I think the portal will have better options, and probably safer options for production, but I think getting those portal kids is a fair bit more expensive than getting a kid ranked 60th out of HS would be.
Good News: Last Year
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At some point this will all level out a bit, and the value return on getting a top 100 HS kid, paying him less than the portal kid, but keeping him for a couple years, will get some of those kids back on P4 rosters, earlier. But right now, arms race/wild west, teams are spending 7 figures on guys like last years Rutgers big.
And Rutgers is getting nothing out of that except publicity and both of those kids could be NBA all stars.
Both Harper and Bailey will be out of there in 4 months.
Do OaDs even attend class after the first semester?
What RU did get out of it was a team...those two score almost half of their points. Without them, they would be B1G bottom dwellers this year.
Check back in with RU basketball in 12 months and see where it is. I have my doubts.
I think it’s a bit unfair to assume they don’t go to class. IF you are the same Chicago on the political board then I understand why you think that. If you aren’t no offense intended. There’s a horribly racist dude over there with Chicago in his screen name.
That's true on Bailey and Harper. Though I'd say they'll be relevant by the end of the year.
I was referring to Omoyuri.
Oh. My bad. And they might be. Harper is one of those freshman I think could be a major contributor on a title type team. Not that I think Rutgers is that.
Roughly 2/3rds of the RSCI top 20 recruits are in the NBA 5 years later.
That drops to about 1/5th for to 21-50 ranked players, then is marginal from 51-100.
Point being, just avoid paying for automatic 1 and done players like Harper and Bailey unless it will make your team a major contender. There's no reason for NIL to pay for poor return. Most of the money should be performance based. Give them a signing bonus based on their HS ranking, but that should be all. The rest comes after you go 11-1 and make it to the college football playoffs (oops, sorry Kel'el Ware, you lose), and that should be a team distribution anyway.
The whole thing stinks.
Musa Jallow is a basketball player who committed to play for Ohio State during Thad Matta's time as head coach:
- Offer: Jallow received an offer from the Buckeyes before Matta's tenure ended in June 2017.
Plenty of zero tolerance behaviors in hiring, stated or unstated. I don't see anything wrong with putting it in writing and having that discussion beforehand.
he would be on my list. i heard years ago that IU was not of interest to him. but I bet that has changed.
Yeah. We also need that other guy who reported everything he heard about the coaching search that he heard at the car wash. Who was that anyway?
Not sure but it was funny to have constant personal knowledge reports that Donovan, Steven’s, take your pick, were done deals. There were NO reports about Woodson.
I "know some people"...as everyone claims...a few days after the Stevens smoke, I started hearing Woodson's name. Honestly, it didn't bother me a ton at the time. And then I actually got really excited about the whole thing when Fife and Matta were also hired. I think my initial grade for the Woodson hire was C+...with main concerns being he was an average NBA coach, that hadn't been able to get a head job for a fair bit... But then changed the grade up to B+/A-, I think, when Fife and Matta were brought on.Not sure but it was funny to have constant personal knowledge reports that Donovan, Steven’s, take your pick, were done deals. There were NO reports about Woodson.
Regrade...I still give it a C, maybe C-. There has been some "healing" in the program with the Knight family, it seems. And while we haven't been any level of contending team since Woodson arrived, I do think he's stabilized IU a bit, and the program is actually on solid footing for whoever we hire next. The next 3-4 months could change that, if not handled well...either by Woodson himself, or by the IU decision makers. But as of now, despite not being who we all want IU basketball to be...it could be worse.
I appreciate your thoughtful posts, but I must say ... you grade on quite the curve. I wish you had been my high school teacher.
Maybe... and all the grades aren't in yet. But I kinda doubt its gonna dumpster fire crash and burn like the Sampson debacle. And despite how mediocre he is, in so many ways, he's still been better, for IU, than Archie was. Maybe there's a curve, maybe not...I don't think its "F" territory, at all. Maybe D+???
My main issue is this: A tradition-rich blue blood hired a guy who was on no other team's radar ... simply because he was a great player for Knight 40 years ago. Hell, he didn't get a HC'ing sniff in his final 10 NBA seasons ... and he was an "NBA guy."
Yes, Archie sucked and had the personality of a tadpole, but I can't imagine another coach doing less with more than MW. And, while I don't personally know the "King of Indiana," he sure does come across as a lazy a-hole. He might understand the significance of IU basketball, but he sure doesn't seem to treat the program with much respect.
It's sad that younger IU fans will primarily know Woody as a poor coach--and Quinn as the clueless guy who hired him--than two former Hoosier greats.
Good. Don't need those kind of guys. You cannot build mental toughness if the players are comfortable.
let me start by saying, I am with you, in spirit. One hundred percent.
that said, let me address your first paragraph, and as always..this is just my opinion. I was not impressed or excited with the CMW hire. I fell for the Stevens mirage (again) and when that blew up, I was pretty Fn sour. I too thought the additions of Fife and Matta were, on the surface, a positive thing...strength in numbers type of situation. But knowing what we now have learned, I also remember thinking that it was a very unusual set up, something you just don't see...ever, at a program like IU bball. And that should have been our first red flag right out of the gate. Their departures after just one season...Fife going down in flames, and Matta slipping away silently in the middle of the night...more red flags. Something about it was not right from the get go, and the experiment failed.
