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Getting serious about Islamist terrorism

Rockfish1

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Here is a piece explaining why calls for us to blame Islam for violent Islamist terrorism play right into the hands of ISIS and al Qaeda:

For al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) and the Islamic State, propaganda is their most important tool for shaping perceptions, polarizing support and mobilizing a small but potent fringe of Western supporters. However, strategic communication to offset this propaganda is broadly recognized as a major counterterrorism weakness. My research suggests that calls for secular Western governments to focus on countering extremist ideology with their own ideology-centric counternarratives are ill-advised, because such strategies are likely ineffective if not counterproductive.

A disproportionate focus on ideology when trying to understand propaganda’s appeal will likely result in misguided counter-strategies. Instead, it is valuable to explore how extremist messaging is designed to leverage psychosocial forces and strategic factors pertinent to their audiences. I analyzed the contents of AQAP’s Inspire and the Islamic State’s Dabiq English-language magazines to understand how each seeks to appeal to and radicalize its readers. Published in the Australian Journal of Political Science and Studies in Conflict and Terrorism, this research provides insight into not just the strategic logic of AQAP and Islamic State’s propaganda strategies targeting the West but also what drives people to support them.

. . . To exacerbate perceptions of crisis among their Western readership, these magazines often highlight the singling out of Muslim populations in the West — whether as the disproportionate targets of national security efforts or the focus of populist anti-Islam rhetoric, as in this excerpt from Inspire:

… your belongingness to Islam is enough to classify you as an enemy. As a matter of fact, they look at us as Muslim youth regardless of our appearance and education. They do not consider our citizenship and the childhood we spent in their neighborhoods. … Our enemies treat us as Muslims only, nothing more. … One treatment, one blame.
Populist politicians in the United States, Europe and Australia who seek political advantage with Islamophobic dog-whistle politics are actually doing more to boost the appeal of extremism than counter it. Such rhetoric helps to intensify perceptions of crisis across Muslim communities and fuel the psychosocial conditions within which extremist propaganda tends to resonate. It also crudely validates the “competitive systems of meaning” advanced by groups like Islamic State and AQAP. Furthermore, when that rhetoric manipulates fears among disenfranchised sections of the broader community and ties their sense of crisis to certain races and religions (out-groups) and solutions to a utopian nationalist identity (in-group), it empowers far-right extremists and helps to broaden their appeal. [Rockfish: Note how our extremists and theirs feed off each other.]

Better-intentioned politicians and counterterrorism authorities may also be inadvertently and more subtly undermining efforts to counter extremism. Many Muslims living in the West have expressed their exasperation with the constant pressure to describe themselves as “moderates.” This view is frequently echoed during my travels in the Middle East and South Asia. As one Syrian activist said to me: “Why do you insist on us saying that we are ‘moderates?’ I am a Muslim, this is Islam. That’s it. Or do you want us to lose credibility in our audience’s eyes? When you insist I say ‘moderate,’ that’s for you. To my audience, that means not Islam.” Using “moderate” Muslims as the champions of government schemes or demanding that Muslims identify themselves as “moderates” risks inadvertently delegitimizing those voices in their communities, especially among those most vulnerable to propaganda’s siren call. [Rockfish: Note that this exactly what those who are most convinced they understand the terror threat call for us to do.]​

Since no later than September 11, 2001, it has been clear that we face a serious terrorist threat from violent Islamist extremists. But those who claim to be the most serious about combatting this threat remain the least serious about understanding it. As a result, our policy discussions tend to locate only along the strong-weak axis, without consideration of the smart-stupid axis.

To understand what's going on, we must first confront our own ignorance, and start asking serious questions with minds open to answers that don't flatter our preconceptions. Or at least that's what we'd do if we really were serious about combatting the threat.

(By the way, the piece is studded with links that aptly illustrate the author's points. It's worth at least glancing at them to know what specific examples the author intends.)
 
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Very good read and extremely intellectually written. When he says “Why do you insist on us saying that we are ‘moderates?’ I am a Muslim, this is Islam. That’s it. Or do you want us to lose credibility in our audience’s eyes? When you insist I say ‘moderate,’ that’s for you." Does that mean there are not bad Islamist/Muslims only Muslims One could read the article and leave with the conclusion that all are enemies. He leads one to believe when he states "Muslims identify themselves as “moderates” risks inadvertently delegitimizing those voices in their communities, especially among those most vulnerable to propaganda’s siren call." that it is necessary to portray yourself as an extremist in order to have your voice heard and that being a moderate delegitimizes the Muslim beliefs.
 
I have a question for legal experts that I have never seen addressed here or anywhere else. Considering the US and the people of the US consider each individual is free to choose his or her own religion and authorities have no say in that, is there any legal approach to addressing "extremist Islam"?

