Hard to say. Much trust was lost
Follow the $cience...
- Thread starter mattndallas
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The question looking forward is how can the trust, once squandered, be restored?
It's not limited to the BigPharmaInc/public bureaucracies and agencies, not when internal and external security players may have been complicit in the murder of JFK and other criminal acts to this day.
How does this ever get fixed?
How does the Epstein coverup get fixed?
Who 'forgives" this?
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Off the table? I'm not taking an absolutist position. I'm saying that given the known risks of the covid pandemic, who it was affecting and who it was not, the continued lock downs of schools in the summer and fall of 2020 were unwise.
That is certainly true in hindsight. Further, many looked at the evidence at the time and made the same decision. Those people, though, are still pilloried as anti-science and reckless by the politically motivated or ignorant.
I'm assuming you do not have school-aged children. If you did, I think you'd know that there were clear lessons about policy responses coming out of COVID regarding school lock downs. It's been written about and covered by the media of all political stripes, so no, it's not a right-wing boogeyman (for those who would go there next).
I agree tribalism is a problem, but it is evolutionary. If someone from your tribe told you there was a pack of lions down a path, a million people from another tribe probably couldn't convince you to walk down that path. Tribalism was a safety mechanism. We automatically trusted members of our tribe, especially tribal elders or tribal leaders.
Which creates the problems we now see. Evolutionary I get why someone finds a Twitter account that is part of their tribe and immediately accepts whatever they report as gospel. I'm not sure how we break it.
So therein lies a problem with vaccinations. Even smallpox and polio had detractors and we know how terrible those diseases were. If you have read The Great Influenza, he discusses the battles that raged in the progressive era on things like medical schools and licensing. A lot of Americans didn't want doctors from medical schools, didn't want the type of licensing we had now. There was a real lover affair with the good old country doctor.
I'll admit, reading the book pushed me deeper into a tribe. I believe medicine has greatly improved so much in our lives. My grandparents at 60 were in far worse health than 60-year-olds today (and two had already died). Western medicine has been a huge success.
Yes, drug companies can try to cheat the system, it isn't surprising, we've watched Boeing do just that in a different industry. So that's why we need effective oversight and regulation. But that word, that level "R" word creates all sorts of problems in America. The same people who believe Pfizer is selling drugs that will kill them to make an extra $1.50 will also fight tooth and nail to stop the government from regulating Pfizer. I am not sure where that leaves us.
During most of the arguments during COVID I didn't care if a person said "I don't want to take the vaccine". People can decide for themselves. I was much less supportive of proselytizing the anti-vaxx movement.
As usual, we agree on almost everything here. But I don't think politics were so tribal as to shut down rational discussion of national emergencies just two decades ago (see response to 9/11 for example). Things have changed there.
To the extent that tribalism is a known problem, though, that's all the more reason political leaders shouldn't be playing with it. Dems are guilty of this as much as any party--maybe more so--and deserve blame.
Not every dichotomy produces tribes. I don't see having a rational belief in Western medicine as the most effective medicine on the planet as being part of a tribe. Knowledge vs. ignorant doesn't meet the definition, I don't think. Flat earthers v. spherical earthers isn't a true tribal fight, for example.
Unfortunately, lockdowns and isolation were prominent ways of society for dealing with pandemics for centuries. It didn't work in 2020 and won't work in the future. The high school class of 2020 was literally f***** out of everything.....
I have been trying to find the link I had yesterday, but lost. Basically people that consume more politics have their thinking about politics move from the logic centers of the brain to the emotional.
I think the internet/social media/cable news as entertainment have led to this. Hopefully I will track down the link later.
Maybe there's more guidance on future responses through official channels, but what I find is state guidance on reopening during COVID. Without better decision guidance for local officials I could easily see us following the same path next time.
And for the record, I thought at the time in March/April 2020 nationwide shutdowns were not necessary when many states had very few cases.
