Holtman and Collins

[mushroomgod_1]

Watching these two guys over the past two years highlights, for me, just how difficult it is to coach college basketball these days, with so many guys having their minds on their draft status or thinking about the transfer portal.

In '21-22 Collins has Buie, Audige, Ryan Young, Pete Nance, and Ty Berry on his roster and goes 7-13 in the BT. Nance and Young leave for UNC/Duke, you think they're screwed, and they go 12-8 in the BT.

So next year, he's looking at what Buie and Audige do. Audige leaves, but amazingly Buie stays, and they are again a competitive team. If Buie leaves Collins might lose his job. Now he's lauded.

Holtman wins 69% of all games, 59% of BT games at OSU over his first 5 years. Not quite Matta (73%/66%), but serviceable. Last year he has 3 portal transfers, none of which pan out. So they tank. This year he has Thornton, Battle, Gayle, Key, Okpara, Mahaffey, Bonner, and Middleton. Not a dominant roster, but enough talent to get you 4th or 5th in the BT. No bad apples, as far as I can see. And, for some reason, they tank again.

For most schools there is so much unpredictable change from year to year that its all a big crapshoot.

 

[rrdd2021]

Watching these two guys over the past two years highlights, for me, just how difficult it is to coach college basketball these days, with so many guys having their minds on their draft status or thinking about the transfer portal.

In '21-22 Collins has Buie, Audige, Ryan Young, Pete Nance, and Ty Berry on his roster and goes 7-13 in the BT. Nance and Young leave for UNC/Duke, you think they're screwed, and they go 12-8 in the BT.

So next year, he's looking at what Buie and Audige do. Audige leaves, but amazingly Buie stays, and they are again a competitive team. If Buie leaves Collins might lose his job. Now he's lauded.

Holtman wins 69% of all games, 59% of BT games at OSU over his first 5 years. Not quite Matta (73%/66%), but serviceable. Last year he has 3 portal transfers, none of which pan out. So they tank. This year he has Thornton, Battle, Gayle, Key, Okpara, Mahaffey, Bonner, and Middleton. Not a dominant roster, but enough talent to get you 4th or 5th in the BT. No bad apples, as far as I can see. And, for some reason, they tank again.

For most schools there is so much unpredictable change from year to year that its all a big crapshoot.

Holtmann is history at OSU especially with their new AD coming in, but in all fairness, OSU basketball is just a way for their fans to pass time until football season starts

 

[ams66]

Watching these two guys over the past two years highlights, for me, just how difficult it is to coach college basketball these days, with so many guys having their minds on their draft status or thinking about the transfer portal.

In '21-22 Collins has Buie, Audige, Ryan Young, Pete Nance, and Ty Berry on his roster and goes 7-13 in the BT. Nance and Young leave for UNC/Duke, you think they're screwed, and they go 12-8 in the BT.

So next year, he's looking at what Buie and Audige do. Audige leaves, but amazingly Buie stays, and they are again a competitive team. If Buie leaves Collins might lose his job. Now he's lauded.

Holtman wins 69% of all games, 59% of BT games at OSU over his first 5 years. Not quite Matta (73%/66%), but serviceable. Last year he has 3 portal transfers, none of which pan out. So they tank. This year he has Thornton, Battle, Gayle, Key, Okpara, Mahaffey, Bonner, and Middleton. Not a dominant roster, but enough talent to get you 4th or 5th in the BT. No bad apples, as far as I can see. And, for some reason, they tank again.

For most schools there is so much unpredictable change from year to year that its all a big crapshoot.

This will be why Woodson gets more time. Plenty of other examples of college coaches "failing" with "talented" rosters.

 

[iubhounds]

Two interesting coaching examples ... look and see what San Diego St, Gonzaga, Texas and Kansas State are doing this year compared to last year. I wonder if Texas wonders if they hired the wrong coach based off one good season?

 

[frikkenfrakken]

This is why it's hard to pry coaches away from successful programs, and it takes huge contracts with huge guarantees like Miller's deal to make it happen. No one has any idea whether it will work out.