I hope that question is clear enough. The contrast that I see would be addressing the individual leaders of such groups as psychopaths (or whatever) and seeking legal address in that respect. If we refer to these maniacs as the psychopaths that they are, thus divorcing their atrocities from their cover -- Islam -- then I don't see why "moderate" Muslims would have to do or say anything related to their religion. All they would have to say is, "Oh, those psychopaths. Yeah, bring them to trial."

As for the followers of the psychopaths, you bombard them with the message that they are not following any sort of Islam, but rather they are following psychopaths.
 
I don't think Christians would want to be referred to as "moderate Christians". This implies they are lukewarm and not devout. Thus I can understand why Muslims think the same way.

I remember a friend who was converted to the Roman Catholic faith and became very devout along with frequently telling others how wonderful his newly found faith was. After listening to him expound on his faith I heard one of his fellow Catholics exclaim, "Those converts can certainly be radical".
 
Very good read and extremely intellectually written. When he says “Why do you insist on us saying that we are ‘moderates?’ I am a Muslim, this is Islam. That’s it. Or do you want us to lose credibility in our audience’s eyes? When you insist I say ‘moderate,’ that’s for you." Does that mean there are not bad Islamist/Muslims only Muslims One could read the article and leave with the conclusion that all are enemies. He leads one to believe when he states "Muslims identify themselves as “moderates” risks inadvertently delegitimizing those voices in their communities, especially among those most vulnerable to propaganda’s siren call." that it is necessary to portray yourself as an extremist in order to have your voice heard and that being a moderate delegitimizes the Muslim beliefs.

I think it was an awful read

Academic jargon and passive writing style makes this difficult to absorb. But I get the point, and, if I am correct about it, I agree. We are opening the door for the Islamic extremists to exploit the notion that the West sees Islam as something like an enemy, unless Muslims show themselves to be moderate.

This idea rests on the mistaken belief that if we focus on AQ and ISIS as being Muslim, we are criticizing all of Islam and playing right into the hands the recruiters. Maybe. But I disagree with the premise. I don't think noting that ISIS us Islamic is a condemnation of all of Islam. But many think it is, including millions of people ranging from goat here to President Obama. When the Attorney General of the United States went on national and world-wide TV and told Muslims in the US after the San Bernardino mass murder that the United States had their back and would prosecute backlash events, she did more to make the point that many of us consider Islam an enemy than anything anyone could say about the murders.

I think the NFL could be an apt analogy. When it's players commit acts of domestic violence, the condemnation by the league is swift and heavy. While some uber-feminists condemn the league for this, most don't. But that doesn't mean the league should not take a major role in stopping it beyond just talking about it. Same here. Islam needs to step up.

Back to the article. There are a myriad of reasons why young men join gangs. Most of those center around feelings of being separated, abandoned, and ostracized. That morphs into the gang being your friend while everyone else is the enemy. This article simply describes this using a different spin. ISIS has the same appeal as a gang.
 
Islam needs to step up.
What legal or constitutional recourse do we have to cause "Islam to step up"? If none, then why view that as a solution from our point of view? For us, a solution has to be something we can implement, not begging others to do our bidding. Our solution has to fit within our constitutional and legal framework. What is such a solution?
 
I have a question for legal experts that I have never seen addressed here or anywhere else. Considering the US and the people of the US consider each individual is free to choose his or her own religion and authorities have no say in that, is there any legal approach to addressing "extremist Islam"?

I hope that question is clear enough. The contrast that I see would be addressing the individual leaders of such groups as psychopaths (or whatever) and seeking legal address in that respect. If we refer to these maniacs as the psychopaths that they are, thus divorcing their atrocities from their cover -- Islam -- then I don't see why "moderate" Muslims would have to do or say anything related to their religion. All they would have to say is, "Oh, those psychopaths. Yeah, bring them to trial."

As for the followers of the psychopaths, you bombard them with the message that they are not following any sort of Islam, but rather they are following psychopaths.

That's a question that cannot be answered

Is ISIS led or inspired murder inside the US an act of war or is it a crime? The analysis is complicated by the fact that terrorism is a crime under our criminal codes, but it is also a war crime under the so called rules of war.

All we can say for sure is that everything is different and the old rules don't always apply.

One point that I wrestle with is should freedom of expression include protection for those who intend to destroy freedom of expression?
 
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Here is a piece explaining why calls for us to blame Islam for violent Islamist terrorism play right into the hands of ISIS and al Qaeda:

For al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) and the Islamic State, propaganda is their most important tool for shaping perceptions, polarizing support and mobilizing a small but potent fringe of Western supporters. However, strategic communication to offset this propaganda is broadly recognized as a major counterterrorism weakness. My research suggests that calls for secular Western governments to focus on countering extremist ideology with their own ideology-centric counternarratives are ill-advised, because such strategies are likely ineffective if not counterproductive.

