Fauci Stumped....

[NPT]

And we're suppose to follow the science?......

Fauci Stumped on Child-Masking Evidence in Testimony, Admitted Lack of Scientific Basis for Six-Foot Distancing | National Review

‘It sort of just appeared. I don’t recall, like, a discussion of whether it should be 5 or 6 or whatever.’

www.nationalreview.com

 

[outside shooter]

Fauci not remembering where the guideline came from doesn't mean that the guideline was made up. Several older studies even back to the late 1800s made similar recommendations.

The most relevant study though is perhaps one analyzing spread of SARS 1 some 20 years ago on two different planes with infected passengers.

One of the conclusions was that transmission was not seen between fliers seated 3 or more rows apart, about 2.3 meters, or about 7 ft. Transmission was, on the other hand, likely to occur 2 rows or less apart, 1.6 meters, about 5 feet.

How 5 ft became 6 ft is not quite clear, but likely 1.6 meters was rounded up to 2 meters, which is about 6 ft. Or since 2.3 m was safe and 1.6 m was not, perhaps the midpoint was selected as a logical cutoff.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa031349

 

[IU_Hickory]

The fact that states with masked mandates showed less spread of covid vs those without mandates proved that masks helped.

But because it was politicized, we have to keep debating it anyway

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Fauci not remembering where the guideline came from doesn't mean that the guideline was made up. Several older studies even back to the late 1800s made similar recommendations.

The most relevant study though is perhaps one analyzing spread of SARS 1 some 20 years ago on two different planes with infected passengers.

One of the conclusions was that transmission was not seen between fliers seated 3 or more rows apart, about 2.3 meters, or about 7 ft. Transmission was, on the other hand, likely to occur 2 rows or less apart, 1.6 meters, about 5 feet.

How 5 ft became 6 ft is not quite clear, but likely 1.6 meters was rounded up to 2 meters, which is about 6 ft. Or since 2.3 m was safe and 1.6 m was not, perhaps the midpoint was selected as a logical cutoff.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa031349

https://www.amazon.com/Diary-Psychosis-Public-Health-Disgraced/dp/B0CNL3H5RP

 

[hookyIU1990]

Fauci not remembering where the guideline came from doesn't mean that the guideline was made up. Several older studies even back to the late 1800s made similar recommendations.

The most relevant study though is perhaps one analyzing spread of SARS 1 some 20 years ago on two different planes with infected passengers.

One of the conclusions was that transmission was not seen between fliers seated 3 or more rows apart, about 2.3 meters, or about 7 ft. Transmission was, on the other hand, likely to occur 2 rows or less apart, 1.6 meters, about 5 feet.

How 5 ft became 6 ft is not quite clear, but likely 1.6 meters was rounded up to 2 meters, which is about 6 ft. Or since 2.3 m was safe and 1.6 m was not, perhaps the midpoint was selected as a logical cutoff.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa031349

Upon further questioning, Fauci said six feet was “an empiric decision that wasn’t based on data or even data that could be accomplished.”

 

[NPT]

The fact that states with masked mandates showed less spread of covid vs those without mandates proved that masks helped.

But because it was politicized, we have to keep debating it anyway

Well, to me it's just common sense that mask would help a certain amount. What I've always objected to is them acting as though everything was based on science. I have no doubt that being 6 feel away from someone is better than being 3 feet away and that 12 feet would probably be better than 6 feet. But don't tell me that it's based on science....

 

[T.M.P.]

I have no doubt that being 6 feel away from someone is better than being 3 feet away and that 12 feet would probably be better than 6 feet. But don't tell me that it's based on science....

Then what's it based on? If you have no doubt then you applied some type of knowledge that you learned from somewhere.. and it was most likely science. Maybe not a study particular to this virus ... but still.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Well, to me it's just common sense that mask would help a certain amount. What I've always objected to is them acting as though everything was based on science. I have no doubt that being 6 feel away from someone is better than being 3 feet away and that 12 feet would probably be better than 6 feet. But don't tell me that it's based on science....

It is based on science. People have done studies testing how far particulates travel in the air. OS referenced one of them. That's science.

 

[OpenWheels]

Then what's it based on? If you have no doubt then you applied some type of knowledge that you learned from somewhere.. and it was most likely science. Maybe not a study particular to this virus ... but still.

Experience.

Knowing I can't throw a baseball 300 feet without bouncing it isn't based on Isaac Newton's numbers. I'd have the same result without the science. I think everyone who has felt spray drops from someone's sneeze, instinctively understands to be further away, not because of 'particulate velocity from a sneeze' studies.

