How do you teach your child about love? (Long, DFW-style)

[BradStevens]

After listening (1) to this song that popped into my head,



the glorious Spotify algorithm played this one next




One is about true love, the other about death. But this line in Avett Brothers hits me hard:

Will I join with the ocean blue?
Or run into a savior true?
And shake hands laughing
And walk through the night, straight to the light
Holding the love I've known in my life
And no hard feelings

Are death and love interwined in some way? (2) I don't know. But the emotions generated by songs about them move me, maybe not in the same way, but here I find them linked--maybe by the Beauty (capitalized for a reason) of the song. I'm moved every time I hear it (and the music video I find just as powerful).

To the point of the post title, though, both songs made me think about how to teach my children about love. I have failed as a parent in this area, and it's probably too late: daughter is nearly 17 and son is 14. Like most things, I suspect this must be inculcated at a young age, and that depresses me to no end because I'm sure my marriage is not a loving one and that is the model they have witnessed and lived in for their entire lives.

But the Avett Brothers line reminded me, love takes many forms. Romantic love with a partner isn't everything--even if at times in my life I thought it was the most important thing there is, which the first song always exemplified for me. At this stage, in fact, I can imagine no greater love than a parent for their child. (3)

So there are many forms of love. Many types that my children hopefully will experience, but that it might be helpful to have some tips on, advice for things to avoid or to look out for, to navigate around or to push right through. (4) Here, I've had a lot of experience and feel as if I could provide some rough guidance. I'm starting to imagine ways to talk to my kids about this. Part of me wishes I could just mainline these two songs into my kids' (and my wife's) psyche, just feed them the emotions I feel when I listen to them, have them experience the same, and just know--both that part of me that feels these things and what I think the songs' meanings are. Language, after all, has its limits.

Obviously, even thinking about how or whether to communicate these things feels awkward--for them and me. Weirder still, as I imagine it, I'm sure my wife might have a vastly different perspective. And I have no example to refer to: like most here, I'm a solid Midwesterner whose parents would never have even thought about talking about this (or like this) with me.

So some questions for discussion, for a sampling of perspectives from different people, and maybe for me and others to learn from:

For parents of adult children, did you do this with your children? How do you think about these issues? Do you think your kids have similar views on love--romantic or otherwise--as you do? Do you want them to? Does that make you feel a certain way?

For the parents with young children, same questions and an additional one: is this something you've thought about or do? If so, how?

For everyone, what do you think is the best way to go about this?


*****************

Footnotes (I put these in to improve the flow above and for some reason don't want to delete the content. Ignore if you wish):

(1) For a multimedia experience, feel free to read this while listening or listen first to set the mood.

(2) This is an interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree with it. https://emergencemagazine.org/essay/on-death-and-love/

(3) This might not be universal, I think. Some people might not experience this in the same way given a bad hand being dealt, like a severely troubled child from a young age. I was making small talk with a lawyer I was networking with last year, and brought up my kids and asked if he had any. He told me the story of adopting, along with his partner (gay couple) two children from Russia and their severe mental and developmental issues discovered later. He was clearly torn by the experience and I think about him to this day. For a pretty powerful single episode of TV about this, check out Episode 7 of the Romanoffs, the Amazon series Matthew Weiner did after Mad Men.

(4) There are downsides to love: https://www.psypost.org/loves-downside-research-identifies-major-disadvantages-of-romantic-partnerships/#:~:text=The most significant factors included,critical disadvantages compared to men.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

After listening (1) to this song that popped into my head,

View embedded media

the glorious Spotify algorithm played this one next

View embedded media

One is about true love, the other about death. But this line in Avett Brothers hits me hard:

Will I join with the ocean blue?
Or run into a savior true?
And shake hands laughing
And walk through the night, straight to the light
Holding the love I've known in my life
And no hard feelings

Are death and love interwined in some way? (2) I don't know. But the emotions generated by songs about them move me, maybe not in the same way, but here I find them linked--maybe by the Beauty (capitalized for a reason) of the song. I'm moved every time I hear it (and the music video I find just as powerful).

To the point of the post title, though, both songs made me think about how to teach my children about love. I have failed as a parent in this area, and it's probably too late: daughter is nearly 17 and son is 14. Like most things, I suspect this must be inculcated at a young age, and that depresses me to no end because I'm sure my marriage is not a loving one and that is the model they have witnessed and lived in for their entire lives.

But the Avett Brothers line reminded me, love takes many forms. Romantic love with a partner isn't everything--even if at times in my life I thought it was the most important thing there is, which the first song always exemplified for me. At this stage, in fact, I can imagine no greater love than a parent for their child. (3)

So there are many forms of love. Many types that my children hopefully will experience, but that it might be helpful to have some tips on, advice for things to avoid or to look out for, to navigate around or to push right through. (4) Here, I've had a lot of experience and feel as if I could provide some rough guidance. I'm starting to imagine ways to talk to my kids about this. Part of me wishes I could just mainline these two songs into my kids' (and my wife's) psyche, just feed them the emotions I feel when I listen to them, have them experience the same, and just know--both that part of me that feels these things and what I think the songs' meanings are. Language, after all, has its limits.

