GOP fundraising for 2nd Q is proof the Trump mob runs the GOP and, with it, over half of the States.

[Spartans9312]

The problem with third party candidates is that too many people would be scared to vote for him because they don't think enough people would do it and fear their 2nd choice would lose out because of split votes.

The only way to give a third party candidate a chance is to have ranked voting where you get to roll back your vote to your 2nd choice if 1st choice ends up in last place.

Not a fan of manchin anyway. Bought and paid for by big oil.

What’s big oil?

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

What’s big oil?

have you been living in a box? look it up yourself if you are that clueless.

 

[Spartans9312]

have you been living in a box? look it up yourself if you are that clueless.

That’s what I thought.

Tell me a politician that isn’t owned by big ___. Bernie endorsed Biden. So he’s owned by big ___.

 

[larsIU]

Crazy that it’s shaping up to be trump Biden again. What a disaster

Manchin should enter the race

I told the wife this weekend if Manchin puts his name out there, he might have a chance. IN this one pocket of American history, the two possible candidates for president are so awful as to allow a 3rd party in. Bush I and Clinton were far superior to Trump/Biden and Perot still shook things up.

I think Manchin getting in is playing chicken with the two national parties to either choose different candidates or risk getting Manchined.

My preference is to vote for DeSantis.

I don't dislike DeSantis for his positions, such as they are. What I found repugnant was his shipping of very vulnerable people to somewhere else under the cover of darkness and using specious resources to do so.

Then he went to church.

Anybody that can do that to group of human beings will never get my vote. I'm sorry. He was the head executive of the state. The President of Florida, and this was his course of action. He'd have done himself, and his cause, more favors by keeping the folks in Florida and truly showing the economic impact of this kind of immigration policy.

But instead, he did what he did. So, not only morally repugnant but shortsighted as well.

 

[Spartans9312]

I told the wife this weekend if Manchin puts his name out there, he might have a chance. IN this one pocket of American history, the two possible candidates for president are so awful as to allow a 3rd party in. Bush I and Clinton were far superior to Trump/Biden and Perot still shook things up.

I think Manchin getting in is playing chicken with the two national parties to either choose different candidates or risk getting Manchined.


I don't dislike DeSantis for his positions, such as they are. What I found repugnant was his shipping of very vulnerable people to somewhere else under the cover of darkness and using specious resources to do so.

Then he went to church.

Anybody that can do that to group of human beings will never get my vote. I'm sorry. He was the head executive of the state. The President of Florida, and this was his course of action. He'd have done himself, and his cause, more favors by keeping the folks in Florida and truly showing the economic impact of this kind of immigration policy.

But instead, he did what he did. So, not only morally repugnant but shortsighted as well.

Fair enough.

Could Manchin win the Dem Primary?

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

I told the wife this weekend if Manchin puts his name out there, he might have a chance. IN this one pocket of American history, the two possible candidates for president are so awful as to allow a 3rd party in. Bush I and Clinton were far superior to Trump/Biden and Perot still shook things up.

I think Manchin getting in is playing chicken with the two national parties to either choose different candidates or risk getting Manchined.


I don't dislike DeSantis for his positions, such as they are. What I found repugnant was his shipping of very vulnerable people to somewhere else under the cover of darkness and using specious resources to do so.

Then he went to church.

Anybody that can do that to group of human beings will never get my vote. I'm sorry. He was the head executive of the state. The President of Florida, and this was his course of action. He'd have done himself, and his cause, more favors by keeping the folks in Florida and truly showing the economic impact of this kind of immigration policy.

But instead, he did what he did. So, not only morally repugnant but shortsighted as well.

If Manchin or another 3rd party candidate joins the fray, then that is only way I can see a path for a Trump victory. That could effectively split the votes of people that wouldn't vote for Trump.

Barring implementing ranked choice, I don't see 3rd party candidates as being to able to actually win but they could effect the outcome depending on who they take votes away from...which in this case Manchin is more likely to steal votes from Biden than Trump.

 

[larsIU]

Fair enough.

Could Manchin win the Dem Primary?

No

 

[DANC]

have you been living in a box? look it up yourself if you are that clueless.

Better than being bought by Big China, which was the Biden Crime Family is.

 

[DANC]

I told the wife this weekend if Manchin puts his name out there, he might have a chance. IN this one pocket of American history, the two possible candidates for president are so awful as to allow a 3rd party in. Bush I and Clinton were far superior to Trump/Biden and Perot still shook things up.

I think Manchin getting in is playing chicken with the two national parties to either choose different candidates or risk getting Manchined.


