Good Woodson Interview on NIL & Next Year
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Yes but they don’t have to be loaded with it. Who is the big time NBA talent on NC st, Purdue, Alabama?
Every year there are teams that make Cinderella like runs. You want IU to be like any of those programs? Seriously?
Purdue had an NBA guy on their roster, by the way. And they better have a couple more emerging, or they aren't gonna be all that good any more.
FAU had a couple guys that will probably play some in the NBA. And even that wasn't sustainable the following year, even though they returned everyone.
Miami had a couple guys drafted in the 2nd round.
All those teams you mentioned, outside of PU, had mediocre regular seasons and made unexpected runs.
I'd prefer IU to become a team that has consistently good regular seasons, and are talked about as Final Four favorites on a fairly consistent basis. And you can't be a program like that without having NBA level kids on your roster.
There are outlier examples every year. But the teams that have multiple Final Fours, multiple Natty's, are consistently top 10...all of them, in the last 10-15 years...they've done it with a blend of NBA kids and program fit kids. And while Purdue doesn't fit that criteria I just laid out, even they needed a generational NBA level big man to achieve that level of success.
I’m just saying it isn’t a must to get it done. Hell look at our 87 team. Syracuse had way more talent but we had the better team.
UK has 4 guys going first round this year and lost to Oakland
You're talking about singular games. Final Fours and Nattys happen when you're consistently good enough to compete for them. Put yourself in the position enough times, and eventually you'll get the breaks, have the right combo of players, etc...
There's a reason why Wisconsin, Purdue, the schools you mentioned...have either never won one, or haven't in half a century or more.
I want IU to hang some more banners. And right now, you can't do it without having an NBA level guy or two, or more, on your roster.
Wisky and Pu have been better than IU and have been to more finals fours in last 20 years. You have to walk before you run.
Talent hasn’t been the issue in Btown, we have had enough talent to be consistently in the hunt
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IU has had horrible coaching, by and large. And even at that...since we're all using arbitrary time frames to make our cases...in the last 22 years, they've been to the same amount of FF's.
And it took NBA talent in Kaminsky and Dekker to get Wisconsin there. And a generational, likely NBA level Big man, to get Purdue there.
Also...who are you talking about with needing more returning players, more longer term program guys?
IU has 6 returning guys on our roster. 2 of them are 5th year seniors, 1 of them is a junior.
They recruited 2 guys that are likely multi year transfers, and 1 more that could be if he wants to be and gets granted his last year (Goode).
The 5 star guy they got is likely a multi year guy (as has been every 5 star guy Woodson has recruited).
The only player on our entire roster that is obviously a 1 year rental is Ballo...the exact same number that Purdue has had the last couple years.
Literally every single team Woodson has coached at IU, has been led by veteran, muti year IU guys.
Our problems have been that we haven't had the right coach. Our recruiting approach is fine. There is absolutely ZERO reason to lower our talent level standards. We just need to find a coach that can pick the right talented guys and coach them well.
Agree but that coaching has been the issue not talent. Also JHS was a 5 star one and done .
I would say PU and whisky have been more consistent. Hell PU should have went to final four when Virginia won it. Freak play on a missed FT and PU has two in last 6 years
Virginia had a couple NBA guys on that team...talent often finds ways to win games like that.
JHS wasn't recruited with any inkling he'd be a 1 and done. And likely wouldn't have been had X not gotten hurt.
Just go back and look at the last...10,15,20 National Champions. Guessing every single one of them had at least 1, usually multiple, obvious NBA level players. And if there was one that broke through...ok...Ill still take the UConn, Kansas, Wright/Villanova, Carolina...approach...for IU, because they can do it, over Purdue, who can't do it.
This is a dumb argument. If you want IU to be nationally relevent, to be Final Four competitive, they need to keep recruiting NBA level talent...no matter who the coach is.
But it's going to take the right coach to pick the right kids, and blend them with the right "program" type kids. Woody has had a blend of NBA and program type kids on all his teams. He just hasn't coached them well enough, and/or had the right kids.
Not disagreeing with your overall point (need nba talent), but looking at some of those examples, they were not big time recruits.
Edey will get drafted but was not recruited as NBA talent,
Frank Kaminsky did nothing as a freshman.
Had either of this players signed with iu, they probably transfer.
I’m saying we have had that talent and done nothing with it: why you getting upset?
No doubt Syracuse had much better talent but we had a better team (although let’s face it….if the Cuse hit their free throws we would have lost).
I think the ‘87 team was RMK’s greatest championship achievement because it was his least talented team to win it all. That being said even that roster had 4 guys, none of them remotely close to impact players in the NBA,that made an NBA roster (Smart only played in 2 games, Calloway for 1 season, Alford rode the bench for 4 years and Garret played for 7 seasons). Although none of the 4 were impact players in the NBA just getting a cup of coffee in the league, and/or lasting 7 years, puts them above 98% of their fellow college players.
Out of curiosity I just took a look and 6 players on the 75-76 roster made an NBA team and played in the league. Three of the 6 only lasted a season or two but the other three played between 7-11 seasons.
Iu has always had enough talent(recruiting hasn’t ever been issue). Finding a coach since knight has been the issue. That’s why I’m reserved on how good we will be next year.