Obviously, even thinking about how or whether to communicate these things feels awkward--for them and me. Weirder still, as I imagine it, I'm sure my wife might have a vastly different perspective. And I have no example to refer to: like most here, I'm a solid Midwesterner whose parents would never have even thought about talking about this (or like this) with me.

So some questions for discussion, for a sampling of perspectives from different people, and maybe for me and others to learn from:

For parents of adult children, did you do this with your children? How do you think about these issues? Do you think your kids have similar views on love--romantic or otherwise--as you do? Do you want them to? Does that make you feel a certain way?

For the parents with young children, same questions and an additional one: is this something you've thought about or do? If so, how?

For everyone, what do you think is the best way to go about this?


*****************

Footnotes (I put these in to improve the flow above and for some reason don't want to delete the content. Ignore if you wish):

(1) For a multimedia experience, feel free to read this while listening or listen first to set the mood.

(2) This is an interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree with it. https://emergencemagazine.org/essay/on-death-and-love/

(3) This might not be universal, I think. Some people might not experience this in the same way given a bad hand being dealt, like a severely troubled child from a young age. I was making small talk with a lawyer I was networking with last year, and brought up my kids and asked if he had any. He told me the story of adopting, along with his partner (gay couple) two children from Russia and their severe mental and developmental issues discovered later. He was clearly torn by the experience and I think about him to this day. For a pretty powerful single episode of TV about this, check out Episode 7 of the Romanoffs, the Amazon series Matthew Weiner did after Mad Men.

(4) There are downsides to love: https://www.psypost.org/loves-downside-research-identifies-major-disadvantages-of-romantic-partnerships/#:~:text=The most significant factors included,critical disadvantages compared to men.

You should have tagged @mcmurtry66 to see what he says.

What could go wrong there?

 

[mcmurtry66]

You should have tagged @mcmurtry66 to see what he says.

What could go wrong there?

Bitch mother fckr

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Bitch mother fckr

Now that’s true love

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

I’ve always told my kids your immediate family is all you can really depend on in this life.

To me, love is that kind of trust. Everything else fades away.

 

[snarlcakes]

After listening (1) to this song that popped into my head,

View embedded media

the glorious Spotify algorithm played this one next

View embedded media

One is about true love, the other about death. But this line in Avett Brothers hits me hard:

Will I join with the ocean blue?
Or run into a savior true?
And shake hands laughing
And walk through the night, straight to the light
Holding the love I've known in my life
And no hard feelings

Are death and love interwined in some way? (2) I don't know. But the emotions generated by songs about them move me, maybe not in the same way, but here I find them linked--maybe by the Beauty (capitalized for a reason) of the song. I'm moved every time I hear it (and the music video I find just as powerful).

To the point of the post title, though, both songs made me think about how to teach my children about love. I have failed as a parent in this area, and it's probably too late: daughter is nearly 17 and son is 14. Like most things, I suspect this must be inculcated at a young age, and that depresses me to no end because I'm sure my marriage is not a loving one and that is the model they have witnessed and lived in for their entire lives.

But the Avett Brothers line reminded me, love takes many forms. Romantic love with a partner isn't everything--even if at times in my life I thought it was the most important thing there is, which the first song always exemplified for me. At this stage, in fact, I can imagine no greater love than a parent for their child. (3)

So there are many forms of love. Many types that my children hopefully will experience, but that it might be helpful to have some tips on, advice for things to avoid or to look out for, to navigate around or to push right through. (4) Here, I've had a lot of experience and feel as if I could provide some rough guidance. I'm starting to imagine ways to talk to my kids about this. Part of me wishes I could just mainline these two songs into my kids' (and my wife's) psyche, just feed them the emotions I feel when I listen to them, have them experience the same, and just know--both that part of me that feels these things and what I think the songs' meanings are. Language, after all, has its limits.

Obviously, even thinking about how or whether to communicate these things feels awkward--for them and me. Weirder still, as I imagine it, I'm sure my wife might have a vastly different perspective. And I have no example to refer to: like most here, I'm a solid Midwesterner whose parents would never have even thought about talking about this (or like this) with me.

So some questions for discussion, for a sampling of perspectives from different people, and maybe for me and others to learn from:

For parents of adult children, did you do this with your children? How do you think about these issues? Do you think your kids have similar views on love--romantic or otherwise--as you do? Do you want them to? Does that make you feel a certain way?

For the parents with young children, same questions and an additional one: is this something you've thought about or do? If so, how?

For everyone, what do you think is the best way to go about this?


*****************

Footnotes (I put these in to improve the flow above and for some reason don't want to delete the content. Ignore if you wish):

(1) For a multimedia experience, feel free to read this while listening or listen first to set the mood.

