Golden Globes

[Aloha Hoosier]

True. But if that's your logic, you might as well say, "My vote wouldn't have mattered, because Trump won by at least 2 votes, anyway."

My vote didn't mater because Trump won by 454,983 votes. And as I've said, and I know you disagree, it was NEVER in doubt in Ohio and the results proved it. I achieved my personal goals and I still have that to feel good about . . .

 

[twenty02]

Aloha's argument is that his hands are clean of Trump because there weren't enough third party voters to swing the election to Clinton in his state. But a third party vote has the same effect as a non-vote. Add those voters together, and there are more than enough potential votes to swing the state.

That's quite a stretch, man.

By and large, this is a very voting apathetic country, compared with almost every democracy around the world. We can't ever hit 60% turnout. We have the leaders we deserve...but that's more a function of a crappy system than anything else. People think their votes don't matter.....and by and large they don't.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

My vote didn't mater because Trump won by 454,983 votes. And as I've said, and I know you disagree, it was NEVER in doubt in Ohio and the results proved it. I achieved my personal goals and I still have that to feel good about . . .

I'm not doubting you feel good about it. I'm specifically arguing against your insistence you don't share some responsibility for Trump. We all share some responsibility. Everyone who didn't vote for Clinton shares some. Everyone who didn't do enough to help Clinton win shares some. Everyone who took part - whether in the general, or the primary, or earlier - in damaging Clinton's reputation shares some. If you believe, as I do, that Clinton was a uniquely bad candidate, then anyone who voted for Clinton in the primary shares some. Hell, even leaving Clinton out of it, every Republican who didn't see - or did see, but didn't work to stop - the rise of know-nothing nationalism in the party shares some.

You have every right to feel happy with your choices. Just don't delude yourself into thinking your "hands are clean" on the Trump issue. All of our hands have some dirt on them.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

That's quite a stretch, man.

By and large, this is a very voting apathetic country, compared with almost every democracy around the world. We can't ever hit 60% turnout. We have the leaders we deserve...but that's more a function of a crappy system than anything else. People think their votes don't matter.....and by and large they don't.

I'm not saying it's realistic that Ohio could have been flipped. I'm saying that Aloha's logic that he's completely clean of Trump because there weren't enough third-party voters is flawed. That's all. The "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For X" bumper sticker has always been nonsense. Everyone who is part of this polity who thinks Trump was a mistake can probably come up with a list of dozens if not hundreds of things they could have done to help defeat him in some small way. All it takes is a bit of introspection.

 

[twenty02]

I'm not doubting you feel good about it. I'm specifically arguing against your insistence you don't share some responsibility for Trump. We all share some responsibility. Everyone who didn't vote for Clinton shares some. Everyone who didn't do enough to help Clinton win shares some. Everyone who took part - whether in the general, or the primary, or earlier - in damaging Clinton's reputation shares some. If you believe, as I do, that Clinton was a uniquely bad candidate, then anyone who voted for Clinton in the primary shares some. Hell, even leaving Clinton out of it, every Republican who didn't see - or did see, but didn't work to stop - the rise of know-nothing nationalism in the party shares some.

You have every right to feel happy with your choices. Just don't delude yourself into thinking your "hands are clean" on the Trump issue. All of our hands have some dirt on them.

Meh....I don't think that's fair. People have lives to live, families to raise, jobs, careers, illnesses, whatever.

Getting out to vote is about the most anyone living a normal life can be expected to do.

The reality is that there are a lot of people that were drawn to Trump's message, for whatever specific reason. I didn't understand it....but I also did very well during the Obama years (career and investments). Others clearly didn't, and I can't put myself in their shoes and see things like they did.

 

[twenty02]

I'm not saying it's realistic that Ohio could have been flipped. I'm saying that Aloha's logic that he's completely clean of Trump because there weren't enough third-party voters is flawed. That's all. The "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For X" bumper sticker has always been nonsense. Everyone who is part of this polity who thinks Trump was a mistake can probably come up with a list of dozens if not hundreds of things they could have done to help defeat him in some small way. All it takes is a bit of introspection.

Fk man...I voted for Ted freaking Cruz...just in some desperate hope to get to a brokered convention (as they were the only two left in Indiana). How much more you want me to do than that? I took 3 showers that night.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Meh....I don't think that's fair. People have lives to live, families to raise, jobs, careers, illnesses, whatever.