Of course there's a ton of science on disease prevention. Then go tell Fauci and others who said some recommendations were just to be seen as doing something, not that they thought they were enough or would do much.
I read a ton of stuff that said what counted was not masks or even distance, but how long you were in a room and how long the sick person(s) was there and thus how heavy your viral dose was from the air. Because these particulates were so small as to be hard to filter and basically have a long hang time. And masks dont affect that much. And 'science' only discussed that later, or it came out later.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

Experience.

Knowing I can't throw a baseball 300 feet without bouncing it isn't based on Isaac Newton's numbers. I'd have the same result without the science. I think everyone who has felt spray drops from someone's sneeze, instinctively understands to be further away, not because of 'particulate velocity from a sneeze' studies.

Of course there's a ton of science on disease prevention. Then go tell Fauci and others who said some recommendations were just to be seen as doing something, not that they thought they were enough or would do much.
I read a ton of stuff that said what counted was not masks or even distance, but how long you were in a room and how long the sick person(s) was there and thus how heavy your viral dose was from the air. Because these particulates were so small as to be hard to filter and basically have a long hang time. And masks dont affect that much. And 'science' only discussed that later, or it came out later.

IANAS but sometime there very very early, they could have put a Covid positive person, in a room, with and without a mask, and taken air samples, from different distances and length of time.
Gave the samples to Abby from NCIS and had actual results to share. Probably could have been done in Jan/ Feb of the first year. Maybe even they did, but the results didn’t fit the predetermined results of the 2020 election. Maybe.
This post was based on election science.

 

[NPT]

Then what's it based on? If you have no doubt then you applied some type of knowledge that you learned from somewhere.. and it was most likely science. Maybe not a study particular to this virus ... but still.

Just common sense .... I know things get more diluted as they move away from the source.

 

[NPT]

It is based on science. People have done studies testing how far particulates travel in the air. OS referenced one of them. That's science.

Of course, I am sure that there have been studies but apparently Fauci didn't know it so why is he giving us "scientific" advice when he doesn't know of any. I don't need any kind of study to know that the load would be less 20 feet away than it would be 3 feet away. It's like pouring a gallon of gasoline in a bucket holding 5 gallons of water vs. pouring it in a bathtub full of water. And I don't think it would be a difficult study to do but apparently Fauci does.

Fauci.....
"You know, I don’t recall. It sort of just appeared. I don’t recall, like, a discussion of whether it should be 5 or 6 or whatever,” Fauci testified toward the end of day two.

“Did you see any studies that supported 6 feet?” a subcommittee staffer followed up.

“I was not aware of studies that — in fact, that would be a very difficult study to do,” Fauci conceded.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Of course, I am sure that there have been studies but apparently Fauci didn't know it so why is he giving us "scientific" advice when he doesn't know of any. I don't need any kind of study to know that the load would be less 20 feet away than it would be 3 feet away. It's like pouring a gallon of gasoline in a bucket holding 5 gallons of water vs. pouring it in a bathtub full of water. And I don't think it would be a difficult study to do but apparently Fauci does.

Fauci.....
"You know, I don’t recall. It sort of just appeared. I don’t recall, like, a discussion of whether it should be 5 or 6 or whatever,” Fauci testified toward the end of day two.

“Did you see any studies that supported 6 feet?” a subcommittee staffer followed up.

“I was not aware of studies that — in fact, that would be a very difficult study to do,” Fauci conceded.

I don't know about Fauci's comments. I'm only responding to this idea that it's somehow not based in science because of it. It's very much based in science. Obviously, common sense arrives at the same answer, but scientists don't settle for common sense. They test. Some things are hard to test, and the results aren't perfect, but still, the results are results of scientific inquiry, not mere common sense.

It's important not to lose the distinction between the two. Substituting common sense for science might be harmless if the question is "Is it safer to be further away from a sick person?" It becomes far more dangerous when the question is, say, "Are vaccines safe?" Common sense can give you any number of answers to that question, depending on your own personal biases and assumptions. But science can give us the answer that is accurate.

 

[outside shooter]

...don't tell me that it's based on science....

So, a research paper in the New England Journal of Medicine is not science? Interesting take.

 

[NPT]

So, a research paper in the New England Journal of Medicine is not science? Interesting take.

You're kind of dense.... I never said that.... I said Fauci was out there giving advice when he didn't know of any science to back what he saying.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

The fact that states with masked mandates showed less spread of covid vs those without mandates proved that masks helped.

But because it was politicized, we have to keep debating it anyway

Let’s compare CA and GA 4 years after the fact and look at hospitalization rate, death rate, etc…. I don’t know the numbers but I sure am hell glad I lived in GA with a governor who allowed adults to decide for themselves what risk they were willing to take.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Let’s compare CA and GA 4 years after the fact and look at hospitalization rate, death rate, etc…. I don’t know the numbers but I sure am hell glad I lived in GA with a governor who allowed adults to decide for themselves what risk they were willing to take.