(2) This is an interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree with it. https://emergencemagazine.org/essay/on-death-and-love/

(3) This might not be universal, I think. Some people might not experience this in the same way given a bad hand being dealt, like a severely troubled child from a young age. I was making small talk with a lawyer I was networking with last year, and brought up my kids and asked if he had any. He told me the story of adopting, along with his partner (gay couple) two children from Russia and their severe mental and developmental issues discovered later. He was clearly torn by the experience and I think about him to this day. For a pretty powerful single episode of TV about this, check out Episode 7 of the Romanoffs, the Amazon series Matthew Weiner did after Mad Men.

(4) There are downsides to love: https://www.psypost.org/loves-downside-research-identifies-major-disadvantages-of-romantic-partnerships/#:~:text=The most significant factors included,critical disadvantages compared to men.

lol...I've never thought about it. My initial answer would be through God. Since, you're an atheist, through Bitcoin.

 

[hoot1]

After listening (1) to this song that popped into my head,

View embedded media

the glorious Spotify algorithm played this one next

View embedded media

One is about true love, the other about death. But this line in Avett Brothers hits me hard:

Will I join with the ocean blue?
Or run into a savior true?
And shake hands laughing
And walk through the night, straight to the light
Holding the love I've known in my life
And no hard feelings

Are death and love interwined in some way? (2) I don't know. But the emotions generated by songs about them move me, maybe not in the same way, but here I find them linked--maybe by the Beauty (capitalized for a reason) of the song. I'm moved every time I hear it (and the music video I find just as powerful).

To the point of the post title, though, both songs made me think about how to teach my children about love. I have failed as a parent in this area, and it's probably too late: daughter is nearly 17 and son is 14. Like most things, I suspect this must be inculcated at a young age, and that depresses me to no end because I'm sure my marriage is not a loving one and that is the model they have witnessed and lived in for their entire lives.

But the Avett Brothers line reminded me, love takes many forms. Romantic love with a partner isn't everything--even if at times in my life I thought it was the most important thing there is, which the first song always exemplified for me. At this stage, in fact, I can imagine no greater love than a parent for their child. (3)

So there are many forms of love. Many types that my children hopefully will experience, but that it might be helpful to have some tips on, advice for things to avoid or to look out for, to navigate around or to push right through. (4) Here, I've had a lot of experience and feel as if I could provide some rough guidance. I'm starting to imagine ways to talk to my kids about this. Part of me wishes I could just mainline these two songs into my kids' (and my wife's) psyche, just feed them the emotions I feel when I listen to them, have them experience the same, and just know--both that part of me that feels these things and what I think the songs' meanings are. Language, after all, has its limits.

Obviously, even thinking about how or whether to communicate these things feels awkward--for them and me. Weirder still, as I imagine it, I'm sure my wife might have a vastly different perspective. And I have no example to refer to: like most here, I'm a solid Midwesterner whose parents would never have even thought about talking about this (or like this) with me.

So some questions for discussion, for a sampling of perspectives from different people, and maybe for me and others to learn from:

For parents of adult children, did you do this with your children? How do you think about these issues? Do you think your kids have similar views on love--romantic or otherwise--as you do? Do you want them to? Does that make you feel a certain way?

For the parents with young children, same questions and an additional one: is this something you've thought about or do? If so, how?

For everyone, what do you think is the best way to go about this?


*****************

Footnotes (I put these in to improve the flow above and for some reason don't want to delete the content. Ignore if you wish):

(1) For a multimedia experience, feel free to read this while listening or listen first to set the mood.

(2) This is an interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree with it. https://emergencemagazine.org/essay/on-death-and-love/

(3) This might not be universal, I think. Some people might not experience this in the same way given a bad hand being dealt, like a severely troubled child from a young age. I was making small talk with a lawyer I was networking with last year, and brought up my kids and asked if he had any. He told me the story of adopting, along with his partner (gay couple) two children from Russia and their severe mental and developmental issues discovered later. He was clearly torn by the experience and I think about him to this day. For a pretty powerful single episode of TV about this, check out Episode 7 of the Romanoffs, the Amazon series Matthew Weiner did after Mad Men.

(4) There are downsides to love: https://www.psypost.org/loves-downside-research-identifies-major-disadvantages-of-romantic-partnerships/#:~:text=The most significant factors included,critical disadvantages compared to men.

Three love recollections.

Father kissed me on the lips on a crowded railroad platform when sending me off to college. Surprised and embarrassed at the same time, but will never forget it.

Holding hands with my Mother right after my Father died. Felt sorry for her as she seemed to be telling me that I was now all she had.

Told my Daughter for the first time when she ten years old that I loved her. She emphatically responded. "I know that! ". It sounded as if she was saying you didn't have to say that. This made me happy.

 

[Univee2]

Three love recollections.

Father kissed me on the lips on a crowded railroad platform when sending me off to college. Surprised and embarrassed at the same time, but will never forget it.