A disproportionate focus on ideology when trying to understand propaganda’s appeal will likely result in misguided counter-strategies. Instead, it is valuable to explore how extremist messaging is designed to leverage psychosocial forces and strategic factors pertinent to their audiences. I analyzed the contents of AQAP’s Inspire and the Islamic State’s Dabiq English-language magazines to understand how each seeks to appeal to and radicalize its readers. Published in the Australian Journal of Political Science and Studies in Conflict and Terrorism, this research provides insight into not just the strategic logic of AQAP and Islamic State’s propaganda strategies targeting the West but also what drives people to support them.

. . . To exacerbate perceptions of crisis among their Western readership, these magazines often highlight the singling out of Muslim populations in the West — whether as the disproportionate targets of national security efforts or the focus of populist anti-Islam rhetoric, as in this excerpt from Inspire:

… your belongingness to Islam is enough to classify you as an enemy. As a matter of fact, they look at us as Muslim youth regardless of our appearance and education. They do not consider our citizenship and the childhood we spent in their neighborhoods. … Our enemies treat us as Muslims only, nothing more. … One treatment, one blame.
Populist politicians in the United States, Europe and Australia who seek political advantage with Islamophobic dog-whistle politics are actually doing more to boost the appeal of extremism than counter it. Such rhetoric helps to intensify perceptions of crisis across Muslim communities and fuel the psychosocial conditions within which extremist propaganda tends to resonate. It also crudely validates the “competitive systems of meaning” advanced by groups like Islamic State and AQAP. Furthermore, when that rhetoric manipulates fears among disenfranchised sections of the broader community and ties their sense of crisis to certain races and religions (out-groups) and solutions to a utopian nationalist identity (in-group), it empowers far-right extremists and helps to broaden their appeal. [Rockfish: Note how our extremists and theirs feed off each other.]

Better-intentioned politicians and counterterrorism authorities may also be inadvertently and more subtly undermining efforts to counter extremism. Many Muslims living in the West have expressed their exasperation with the constant pressure to describe themselves as “moderates.” This view is frequently echoed during my travels in the Middle East and South Asia. As one Syrian activist said to me: “Why do you insist on us saying that we are ‘moderates?’ I am a Muslim, this is Islam. That’s it. Or do you want us to lose credibility in our audience’s eyes? When you insist I say ‘moderate,’ that’s for you. To my audience, that means not Islam.” Using “moderate” Muslims as the champions of government schemes or demanding that Muslims identify themselves as “moderates” risks inadvertently delegitimizing those voices in their communities, especially among those most vulnerable to propaganda’s siren call. [Rockfish: Note that this exactly what those who are most convinced they understand the terror threat call for us to do.]​
Since no later than September 11, 2001, it has been clear that we face a serious terrorist threat from violent Islamist extremists. But those who claim to be the most serious about combatting this threat remain the least serious about understanding it. As a result, our policy discussions tend to locate only along the strong-weak axis, without consideration of the smart-stupid axis.

To understand what's going on, we must first confront our own ignorance, and start asking serious questions with minds open to answers that don't flatter our preconceptions. Or at least that's what we'd do if we really were serious about combatting the threat.

(By the way, the piece is studded with links that aptly illustrate the author's points. It's worth at least glancing at them to know what specific examples the author intends.)

It mostly comes down to jobs. Sinking jobs.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/jordan-instability-fears-growth-slows-081110141.html

Anyone reading those mags is already a lost cause as far as radicalization. It's like drugs, once you start taking to radicals over the internet and are vulnerable mentally it's hard to stop it. The bigger problem on a mass scale is lack of economic opportunity. Better economy=less isolation.
 
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What legal or constitutional recourse do we have to cause "Islam to step up"? If none, then why view that as a solution from our point of view? For us, a solution has to be something we can implement, not begging others to do our bidding. Our solution has to fit within our constitutional and legal framework. What is such a solution?

Our legal framework can only address symptoms

Our justice system is intended to punish people for committing crimes. While we like to think the justice system will prevent crimes that function is overstated and has a lot of constitutional issues involved.

Terrorism or other potential acts of war within our borders is an increasing worry and threat. While we have some ways to deal with that when the bad actor is a country, like Russia or China, our ability to cope is limited when the bad actor is an ideology or religion, like Islam. For some strange reason we have managed to politicize the debate on how to approach or think about this issue.

Edit: to answer your question. One way to deal with Islamic terror is for the west and Islam to bring the full weight of public opinion and moral authority to bear. President of Egypt al-Sisi, talked about this a few years ago. We should support him and help with that, but officially he is on our shit-list so we don't.
 
