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First lawsuit against Biden’s college loan forgiveness program for deadbeats.

BradStevens said:
Many factors. Just to name a few: Rise in # of admins with high salaries. Cut back in state funding. Viewing out of state students as profit sources. Fed backed cheap money. Understanding that more and more people feel the college degree is necessary for a job.
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And students demand more. Virtually no student at all wants to live in a dorm, they want apartment-style living. Providing those costs universities more money. IU provides far more in events and activities than it did back in my student days, and of course that all costs more. And technology has a cost. It costs more to equip everyone with a computer than a typewriter and/or a sliderule.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
Well, we're not talking about people "deciding" they shouldn't repay a loan. We're talking about people taking advantage of a benefit being offered them. And whether or not that is reasonable, it's not a reasonable reason to call them a "deadbeat."

I work my ass off, Aloha. If I have the opportunity to take advantage of this (which again, will do little for me, so I don't care), that doesn't suddenly turn me into a deadbeat. I will still remain someone who works his ass off, just with slightly less debt.
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Stop drinking so much and you wouldn't have to work so hard.

Then again, I know a lot of alcoholics who are work addicts, too - they need to be able to support their habit.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
And students demand more. Virtually no student at all wants to live in a dorm, they want apartment-style living. Providing those costs universities more money. IU provides far more in events and activities than it did back in my student days, and of course that all costs more. And technology has a cost. It costs more to equip everyone with a computer than a typewriter and/or a sliderule.
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Don’t forget parents demanding more for their kids. The rich Chicagoland parents paying out of state tuition get their kids apartment style dorms. The kid on a Pell grant from Markle pays for it too.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
And students demand more. Virtually no student at all wants to live in a dorm, they want apartment-style living. Providing those costs universities more money. IU provides far more in events and activities than it did back in my student days, and of course that all costs more. And technology has a cost. It costs more to equip everyone with a computer than a typewriter and/or a sliderule.
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Do they also demand their loans be forgiven?
 
Marvin the Martian said:
And students demand more. Virtually no student at all wants to live in a dorm, they want apartment-style living. Providing those costs universities more money. IU provides far more in events and activities than it did back in my student days, and of course that all costs more. And technology has a cost. It costs more to equip everyone with a computer than a typewriter and/or a sliderule.
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I find student demands for higher standard of living ridiculous and unncecessary. As for the computers, I'm not sure how much that drives the increase in college tuition.

As for the overall increase in college tuition--why would it cost so much more nowadays to teach the humanities or anything in the COAS at IU? It shouldn't; something is wrong.
 
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Cortez88 said:
Don’t forget parents demanding more for their kids. The rich Chicagoland parents paying out of state tuition get their kids apartment style dorms. The kid on a Pell grant from Markle pays for it too.
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But why would that drive up tuition?
 
CO. Hoosier said:
Ha. I am serious. NPR has become mostly worthless with its politics. It seems like it’s controlled by young college graduates who are steeped in academic wokeness.
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Hmm, isn't "It seems like it’s controlled by young college graduates who are steeped in academic wokeness" an ad hominem? You aren't attacking what they say, you attack them for being "woke". Hmmm, hypocritical much?
 
Have a friend who once recruited students for a trade school. Almost all the students took out loans to pay for this post educational high school schooling. My friend is one of the most likable people you will ever meet. The kind of guy whom you like and trust at first sight. He was the perfect recruiter.

Unfortunately the school closed its doors eight years ago leaving the students with unpaid loans, and what my friend describes as a lousy education.

My friend is now the head recruiter for a major airline heading a department which recruits and trains all personnel with the exception of pilots. As he says, "Real jobs and excellent training".

Interestingly, my friend's advice to his own children has been to take a job after high school and then tackle college when your ready. Both of his kids are smart and extremely articulate. As you might expect, when it comes to job interviews they are as my friend describes it, "Rock stars". The kids are now 32 and 29 years of age, One is the director of a mid sized city waterworks department without having earned a chemical engineering degree. The other is a sales manager for one of Indianapolis's largest car dealers. Neither has a college loan to repay.

