Hopefully this will end the Alford talk...
- Thread starter RBB89
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First, I want to say that SA handled the incident poorly to say the least but I do have a question.
Is there evidence that SA sent the AIA person to talk to the victim? All the report said was that the person was a friend to SA and the program. I also thought I read somewhere that the AIA person was a minister and denied being sent by SA.
If the AIA rep wasn't dispatched by SA, that alone doesn't absolve SA from how poorly he handled the situation, I would think it lessens his culpability.
Is there evidence that SA sent the AIA person to talk to the victim? All the report said was that the person was a friend to SA and the program. I also thought I read somewhere that the AIA person was a minister and denied being sent by SA.
If the AIA rep wasn't dispatched by SA, that alone doesn't absolve SA from how poorly he handled the situation, I would think it lessens his culpability.
It might lessen his culpability on the surface, but raises more questions about how much he knew in regards to AIA, the priest, the victim, and how it related to the direct future of his men's bball team at the time.
You really want to deal with hearing about this endlessly? All over a mediocre coach? And more importantly, basically giving the finger to rape victims?
He handled one incident poorly (maybe very poorly, depending on whether you think he steered the AIA guy to talk to the victim), and has apologized for it. I feel badly for the victim, but I also have no reason to think this is an issue for Alford other than a one-time thing where he was stupid enough to back a guy he trusted. I think that's good enough for me given what seems like a pretty spotless record of player behavior in 20+ years, but I hear you if it's not good enough for you or anyone who has been the victim in similar situations. If you're inclined to believe Alford's apology was sincere, you'd think he will have more respect/appreciation for this issue than most. Just my views - obviously no changing opinions on this one.
Sarcasm Ahead:
IU fans need to figure out how to spin this like the UK fans did with Calipari. He was a cheater, then he was hired by UK and all of a sudden it was everyone else's fault he cheated. Well, we just need to figure out how to portray SA as the victim here.
Excellent article, until I read the reference to Boers and Berstein, those hacks from The Score who have the moral compass made from rusty barbed wired and who can't look beyond the city limits of Chicago and are too blind and racist to see the disgrace that their beloved city has become because of the murder rate in their beloved, we do everything right, city. Their "sports talk" was nothing but political talk and they mocked, ranted, and spewed hate anything and anyone not related to their failed political views.
If for any other reason, IU should hire SA just to stick it to The Score and all those hacks from Chicago and UI who hate everything Iowa.
My larger concern and hope is that IUB figures out a way to protect it's own female students. Our daughters and sisters haven't been overly safe on that campus for the last few years.
"Giving the finger to rape victims?" Utter BS. Is it something psychological with you guys? Do you have to turn Alford into a monster so you can pat yourself on the back and believe that you convinced Glass not to hire him to fulfill some white knight fantasy?
This is stupid. Alford was supporting Pierce and thought he was innocent at the time in which he might or might not have been. But I am sure that Alford does not support and will not tolerate sexual offenses.
Agreed. The party culture and public safety issues for IU are very well known among high school college placement counselors. Not a good reputation at all.
How about we not hire anyone with a few sweet 16 yrs in 20 plus years of coaching?
I wouldn't hire him on record alone.
I wouldn't hire him on record alone.
Yeah, he was so contrite he waited 11 years to apologize. And only after the LA press raised hell.
It was a gigantic lack of good judgement on something that a fifth grader would know what's right and what's wrong.
The problem isn't something like will it happen again, the problem is that his reaction, to this day, was completely out of touch, arrogant and narcissistic.
Even if he 100% felt the girl was lying and making his program look bad...his reaction was stupid.
If it was he didn't want to lose a key player to a good season...his reaction was stupid.
Then afterwards it seems as if he has truly learned from Coach Knight to NEVER admit fault or apologize (I don't know why, narcissists have a real problem admitting mistakes...see Crean, Knight, Trump) which again...is so stupid of him when there is such an easy solution.