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our ability to cope is limited when the bad actor is an ideology or religion, like Islam. For some strange reason we have managed to politicize the debate on how to approach or think about this issue.
For some strange reason, you and your kindred spirits cannot distinguish between ideology and insanity. That's on you, not us. Tell me all about Hitler's ideology, Mao's ideology, Stalin's ideology. pfffft


I'll give you a hint. If you think an insane person can't rise to the leadership of a country, you've got another think coming.
 
Edit: to answer your question. One way to deal with Islamic terror is for the west and Islam to bring the full weight of public opinion and moral authority to bear. President of Egypt al-Sisi, talked about this a few years ago. We should support him and help with that, but officially he is on our shit-list so we don't.
I submit that's impossible under any rubric of "Islam," extremist or otherwise. As soon as you add the term "Islam" you guarantee a lack of consensus and you also guarantee that average Janes and Joes will think you're attacking the same Islam they know to be good.

I submit that the only consensus you're likely to reach is that ISIS leaders are psychopaths (insert a better choice of word if you have one), and that the only inroads you'll make on adherents of ISIS or people susceptible to becoming adherents is by appealing to them in non-Islamic terms, that is, by declaring ISIS to NOT be a religion (not even an extreme form) but merely and only sick individuals whose behavior has become psychotic.
 
I submit that's impossible under any rubric of "Islam," extremist or otherwise. As soon as you add the term "Islam" you guarantee a lack of consensus and you also guarantee that average Janes and Joes will think you're attacking the same Islam they know to be good.

I submit that the only consensus you're likely to reach is that ISIS leaders are psychopaths (insert a better choice of word if you have one), and that the only inroads you'll make on adherents of ISIS or people susceptible to becoming adherents is by appealing to them in non-Islamic terms, that is, by declaring ISIS to NOT be a religion (not even an extreme form) but merely and only sick individuals whose behavior has become psychotic.

You say nothing

"Psychopath" signals an abnormally destructive behavior. This means its relative to normality. We think beheading people at a Paris concert venue who are not Muslim is abnormal. They don't.
 
You say nothing

"Psychopath" signals an abnormally destructive behavior. This means its relative to normality. We think beheading people at a Paris concert venue who are not Muslim is abnormal. They don't.
"They"?

#WasteOfTime #OldWhiteMales #HaveAGoodTandem
 
I found this case study about how Johnson and Johnson handled the Tylenol poisoning deaths from back in 1982:

Before the crisis, Tylenol was the most successful over-the-counter product in the United States with over one hundred million users. Tylenol was responsible for 19 percent of Johnson & Johnson's corporate profits during the first 3 quarters of 1982. Tylenol accounted for 13 percent of Johnson & Johnson's year-to-year sales growth and 33 percent of the company's year-to-year profit growth. Tylenol was the absolute leader in the painkiller field accounting for a 37 percent market share, outselling the next four leading painkillers combined, including Anacin, Bayer, Bufferin, and Excedrin. Had Tylenol been a corporate entity unto itself, profits would have placed it in the top half of the Fortune 500 (Berge, 1998).

During the fall of 1982, for reasons not known, a malevolent person or persons, presumably unknown, replaced Tylenol Extra-Strength capsules with cyanide-laced capsules, resealed the packages, and deposited them on the shelves of at least a half-dozen or so pharmacies, and food stores in the Chicago area. The poison capsules were purchased, and seven unsuspecting people died a horrible death. Johnson & Johnson, parent company of McNeil Consumer Products Company which makes Tylenol, suddenly, and with no warning, had to explain to the world why its trusted product was suddenly killing people (Berge, 1998).

Primary Evidence. Robert Andrews, assistant director for public relations at Johnson & Johnson recalls how the company reacted in the first days of the crisis: "We got a call from a Chicago news reporter. He told us that the medical examiner there had just given a press conference-people were dying from poisoned Tylenol. He wanted our comment. As it was the first knowledge we had here in this department, we told him we knew nothing about it. In that first call we learned more from the reporter than he did from us." Andrew's dilemma points out something that has become more prevalent with the expansion of 24 hour electronic media. The media will often be the first on the scene, thus have information about the crisis before the organization does (Berge, 1990).

Johnson & Johnson chairman, James Burke, reacted to the negative media coverage by forming a seven-member strategy team. The team's strategy guidance from Burke was first, "How do we protect the people?" and second "How do we save this product?" The company's first actions were to immediately alerted consumers across the nation, via the media, not to consume any type of Tylenol product. They told consumers not to resume using the product until the extent of the tampering could be determined. Johnson & Johnson, along with stopping the production and advertising of Tylenol, withdraw all Tylenol capsules from the store shelves in Chicago and the surrounding area. After finding 2 more contaminated bottles Tylenol realized the vulnerability of the product and ordered a national withdraw of every capsule (Broom, 1994).