I don't dislike DeSantis for his positions, such as they are. What I found repugnant was his shipping of very vulnerable people to somewhere else under the cover of darkness and using specious resources to do so.

Then he went to church.

Anybody that can do that to group of human beings will never get my vote. I'm sorry. He was the head executive of the state. The President of Florida, and this was his course of action. He'd have done himself, and his cause, more favors by keeping the folks in Florida and truly showing the economic impact of this kind of immigration policy.

But instead, he did what he did. So, not only morally repugnant but shortsighted as well.

I wish the government would ship me to Martha's Vineyard. Or the Hamptons. I'm not picky.

 

[larsIU]

If Manchin or another 3rd party candidate joins the fray, then that is only way I can see a path for a Trump victory. That could effectively split the votes of people that wouldn't for Trump.

Barring implementing ranked choice, I don't see 3rd party candidates as being to able to actually win but they could effect the outcome depending on who they take votes away from...which in this case he is more likely to steal votes from Biden than Trump.

Biden's approval rating is hovering at 40%. Guess who else has a 40% appoval rating?

I'm not sure Biden's approval within the Dem party but I bet it's below Trump's in the Rebpublican party. There's a ton of people on the center right and center left who would vote for Manchin over Trump/Biden. I really believe that.

Hell, holding my nose still, I'd vote Manching over Biden right now. And that pains me to say that as I don't have much love for Manchin.

 

[larsIU]

I wish the government would ship me to Martha's Vineyard. Or the Hamptons. I'm not picky.

I get your point.

But if you were an immigrant who barely speaks Englisgh and they shuttle you away in the night as a political poker chip? It was shitty and there's no way around it. In my heart, I don't think George Bush would have done it. Not Obama, Clinton, Reagan, Bush I. None of them. There's times when you have to be a leader and not a political shitbag. He chose poorly.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

DeSantis' huge cash cow will dry up now that corps and Wall St execs have reached their donation limits. He's already laying off staff. He's dead in the water for 2024. He may even turn out to be a Scott Walker type. Total turd.

The others didn't bring in enough to survive much longer, except maybe Scott and Haley. Scott could be a veep for Trump, but the GOP belongs to the Trump mob at this point, just based on the #s (Trump's small donations will continue rolling in). He doesn't need to debate any of them, and I don't blame him.

John Adams said "even when the mob is on your side, it's still the mob", or something like that. The mob will continue on long after Trump, as will division.

I can see a 2024 election where AZ, GA, WI don't go along w a Biden victory, saying nothing of the reddest of states. Purplish states (60/40) like Indiana will have to make difficult decisions, as will the people who reside in them. We could have a country where for many years there is not a recognized official leader over all 50 states. Sounds nutty, but the GOP, although many stood up to Trump in 2020, is nothing but feckless and will go w the mob over the rule of law (to the extent it can't change the rule of law to make it more difficult to vote, etc.). Put short, I don't trust the GOP.

The country will come apart at the seams, I'm afraid. Within 30 years.

I think of all my GOP friends and fam and their "I want to see it all burned to the ground" talk in 2015. The people who have it the best wanting to see it all burned to the ground?! My brain and heart hurts.

No, I think I'll stay on the side that doesn't want it all burned to the ground, and by "it" I mean America.

Word salad.

Alt Right are working currently to build a parallel society, at least the capable, productive majority, becoming more independent, self-sufficient and decoupling from the hive-mind mentality hell-bent on dumbing down society to the level of 5 inch screen addicted rump shakers.

Stay there. It's where your destiny leads...

We'll be somewhere else.

 

[DANC]

I get your point.

But if you were an immigrant who barely speaks Englisgh and they shuttle you away in the night as a political poker chip? It was shitty and there's no way around it. In my heart, I don't think George Bush would have done it. Not Obama, Clinton, Reagan, Bush I. None of them. There's times when you have to be a leader and not a political shitbag. He chose poorly.

Would you rather be sent there or the south side of Chicago.

Is it any less shitty to send these people somewhere in the US they don't know? Or have them remain in squalid camps? The Federal government ships them all over the country. So what's the difference.

The hypocrisy of all these 'sanctuary cities' needed to be exposed and he did it. I'm glad he did it. The hypocrisy should shame you, but yet you blame Desantis for exposing it.

Those other Presidents you mentioned? None did shit about stemming the tide of illegal immigrants, so doing the opposite of what they would have done seems like a good plan.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Biden's approval rating is hovering at 40%. Guess who else has a 40% appoval rating?

I'm not sure Biden's approval within the Dem party but I bet it's below Trump's. There's a ton of people on the center right and center left who would vote for Manchin over Trump/Biden. I really believe that.