At the time he simply should have done what Iowa asked...kick him off the team, let this thing figure itself out and shut the f#$k up.
See Pitino with how he handled Reggie Lynch last year. It's not hard.
Afterwards it's still easy. Just say you really fu$#ed up and truly believed a kid when he swore to me that he didn't do anything wrong. He completely fooled me and I am so genuinely sorry for my behavior along with being completely embarrassed of myself for how I unknowingly made the situation worse. I have a daughter (which he does) and I would never put her in an environment where she felt threatened in any way and it kills me to think that, as a father, I didn't protect that girl at the time. Since then I have started a campus rape awareness that all my players must attend.....Etc.
Something like that is a real, sincere reaction.
Not this 'stop bothering me about it' inference.
This will be a stink that will follow him everywhere, including here.
Hope Glass is ready for it.
The problem isn't something like will it happen again, the problem is that his reaction, to this day, was completely out of touch, arrogant and narcissistic.
Even if he 100% felt the girl was lying and making his program look bad...his reaction was stupid.
If it was he didn't want to lose a key player to a good season...his reaction was stupid.
Then afterwards it seems as if he has truly learned from Coach Knight to NEVER admit fault or apologize (I don't know why, narcissists have a real problem admitting mistakes...see Crean, Knight, Trump) which again...is so stupid of him when there is such an easy solution.
At the time he simply should have done what Iowa asked...kick him off the team, let this thing figure itself out and shut the f#$k up.
See Pitino with how he handled Reggie Lynch last year. It's not hard.
Afterwards it's still easy. Just say you really fu$#ed up and truly believed a kid when he swore to me that he didn't do anything wrong. He completely fooled me and I am so genuinely sorry for my behavior along with being completely embarrassed of myself for how I unknowingly made the situation worse. I have a daughter (which he does) and I would never put her in an environment where she felt threatened in any way and it kills me to think that, as a father, I didn't protect that girl at the time. Since then I have started a campus rape awareness that all my players must attend.....Etc.
Something like that is a real, sincere reaction.
Not this 'stop bothering me about it' inference.
This will be a stink that will follow him everywhere, including here.
Hope Glass is ready for it.
Speaking of elapsed time, I've always wondered why it was that Alford was allowed to stay on at Iowa, waiting for a soft landing, until 2007.
Think about it. You've got an employee that is almost universally hated, is terrible at his job, and guilty of bullying/intimidating a student rape victim while interfering with a criminal investigation. If all of this true, how in the world does he stay employed? Dakich even brought up on the show today that Iowa actually gave him an extension after all of that. I looked it up and it turns out they extended him twice post-Pierce.
There are things that just don't add up with this story as it's typically presented. It could still all be true I suppose, but it seems unlikely.
Well, Pater, I have no idea what the Iowa administration was thinking.
As far as Alford goes, after the second Pierce incident he could have said: Whoa I may have been wrong about backing Pierre in that prior incident.
But no, he waited 6-7 more years and only after a firestorm in the press.
Yada, Yada, Yada. He was not the criminal here. It was Pierce. I hope he is not the next coach but it isn't because of that article or his mistake of getting involved in the incident. If people want to endlessly whine in posts it will be taking up more their time than mine because they must take the time to post what I will no longer be reading after this thread. Actually, with all the whining going on, i'm starting to support Alford and all the great people at UNM and UCLA who gave the guy a chance to move on past mistakes he made. How's that for a UK spin.
Let's be honest here....
The Pierre Pierce debacle -- and it was a debacle...for Steve Alford, Bob Bowlsby, and the University of Iowa in general -- probably isn't the actual reason for many of those who don't want Alford coaching here. To be sure, it serves as convenient ammo in the argument against Alford. But I strongly suspect that, if Alford's coaching career heretofore had been more successful than it has been, then plenty of his critics would be willing to overlook his handling of Pierce's sexual assault(s). And I also strongly suspect that the reason the PTBs at Iowa pushed him to defend Pierce was that (a) they still had a lot of faith at that time that he was going to be successful, and (b) Pierre Pierce was a key reason they did.