The deadbeat in this story maybe my friend who has kids of which to be proud without ever having to pay for their education.
 
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BradStevens said:
I find student demands for higher standard of living ridiculous and unncecessary. As for the computers, I'm not sure how much that drives the increase in college tuition.

As for the overall increase in college tuition--why would it cost so much more nowadays to teach the humanities or anything in the COAS at IU? It shouldn't; something is wrong.
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I would doubt universities are paying for the student's computers. I wonder if computer labs are still as prevalent now that everyone likely has a laptop.

Our high school requires us to buy our kids macbooks when they hit 9th grade. Doesn't come out of the school budget or anything.

IU has been in a building frenzy around campus it seems. Between that and possibly raising salaries, that is probably the culprits for rising tuition.
 
Cortez88 said:
Don’t forget parents demanding more for their kids. The rich Chicagoland parents paying out of state tuition get their kids apartment style dorms. The kid on a Pell grant from Markle pays for it too.
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There is a free market problem, we have to keep up with the Joneses. I have seen it back when I worked in conventions. Some client would attend a convention and see something cool, so their convention just has to have it. But of course it wasn't budgeted, but they have to have it. Then when the bill comes, "oh my God, why is my bill so high". Well, here's our email exchange where we explained we hadn't budgeted for neither a sundae buffet nor a drone laser show and you said you didn't care, you had to have them.

Colleges have experienced that. I don't disagree there are too many administrators. But kids are deciding to go to college based on X Y and Z, and if your college offers a good education but not X, they will go to a college that has X.

There is another factor. Full-ride scholarships cost those who don't get them a lot. Yes, the government picks up need based students. But the 1600 SAT, 4.2 GPA chess grand master whose already published a math therom gets a full ride, that comes out of general revenue from the university. Everyone else is paying for them to attend. It isn't a bad thing, I'm jus saying the more of those students a university attracts with free tuition, room, books, is money coming from all the other students.
 
Marvin the Martian said:
Hmm, isn't "It seems like it’s controlled by young college graduates who are steeped in academic wokeness" an ad hominem? You aren't attacking what they say, you attack them for being "woke". Hmmm, hypocritical much?
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Fair point. I indeed challenged NPR for its seemingly insatiable appetite to find racism. I’ve similarly attacked academia. And yes, I have posted often very seriously about this. People don’t engage, they would rather talk in white supremacy platitudes. That’s NPR. I offered an explanation with my academia reference.
 
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Marvin the Martian said:
There is another factor. Full-ride scholarships cost those who don't get them a lot. Yes, the government picks up need based students. But the 1600 SAT, 4.2 GPA chess grand master whose already published a math therom gets a full ride, that comes out of general revenue from the university. Everyone else is paying for them to attend. It isn't a bad thing, I'm jus saying the more of those students a university attracts with free tuition, room, books, is money coming from all the other students.
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That's what colleges should be giving full-ride scholarships for: scholars.
 
Cortez88 said:
Maybe not tuition per se but room and board is a required cost.
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But you have schools like ND, that still has the same old dorms, I think, charging $60K a year in tuition. And then the ridiculous $17K in room and board. And they have an $18 billion endowment.

Here's one solution: come up with a formula for endowment size v. tuition and start taxing those endowments if you have a certain amount and still charge ridiculous tuition amounts.
 
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BradStevens said:
That's what colleges should be giving full-ride scholarships for: scholars.
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I don't disagree, I am just saying people who aren't are paying for that through their tuition and other fees. So that builds cost right there.

Overall I found this list online:

...growing demand, rising financial aid, lower state funding, the exploding cost of administrators, bloated student amenities packages.​

That all seems pretty reasonable. The cliff is coming though, in 2025 there won't be nearly enough students. The competition will be extreme. It might raise costs, as students demand more. It might lower cost as there won't be the need to expand that colleges have had.

Since I came to IU as a student, all buildings are now air-conditioned. There are many more buildings. There are many more deans. There is much more technology. It all adds up.

And the problem is growing. I was speaking with someone the other night who said they got their masters from a commuter school outside Chicago. She said that the school is now building dorms. IUPUI has been building student housing. Commuter schools should be lower-cost alternatives to traditional, but it seems students want more, not less.