We had a first round center and 2 other 5 star players in our starting 5 and missed the ncaa tournament.
This is a valid argument and concern...but you invariably bring this back to modeling our program after ones like Purdue, and you tie that to the talent level.
UConn, Kansas, Villanova, Carolina...that is the way for IU, because we can, and would be stupid not to strive for that.
The key is the coach. I don't think Woody's the guy. But this next roster is different from his first 3, hopefully its one he can coach better. If not, find someone that can coach, and IU's resources will help him be wildly successful.
Villanova isnt like the others…they had a really good coach for the run they had. Much like Gonzaga will go away after Few leaves
Yeah, you could be "Wright" about that. Gonzaga started their emergence before Few, but obviously he's sustained it, and made them a major program. Nova has been down versus what Wright had going there for a while, but its probably too early to make your claim conclusively.
Overall though, yeah...UConn, Kansas, and Carolina are probably better comps and models. With Villanova though, it was just a master class in matching high end/NBA level talent with a specific and effective style.
Might as well finish…..
Also looked at the 80-81 championship team. Four of the players played at least a few seasons in the NBA including Hall of Famer IT. In addition I think most would agree that, if not for the tragic accident, there was a 90% probability that Landon Turner would have been the 5th on that roster to make the NBA.
On his radio show Jim Coyle has said that the last 6 NCAA champs had at least 4 NBA draftees on their roster. Definitely need talent and coaching to win it all (and a little luck sometimes).
Virginia had six guys on that roster that made a NBA team. Coyle has said (I didn’t double check it) that the last 6 champs had at least 4 NBA players.. I’ll have to look it up but know there was a very long stretch in which each winning team had at least three.
I personally wouldn’t draft Clingan high. He averaged line 13 minutes his fresh year and 22 minutes his Soph season-injury prone. Big difference between that and a full NBA season.
Those average minutes are just games he appeared in so doesn’t include the games he missed entirely. Considerable injury risk.
This is obviously possible, but I give NBA scouting personnel and processes a little more credit than being overly influenced by a couple weeks of play on TV.
That level of exposure can't hurt though, obviously. But there's the element that good and draft worthy players are more likely to play well and help their teams have success in the NCAAs, than lesser players...
There's SOOO much exposure, data, tape, etc... nowadays on pretty much everyone, that I doubt NCAA tourney runs boost profiles as much as they used to. The draft combines probably have more of an impact than NCAA tournament showings.
I'm sure those things will be big considerations by NBA teams. He's a pretty versatile and long 7'+ big though. It would depend on my team needs, and draft position, on whether or not I'd take him. No clue what draft spot is appropriate, that would also depend on who else is available...but he'll provide a fair bit of value to anyone that needs an active 2nd team big, that can guard multiple positions, block shots, rebound, and is a lob threat.
One good thing about this discussion is that next NBA season will provide a large amount of data about his susceptibility to injuries under NBA conditions so let’s remember this and see his minutes and injuries.
He doesn't have to be the guy to win w this crew. I like the high expectations, though.
The roster looks like a talented and deep one to me. Night and day from last year, even less Ware. Any coach would like this group.
I think IU is in a decent spot now. Woody doesn't have a ton of tread left on the tires. He knows that. This year will tell the tale.
Our roster is too good to not be in the mix top-3 or 4. I’m not a Woody fan, but he will have learned some things the past few years and I doubt we implode like last year.
Yep... he'll get drafted somewhere in first round, and first rounders are usually given chances to play early on. It'll be interesting how he handles it.
Guys like Lively, and TJD, have shown how valuable 20 minutes ish per game backup bigs can be. Clingan will be drafted pretty high I think because shoring up defense and rebounding in that 2nd unit, with a guy that can finish at the rim, is in pretty high demand.
I expect he will be a high draft choice (I stated I wouldn’t draft him high). Time will tell about his injury susceptibility and worth. TJD was last player drafted and Lively has no history of injuries.
Lively had some injuries at Duke. He missed a couple games from it, and his minutes were limited because of it, early on especially.
TJD's impact, and the narrative that everyone else "missed" on him, will make GM's more comfortable with using valuable draft capital on an imperfect big man prospect...was my point in including him.
Doesn't matter. I'm sure his injury history will impact his draft position. Without it, he could have been top 5 pick level.
Clingan missed 5. I suppose TJD could have an impact on some GM’s draft evaluation of Clingan but I doubt it.
They list Lively at 7’1” and 230 lbs, Clingan at 7’2” 280 lbs. so Clingan has around 50 more lbs to get up and down the court. Clingan shot 58% from the line and 25% from 3 last season while Lively shot 15% and 60% his freshman year. Their freshman stat lines are very similar.
Andre Jackson is a good example but a lot of guys don’t start out well. JHS, as an example, is often mentioned as a high draft choice but he scored a total of 34 points on 22% shooting.
JHS had the kind of season that prepares you for playing in Europe. Shooting is his weak point, he can get hot but not often enough. His shot from 3 is flat and so high ball velocity and not great hops inside. He has a very tough path forward to stick in the NBA.
The Lakers as a team have a tough path forward at this point.
Porzingis hit some nice shots last night and looks like Brad Stevens will make it over that last hump.
The Warriors are at the point they need to blow it up so interesting to see how it impacts TJD if they do.
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