If Alford had handled that situation the way he should have, would anybody here touting it as a primary not to hire him think any differently about wanting him on our sidelines? I doubt it. I know that I, for one, wouldn't.
The Pierre Pierce debacle -- and it was a debacle...for Steve Alford, Bob Bowlsby, and the University of Iowa in general -- probably isn't the actual reason for many of those who don't want Alford coaching here. To be sure, it serves as convenient ammo in the argument against Alford. But I strongly suspect that, if Alford's coaching career heretofore had been more successful than it has been, then plenty of his critics would be willing to overlook his handling of Pierce's sexual assault(s). And I also strongly suspect that the reason the PTBs at Iowa pushed him to defend Pierce was that (a) they still had a lot of faith at that time that he was going to be successful, and (b) Pierre Pierce was a key reason they did.
If Alford had handled that situation the way he should have, would anybody here touting it as a primary not to hire him think any differently about wanting him on our sidelines? I doubt it. I know that I, for one, wouldn't.
The one thing that no one can argue is that Steve publically said...“I totally believe he’s innocent. I believed it from Day 1 and I still believe it.”
What does that really mean? It means the exact same as...
“I totally believe that girl is a liar. I believed it from Day 1 and I still believe it.”
Turns out she wasn't. Oops.
As the steward of a program, and we all know how batshit crazy fans are, imagine being the girl for a moment (or her father).
An athlete anally rapes you which is one of the most traumatic things a person can go through, you're scared to press charges because you know the fans are going to come down on you, you do and the coach calls you a liar.
Then the coach thinks it's a good idea to sit in a prayer session with the sexual predator.
Good for her telling Alford to go get anally raped and for pressing public charges.
And no Steve, she wasn't a liar. She really wasn't.
Thanks for forcefully apologizing a decade later.
What does that really mean? It means the exact same as...
“I totally believe that girl is a liar. I believed it from Day 1 and I still believe it.”
Turns out she wasn't. Oops.
As the steward of a program, and we all know how batshit crazy fans are, imagine being the girl for a moment (or her father).
An athlete anally rapes you which is one of the most traumatic things a person can go through, you're scared to press charges because you know the fans are going to come down on you, you do and the coach calls you a liar.
Then the coach thinks it's a good idea to sit in a prayer session with the sexual predator.
Good for her telling Alford to go get anally raped and for pressing public charges.
And no Steve, she wasn't a liar. She really wasn't.
Thanks for forcefully apologizing a decade later.
Why do we demand apologies from celebrities? Are we wronged? Do we deserve it?
My theory, we envy them and out of jealousy we like to see celebrities embarrassed. It makes us feel somehow more equal to them...than an hour after the apology, we are back on the fan boards envying them again
He trusted the wrong person, he F'ed up, get over it. you have absolutely no skin in the game so spare us all your righteous indignation
oh man, you are entitled to your opinion but sometimes that one issue is a deal breaker.
yucky as f*ck
OR 90% of folks here have had friends and/ or family affected by rape/ sexual assault if they weren't victims themselves.
wouldn't matter if he had 8 rings. that's how jacked up it was. can and did he learn from this? yes and sure. in my mind, does it immediately exclude him from consideration for our job? hellz yes
i see your point but this is not a celebrity thing. i think some of you are really trying to rationalize this as a little goof up. it was totally jacked up. the least famous person could do this, apologize, and i still wouldn't want them in a position of trust anywhere near me. forgiveness and trust are two diff things.
this 10000 times
the Stevie crew needs to check their cognitive bias at the door. will fan bases overlook phone calls and player payments if it means they win stuff? sure.
this ain't that. sheeeeesh.