Holding hands with my Mother right after my Father died. Felt sorry for her as she seemed to be telling me that I was now all she had.

Told my Daughter for the first time when she ten years old that I loved her. She emphatically responded. "I know that! ". It sounded as if she was saying you didn't have to say that. This made me happy.

I love my dog and can maybe tolerate two or three people.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

I love my dog and can maybe tolerate two or three people.

That’s how I feel about my boat

 

[mcmurtry66]

That’s how I feel about my boat

oh you've got a boat huh. dirty doc. must be nice. what did you name it? Nauti-Nurses? Sea-Men? The Filthy Oar?

 

[76mgdriver]

Calling Dr. Phil! Calling Dr. Phil!!

 

[dbmhoosier]

Don't ask Joe Biden.

 

[BradStevens]

oh you've got a boat huh. dirty doc. must be nice. what did you name it? Nauti-Nurses? Sea-Men? The Filthy Oar?

The Flying Wasp.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

"DFW-style?" A bit bold, don't you think?

 

[BradStevens]

"DFW-style?" A bit bold, don't you think?

Just meant with footnotes (because I had too many parentheticals) and a bit more vulnerability than people are used to seeing. But yeah, there was a bit of pretense in that title and style.

Was hoping to model sincerity and frankness. Doesn’t seem to have worked very well.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Just meant with footnotes (because I had too many parentheticals) and a bit more vulnerability than people are used to seeing. But yeah, there was a bit of pretense in that title and style.

Was hoping to model sincerity and frankness. Doesn’t seem to have worked very well.

Good, because I'm not submitting you for a Pulitzer.

 

[mattndallas]

Avett's fan here.

Playing that video on the backscreen during their tour now...saw them last month at Gainbridge. Cool scene.

Not sure what to think about Seth....more of a Scott Avett fan (which is why the below song ia bwtter)...but whatever.

That song's kinda replaced "I, and love, and you" as their heartstring puller...

Although I still prefer "Murder in the City". Living in Chicago, maybe you should too. 😄

If I get murdered in the city
Don't go revenging in my name
One person dead from such is plenty
No need to go get locked away

When I leave your arms
The things that I think of
No need to get over alarmed
I'm coming home

I wonder which brother is better
Which one our parents love the most
I sure did get in lots of trouble
They seemed to let the other go

A tear fell from my father's eyes
I wondered what my dad would say
He said, "I love you and I'm proud of you both
In so many different ways"

If I get murdered in the city
Go read the letter in my desk
Don't bother with all my belongings
But pay attention to the list

Make sure my sister knows I loved her
Make sure my mother knows the same
Always remember there was nothing worth sharing...
Like the love that let us share our name

Always remember there was nothing worth sharing...
Like the love that let us share our name

 

[mattndallas]

I’ve always told my kids your immediate family is all you can really depend on in this life.

To me, love is that kind of trust. Everything else fades away.

As Scott Avett says...

Always remember there was nothing worth sharing...
Like the love that let us share our name

😄

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

After listening (1) to this song that popped into my head,

View embedded media

the glorious Spotify algorithm played this one next

View embedded media

One is about true love, the other about death. But this line in Avett Brothers hits me hard:

Will I join with the ocean blue?
Or run into a savior true?
And shake hands laughing
And walk through the night, straight to the light
Holding the love I've known in my life
And no hard feelings

Are death and love interwined in some way? (2) I don't know. But the emotions generated by songs about them move me, maybe not in the same way, but here I find them linked--maybe by the Beauty (capitalized for a reason) of the song. I'm moved every time I hear it (and the music video I find just as powerful).

To the point of the post title, though, both songs made me think about how to teach my children about love. I have failed as a parent in this area, and it's probably too late: daughter is nearly 17 and son is 14. Like most things, I suspect this must be inculcated at a young age, and that depresses me to no end because I'm sure my marriage is not a loving one and that is the model they have witnessed and lived in for their entire lives.

But the Avett Brothers line reminded me, love takes many forms. Romantic love with a partner isn't everything--even if at times in my life I thought it was the most important thing there is, which the first song always exemplified for me. At this stage, in fact, I can imagine no greater love than a parent for their child. (3)

So there are many forms of love. Many types that my children hopefully will experience, but that it might be helpful to have some tips on, advice for things to avoid or to look out for, to navigate around or to push right through. (4) Here, I've had a lot of experience and feel as if I could provide some rough guidance. I'm starting to imagine ways to talk to my kids about this. Part of me wishes I could just mainline these two songs into my kids' (and my wife's) psyche, just feed them the emotions I feel when I listen to them, have them experience the same, and just know--both that part of me that feels these things and what I think the songs' meanings are. Language, after all, has its limits.

Obviously, even thinking about how or whether to communicate these things feels awkward--for them and me. Weirder still, as I imagine it, I'm sure my wife might have a vastly different perspective. And I have no example to refer to: like most here, I'm a solid Midwesterner whose parents would never have even thought about talking about this (or like this) with me.