Getting out to vote is about the most anyone living a normal life can be expected to do.

The reality is that there are a lot of people that were drawn to Trump's message, for whatever specific reason. I didn't understand it....but I also did very well during the Obama years (career and investments). Others clearly didn't, and I can't put myself in their shoes and see things like they did.

Well, it wouldn't be fair if I was saying, "Aloha, you suck because you caused Trump!" I'm not. I'm just having a discussion about logic. I'll readily admit that I could have done more myself. But, as you say, I had a life to live. I don't feel bad about my lack of pro-Clinton activism. But I am also not going to sit here and proclaim my hands are clean. The country as a whole caused Trump. Maybe that's the best way to put it. We aren't victims of something forced upon us. We are active participants.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Fk man...I voted for Ted freaking Cruz...just in some desperate hope to get to a brokered convention (as they were the only two left in Indiana). How much more you want me to do than that? I took 3 showers that night.

That is definitely a big sacrifice.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I'm not doubting you feel good about it. I'm specifically arguing against your insistence you don't share some responsibility for Trump. We all share some responsibility. Everyone who didn't vote for Clinton shares some. Everyone who didn't do enough to help Clinton win shares some. Everyone who took part - whether in the general, or the primary, or earlier - in damaging Clinton's reputation shares some. If you believe, as I do, that Clinton was a uniquely bad candidate, then anyone who voted for Clinton in the primary shares some. Hell, even leaving Clinton out of it, every Republican who didn't see - or did see, but didn't work to stop - the rise of know-nothing nationalism in the party shares some.

You have every right to feel happy with your choices. Just don't delude yourself into thinking your "hands are clean" on the Trump issue. All of our hands have some dirt on them.

Your logic is illogical. I have zero responsibility for the the election results and it’s mathematically indisputable.

 

[twenty02]

Well, it wouldn't be fair if I was saying, "Aloha, you suck because you caused Trump!" I'm not. I'm just having a discussion about logic. I'll readily admit that I could have done more myself. But, as you say, I had a life to live. I don't feel bad about my lack of pro-Clinton activism. But I am also not going to sit here and proclaim my hands are clean. The country as a whole caused Trump. Maybe that's the best way to put it. We aren't victims of something forced upon us. We are active participants.

I'll say that anyone that voted for Hillary during the primary has the most dirt on their hands. She's probably the only Democrat in the country that could have lost that election to Trump.

We all talked all of 2016 that Hillary's negatives were just as high as Trump's.

Dems also would do very well to abandon Pelosi ASAP. What an anchor that is for the midterms.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I'll say that anyone that voted for Hillary during the primary has the most dirt on their hands. She's probably the only Democrat in the country that could have lost that election to Trump.

We all talked all of 2016 that Hillary's negatives were just as high as Trump's.

Dems also would do very well to abandon Pelosi ASAP. What an anchor that is for the midterms.

That's a good point too. Trump was an awful candidate and it turned out HRC was worse. Biden would have gotten a lot of the Trump votes and likely would have won.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I'll say that anyone that voted for Hillary during the primary has the most dirt on their hands. She's probably the only Democrat in the country that could have lost that election to Trump.

We all talked all of 2016 that Hillary's negatives were just as high as Trump's.

Dems also would do very well to abandon Pelosi ASAP. What an anchor that is for the midterms.

Yup. She was terrible. But you can't blame people selectively. Some hands may be dirtier than others, but none are entirely clean.

 

[iuwclurker1]

Are you a math challenged Kentuckian? I'll explain it to you and type really slowly so you can understand. All the candidates without a D or an R by their name in Ohio got 236,410 votes and I voted for one of them (Johnson). Also in Ohio, Trump got 2,771,984 votes and HRC got 2,317,001 votes. 2,771,984 - 2,317,001 = 454,983. 236,410 < 454,983. Therefore, if every single person that voted for someone other than HRC or Trump voted for HRC (in itself a moronic idea), HRC still would have lost handily. It amazes me that anyone with an IQ above two digits, which I believe includes everyone here, wouldn't understand this simple mathematic fact. I didn't want to vote for HRC. I didn't want to vote for Trump. I didn't want to have anything to do with either of them winning the Presidency. I achieved those goals. Those who don't understand that can stick it where the sun don't shine!