Truth. My dad is having is bladder removed in 10 days because of cancer (chemo and radiation didn't work). They live out in the cleveland area and my mom won't stay in the hotel that adjoins the hospital because she believes that hotel buses in illegal immigrants to stay there......
This isn't the article about emotional response, but it is a study on it. People who claim more of an interest in politics have a higher amount of the brain's emotional centers involved in reading a political statement and pushing an agree or disagree button.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Interest in politics modulates neural activity in the amygdala and ventral striatum
Studies on political participation have found that a person's interest in politics contributes to the likelihood that he or she will be involved in the political process. Here, we looked at whether or not interest in politics affects patterns of brain ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I was glad to live in Georgia with a governor who didn’t “behave”
What’s so funny about increased IgG4 antibody levels and cancer?
IgG4 Antibodies Induced by Repeated Vaccination May Generate Immune Tolerance to the SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein
Less than a year after the global emergence of the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, a novel vaccine platform based on mRNA technology was introduced to the market. Globally, around 13.38 billion COVID-19 vaccine doses of diverse platforms have been administered. ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Less than a year after the global emergence of the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, a novel vaccine platform based on mRNA technology was introduced to the market. Globally, around 13.38 billion COVID-19 vaccine doses of diverse platforms have been administered. To date, 72.3% of the total population has been injected at least once with a COVID-19 vaccine. As the immunity provided by these vaccines rapidly wanes, their ability to prevent hospitalization and severe disease in individuals with comorbidities has recently been questioned, and increasing evidence has shown that, as with many other vaccines, they do not produce sterilizing immunity, allowing people to suffer frequent re-infections. Additionally, recent investigations have found abnormally high levels of IgG4 in people who were administered two or more injections of the mRNA vaccines. HIV, Malaria, and Pertussis vaccines have also been reported to induce higher-than-normal IgG4 synthesis. Overall, there are three critical factors determining the class switch to IgG4 antibodies: excessive antigen concentration, repeated vaccination, and the type of vaccine used. It has been suggested that an increase in IgG4 levels could have a protecting role by preventing immune over-activation, similar to that occurring during successful allergen-specific immunotherapy by inhibiting IgE-induced effects. However, emerging evidence suggests that the reported increase in IgG4 levels detected after repeated vaccination with the mRNA vaccines may not be a protective mechanism; rather, it constitutes an immune tolerance mechanism to the spike protein that could promote unopposed SARS-CoV2 infection and replication by suppressing natural antiviral responses. Increased IgG4 synthesis due to repeated mRNA vaccination with high antigen concentrations may also cause autoimmune diseases, and promote cancer growth and autoimmune myocarditis in susceptible individuals.
It's funny that you have people here with decades of experience in anti-infectives drug discovery, taking the time to explain things to you clearly,
yet you run to some dark corner of the internet to link nonsensical rants by half-baked quacks, becuase you googled whatever cockamamie idea you hatched and found the closest link.
Why bother trying to teach you anything? You refuse to listen.
yet you run to some dark corner of the internet to link nonsensical rants by half-baked quacks, becuase you googled whatever cockamamie idea you hatched and found the closest link.
Why bother trying to teach you anything? You refuse to listen.
We don't need shots for every f*cking thing imaginable. We have these things called immune systems built in. Sure there are some things where science is called for COVID WAS NOT ONE OF THEM. It was just a power grabbing, money hungry scandal.
When Jeffrey Sachs was hired to do the investigation into Covid you know what he found??? No transparency. They were hiding sh!t. He said he knew where there was no transparency there was wrong doing. It's been that way with this government for a long time and that has to stop.
Dr Fauxi, I think you already had your go. You better hope nature takes you before everything ends up coming out and you have to run like a hopeless, emaciated street dog with 9 swollen nipples hanging from your belly.
“decades of experience in anti-infective drug discovery”. Really? That’s interesting, and maybe by your statement you are unaware, but mRNA technology had never been used for “vaccine” purposes until 2020. So, how much experience is possible for your so-called experts on the subject? Also, you do realize that the normal testing for such therapeutics takes years, right? And, that these “vaccines” were rolled out in months means we are still learning, you know science. You know, continuing studies.