Hell, holding my nose still, I'd vote Manching over Biden right now. And that pains me to say that as I don't have much love for Manchin.

That was my point. Manchin isn't likely to steal Trump's votes but some people that may have held their nose for Biden might vote Manchin instead.

So lets say in a 2 person race

Biden gets 55% of the vote
Trump gets 45% of the vote

Add in Manchin

Biden gets 38% of the vote
Trump gets 40% of the vote
Manchin gets 22% of the vote

In a 1 vs 1 race, I don't see Trump being able to win. But if Manchin takes some of the vote then that changes the game and Trump could win because Manchin took away votes that Biden would have otherwise received had Manchin not been in the race.

It opens the door for Trump to win with mostly just his base and not having to worry about trying to get independents back to his side.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

No one likes that matchup, though I always thought Trump would be the Republican.

I can't understand how Desantis went down so fast. His JAG experience with the Navy and 6 years in the US House should have taught him how the system works. Maybe it's just a lack of people skills needed to establish new political relationships/alliances outside of Florida,

When likely voters peeled back the onion they found Jeb Bush.
As DeSantis first came into the public interest as Fla. Governor, he was seen as an attractive successor possibility for '28.
Greed and bad advice, coupled with the Jeb Bush taint has solidified for PDJT.
DeSantis is done for '24.

 

[mrhighlife]

I was joking around. I’m a millennial and under the age of 45. I hope we are more active than 60-70 year olds. We’d be a pathetic bunch if we weren’t.

We are compared to when they were our age as well.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I told the wife this weekend if Manchin puts his name out there, he might have a chance. IN this one pocket of American history, the two possible candidates for president are so awful as to allow a 3rd party in. Bush I and Clinton were far superior to Trump/Biden and Perot still shook things up.

I think Manchin getting in is playing chicken with the two national parties to either choose different candidates or risk getting Manchined.


I don't dislike DeSantis for his positions, such as they are. What I found repugnant was his shipping of very vulnerable people to somewhere else under the cover of darkness and using specious resources to do so.

Then he went to church.

Anybody that can do that to group of human beings will never get my vote. I'm sorry. He was the head executive of the state. The President of Florida, and this was his course of action. He'd have done himself, and his cause, more favors by keeping the folks in Florida and truly showing the economic impact of this kind of immigration policy.

But instead, he did what he did. So, not only morally repugnant but shortsighted as well.

Those poor smucks that went to bed one night, woke up the next morning, 5,000 miles from their bed, their cash reserves lessened by $10,000 holding a new cell phone and Joe Briben T-shirt from tommy bahamma.
If there was ever a ONE abduction story, the dang space people have upped their game to 40 million a year. Hit's me right in the Feelz I tell you!

 

[DANC]

When likely voters peeled back the onion they found Jeb Bush.
As DeSantis first came into the public interest as Fla. Governor, he was seen as an attractive successor possibility for '28.
Greed and bad advice, coupled with the Jeb Bush taint has solidified for PDJT.
DeSantis is done for '24.

I always said Desantis would have been smart to wait until 2028, when Trump would be out of the picture, one way or the other.

He could have coasted in Florida and been a superstar.

I think Desantis would make an excellent President - and I hope he does some day. Unfortunately, if he steps on his dick for 2024, it could ruin him, like Jeb Bush, as you pointed out.

He could still come back in 2028 if he plays his cards right. Nixon came from out of nowhere 8 years after losing in 1960. But he spent those 8 years building a solid base and looking like a moderate, compared to Goldwater. That's not an endorsement of Nixon, by the way. Pulling out of Vietnam the way we did and kissing China's ass - all Kissinger's ideas. He was played by Kissinger, imo.

 

[larsIU]

Would you rather be sent there or the south side of Chicago.

Is it any less shitty to send these people somewhere in the US they don't know? Or have them remain in squalid camps? The Federal government ships them all over the country. So what's the difference.

The hypocrisy of all these 'sanctuary cities' needed to be exposed and he did it. I'm glad he did it. The hypocrisy should shame you, but yet you blame Desantis for exposing it.

Those other Presidents you mentioned? None did shit about stemming the tide of illegal immigrants, so doing the opposite of what they would have done seems like a good plan.

DeSantis's actions should shame him. He help up that dead skunk of what he'd done like a badge of honor. And, for far too many, it is.

What DeSantis did was disqualifying for me. Even more so than Trump or Clinton's affairs and general misogyny.

DeSantis could have taken them all in and used their care and need as markers of the need to speed up immigration courts and processes, rethink immigration holistically, hell even to take stupid PR photos to show what a caring guy he is. But he didn't do any of that. He chose violence.