Dan Monson was great at Gonzaga before Few, but barely went .500 overall at Minnesota. Now he coaches at Long Beach State, and is under .500 overall and at about .600 in conference. Good, but not special.

Wasn't Holtmann a loser at Siena or some place like that before success at Butler? No one knows what will happen with these guys.

 

[steelyvan]

This is why it's hard to pry coaches away from successful programs, and it takes huge contracts with huge guarantees like Miller's deal to make it happen. No one has any idea whether it will work out.

Dan Monson was great at Gonzaga before Few, but barely went .500 overall at Minnesota. Now he coaches at Long Beach State, and is under .500 overall and at about .600 in conference. Good, but not special.

Wasn't Holtmann a loser at Siena or some place like that before success at Butler? No one knows what will happen with these guys.

Holtman was at Gardner Webb.

 

[IUFANBB]

Watching these two guys over the past two years highlights, for me, just how difficult it is to coach college basketball these days, with so many guys having their minds on their draft status or thinking about the transfer portal.

In '21-22 Collins has Buie, Audige, Ryan Young, Pete Nance, and Ty Berry on his roster and goes 7-13 in the BT. Nance and Young leave for UNC/Duke, you think they're screwed, and they go 12-8 in the BT.

So next year, he's looking at what Buie and Audige do. Audige leaves, but amazingly Buie stays, and they are again a competitive team. If Buie leaves Collins might lose his job. Now he's lauded.

Holtman wins 69% of all games, 59% of BT games at OSU over his first 5 years. Not quite Matta (73%/66%), but serviceable. Last year he has 3 portal transfers, none of which pan out. So they tank. This year he has Thornton, Battle, Gayle, Key, Okpara, Mahaffey, Bonner, and Middleton. Not a dominant roster, but enough talent to get you 4th or 5th in the BT. No bad apples, as far as I can see. And, for some reason, they tank again.

For most schools there is so much unpredictable change from year to year that its all a big crapshoot.

Teams who can hold their core for a few years typically do better. Having RT & TJD really helped last year. Their experience was critical. We are really young in the front court. If KW, MR, and MM all return, we will be dangerous next year.

 

[TR32]

I don't see a similarity between Holtman and Collins. Holtman is an above average and consistent recruiter who has put together teams with NBA level talent on a regular basis. He inherited the Big Ten POY when he arrived and added Jae'shon Tate and the Wesson bros. Despite being kind of pedestrian as a game coach, his teams have been full of talent and physical play.

Collins, on the other hand, has built an identity at NW, and has completely reconstructed that program into a much more competitive and recruiting-attractive team that is capable of making the tourney. He has built a culture there.

Holtman is more like Jim O'Brien 2.0.

 

[jiouhyu]

I don't see a similarity between Holtman and Collins. Holtman is an above average and consistent recruiter who has put together teams with NBA level talent on a regular basis. He inherited the Big Ten POY when he arrived and added Jae'shon Tate and the Wesson bros. Despite being kind of pedestrian as a game coach, his teams have been full of talent and physical play.

Collins, on the other hand, has built an identity at NW, and has completely reconstructed that program into a much more competitive and recruiting-attractive team that is capable of making the tourney. He has built a culture there.

Holtman is more like Jim O'Brien 2.0.

my top picks for our next coach: Beard, Collins 1A. Wonder if he would consider leaving NW for IU? Should be easier to recruit talent at IU as academics, NIL favor IU. By academics i mean lower standards for admission than NW.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Holtmann is history at OSU especially with their new AD coming in, but in all fairness, OSU basketball is just a way for their fans to pass time until football season starts

Yes. That game between two crappy teams the other night had about 200 fans in attendance it appeared. SSAH would have had 15K plus

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

my top picks for our next coach: Beard, Collins 1A. Wonder if he would consider leaving NW for IU? Should be easier to recruit talent at IU as academics, NIL favor IU. By academics i mean lower standards for admission than NW.

Whatever. IU is the Mississippi St of the north with academics 😂

 

[Tammany Hall]

my top picks for our next coach: Beard, Collins 1A. Wonder if he would consider leaving NW for IU? Should be easier to recruit talent at IU as academics, NIL favor IU. By academics i mean lower standards for admission than NW.