Kemp for Prez. Y’all got a good one down there. Fighting the good fight the beat back the disease of Atlanta politics. Hope that he and Trump can make amends.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Kemp for Prez. Y’all got a good one down there. Fighting the good fight the beat back the disease of Atlanta politics. Hope that he and Trump can make amends.

Kemp would have to lick his balls first. Don’t see that happening

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Let’s compare CA and GA 4 years after the fact and look at hospitalization rate, death rate, etc…. I don’t know the numbers but I sure am hell glad I lived in GA with a governor who allowed adults to decide for themselves what risk they were willing to take.

The death rate in GA was higher that CA. So, yay?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Everything Fauci said was tainted by his need to hide the “gain of function” research he was participating in with the ChiComs.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

The death rate in GA was higher that CA. So, yay?

47.1 to 37.8. That’s 10 per capita that needed purged anyhow 😂😂

 

[IU_Hickory]

Well, to me it's just common sense that mask would help a certain amount. What I've always objected to is them acting as though everything was based on science. I have no doubt that being 6 feel away from someone is better than being 3 feet away and that 12 feet would probably be better than 6 feet. But don't tell me that it's based on science....

Splitting hairs much?

Sometimes science and common sense overlap...although common sense isn't as common as we would hope

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

47.1 to 37.8. That’s 10 per capita that needed purged anyhow 😂😂

Math… argh

So more people were counted as having died in Cali, right?

 

[hookyIU1990]

Everything Fauci said was tainted by his need to hide the “gain of function” research he was participating in with the ChiComs.

He lied from the very beginning about masks. How anyone would believe anything he says is beyond me.

 

[snarlcakes]

The death rate in GA was higher that CA. So, yay?

The death rate was higher in nursing homes than preschools. So, yay?

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

IANAS but sometime there very very early, they could have put a Covid positive person, in a room, with and without a mask, and taken air samples, from different distances and length of time.
Gave the samples to Abby from NCIS and had actual results to share. Probably could have been done in Jan/ Feb of the first year. Maybe even they did, but the results didn’t fit the predetermined results of the 2020 election. Maybe.
This post was based on election science.

This post was based on you having zero intelligence

 

[snarlcakes]

Well, to me it's just common sense that mask would help a certain amount. What I've always objected to is them acting as though everything was based on science. I have no doubt that being 6 feel away from someone is better than being 3 feet away and that 12 feet would probably be better than 6 feet. But don't tell me that it's based on science....

Does it matter if you place a baby in 3 feet of water or 6 feet? They’re still drowning. Fauci would have stated his evidence if he had any. He pulled it out his ass.

Do you really think wearing a mask as you walked through the restaurant, but it was ok to take it off when you sat down was based on science?

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Does it matter if you place a baby in 3 feet of water or 6 feet? They’re still drowning. Fauci would have stated his evidence if he had any. He pulled it out his ass.

Do you really think wearing a mask as you walked through the restaurant, but it was ok to take it off when you sat down was based on science?

I’m not claiming to be any smarter than anyone because I’m a doctor, but the dumb shit that had no basis in common sense let alone science drove me f—-ing crazy

 

[snarlcakes]

The most relevant study though is perhaps one analyzing spread of SARS 1 some 20 years ago on two different planes with infected passengers.

One of the conclusions was that transmission was not seen between fliers seated 3 or more rows apart, about 2.3 meters, or about 7 ft. Transmission was, on the other hand, likely to occur 2 rows or less apart, 1.6 meters, about 5 feet.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa031349

Huh? Flight 2 direct quote, “It is notable that 56 percent of the passengers who became infected were not seated in the same row as the index patient or in the three rows in front of him.”

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Of course, I am sure that there have been studies but apparently Fauci didn't know it so why is he giving us "scientific" advice when he doesn't know of any. I don't need any kind of study to know that the load would be less 20 feet away than it would be 3 feet away. It's like pouring a gallon of gasoline in a bucket holding 5 gallons of water vs. pouring it in a bathtub full of water. And I don't think it would be a difficult study to do but apparently Fauci does.

Fauci.....
"You know, I don’t recall. It sort of just appeared. I don’t recall, like, a discussion of whether it should be 5 or 6 or whatever,” Fauci testified toward the end of day two.

“Did you see any studies that supported 6 feet?” a subcommittee staffer followed up.

“I was not aware of studies that — in fact, that would be a very difficult study to do,” Fauci conceded.

I don't know about Fauci's comments. I'm only responding to this idea that it's somehow not based in science because of it. It's very much based in science. Obviously, common sense arrives at the same answer, but scientists don't settle for common sense. They test. Some things are hard to test, and the results aren't perfect, but still, the results are results of scientific inquiry, not mere common sense.