The only reason he did it was because he didn't have to look in their faces as he did so. P*ssy.

 

[larsIU]

That was my point. Manchin isn't likely to steal Trump's votes but some people that may have held their nose for Biden might vote Manchin instead.

So lets say in a 2 person race

Biden gets 55% of the vote
Trump gets 45% of the vote

Add in Manchin

Biden gets 38% of the vote
Trump gets 40% of the vote
Manchin gets 22% of the vote

In a 1 vs 1 race, I don't see Trump being able to win. But if Manchin takes some of the vote then that changes the game and Trump could win because Manchin took away votes that Biden would have otherwise received had Manchin not been in the race.

It opens the door for Trump to win with mostly just his base and not having to worry about trying to get independents back to his side.

I'm done with both parties at the presidential level. Shit, maybe the president should always be third party at this point. If Trump wins I think he gets impeached and convicted. Doesn't even matter what for but everybody can finally put him in a box.

 

[T.M.P.]

As opposed to the OP?

I am ready for Trump to move on so you guys can find something else to bitch about. He sucks. Biden sucks. This idea floating out there that someone is morally superior because they voted for an establishment backed asshole grifter potato over an outsider asshole grifter used car salesman is what gets old.

"OMG, I can't trust the GOP anymore because Trump...where is my couch to faint on?" It is beyond dumb. So when you have a dumb OP, you get a shitty response. Having a turnip representing us on the world stage is bad. Biden has had all the authoritarian proclivities of Trump...from lining his family's pockets down to forcing stuff through because it is what he wants to do. Our precious institutions? Faith in those is wrecked. Asshole? Screaming Joe just had article about what an absolute dickhead he is behind closed doors. Something that has spilled out more now that he doesn't have the cognitive ability to keep it under control as well anymore.

Donald isn't my pick. He would be towards the bottom of the available GOP candidates, but it isn't like Biden is any better.

Biden isn't near as bad as you make him out to be to equate the two shows an extreme bias on your part. Joe is too old ... it's all you have.... the rest is paranoid wishful rambling.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

I'm done with both parties at the presidential level. Shit, maybe the president should always be third party at this point. If Trump wins I think he gets impeached and convicted. Doesn't even matter what for but everybody can finally put him in a box.

If I was in charge, this is what I would do.

1) Let both parties nominate 5 candidates for president
2) Figure out a way to push for more moderate candidates from both parties
3) Run the primaries between the 2 remaining candidates of each party
4) Add in 3rd party candidate
5) Run a 2 round ranked choice election. If a voter's first choice finished in 3rd place in round 1, then the voter's 2nd choice becomes their vote in the 2nd and final round. That way people can feel free to vote for the third party candidate without worrying about it helping their last choice.

I would also add in an age limit of 70.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Biden isn't near as bad as you make him out to be to equate the two shows an extreme bias on your part. Joe is too old ... it's all you have.... the rest is paranoid wishful rambling.

Nah, they are both not great people. Every thing you could mark as a negative on one, you can find the same negative in the other.

 

[IUCrazy2]

If I was in charge, this is what I would do.

1) Let both parties nominate 5 candidates for president
2) Let the opposite party eliminate 3 of the candidates (this will hopefully push candidates back towards the center)
3) Run the primaries between the 2 remaining candidates of each party
4) Add in 3rd party candidate
5) Run a 2 round ranked choice election. If a voter's first choice finished in 3rd place in round 1, then the voter's 2nd choice becomes their vote in the 2nd and final round. That way people can feel free to vote for the third party candidate without worrying about it helping their last choice.

I would also add in an age limit of 70.

Nope. #2 is a terrible idea.

 

[snarlcakes]

We are compared to when they were our age as well.

That’s interesting. I wouldn’t have guessed that.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Nope. #2 is a terrible idea.

I guess it would likely backfire as parties would try to select the 2 worst candidates that they think they could beat the easiest.

So you're probably right, 2 needs to be changed. Edited original post.

Any ideas on how to get parties to put up more moderate candidates?

 

[larsIU]

If I was in charge, this is what I would do.

1) Let both parties nominate 5 candidates for president
2) Let the opposite party eliminate 3 of the candidates (this will hopefully push candidates back towards the center)
3) Run the primaries between the 2 remaining candidates of each party
4) Add in 3rd party candidate
5) Run a 2 round ranked choice election. If a voter's first choice finished in 3rd place in round 1, then the voter's 2nd choice becomes their vote in the 2nd and final round. That way people can feel free to vote for the third party candidate without worrying about it helping their last choice.