Well, notice I didn't say "all." I'm sure there are some people who truly, genuinely don't need to go anywhere beyond the Pierce matter to determine that Alford is not the right guy for our basketball program. If you're one of those people....more power to you. I'm not questioning any particular person's integrity here.
I'm just saying that I think, in many cases, the opposition actually comes down to his relatively mediocre track record in terms of Ws and Ls, championships, etc. You can certainly -- and fairly -- say that anybody who would overlook his handling of the Pierce situation because of his outstanding coaching record (if he had one, which he doesn't) has a corrupted value system. But I'm just trying to throw a cold glass of reality on the matter.
I do not see it as giving the finger to a rape victim if SA is given the opportunity to address the issues and concerns.
As I have said repeatedly, if he can not give an adequate and sincere explanation of the issue to those doing the selection, then the interview can be terminated and his name taken off the list for consideration.
He should at least have the opportunity to address the charges against him.
It would be a lot easier to "get over it" if he actually had admitted that he f'ed up. And not by reading a statement that was likely written by a lawyer or PR person, and read over a decade later for the purpose of covering his a$$ to save his job/career.
Alford apologized he was hired by UCLA.
If this was still an issue he would not have been hired by UCLA.
This is a non-issue.
Reminds me of politically motivated attacks against politicians and judges.
Some do not want Alford hired, for reasons other than his qualifications and his future ability as the potential head coach at IU, which in honesty is the perfect position for Alford to leverage his past history as a great player in both HS and College in the Hoosier state and connect with coaches and players to recruit homegrown Indiana HS talent to IU which has been one of the biggest complaints for 15 years during Davis, Sampson, and Crean eras.
Nobody is perfect, we are a nation who forgives and gives someone another chance. Alford would be a better coach at IU than at any other university in the country for the in-state notoriety and connections. IU has tried three times to bring in a politically correct hire. Perhaps IU should give common sense a try this time. Alford may not be my #1 choice but he is certainly on the list and certainly would be an improvement over Crean. UCLA committed 9 Turnovers in 2 NCAA Tournament games. IU commits more than that in a half under Crean. Lets move on to bigger and better things and unite behind whoever is hired by IU to lead the Basketball program to Banner #6.
If this was still an issue he would not have been hired by UCLA.
This is a non-issue.
Reminds me of politically motivated attacks against politicians and judges.
Some do not want Alford hired, for reasons other than his qualifications and his future ability as the potential head coach at IU, which in honesty is the perfect position for Alford to leverage his past history as a great player in both HS and College in the Hoosier state and connect with coaches and players to recruit homegrown Indiana HS talent to IU which has been one of the biggest complaints for 15 years during Davis, Sampson, and Crean eras.
Nobody is perfect, we are a nation who forgives and gives someone another chance. Alford would be a better coach at IU than at any other university in the country for the in-state notoriety and connections. IU has tried three times to bring in a politically correct hire. Perhaps IU should give common sense a try this time. Alford may not be my #1 choice but he is certainly on the list and certainly would be an improvement over Crean. UCLA committed 9 Turnovers in 2 NCAA Tournament games. IU commits more than that in a half under Crean. Lets move on to bigger and better things and unite behind whoever is hired by IU to lead the Basketball program to Banner #6.
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We've also all been guilty of trusting the wrong person. We were lucky enough to do it within our own anonymity.
I'm not rationalizing anything, I'm looking at a case where a guy screwed up...screwed up bad, but he wasn't the rapist...he showed poor judgement but not criminal behavior...he's had 15yrs since, without incident. How long should SA be punished? Even criminals can be given fresh starts, and SA isn't a criminal
I'm not saying anything was ok, but Jesus it's been 15yrs, he's apologized said he handled it wrong, promised he wouldn't do it again...I'm sorry but I think a lot of this is simply our societies need to build up and tear down celebrities. It's our own little version of interactive reality TV
There is an obscure movie line that I think of when discussing this type of thing..."we worship success, but what we root for is failure". Barbarians at the Gate
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