It's important not to lose the distinction between the two. Substituting common sense for science might be harmless if the question is "Is it safer to be further away from a sick person?" It becomes far more dangerous when the question is, say, "Are vaccines safe?" Common sense can give you any number of answers to that question, depending on your own personal biases and assumptions. But science can give us the answer that is accurate.

I’m siding w Goat here. I have zero confidence in Fauci now, but the decisions on distancing were based on common sense and scientific analyses of how far viruses travelled after being expelled. My guess is Fauci, who is old af and retired, probably didn’t prepare much for this testimony. It’s a bad look for a guy that fell out of favor a while ago.

More importantly, people should really be criticizing and pushing Fauci’s lack of care for youth. This disease was always one that preyed on adults, in particular, elderly adults and those with comorbidities. There are lots of kids that got screwed up by COVID ( increase in suicide, kids not able to get help and resources they need, etc.).

That’s where he failed. States and even school districts were wildly different in their approach.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

I’m siding w Goat here. I have zero confidence in Fauci now, but the decisions on distancing were based on common sense and scientific analyses of how far viruses travelled after being expelled. My guess is Fauci, who is old af and retired, probably didn’t prepare much for this testimony. It’s a bad look for a guy that fell out of favor a while ago.

More importantly, people should really be criticizing and pushing Fauci’s lack of care for youth. This disease was always one that preyed on adults, in particular, elderly adults and those with comorbidities. There are lots of kids that got screwed up by COVID ( increase in suicide, kids not able to get help and resources they need, etc.).

That’s where he failed. States and even school districts were wildly different in their approach.

As a parent who had a kid graduate high school in 2020 and begin his college career that fall…. ‘20-‘21 in particular sucked. At least Clemson allowed in person classes in the spring semester. But education suffered big time

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

As a parent who had a kid graduate high school in 2020 and begin his college career that fall…. ‘20-‘21 in particular sucked. At least Clemson allowed in person classes in the spring semester. But education suffered big time

If you think that’s bad, imagine having kids in daycare which was first shut down, then had ludicrous masking, quarantine and testing policies for little kids.

 

[NPT]

I’m siding w Goat here. I have zero confidence in Fauci now, but the decisions on distancing were based on common sense and scientific analyses of how far viruses travelled after being expelled.

I don't think goat and I are on opposite sides because I agreed with him that there are studies out there that support distancing, but Fauci pulled his recommendation out of his butt and that's all I was saying. He admitted that he didn't know of any studies. So what else did he pulled out of his butt. Like you said, it's just common sense that distancing would help.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

If you think that’s bad, imagine having kids in daycare which was first shut down, then had ludicrous masking, quarantine and testing policies for little kids.

My daughter, who was a senior at Clemson that year, took a semester off because she was pissed at the virtual classes. She worked at a daycare and we heard all the stories of trying to make 2 year olds wear masks 😂😂

 

[mcmurtry66]

If you think that’s bad, imagine having kids in daycare which was first shut down, then had ludicrous masking, quarantine and testing policies for little kids.

A cult of insane people. Thank god my minion missed that

 

[UncleMark]

My daughter, who was a senior at Clemson that year, took a semester off because she was pissed at the virtual classes. She worked at a daycare and we heard all the stories of trying to make 2 year olds wear masks 😂😂

I said at the time that the attempt to continue schooling was nonsense and that they should have just kept everything shut down for as long as it took.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I said at the time that the attempt to continue schooling was nonsense and that they should have just kept everything shut down for as long as it took.

Nice of you to admit you thoughts were flawed

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I said at the time that the attempt to continue schooling was nonsense and that they should have just kept everything shut down for as long as it took.

That was the wrong prescription. We made a ton of mistakes. Masks, distancing, vaccines and protecting the vulnerable weren't mistakes, but acting like everyone was equally at risk and shutting down the schools and economy were big mistakes.

 

[UncleMark]

Nice of you to admit you thoughts were flawed

I'm not sure they were. The fall of 2020 was chaos. There was no learning going on, and kids were being put through all kids of dumb shit with the masking and distancing and testing and quarantining and virtual idiocy. Schools should have just stayed shut down until early 2021 when the vaccines became available for the most vulnerable and then lifted the restrictions and let the kids go back to "normal" schooling.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

I'm not sure they were. The fall of 2020 was chaos. There was no learning going on, and kids were being put through all kids of dumb shit with the masking and distancing and testing and quarantining and virtual idiocy. Schools should have just stayed shut down until early 2021 when the vaccines became available for the most vulnerable and then lifted the restrictions and let the kids go back to "normal" schooling.

No school may have resulted in mass parental suicides