I would also add in an age limit of 70.

Too bad the parties run everything.

I like ranked choice. A lot.

 

[zeke4ahs]

From my POV a vote for Biden (again) is a vote for someone who is burning it all down....so yeah.

How exactly is Biden burning it all down? Biden is a typical politician. No more, no less. Too old, but beyond that, certainly not the danger that Trump would be in a second term where he has zero reason to be reigned in. Ask anyone who worked for him how dangerous it would be. They’ve been telling us all for years. Why won’t you believe them?

 

[zeke4ahs]

Sounds like your balls need to drop as well.

This is what Trumpers think good discussion is. Trump would be proud.

 

[zeke4ahs]

You old shrivs need to chill out, get off the internet and go spend some time with people under the age of 45.

You think maybe they wouldn’t be so obsessed with trans issues then? I’ve been trying to tell them that….

 

[zeke4ahs]

Biden has already burned the country to the ground. Inflation, outrageous gas prices, huge utility bill increases, acceptance of domestic terrorism in our cities, religious intolerance, lying, cheating, corruption, and on and on...... If you want to vote for this hot mess, go ahead, then we'll come pick you up and take you to the nearest mental facility.

That’s a whole bunch of nonsense and hyperbole. The US is doing better than almost everyone else in the country and inflation and gas are dropping. You can’t care about corruption, lying , cheating, or any of that if you are even considering voting for Trump. His entire four years was day after day another of his administration was in trouble. Not to mention his multiple indictments, with more rumored this week. So who is your choice?

 

[zeke4ahs]

I was joking around. I’m a millennial and under the age of 45. I hope we are more active than 60-70 year olds. We’d be a pathetic bunch if we weren’t.

So why do you post like an angry old man? Or a petulant teenager? Take your pick….

 

[zeke4ahs]

Fair enough.

Could Manchin win the Dem Primary?

Not even close.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Better than being bought by Big China, which was the Biden Crime Family is.

Proof? Never mind, of course not.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Biden's approval rating is hovering at 40%. Guess who else has a 40% appoval rating?

I'm not sure Biden's approval within the Dem party but I bet it's below Trump's in the Rebpublican party. There's a ton of people on the center right and center left who would vote for Manchin over Trump/Biden. I really believe that.

Hell, holding my nose still, I'd vote Manching over Biden right now. And that pains me to say that as I don't have much love for Manchin.

What policies does Manchin hold that you agree with? I can’t think of any Democrat besides Sinema I’d less likely vote for.

 

[IUCrazy2]

How exactly is Biden burning it all down? Biden is a typical politician. No more, no less. Too old, but beyond that, certainly not the danger that Trump would be in a second term where he has zero reason to be reigned in. Ask anyone who worked for him how dangerous it would be. They’ve been telling us all for years. Why won’t you believe them?

Again, I don't want Trump but Biden's use of the DOJ alone is disqualifying.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Would you rather be sent there or the south side of Chicago.

Is it any less shitty to send these people somewhere in the US they don't know? Or have them remain in squalid camps? The Federal government ships them all over the country. So what's the difference.

The hypocrisy of all these 'sanctuary cities' needed to be exposed and he did it. I'm glad he did it. The hypocrisy should shame you, but yet you blame Desantis for exposing it.

Those other Presidents you mentioned? None did shit about stemming the tide of illegal immigrants, so doing the opposite of what they would have done seems like a good plan.

How did what he did help anyone? Did it change anything? It was a publicity stunt. And it helped lead to his tanking popularity. Good job, Ron! He’s shown his political instincts are anything but astute.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Again, I don't want Trump but Biden's use of the DOJ alone is disqualifying.

How is Biden using the DOJ? Hint: he’s not. The DOJ is investigating a multitude of Trump crimes. If you don’t like him, surely you’d like to know the extent of those crimes.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Nah, they are both not great people. Every thing you could mark as a negative on one, you can find the same negative in the other.

That’s some first class both sides there. Trump has been accused of sexual harrassment by over 20 women. Trump had a fake university. Trump has lawsuits his entire life from people he screwed over. Trump lied like no other. He lied about Covid which very likely cost lives. Trump is stupid. Trump’s own people will tell you all of these things. Why don’t you believe them? No way, shape, or form are they equal.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

How is Biden using the DOJ? Hint: he’s not. The DOJ is investigating a multitude of Trump crimes. If you don’t like him, surely you’d like to know the extent of those crimes.

It's interesting that they accuse the current DOJ of being used by Biden but I don't recall them having much issue when Barr was "he who shall not be named"'s lackey. They only had an issue when Barr put his foot down over Jan 6.