By withdrawing all Tylenol, even though there was little chance of discovering more cyanide laced tablets; Johnson & Johnson showed that they were not willing to take a risk with the public's safety, even if it cost the company millions of dollars. The end result was the public viewing Tylenol as the unfortunate victim of a malicious crime (Broom, 1994).

Since cyanide was what was killing people and not Tylenol, would the anyone suggest it was unnecessary that all Tylenol was removed from the shelf? Was the fear of ingesting tainted medicine not logical considering how the media reported the events? Would Johnson and Johnson have been better served by pointing out the miniscule likelihood of becoming a victim of tainted Tylenol, or were they correct in putting concern for public safety first and putting the PR and financial hit aside?

Why is it so illogical to expect non-radicalized Muslims to be at the forefront of the movement to quash the bastardization of their religion?
 
That is the most ridiculous comparison I've ever seen on any circumstance from anyone, anywhere. And I'm old. Pat yourself on the back.
 
That is the most ridiculous comparison I've ever seen on any circumstance from anyone, anywhere. And I'm old. Pat yourself on the back.
Are we not talking about public relations? What do you find so ridiculous?
 
Maybe you should direct your comments to the Chairman of Muslim.
Many major cities have leadership councils who could produce counter publications, websites and videos. I am sure some do, and as visibility of those kinds of efforts increases, so will the effort of non-Muslims to understand the inherent nuances of the Muslim religion in general. The comparison illustrates the value of putting public safety above all else.
 
Why is it so illogical to expect non-radicalized Muslims to be at the forefront of the movement to quash the bastardization of their religion?
I dunno, maybe something similar to expecting you to be at the forefront of quashing Trump's bastardization of American intelligence?

On second thought, nah. Trump's bastardization is real. Of course, both ISIS and Trump are insane, so there is that similarity.
 
I think it was an awful read

Academic jargon and passive writing style makes this difficult to absorb. But I get the point, and, if I am correct about it, I agree. We are opening the door for the Islamic extremists to exploit the notion that the West sees Islam as something like an enemy, unless Muslims show themselves to be moderate.

This idea rests on the mistaken belief that if we focus on AQ and ISIS as being Muslim, we are criticizing all of Islam and playing right into the hands the recruiters. Maybe. But I disagree with the premise. I don't think noting that ISIS us Islamic is a condemnation of all of Islam. But many think it is, including millions of people ranging from goat here to President Obama. When the Attorney General of the United States went on national and world-wide TV and told Muslims in the US after the San Bernardino mass murder that the United States had their back and would prosecute backlash events, she did more to make the point that many of us consider Islam an enemy than anything anyone could say about the murders.

I think the NFL could be an apt analogy. When it's players commit acts of domestic violence, the condemnation by the league is swift and heavy. While some uber-feminists condemn the league for this, most don't. But that doesn't mean the league should not take a major role in stopping it beyond just talking about it. Same here. Islam needs to step up.

Back to the article. There are a myriad of reasons why young men join gangs. Most of those center around feelings of being separated, abandoned, and ostracized. That morphs into the gang being your friend while everyone else is the enemy. This article simply describes this using a different spin. ISIS has the same appeal as a gang.
Dah forgot the tongue in cheek or DWS. The article reminds me of nitwits who try and justify the holocaust. We were Germans and under the control of Hitler.
 
Prove it.
Well, I posted a scholar's explanation that we play right into the hands of ISIS and al Qaeda when we emphasize the Muslim-y Islamitude of those committing terrorist attacks. You initially said:

Academic jargon and passive writing style makes [sic] this difficult to absorb. But I get the point, and, if I am correct about it, I agree.
Then, however, you proceeded to disagree with it:

This idea rests on the mistaken belief that if we focus on AQ and ISIS as being Muslim, we are criticizing all of Islam and playing right into the hands the recruiters. Maybe. But I disagree with the premise. I don't think noting that ISIS us Islamic is a condemnation of all of Islam. But many think it is, including millions of people ranging from goat here to President Obama.
It's impossible to reconcile this with your claim that you agree with the piece, which expressly makes the opposite point. Indeed, the research on which the piece is based tells us that many Muslims do believe "noting that ISIS us Islamic is a condemnation of all of Islam." This is precisely the point that al Qaeda propaganda focuses on:

… your belongingness to Islam is enough to classify you as an enemy. As a matter of fact, they look at us as Muslim youth regardless of our appearance and education. They do not consider our citizenship and the childhood we spent in their neighborhoods. … Our enemies treat us as Muslims only, nothing more. … One treatment, one blame.
And in your case, it's beyond doubt that you blame all Islam. ("Islam needs to step up.") It's your constant refrain that the "good" Muslims aren't doing their job against the terrorists. (You're like Trump: "And some, I suppose, are good people.") And look at this:

When the Attorney General of the United States went on national and world-wide TV and told Muslims in the US after the San Bernardino mass murder that the United States had their back and would prosecute backlash events, she did more to make the point that many of us consider Islam an enemy than anything anyone could say about the murders.
In your mind, reassurance from the Attorney General that the United States government will protect American Muslims against an anti-Islamic backlash is somehow a greater motivation to terrorists than the Islamophobia rampant in posts like yours. You think Muslims would otherwise have been unaware of the rampant Islamophobia in this country?

We need to actually think about what we're doing. Perhaps we could look to sources like the author of the piece I linked:

Dr Haroro J. Ingram is a research fellow with the Coral Bell School, Australian National University (Canberra). His primary postdoctoral research project analyses the role of propaganda in the strategies of violent non-state political movements with Islamic State and the Afghan Taliban as major case studies. This three-year project is funded by the Australian Research Council under its Discovery Early Career Researcher Award (DECRA). As a research associate with the International Centre for Counter-terrorism (ICCT, The Hague), Ingram is working on the Counter-terrorism Strategic Communications (CTSC) Project team and has authored or co-authored several articles on a range of topics related to how best to understand and counter extremist propaganda.

Ingram’s research draws heavily on primary source materials, most of which is collected during periods of fieldwork in South Asia (Afghanistan) and the Middle East (Iraq). He has interviewed civilians as well as current and former activists and fighters from Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechnya and Syria. His field research has also included interviews with current and former counterinsurgency and counterterrorism operatives. Ingram is currently a research associate with the International Centre for Counter-terrorism (ICCT) in The Hague and a Visiting Fellow with the Naval Postgraduate School's Defense Analysis Department (Monterey, California). Prior to accepting his current role with the Australian National University, Ingram worked in a variety of national security roles.
Or we could satisfy ourselves with the ignorant preconceptions of flatulating buttheads who have no idea what they're talking about. This doesn't strike me as a tough call.
 
Here is a piece explaining why calls for us to blame Islam for violent Islamist terrorism play right into the hands of ISIS and al Qaeda:

For al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) and the Islamic State, propaganda is their most important tool for shaping perceptions, polarizing support and mobilizing a small but potent fringe of Western supporters. However, strategic communication to offset this propaganda is broadly recognized as a major counterterrorism weakness. My research suggests that calls for secular Western governments to focus on countering extremist ideology with their own ideology-centric counternarratives are ill-advised, because such strategies are likely ineffective if not counterproductive.

A disproportionate focus on ideology when trying to understand propaganda’s appeal will likely result in misguided counter-strategies. Instead, it is valuable to explore how extremist messaging is designed to leverage psychosocial forces and strategic factors pertinent to their audiences. I analyzed the contents of AQAP’s Inspire and the Islamic State’s Dabiq English-language magazines to understand how each seeks to appeal to and radicalize its readers. Published in the Australian Journal of Political Science and Studies in Conflict and Terrorism, this research provides insight into not just the strategic logic of AQAP and Islamic State’s propaganda strategies targeting the West but also what drives people to support them.

. . . To exacerbate perceptions of crisis among their Western readership, these magazines often highlight the singling out of Muslim populations in the West — whether as the disproportionate targets of national security efforts or the focus of populist anti-Islam rhetoric, as in this excerpt from Inspire:

… your belongingness to Islam is enough to classify you as an enemy. As a matter of fact, they look at us as Muslim youth regardless of our appearance and education. They do not consider our citizenship and the childhood we spent in their neighborhoods. … Our enemies treat us as Muslims only, nothing more. … One treatment, one blame.
Populist politicians in the United States, Europe and Australia who seek political advantage with Islamophobic dog-whistle politics are actually doing more to boost the appeal of extremism than counter it. Such rhetoric helps to intensify perceptions of crisis across Muslim communities and fuel the psychosocial conditions within which extremist propaganda tends to resonate. It also crudely validates the “competitive systems of meaning” advanced by groups like Islamic State and AQAP. Furthermore, when that rhetoric manipulates fears among disenfranchised sections of the broader community and ties their sense of crisis to certain races and religions (out-groups) and solutions to a utopian nationalist identity (in-group), it empowers far-right extremists and helps to broaden their appeal. [Rockfish: Note how our extremists and theirs feed off each other.]

