'm just saying I think most really good shooters are shooting with a lot of arc, that many might call "rainbow" jumpers.

I always thought Bird had a great trajectory. My definition of rainbow shooter is higher arc than that.

 

[CriticArisen]

With respect to shooting the basketball, this is like Mantle vs. Mays type comparison. Thompson, I'm sure, had some stretches, maybe even seasons, where his percentages rivaled or even topped Curry's. But the gravity and attention Curry draws from opponents defensively has to be factored in. Both in how impressive it is that Curry is still able to shoot it as well as he does, but also with how much attention and pressure it takes off his teammates.

No one is likely leaving Klay Thompson open, but they're also not doubling him, blitzing any ball screeen he's coming off of, ensuring that they're bodying him on any and all movement, etc... And then when Steph comes his way, there is always gravity that pulls defenders towards him. And even if its just a step or two, Klay benefits off that and Steph usually doesn't.

And I also think Steph smokes him in a horse competition as well...but that game might take 3-4 hours. God that would be beautiful to watch.

I looked up the stats and it was the 2019 finals against the raptors. KT was injured in game 6 but in first five games he averaged 26 ppg and was 24/41 from 3 for 58.5% and SC averaged 30 ppg for the full six games and was 23/67 for the six games from 3 for 34%. It was quite a shooting display by Thompson before the torn ACL in game 6.

 

[dbmhoosier]

I don’t believe in moral victories and everyone knows I’m not one of the sunshine pumpers on here, but after yesterday I actually feel more optimistic about the season in general. If the team can bring this kind of effort on a consistent basis we’re going to have some success in the B10 and easily exceed the “experts’ opinion” on where we’ll end up.

That said, I was very disappointed in Mgbako’s effort after he got the 4th foul. He was worthless when he came back into the game late. I thought he had a shot at a key rebound down the stretch and he didn’t even try. Seems like one of those guys who thinks he plays hard but really has no concept of what that means yet. Which is very frustrating because his potential huge. Woody needs to wake him up and let him know what time it is in practice here before the new year.

Thankfully you're in the minority.

 

[IUNorth]

I looked up the stats and it was the 2019 finals against the raptors. KT was injured in game 6 but in first five games he averaged 26 ppg and was 24/41 from 3 for 58.5% and SC averaged 30 ppg for the full six games and was 23/67 for the six games from 3 for 34%. It was quite a shooting display by Thompson before the torn ACL in game 6.

Yeah, that Raptors team beat the heck out of Steph all series. And Klay was at his best, without question, until his injury. He got A LOT of great looks that series though. I even remember announcers talking about it in the early games of the series. They put Steph through the meat grinder. That series caused Steph to change his workout and conditioning regiments. He gained like 5-10 pounds of muscle, and "reinvented" his career after that, to become much more of a 3 level scorer.

 

[ams66]

Thankfully you're in the minority.

View embedded media

Totally unsurprising those cupcake games during break never draw big crowds, even in the RMK days those were the ones for which it was easy to get tickets.

 

[CriticArisen]

Yeah, that Raptors team beat the heck out of Steph all series. And Klay was at his best, without question, until his injury. He got A LOT of great looks that series though. I even remember announcers talking about it in the early games of the series. They put Steph through the meat grinder. That series caused Steph to change his workout and conditioning regiments. He gained like 5-10 pounds of muscle, and "reinvented" his career after that, to become much more of a 3 level scorer.

I just remember KT looking like a determined force of nature banging in shots. I am sure he had open looks but he was also hitting contested shots. I am not going to look up video replays.

 

[kkott]

Gunn would never sniff the floor is he had gotten another guard like most coaches would have.

I like when folks state who they wanted, rather than just complaining we didn't get anyone. My recollection is that CMW was definitely pursuing guards or at least wings/shooters in the portal. Sometimes the players already have an interest/agreement to go somewhere before they even declare, and other times there just aren't that many realistic options. I believe we pursued Love, at least before he tried UM, Timberlake, Ledlum, and Knecht, and maybe others? I remember Painter tried to get a lot of PGs last year and struck out, opening the door for Smith at PU.

 

[dbmhoosier]

I like when folks state who they wanted, rather than just complaining we didn't get anyone. My recollection is that CMW was definitely pursuing guards or at least wings/shooters in the portal. Sometimes the players already have an interest/agreement to go somewhere before they even declare, and other times there just aren't that many realistic options. I believe we pursued Love, at least before he tried UM, Timberlake, Ledlum, and Knecht, and maybe others? I remember Painter tried to get a lot of PGs last year and struck out, opening the door for Smith at PU.

I wanted Love from UNC.

 

[bawlmer]

Gunn needs to transfer he is worthless.

Many here feel the same about you.