IU should be appealing. Dolson has to do some selling but it shouldn’t be hard.

We’ve got the most NIL in the B1G, probably around #5-7 in country. Won’t get outbid often.
We’ve got the biggest AD budget for bball, so hire whatever staff you want.
Best fans, you get crowd advantages in NYC, ATL, Hawaii, wherever. Best home court.
Very good facilities.
History (not worth much I know).
More $ in comp.

A probably the big one for the coach’s ego: if you’re good you are top dog in Bloomington and the state. You play in bigger games with a national audience. If you make a tourney run the whole state will be watching. It’s a big deal here.

Downside? Something about the IU admin: incompetence, internal politics, whatever, has made it hard to succeed at IU. I’ve never been able to totally explain it.

 

[BusdriverE]

IU should be appealing. Dolson has to do some selling but it shouldn’t be hard.

We’ve got the most NIL in the B1G, probably around #5-7 in country. Won’t get outbid often.
We’ve got the biggest AD budget for bball, so hire whatever staff you want.
Best fans, you get crowd advantages in NYC, ATL, Hawaii, wherever. Best home court.
Very good facilities.
History (not worth much I know).
More $ in comp.

A probably the big one for the coach’s ego: if you’re good you are top dog in Bloomington and the state. You play in bigger games with a national audience. If you make a tourney run the whole state will be watching. It’s a big deal here.

Downside? Something about the IU admin: incompetence, internal politics, whatever, has made it hard to succeed at IU. I’ve never been able to totally explain it.

Might add that the fans will turn on you if you fail and boo you

 

[IUNorth]

IU should be appealing. Dolson has to do some selling but it shouldn’t be hard.

We’ve got the most NIL in the B1G, probably around #5-7 in country. Won’t get outbid often.
We’ve got the biggest AD budget for bball, so hire whatever staff you want.
Best fans, you get crowd advantages in NYC, ATL, Hawaii, wherever. Best home court.
Very good facilities.
History (not worth much I know).
More $ in comp.

A probably the big one for the coach’s ego: if you’re good you are top dog in Bloomington and the state. You play in bigger games with a national audience. If you make a tourney run the whole state will be watching. It’s a big deal here.

Downside? Something about the IU admin: incompetence, internal politics, whatever, has made it hard to succeed at IU. I’ve never been able to totally explain it.

Coaching in the B10 might also be in the 'downside' column...at least for the truly elite candidates.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Might add that the fans will turn on you if you fail and boo you

No. You are dead wrong.

We suck this year and avg 15K at AH — most in the conference. We had the clear crowd advantage in NYC vs UConn. We had a 50/50 crowd in ATL (Auburn’s backyard). Our fans are amazing.

If your IU team is ranked #100 and you give up vs an awful Penn St team at home and get blown out, you might get some boos end of game. Oh the humanity! Poor Woody!

Blaming our fans is so shallow. Our fans are too nice.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Coaching in the B10 might also be in the 'downside' column...at least for the truly elite candidates.

Yea. Bad style of play. Maybe an offset is it’s easy to win it.

 

[asindc]

Teams who can hold their core for a few years typically do better. Having RT & TJD really helped last year. Their experience was critical. We are really young in the front court. If KW, MR, and MM all return, we will be dangerous next year.

As always, experience matters, no matter how many stars you put next to an 18-year-old’s name. I think some fans (not just some IU fans) get caught up in recruiting rankings and forget that a 22-year-old 3-star is much more likely to be a better player than 18-year-old 5-star with zero experience beyond high school.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

A guy to keep an eye on is Lamont Paris at South Carolina. He was a Bo Ryan assistant. Then turned around Chattanooga. Now in his second year he has turned around South Carolina. They are 21-3 and leading the SEC. That is quite a feat at South Carolina.

 

[bbafficionado]

A guy to keep an eye on is Lamont Paris at South Carolina. He was a Bo Ryan assistant. Then turned around Chattanooga. Now in his second year he has turned around South Carolina. They are 21-3 and leading the SEC. That is quite a feat at South Carolina.

I guess he got them "over the hump"!