Better-intentioned politicians and counterterrorism authorities may also be inadvertently and more subtly undermining efforts to counter extremism. Many Muslims living in the West have expressed their exasperation with the constant pressure to describe themselves as “moderates.” This view is frequently echoed during my travels in the Middle East and South Asia. As one Syrian activist said to me: “Why do you insist on us saying that we are ‘moderates?’ I am a Muslim, this is Islam. That’s it. Or do you want us to lose credibility in our audience’s eyes? When you insist I say ‘moderate,’ that’s for you. To my audience, that means not Islam.” Using “moderate” Muslims as the champions of government schemes or demanding that Muslims identify themselves as “moderates” risks inadvertently delegitimizing those voices in their communities, especially among those most vulnerable to propaganda’s siren call. [Rockfish: Note that this exactly what those who are most convinced they understand the terror threat call for us to do.]​
Since no later than September 11, 2001, it has been clear that we face a serious terrorist threat from violent Islamist extremists. But those who claim to be the most serious about combatting this threat remain the least serious about understanding it. As a result, our policy discussions tend to locate only along the strong-weak axis, without consideration of the smart-stupid axis.

To understand what's going on, we must first confront our own ignorance, and start asking serious questions with minds open to answers that don't flatter our preconceptions. Or at least that's what we'd do if we really were serious about combatting the threat.

(By the way, the piece is studded with links that aptly illustrate the author's points. It's worth at least glancing at them to know what specific examples the author intends.)

Obama may be the founder of ISIS, according to Trump, but Trump and people like him are their top recruiters.
 
Well, I posted a scholar's explanation that we play right into the hands of ISIS and al Qaeda when we emphasize the Muslim-y Islamitude of those committing terrorist attacks. You initially said:

Academic jargon and passive writing style makes [sic] this difficult to absorb. But I get the point, and, if I am correct about it, I agree.
Then, however, you proceeded to disagree with it:

This idea rests on the mistaken belief that if we focus on AQ and ISIS as being Muslim, we are criticizing all of Islam and playing right into the hands the recruiters. Maybe. But I disagree with the premise. I don't think noting that ISIS us Islamic is a condemnation of all of Islam. But many think it is, including millions of people ranging from goat here to President Obama.
It's impossible to reconcile this with your claim that you agree with the piece, which expressly makes the opposite point. Indeed, the research on which the piece is based tells us that many Muslims do believe "noting that ISIS us Islamic is a condemnation of all of Islam." This is precisely the point that al Qaeda propaganda focuses on:

… your belongingness to Islam is enough to classify you as an enemy. As a matter of fact, they look at us as Muslim youth regardless of our appearance and education. They do not consider our citizenship and the childhood we spent in their neighborhoods. … Our enemies treat us as Muslims only, nothing more. … One treatment, one blame.
And in your case, it's beyond doubt that you blame all Islam. ("Islam needs to step up.") It's your constant refrain that the "good" Muslims aren't doing their job against the terrorists. (You're like Trump: "And some, I suppose, are good people.") And look at this:

When the Attorney General of the United States went on national and world-wide TV and told Muslims in the US after the San Bernardino mass murder that the United States had their back and would prosecute backlash events, she did more to make the point that many of us consider Islam an enemy than anything anyone could say about the murders.
In your mind, reassurance from the Attorney General that the United States government will protect American Muslims against an anti-Islamic backlash is somehow a greater motivation to terrorists than the Islamophobia rampant in posts like yours. You think Muslims would otherwise have been unaware of the rampant Islamophobia in this country?

We need to actually think about what we're doing. Perhaps we could look to sources like the author of the piece I linked:

Dr Haroro J. Ingram is a research fellow with the Coral Bell School, Australian National University (Canberra). His primary postdoctoral research project analyses the role of propaganda in the strategies of violent non-state political movements with Islamic State and the Afghan Taliban as major case studies. This three-year project is funded by the Australian Research Council under its Discovery Early Career Researcher Award (DECRA). As a research associate with the International Centre for Counter-terrorism (ICCT, The Hague), Ingram is working on the Counter-terrorism Strategic Communications (CTSC) Project team and has authored or co-authored several articles on a range of topics related to how best to understand and counter extremist propaganda.

Ingram’s research draws heavily on primary source materials, most of which is collected during periods of fieldwork in South Asia (Afghanistan) and the Middle East (Iraq). He has interviewed civilians as well as current and former activists and fighters from Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechnya and Syria. His field research has also included interviews with current and former counterinsurgency and counterterrorism operatives. Ingram is currently a research associate with the International Centre for Counter-terrorism (ICCT) in The Hague and a Visiting Fellow with the Naval Postgraduate School's Defense Analysis Department (Monterey, California). Prior to accepting his current role with the Australian National University, Ingram worked in a variety of national security roles.
Or we could satisfy ourselves with the ignorant preconceptions of flatulating buttheads who have no idea what they're talking about. This doesn't strike me as a tough call.