So some questions for discussion, for a sampling of perspectives from different people, and maybe for me and others to learn from:

For parents of adult children, did you do this with your children? How do you think about these issues? Do you think your kids have similar views on love--romantic or otherwise--as you do? Do you want them to? Does that make you feel a certain way?

For the parents with young children, same questions and an additional one: is this something you've thought about or do? If so, how?

For everyone, what do you think is the best way to go about this?


*****************

Footnotes (I put these in to improve the flow above and for some reason don't want to delete the content. Ignore if you wish):

(1) For a multimedia experience, feel free to read this while listening or listen first to set the mood.

(2) This is an interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree with it. https://emergencemagazine.org/essay/on-death-and-love/

(3) This might not be universal, I think. Some people might not experience this in the same way given a bad hand being dealt, like a severely troubled child from a young age. I was making small talk with a lawyer I was networking with last year, and brought up my kids and asked if he had any. He told me the story of adopting, along with his partner (gay couple) two children from Russia and their severe mental and developmental issues discovered later. He was clearly torn by the experience and I think about him to this day. For a pretty powerful single episode of TV about this, check out Episode 7 of the Romanoffs, the Amazon series Matthew Weiner did after Mad Men.

(4) There are downsides to love: https://www.psypost.org/loves-downside-research-identifies-major-disadvantages-of-romantic-partnerships/#:~:text=The most significant factors included,critical disadvantages compared to men.

John 3:16

 

[ulrey]

oh you've got a boat huh. dirty doc. must be nice. what did you name it? Nauti-Nurses? Sea-Men? The Filthy Oar?

Boatox.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

oh you've got a boat huh. dirty doc. must be nice. what did you name it? Nauti-Nurses? Sea-Men? The Filthy Oar?

I named it bitch mother fckr

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

After listening (1) to this song that popped into my head,

View embedded media

the glorious Spotify algorithm played this one next

View embedded media

One is about true love, the other about death. But this line in Avett Brothers hits me hard:

Will I join with the ocean blue?
Or run into a savior true?
And shake hands laughing
And walk through the night, straight to the light
Holding the love I've known in my life
And no hard feelings

Are death and love interwined in some way? (2) I don't know. But the emotions generated by songs about them move me, maybe not in the same way, but here I find them linked--maybe by the Beauty (capitalized for a reason) of the song. I'm moved every time I hear it (and the music video I find just as powerful).

To the point of the post title, though, both songs made me think about how to teach my children about love. I have failed as a parent in this area, and it's probably too late: daughter is nearly 17 and son is 14. Like most things, I suspect this must be inculcated at a young age, and that depresses me to no end because I'm sure my marriage is not a loving one and that is the model they have witnessed and lived in for their entire lives.

But the Avett Brothers line reminded me, love takes many forms. Romantic love with a partner isn't everything--even if at times in my life I thought it was the most important thing there is, which the first song always exemplified for me. At this stage, in fact, I can imagine no greater love than a parent for their child. (3)

So there are many forms of love. Many types that my children hopefully will experience, but that it might be helpful to have some tips on, advice for things to avoid or to look out for, to navigate around or to push right through. (4) Here, I've had a lot of experience and feel as if I could provide some rough guidance. I'm starting to imagine ways to talk to my kids about this. Part of me wishes I could just mainline these two songs into my kids' (and my wife's) psyche, just feed them the emotions I feel when I listen to them, have them experience the same, and just know--both that part of me that feels these things and what I think the songs' meanings are. Language, after all, has its limits.

Obviously, even thinking about how or whether to communicate these things feels awkward--for them and me. Weirder still, as I imagine it, I'm sure my wife might have a vastly different perspective. And I have no example to refer to: like most here, I'm a solid Midwesterner whose parents would never have even thought about talking about this (or like this) with me.

So some questions for discussion, for a sampling of perspectives from different people, and maybe for me and others to learn from:

For parents of adult children, did you do this with your children? How do you think about these issues? Do you think your kids have similar views on love--romantic or otherwise--as you do? Do you want them to? Does that make you feel a certain way?

For the parents with young children, same questions and an additional one: is this something you've thought about or do? If so, how?

For everyone, what do you think is the best way to go about this?


*****************

Footnotes (I put these in to improve the flow above and for some reason don't want to delete the content. Ignore if you wish):

(1) For a multimedia experience, feel free to read this while listening or listen first to set the mood.

(2) This is an interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree with it. https://emergencemagazine.org/essay/on-death-and-love/

(3) This might not be universal, I think. Some people might not experience this in the same way given a bad hand being dealt, like a severely troubled child from a young age. I was making small talk with a lawyer I was networking with last year, and brought up my kids and asked if he had any. He told me the story of adopting, along with his partner (gay couple) two children from Russia and their severe mental and developmental issues discovered later. He was clearly torn by the experience and I think about him to this day. For a pretty powerful single episode of TV about this, check out Episode 7 of the Romanoffs, the Amazon series Matthew Weiner did after Mad Men.