I didn't even know what your discussion was about, I was just goofing with your post about arithmetic. But now that I do, yeah, you've said that many times and every time it's been pretty obvious that Hillary was never going to win Ohio. Just like it's pretty obvious Democrats are never going to be pragmatic. Some things, past, present, or future, we can hold self evident.

 

[iuwclurker1]

Lurker hasn't even won his ongoing battle with the English language, much less an argument about Oprah.

Still butthurt because your party hasn't done jack shit for ghettos in the last 100 years (the one thing CoH got right)? Still butthurt because there are plenty of arch-conservatives who have done more for poor blacks in Indianapolis in one week than you'll do in a lifetime?

Name one way you helped an indigent person this year, you two-bit ideological chump.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I didn't even know what your discussion was about, I was just goofing with your post about arithmetic. But now that I do, yeah, you've said that many times and every time it's been pretty obvious that Hillary was never going to win Ohio. Just like it's pretty obvious Democrats are never going to be pragmatic. Some things, past, present, or future, we can hold self evident.

You don’t have to stick it where the sun don’t shine. You got that going for you.

“Where the sun doesn’t shine” would be more grammatically correct, but that’s not how the saying goes . . .

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Still butthurt because your party hasn't done jack shit for ghettos in the last 100 years (the one thing CoH got right)? Still butthurt because there are plenty of arch-conservatives who have done more for poor blacks in Indianapolis in one week than you'll do in a lifetime?

Name one way you helped an indigent person this year, you two-bit ideological chump.

I told a guy that tried to wash my window shield the other day that he should get a real job. Does that count?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Still butthurt because your party hasn't done jack shit for ghettos in the last 100 years (the one thing CoH got right)? Still butthurt because there are plenty of arch-conservatives who have done more for poor blacks in Indianapolis in one week than you'll do in a lifetime?

Name one way you helped an indigent person this year, you two-bit ideological chump.

LOL.

 

[Morrison]

Yup. She was terrible. But you can't blame people selectively. Some hands may be dirtier than others, but none are entirely clean.

I'll say that anyone that voted for Hillary during the primary has the most dirt on their hands. She's probably the only Democrat in the country that could have lost that election to Trump.

We all talked all of 2016 that Hillary's negatives were just as high as Trump's.

Dems also would do very well to abandon Pelosi ASAP. What an anchor that is for the midterms.

My hands must be filthy. I donated $1000 to O’Malley’s campaign, and the schmuck dropped out 3 days later. Yea, I’m an idiot. I voted for Hillary over Bernie in the primary, mostly because I didnt like that Bernie refused to become a Democrat, along with my distrust of him regarding foreign policy and defense. I’m more moderate than progressive on some things, so I was hoping for a Rubio-Clinton match up in the fall. Also, I agree that an opportunity was missed for the Dems to replace Pelosi with Tim Ryan. Under the circumstances of the Dem primary and general election results, that should’ve been no brainer.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

My hands must be filthy. I donated $1000 to O’Malley’s campaign, and the schmuck dropped out 3 days later. Yea, I’m an idiot. I voted for Hillary over Bernie in the primary, mostly because I didnt like that Bernie refused to become a Democrat, along with my distrust of him regarding foreign policy and defense. I’m more moderate than progressive on some things, so I was hoping for a Rubio-Clinton match up in the fall. Also, I agree that an opportunity was missed for the Dems to replace Pelosi with Tim Ryan. Under the circumstances of the Dem primary and general election results, that should’ve been no brainer.

The filthiest hands are among the people who voted for Trump. So we're all playing for a distant second place, anyway.

I also thought keeping Pelosi was a huge mistake. Ryan would have been a great replacement. However, I have to admit that Pelosi has been saying the right things since. I don't trust her to not screw it up at some point, but at least she hasn't done so yet.

 

[iuwclurker1]

LOL.

Simple enough request. Name one. Can't do it? Didn't think so. All talk, no action. Who you got in your 2018 fantasy league?

 

[meridian]

Simple enough request. Name one. Can't do it? Didn't think so. All talk, no action. Who you got in your 2018 fantasy league?