I think your CO.H.DS is showing a little bit

I agree with his "in group" and "out group" analysis. The radicals definitely aim their appeal at those who feel separated, make those part of the in group, and then push the notion that the entire out group is the enemy. As I noted, this is similar to how gangs recruit and thrive.

I get the point about believing Islam is a single entity and a criticism of some of it is a criticism of all if it. I reject that notion. It isn't just me. Al-Sisi gave a very persuasive speech about Musim reformation at the largest Muslim university. The King of Jordan has spoken about this. So have other lesser known clerics whose names I don't recall. My point is that by avoiding the problems within Islam by pussy-footing around the nature of Islamic terrorism isn't working. Turkey is now on the abyss. It used to be an example of what we are looking for in terms of government/religion relationships.

Maybe I am too optimistic. Martin Luther and his reformation of the Christan church is an influence for me. But in the long run, a policy that will always give Islam a pass is, in my view, not going to work, especially when we realize that there is a significant intra-Muslim blood-shed and terror. We need to understand all these forces instead of pretending like they don't exist.
 
That may be the stupidest thing you've ever posted.
Consider having a little empathy for the
disdapointed
It's congenital, terminal and it goes to your head (not just his).

:confused:

belize_95246.jpg
 
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That may be the stupidest thing you've ever posted.

Grin

Here is what you said;

Indeed, the research on which the piece is based tells us that many Muslims do believe "noting that ISIS us [sic] Islamic is a condemnation of all of Islam."
You obviously believe Islam is of a single entity in ways I don't.
 
Grin

Here is what you said;

Indeed, the research on which the piece is based tells us that many Muslims do believe "noting that ISIS us [sic] Islamic is a condemnation of all of Islam."
You obviously believe Islam is of a single entity in ways I don't.
It doesn't matter what I believe, nor does it matter what you believe. What matters is what those who might become radicalized believe.

Unlike you guys, this isn't something I just "know". It's something I have to go out and learn from people who know what they're talking about. It's ridiculous for you to wave that off because "It just isn't me." This isn't about you.
 
It doesn't matter what I believe, nor does it matter what you believe. What matters is what those who might become radicalized believe.

Unlike you guys, this isn't something I just "know". It's something I have to go out and learn from people who know what they're talking about. It's ridiculous for you to wave that off because "It just isn't me." This isn't about you.

Of course it is all about what those who become radicalized might believe

But, if you are going to come here and represent that your link tells us what those who become radicalized are going to believe based upon research of two ISIS magazines, which lie to their readerss anyway, you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. You claim to be an evidence based poster, well, this thread is not evidence of that.

The primary take away from your link, is what I noted a couple of times now, those to whom ISIS aims their propaganda see themselves as ostracized, not only from society, but from mainstream Islam. ISIS exploits that in a number of ways. One of those ways, as the author notes, is to make them believe the rest of us see them and Islam as the enemy. I don't dispute that is what ISIS says. But your link does not establish what ISIS says is accurate. It is an opinion.
 
Of course it is all about what those who become radicalized might believe

But, if you are going to come here and represent that your link tells us what those who become radicalized are going to believe based upon research of two ISIS magazines, which lie to their readerss anyway, you aren't nearly as smart as you think you are. You claim to be an evidence based poster, well, this thread is not evidence of that.

The primary take away from your link, is what I noted a couple of times now, those to whom ISIS aims their propaganda see themselves as ostracized, not only from society, but from mainstream Islam. ISIS exploits that in a number of ways. One of those ways, as the author notes, is to make them believe the rest of us see them and Islam as the enemy. I don't dispute that is what ISIS says. But your link does not establish what ISIS says is accurate. It is an opinion.
Once again, on one hand we have in depth research from someone who plainly knows what he's talking about. On the other hand, we have your ignorant, stubbornly unexplored preconceptions, based on having never cared that you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Once again, on one hand we have in depth research from someone who plainly knows what he's talking about. On the other hand, we have your ignorant, stubbornly unexplored preconceptions, based on having never cared that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Ha

On the one hand we have an academic stating an opinion

On the other hand we have a reader who engages in critical thinking when considering that opinion

And on the foot we have a lemming who thinks the opinion is true because, well, he is the expert.
 
Ha

On the one hand we have an academic stating an opinion

On the other hand we have a reader who engages in critical thinking when considering that opinion

And on the foot we have a lemming who thinks the opinion is true because, well, he is the expert.
Claiming the mantle of "critical thinking" in a post like this is liable to create a wormhole that eats the entire universe. Tread carefully.
 
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