Which is why I posted the study above, which by the way is from the NIH website, you know The National Institutes of Health. “rants by quacks” Really??
And, “dark corner of the internet” shows your ignorance in a couple of other areas - the information is coming from the top immunology researchers in the world, the opposite of “dark corners”, and your reaction to this very public and respected info is quite telling and disturbing, especially if you’ve had several injections.
I didn’t conduct these studies, I’m not related to those that did, and I definitely don’t work for the NIH. But, I can read and I suggest you do as well.
So sorry about your dad. That has to suck.
My understanding is an advantage of mRNA vaccines is they can be targeted to new viruses quickly building on decades of clinical research and development.
Decades in the Making: mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines | NIH COVID-19 Research
Two U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)–approved mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 have saved millions of lives. These vaccines were developed with NIH support and research on a protein found on SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. Clinical trials for the COVID-19 vaccines in people were...
I read the summary of your article, but would need someone to explain the ramifications of its findings.
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True
Not in its current form, with entry into the cells. This is a first.
I posted several videos above of Dr Reszak, who does exactly that. He’s a blast to listen to, although it’s highly technical he’s able to translate well. But, beware - he lurks in the “dark corners of the internet!” 😂
I hope cool videos are not a new trend in scientific research. I prefer being able to quickly read the conclusions.
But I got what I presume is his point in the first couple minutes: mRNA vaccines may enable/facilitate tumor growth. Good to know, let's find out the risk profile for the future. That is consistent with medical progress over the ages.
you are just flat-out wrong
The first experimental mRNA vaccines were made in the 1990s, though they did not progress beyond animal testing
The first mRNA vaccines for human use were developed against the deadly Ebola virus in the early 2000s, but after an initial scare Ebola infection never reached more than a regional scale had no commercial development potential in the U.S.A. You need infected patients to run phase II and beyond clinical trials.
Same thing when mRNA vaccines were developed for SARS1 and for MERS. They advanced into clinical trials for humans, but the epidemics died out before trials could be completed.
The run-up to producing the SARS1 and MERS mRNA vaccines solved the problem of stabilizing mRNA for vaccine use. It was then plug-n-play.
When the sequence of the SARS2 spike protein was published in January 2020, it was immediately known what snippets of mRNA might be needed to put in a vaccine. This would be the sole active ingredient, added to the lipids, salts, and sugar, parts THAT WERE ALREADY WORKED OUT.
The only formulation issue was to show that the SARS2 mRNA had roughly the same stability as all of the other mRNA pieces that had been used before. It does!
Making RNA vaccines going forward is somewhat like having a fleet of rental cars. They will work with any "driver" aka snippet of mRNA.
I have no idea what all of this means, I just know I'm harder than chinese algebra right now.
Or trying to figure out and help your elementary school kid multiplication four different ways with no examples to reference.
Exactly. I have zero math brain. Literally doesn't exist. The only thing I know how to do with a calculator is spell out "boobs" on an upside down calculator.
Yep, can do boobs.
We also did hell and lol.
There's a reason I only took three years of math in high school.
I didn't mean to imply "cool" as a descriptor for the videos that this Dr does. He only reviews current studies and translates them. You'll find quickly if you listen that he doesn't have an agenda, other than helping - doctors and patients. He is very humble and works from an inside perspective with relation to the vaccine technology, not outside. Meaning, he doesn't take a side, he only reviews and researches within the genre. He does believe the current versions need to be tweaked based on the current issues arising.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines
I'm not here to argue with you. The current Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are Messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines, the vaccine used for Ebola that you refer to is a Viral Vector vaccine, much different than mRNA.
Understanding Six Types of Vaccine Technologies | Pfizer
Ever since the first vaccine was developed in 1796 to treat smallpox,1 several different methods have been created to develop successful vaccines. Today, those methods, known as vaccine technologies, are more advanced and use the latest technology to help protect the world from preventable...
www.pfizer.com