It does surprise me, I would think bare bones would attract people. But you are only 20 once, I also get kids want the full experience and the college experience at an IU is quite different than living at home, working and attending WGU.
 
BradStevens said:
So it appears the Trump tax cuts actually started taxing some endowment gains. And of course, now those endowments are pushing back and trying to get those taxes eliminated:

theintercept.com

Ivy League Universities Push for Special Tax Cut

Harvard and other elite universities are lobbying Congress for a tax cut on endowment investment returns.
theintercept.com theintercept.com
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Yeah that’s bullshit. I’m with you
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
Ha. I am serious. NPR has become mostly worthless with its politics. It seems like it’s controlled by young college graduates who are steeped in academic wokeness.
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But they’re right in the midst of the fall fund drive. All I hear while I’m shaving and brushing my teeth is: “What a great station! We’re (WVXU and NPR) so great and we’re so balanced!”

Bull hockey.
 
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Univee2 said:
But they’re right in the midst of the fall fund drive. All I hear while I’m shaving and brushing my teeth is: “What a great station! We’re (WVXU and NPR) so great and we’re so balanced!”

Bull hockey.
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I gave them money and I still have to listen to that shit.
 
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UncleMark said:
I gave them money and I still have to listen to that shit.
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Can’t even turn over to WGUC, the great classical music NPR station, as they are also - surprise, surprise - doing the same gig.

If you give money you should then have the technical ability to block all the rest of the fund drive. I think we should all create an app to make that happen. $50,000,000 divided by 20 is $2.5 million apiece if my IU math is correct.
 
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Univee2 said:
Can’t even turn over to WGUC, the great classical music NPR station, as they are also - surprise, surprise - doing the same gig.

If you give money you should then have the technical ability to block all the rest of the fund drive. I think we should all create an app to make that happen. $50,000,000 divided by 20 is $2.5 million apiece if my IU math is correct.
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You'll find better news and music on Sirius for about the same amount as you might pledge to your NPR station.
 
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BradStevens said:
You'll find better news and music on Sirius for about the same amount as you might pledge to your NPR station.
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Oh, I know. I don’t pledge anything to NPR. Only listen to NPR in the AM while doing the morning routine, on the old clock radio in the bathroom.
 
DANC said:
His own Fang Fang.

What is it with Democrats and Chinese whores?
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She was passing him oppo research on Trump. Be interesting how much of that Biden used. China interfering with the election...perhaps we can spend the next 2 years investigating Joe and his campaign for collusion.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
Again, I’ll make no apologies for that. I had college loans. I paid them off. I had numerous car loans. I paid them off. I’ve bought five houses so far. I paid off every mortgage, including the one I had to pay $22,000 to sell because it didn’t appreciate. I didn’t whine. I entered into every loan freely, and so did every one of these people whining about having to pay back their college loans. I think deadbeat is an accurate description.

Maybe my opinion is informed by my dirt poor background, but I’m sticking with it.
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When did you go to college and how much were your loans? No offense, but you probably paid pennies compared to what kids today are paying.
 
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IU_Hickory said:
Aren't they required to pay their employees regardless?

Taxpayers paying their employees for them is still a handout
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The program was for employers to not lay off employees and keep paying them through the shut down and various restrictions.
 
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HoosierJimbo89 said:
Still government money, not money from business profits. The "handouts" don't magically become "not handouts" because they go to a business.
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Okay so the businesses could have laid off the employees and the government could have paid their salaries instead of giving businesses PPP loans to pay the salaries.
 
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stollcpa said:
Okay so the businesses could have laid off the employees and the government could have paid their salaries instead of giving businesses PPP loans to pay the salaries.
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Why would the business have to lay off the employees if the government paid their salary? There is no difference between management or the government giving employees government money. PPP loans are forgiven debt.
 
HoosierJimbo89 said:
Why would the business have to lay off the employees if the government paid their salary? There is no difference between management or the government giving employees government money. PPP loans are forgiven debt.
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You’re not understanding. I am obviously doing a poor job explaining.
 
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