Your comment on the "Knight family healing" ....I was thinking about this last week. And I've come full circle on that subject. I'm an old school RMK defender....in the 80s living deep within Purdue territory, not an easy task. And watched all 3 championship games (edit 4 including the 2002 MD loss). Every game, every season. WTTV channel 4. Ted Kitchel was my idol. I've always wondered how an imaginary game between the 76 team and the late season 81 team would turn out. Talk about talent.
That said, it's nearly c/y 2025 now. RMK is gone. All the admin who ran him out are gone. Every kid we recruit now has never seen an IU team coached by RMK. None have ever seen IU in the F4. None have any belief that IU is a 'blueblood". We cannot forget our past, but we have to let go of it. We've become the basketball version of Nebraska football. We still believe we're special, inside our bubble here...but the rest of the nation has moved on. We're now looking at a possible coaching change for the 6th time since RMK left. And the 3rd inside of 8 yrs. All signs of a program that just cannot get its shit right anymore.
Regardless of CMW's departure date, be it end of this season, or 1-2 yrs down the road, he's not going to be the head coach of our future. The next coaching pick, in my humble opinion, is the school's last shot to get IU back to where it once was. You say 'it could be worse', and yes, the fallout after the Sampson firing was much worse. But after 16 yrs, upgraded facilities, program legacy, coaching changes, tv exposure, and massive amount of NIL investment, it really ought to be better. Much better.
Dumpster fire, maybe not. But as far as how close he is now to disaster:
Beat Rutgers, @PSU, and USC = back on track to a competitive season
Beat Rutgers, lose @PSU, beat USC = likely not going to the tourney and Mike can think about hiring a realtor.
Lose any two of those 3? Wheels fall off and it gets ugly before the end of the season.
That's where he is now, having squandered a number of chances to "get over the hump". You might even argue that the Rutgers game, by itself, is now the 'heads or tails' to Woodson's future.
Current NET for IU is 67 and Rutgers at 88. A home win will not have an impact on tourney prospects (Quad 3) but a loss will push IU out of “on the bubble” as far as interim NET rating is concerned.
Chattanooga is 213 and Winthrop 193-yuck home games to lead into conference schedule.
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Keep in mind that the idea of “Knight family healing” wasn’t just about healing a fan base. It was about healing the Knight “family” of former players and staff. No one expected Knight to walk back through the door as coach, but I at least held out hope that there was a group of former players and staff that previously had not been made to feel very welcome, and as a program we could tap into them as a resource.
The last couple of decades have been tough, but I’m convinced now that the problems are greater than just the coach. I’m not convinced that had we hired Steven’s that things would look all that elite now either.
But, back to the idea of healing the IU family of former players, I really expected MW to lean into that. To tap into not just Thad and Dane, but all of the other former players and staff that were part of IU basketball when the culture was good.
Instead, it seems that he feels that the only thing he needs to tap into is what he brings to the table, and his NBA experience. I also think that NIL and the portal reinforces that self reliance even more. What does he care about what IU basketball used to be (and the culture that existed) when the game is now all about NIL and the portal (mimicking the pros).
I think you're taking my "grades" as if I think a C is impressive...I don't. A C is, by definition, mediocre. We're a mediocre program, right now, being led by a mediocre coach.
It could be worse though... we've seen and experienced worse.
I've posted that I don't think the next decision should factor in RMK ties. I don't think that has anything to do with stating that one of the benefits of the Woodson era has been some healing with the Knight family...and by family I mean RMK himself, his actual family (Pat kissing the court this year at the exhibition game was really, really cool)...but then also players loyal to RMK, that are now "back in the building". THAT very particular aspect of the Woodson era has been beneficial. Saying that doesn't mean I think that justifies him keeping his job, at this point. Or that the next coach needs to have ANY connection to RMK.
I don't think the next job is IU's "last shot" at anything. Time will move on, college bball will continue to exist, and Indiana will continue to have high levels of resources for years and years and years. Tom Crean built a team, I'd argue with less of a resources advantage than an IU coach has nowadays, in less than 3 years from ashes to number 1 in the country. If we whiff on our next hire, it just pushes it a handful of years down the road. Eventually, we'll get the right coach.
Georgetown tried to please John Thompson 1st with his son then Patrick Ewing, how did that work out, finally hired a proven winner in Cooley, they beat #21 Creighton by 25 last night
Cooley will likely do well at Georgetown. That was a good hire for them, I think.
I think it is sad that if this goes down as I suspect and Woodson doesn't bow out gracefully, one of my favorites players will no longer exist to me since he would not be willing to do what is best for IU.
And for me, the double Whammy is Buckner was my FAVORITE player when I was no campus and for him to (rumored) be a driving force to this whole fiasco is troubling to say the least.
makes sense on paper (Knight family healing)...but then we learn that guys like Brian Evans and Calbert are fighting text wars and Evans is banned from practices. (Leary too apparently). So much for healing.
And agree about Stevens. I've thought about that more the past couple years. This image of Brad being IU's potential savior was probably overblown. We'll never know.
As for CMW mimicking the NBA, well, he was a very mediocre coach in the NBA. So I guess the results at IU are mimicking his NBA coaching success.