Ivanka Trump! She is better looking than Donald.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Simple enough request. Name one. Can't do it? Didn't think so. All talk, no action. Who you got in your 2018 fantasy league?

You're on fire. Keep it up.

 

[MrBing]

I get that she's mostly a celebrity in your eyes. I'm trying to figure out why you're putting her down so much, despite your saying you like her yada yada yada. Are you putting down celebrities in general? Al Franken, a former celebrity, was being considered for 2020 until he was exposed as a butt cheeker. What qualified him to go from comedian to US senator?

I don't necessarily think Oprah would make a good president. I'm just not ruling her out for the pathetically simplistic and stereotyped reason that she's a "celebrity." Sheesh, guy, you haven't even let her campaign yet.

Our Founding Fathers qualified Oprah for POTUS. Guess you're smarter than they are...

I'm not putting her down. None of us are putting her down. I think she's a great woman with a lot of accomplishments. Calling her a celebrity isn't an insult it's what she is. I think we've explained enough why we are looking for someone else to run and I think we've explained we'd vote for her if she wins the nomination and runs against Trump. We just want someone else. For me that is a more traditional candidate with relevant governing experience. You need to learn to tolerate different opinions especially on your own team.

 

[iuwclurker1]

I'm not putting her down. None of us are putting her down. I think she's a great woman with a lot of accomplishments. Calling her a celebrity isn't an insult it's what she is. I think we've explained enough why we are looking for someone else to run and I think we've explained we'd vote for her if she wins the nomination and runs against Trump. We just want someone else. For me that is a more traditional candidate with relevant governing experience. You need to learn to tolerate different opinions especially on your own team.

I don't need to tolerate your simplistic thinking and posting. Especially not on my team. For starters, if you're going to pigeonhole her under one category, it's talk-show host, not celebrity. You need to get used to people calling you out on your unnuanced approach to discussion. That's what got us Trump -- Trumpians and their simplistic, unnuanced approach to life.

 

[MrBing]

I don't need to tolerate your simplistic thinking and posting. Especially not on my team. For starters, if you're going to pigeonhole her under one category, it's talk-show host, not celebrity. You need to get used to people calling you out on your unnuanced approach to discussion. That's what got us Trump -- Trumpians and their simplistic, unnuanced approach to life.

Man you have issues. She's a celebrity whether you like it or not and GFY. I'm not going to tolerate you period.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Man you have issues. She's a celebrity whether you like it or not and GFY. I'm not going to tolerate you period.

The part of this I don't get, why do some assume political virgins are well qualified? If I had to have brain surgery, I wouldn't look for someone who has never conducted an operation. If I owned a baseball team, I wouldn't look for a centerfielder who has never played baseball before. If I owned a restaurant, I wouldn't go looking for a chef who has never cooked. Heck, I wouldn't hire someone who has never worked with computers to manage my servers. Why is politics the one area that we think anyone can just walk in off the street and do the job perfectly well?

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

I'm not doubting you feel good about it. I'm specifically arguing against your insistence you don't share some responsibility for Trump. We all share some responsibility. Everyone who didn't vote for Clinton shares some. Everyone who didn't do enough to help Clinton win shares some. Everyone who took part - whether in the general, or the primary, or earlier - in damaging Clinton's reputation shares some. If you believe, as I do, that Clinton was a uniquely bad candidate, then anyone who voted for Clinton in the primary shares some. Hell, even leaving Clinton out of it, every Republican who didn't see - or did see, but didn't work to stop - the rise of know-nothing nationalism in the party shares some.

You have every right to feel happy with your choices. Just don't delude yourself into thinking your "hands are clean" on the Trump issue. All of our hands have some dirt on them.

You’re wasting your time. As usual a post of mine got into his head from him not following me around the forum. I can’t explain the obsession.

 

[MrBing]

The part of this I don't get, why do some assume political virgins are well qualified? If I had to have brain surgery, I wouldn't look for someone who has never conducted an operation. If I owned a baseball team, I wouldn't look for a centerfielder who has never played baseball before. If I owned a restaurant, I wouldn't go looking for a chef who has never cooked. Heck, I wouldn't hire someone who has never worked with computers to manage my servers. Why is politics the one area that we think anyone can just walk in off the street and do the job perfectly well?

Only lurker is smart enough to know why we should be looking at Oprah as a serious Presidential contender.