(4) There are downsides to love: https://www.psypost.org/loves-downside-research-identifies-major-disadvantages-of-romantic-partnerships/#:~:text=The most significant factors included,critical disadvantages compared to men.

 

[BradStevens]

View embedded media

Alan Thicke's sweater is marvelous.

 

[twenty02]

The Flying Wasp.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

After listening (1) to this song that popped into my head,

View embedded media

the glorious Spotify algorithm played this one next

View embedded media

One is about true love, the other about death. But this line in Avett Brothers hits me hard:

Will I join with the ocean blue?
Or run into a savior true?
And shake hands laughing
And walk through the night, straight to the light
Holding the love I've known in my life
And no hard feelings

Are death and love interwined in some way? (2) I don't know. But the emotions generated by songs about them move me, maybe not in the same way, but here I find them linked--maybe by the Beauty (capitalized for a reason) of the song. I'm moved every time I hear it (and the music video I find just as powerful).

To the point of the post title, though, both songs made me think about how to teach my children about love. I have failed as a parent in this area, and it's probably too late: daughter is nearly 17 and son is 14. Like most things, I suspect this must be inculcated at a young age, and that depresses me to no end because I'm sure my marriage is not a loving one and that is the model they have witnessed and lived in for their entire lives.

But the Avett Brothers line reminded me, love takes many forms. Romantic love with a partner isn't everything--even if at times in my life I thought it was the most important thing there is, which the first song always exemplified for me. At this stage, in fact, I can imagine no greater love than a parent for their child. (3)

So there are many forms of love. Many types that my children hopefully will experience, but that it might be helpful to have some tips on, advice for things to avoid or to look out for, to navigate around or to push right through. (4) Here, I've had a lot of experience and feel as if I could provide some rough guidance. I'm starting to imagine ways to talk to my kids about this. Part of me wishes I could just mainline these two songs into my kids' (and my wife's) psyche, just feed them the emotions I feel when I listen to them, have them experience the same, and just know--both that part of me that feels these things and what I think the songs' meanings are. Language, after all, has its limits.

Obviously, even thinking about how or whether to communicate these things feels awkward--for them and me. Weirder still, as I imagine it, I'm sure my wife might have a vastly different perspective. And I have no example to refer to: like most here, I'm a solid Midwesterner whose parents would never have even thought about talking about this (or like this) with me.

So some questions for discussion, for a sampling of perspectives from different people, and maybe for me and others to learn from:

For parents of adult children, did you do this with your children? How do you think about these issues? Do you think your kids have similar views on love--romantic or otherwise--as you do? Do you want them to? Does that make you feel a certain way?

For the parents with young children, same questions and an additional one: is this something you've thought about or do? If so, how?

For everyone, what do you think is the best way to go about this?


*****************

Footnotes (I put these in to improve the flow above and for some reason don't want to delete the content. Ignore if you wish):

(1) For a multimedia experience, feel free to read this while listening or listen first to set the mood.

(2) This is an interesting article, but I'm not sure I agree with it. https://emergencemagazine.org/essay/on-death-and-love/

(3) This might not be universal, I think. Some people might not experience this in the same way given a bad hand being dealt, like a severely troubled child from a young age. I was making small talk with a lawyer I was networking with last year, and brought up my kids and asked if he had any. He told me the story of adopting, along with his partner (gay couple) two children from Russia and their severe mental and developmental issues discovered later. He was clearly torn by the experience and I think about him to this day. For a pretty powerful single episode of TV about this, check out Episode 7 of the Romanoffs, the Amazon series Matthew Weiner did after Mad Men.

(4) There are downsides to love: https://www.psypost.org/loves-downside-research-identifies-major-disadvantages-of-romantic-partnerships/#:~:text=The most significant factors included,critical disadvantages compared to men.

A few thoughts:

Don’t overthink it

Show the kids how much you love and respect their mother

Say “I love you”

The rest will take care of itself.

 

[All4You]

I love my dog and can maybe tolerate two or three people.

 

[mattndallas]

BTW...

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

I’ve always told my kids your immediate family is all you can really depend on in this life.

To me, love is that kind of trust. Everything else fades away.

Imagine how lucky you are to have family that you feel that way about or that are that way.

 

[larsIU]

Nobody wants to be eating alone at Applebee's at 4:30 on a Thursday when they're 75.

So, my advice. Figure it out soon and find the next (and hopefully last) one soon after.

God that sucks to type out.

 

[BradStevens]

Nobody wants to be eating alone at Applebee's at 4:30 on a Thursday when they're 75.

So, my advice. Figure it out soon and find the next (and hopefully last) one soon after.

God that sucks the type out.

Maybe I have an abnormal peer group, but the state of my marriage isn't that different from those I know. I'm just open and honest about it, which is easy to do on an anonymous message board. But I'm not looking for advice or sympathy there.

I was looking for discussions about how to pass on knowledge from parent to child about romantic love, what to look out for, what to focus on with boyfriends and girlfriends, attitudes towards lifetime partnership, etc. It seems people (men?) are uncomfortable with the topic, or maybe recognize the same failures on their own part to not really talk about these things with their kids. That's the norm in our culture, I'd bet. Maybe we don't think we have anything meaningful to impart; maybe we're just too embarrassed to talk about it.

Weird, though, that no one has attempted an actual response other than CoHoosier. I'd guess that if I had asked a question like "How are you or did you teach your kids about money, investing, career, etc." we'd get plenty of posts, and some of them very detailed, or at least a lot of responses about what should be told. But when it comes to something most of us consider vastly more important, we are silent (me, too, obviously). I'm curious about that. Wonder if women have different ideas on this. And if we are outsourcing these important discussions about love to the mothers, are our kids getting a full picture?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Imagine how lucky you are to have family that you feel that way about or that are that way.

Oh I know how lucky I am to have been taught that growing up. I have 5 brothers and 1 sister and we’ve all always been extremely close. We all get together at LEAST once a month.

My brothers and I get together with dad every Saturday night in the winter for Bible study because he suggested it and we all enjoy it. He was in the hospital for a while with Covid and we started doing that after he got out.

If I can impart that type of closeness into my kids, I’ll have been a successful parent.

 

[BradStevens]

Oh I know how lucky I am to have been taught that growing up. I have 5 brothers and 1 sister and we’ve all always been extremely close. We all get together at LEAST once a month.

My brothers and I get together with dad every Saturday night in the winter for Bible study because he suggested it and we all enjoy it. He was in the hospital for a while with Covid and we started doing that after he got out.

If I can impart that type of closeness into my kids, I’ll have been a successful parent.

That’s awesome Hoopsdoc.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Maybe I have an abnormal peer group, but the state of my marriage isn't that different from those I know. I'm just open and honest about it, which is easy to do on an anonymous message board. But I'm not looking for advice or sympathy there.

I was looking for discussions about how to pass on knowledge from parent to child about romantic love, what to look out for, what to focus on with boyfriends and girlfriends, attitudes towards lifetime partnership, etc. It seems people (men?) are uncomfortable with the topic, or maybe recognize the same failures on their own part to not really talk about these things with their kids. That's the norm in our culture, I'd bet. Maybe we don't think we have anything meaningful to impart; maybe we're just too embarrassed to talk about it.

Weird, though, that no one has attempted an actual response other than CoHoosier. I'd guess that if I had asked a question like "How are you or did you teach your kids about money, investing, career, etc." we'd get plenty of posts, and some of them very detailed, or at least a lot of responses about what should be told. But when it comes to something most of us consider vastly more important, we are silent (me, too, obviously). I'm curious about that. Wonder if women have different ideas on this. And if we are outsourcing these important discussions about love to the mothers, are our kids getting a full picture?

Just speaking for me, but I wanted a woman that I enjoyed being around and had a solid connection, laughed at stupid shit like I did and just someone that was a good person who I could see myself with.

It's funny how that works though. I would say don't go out looking for love. Love will find you, sometimes when you don't expect it. I'm not saying to not go out and date, have fun. I would say go out with a date and just have fun. You'll know if there's a connection or not.

A relationship is like a building. You have your first couple dates which are your first building blocks. Decide to go from dating to boyfriend/girlfriend, you have a foundation now. When you get to this point, and I've learned this the hard way, don't stop dating them. You'll become complacent at some point... change up the routine. My wife and I try from once a month. It could be the first week of the month or the last, but we try to always continue to date one another.

That's just some thoughts off the top of my head. Have no idea if any of it makes sense, but that's what came out.

 

[larsIU]

Maybe I have an abnormal peer group, but the state of my marriage isn't that different from those I know. I'm just open and honest about it, which is easy to do on an anonymous message board. But I'm not looking for advice or sympathy there.

I was looking for discussions about how to pass on knowledge from parent to child about romantic love, what to look out for, what to focus on with boyfriends and girlfriends, attitudes towards lifetime partnership, etc. It seems people (men?) are uncomfortable with the topic, or maybe recognize the same failures on their own part to not really talk about these things with their kids. That's the norm in our culture, I'd bet. Maybe we don't think we have anything meaningful to impart; maybe we're just too embarrassed to talk about it.

Weird, though, that no one has attempted an actual response other than CoHoosier. I'd guess that if I had asked a question like "How are you or did you teach your kids about money, investing, career, etc." we'd get plenty of posts, and some of them very detailed, or at least a lot of responses about what should be told. But when it comes to something most of us consider vastly more important, we are silent (me, too, obviously). I'm curious about that. Wonder if women have different ideas on this. And if we are outsourcing these important discussions about love to the mothers, are our kids getting a full picture?

This sounds awful, but I told my daughter she should enjoy s*x and romance and that her partner should be willing to provide this without prompting.

We advised her that love should feel natural and that she should "know" her partner feels similary. She shouldn't have to hunt it down from them. And taht communication is the true essence of romance and love in general.

I don't know that my wife and I are always teh best example though. We both have tempers and the ability to lacerate somebody verbally. We've tried to keep that from our daughter but she's picked up on shit and even moreso now that she's getting older. Hoewver, she's also realized her mom is batshit insane occasionally** and lets me know she knows that behavior is single use only.

So, I don't know man. I don't want to outsource that to her mother entirely but I feel like mothers prepare their kids for this better than fathers. I feel like fathers are more "lead by example" types. I've tried to show my daughter (who is not mine biologically as her bio dad is a deadbeat) what it means to be a "good man". I have failed often.

**As an aside, those of you who’ve ridden the train through menopause - did you get a one bedroom or two bedroom apartment in which to ride it out?

 

[CO. Hoosier]

**As an aside, those of you have ridden the train through menopause - did you get a one bedroom or two bedroom apartment in which to ride it out?

Ha. I drove a 911 in those years. Menopause was not an issue.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Just speaking for me, but I wanted a woman that I enjoyed being around and had a solid connection, laughed at stupid shit like I did and just someone that was a good person who I could see myself with.

It's funny how that works though. I would say don't go out looking for love. Love will find you, sometimes when you don't expect it. I'm not saying to not go out and date, have fun. I would say go out with a date and just have fun. You'll know if there's a connection or not.

A relationship is like a building. You have your first couple dates which are your first building blocks. Decide to go from dating to boyfriend/girlfriend, you have a foundation now. When you get to this point, and I've learned this the hard way, don't stop dating them. You'll become complacent at some point... change up the routine. My wife and I try from once a month. It could be the first week of the month or the last, but we try to always continue to date one another.

That's just some thoughts off the top of my head. Have no idea if any of it makes sense, but that's what came out.

I try to go the extra mile sometimes. My wife told me 3 weeks ago she’s really been craving a good steak but that she knew we couldn’t afford what she wanted.

I’ve been trying to save up money since then and tonight I asked her if she wanted to go out Saturday night to the restaurant of her choice.

She was delighted and she’s been trying to decide where she wants to go ever since.

Making her happy like that is what makes me happy.

And she’ll return the favor. She always does.

I think that type of effort and intuition about your partner is necessary if you want a really solid, lasting relationship.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I try to go the extra mile sometimes. My wife told me 3 weeks ago she’s really been craving a good steak but that she knew we couldn’t afford what she wanted.

I’ve been trying to save up money since then and tonight I asked her if she wanted to go out Saturday night to the restaurant of her choice.

She was delighted and she’s been trying to decide where she wants to go ever since.

Making her happy like that is what makes me happy.

And she’ll return the favor. She always does.

I think that type of effort and intuition about your partner is really necessary if you want a really solid, lasting relationship.

Shorter Doc: "I'm getting a beej this weekend."

 

[T.M.P.]

Shorter Doc: "I'm getting a beej this weekend."

Cool story, Spielberg.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I try to go the extra mile sometimes. My wife told me 3 weeks ago she’s really been craving a good steak but that she knew we couldn’t afford what she wanted.

I’ve been trying to save up money since then and tonight I asked her if she wanted to go out Saturday night to the restaurant of her choice.

She was delighted and she’s been trying to decide where she wants to go ever since.

Making her happy like that is what makes me happy.

And she’ll return the favor. She always does.

I think that type of effort and intuition about your partner is necessary if you want a really solid, lasting relationship.

Probably telling. My “look. This thing ain’t gonna suck itself” probably wasn’t the romance she was looking for

 

[BradStevens]

This sounds awful, but I told my daughter she should enjoy s*x and romance and that her partner should be willing to provide this without prompting.

We advised her that love should feel natural and that she should "know" her partner feels similary. She shouldn't have to hunt it down from them. And taht communication is the true essence of romance and love in general.

I don't know that my wife and I are always teh best example though. We both have tempers and the ability to lacerate somebody verbally. We've tried to keep that from our daughter but she's picked up on shit and even moreso now that she's getting older. Hoewver, she's also realized her mom is batshit insane occasionally** and lets me know she knows that behavior is single use only.

So, I don't know man. I don't want to outsource that to her mother entirely but I feel like mothers prepare their kids for this better than fathers. I feel like fathers are more "lead by example" types. I've tried to show my daughter (who is not mine biologically as her bio dad is a deadbeat) what it means to be a "good man". I have failed often.

**As an aside, those of you who’ve ridden the train through menopause - did you get a one bedroom or two bedroom apartment in which to ride it out?

So lars, really basic question: how did you broach that subject with your daughter? Was it planned? Did you know what you were going to say going into it? How did she react--embarrassed, disengaged, interested?

I think it's awesome that you talked that way with her and were open and honest. Not awful at all.

Re menopause, buy her one of these:

https://coldest.com/products/coldest-ice-vest?currency=USD&variant=44797791895784&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=ebfaf447682d