DraftExpress.com recommends that Troy return for senior season

[IU Scott]

Many fans, especially the most devoted ones, do care about stuff like this, since it often impacts the team. More casual fans aren't concerned, that's true. And elite programs are talented all the way to the end of the bench.

Here are some of the roster from these teams and tell me how great they are. Maybe I should check but these players never played and none of them were ll Americans but to you all elite programs have a roster of great plaers.
UK
Johnny David
EJ Floreal
Dillion Pullian
Tai Wynard

UNC
Kanler Coker
Kenny Williams
Stilman White
Justin Coleman
Luke Maye
Toby Egbuna
Spencer Dalton

Kansas
Lagearld Vick
Evan Manning
Tyler Self
Clay Young
Dwight Coleby

Duke
Antonio Vrankovic
Sean Obi
Nick Pagua
Justin Robinson
Brennan Besser.

 

[IU Scott]

He was already seeing the floor. He earned a spot by contributing. Sorry if you consider that meaningless. And he left so he could go somewhere and hopefully earn a scholarship. In spite of his solid play, that wasn't going to be possible at IU.

Like I said when Jones and Newkirk and Green signed he saw the writing on the wall that he would not ever see much time.

 

[TheSpa]

Here are some of the roster from these teams and tell me how great they are. Maybe I should check but these players never played and none of them were ll Americans but to you all elite programs have a roster of great plaers.
UK
Johnny David
EJ Floreal
Dillion Pullian
Tai Wynard

UNC
Kanler Coker
Kenny Williams
Stilman White
Justin Coleman
Luke Maye
Toby Egbuna
Spencer Dalton

Kansas
Lagearld Vick
Evan Manning
Tyler Self
Clay Young
Dwight Coleby

Duke
Antonio Vrankovic
Sean Obi
Nick Pagua
Justin Robinson
Brennan Besser.

Why are you comparing IUs rosters to elite schools? It doesn't help your argument.

 

[IU Scott]

Why are you comparing IUs rosters to elite schools? It doesn't help your argument.

You just don't get what this conversation started out being. It is to show that teams don't have a roster full of all Americans at the end of the bench. You also stated that elite programs do have great players through their whole bench and I showed you that is not the case. Just admit you were wrong and I showed you with facts to back it up.

 

[TheSpa]

You just don't get what this conversation started out being. It is to show that teams don't have a roster full of all Americans at the end of the bench. You also stated that elite programs do have great players through their whole bench and I showed you that is not the case. Just admit you were wrong and I showed you with facts to back it up.

You fail to understand why the end of IUs bench was so critical, even as you try to divert the conversation away to other programs. Your "facts" haven't helped your arguments.

 

[IU Scott]

You fail to understand why the end of IUs bench was so critical, even as you try to divert the conversation away to other programs. Your "facts" haven't helped your arguments.

Whatever you just don't understand how college basketball works so I am done with you

 

[Shirtsandskins]

Whatever you just don't understand how college basketball works so I am done with you

I think the point is that IUs end of the bench is more important than it is at the elite schools...if you don't have elite talent at they front, then you'd better have good depth

 

[TheSpa]

Whatever you just don't understand how college basketball works so I am done with you

You've failed to understand how the end of IUs bench helped them. I was just trying to explain something that is beyond your knowledge base as a casual fan.

 

[iu60]

I understand that part. My question is if the kid goes on scholarship does IU's policy mandate that to be a 4 year commitment or do they still allow a 1 year scholarship? As I read the policy it seems once a kid is on scholarship only the kid can revoke that scholarship, not the coach, all things being equal.

Doesn't the athlete's BOR refer to a "recruited" player? If a walk on is given a scholarship for one year, he was still not a recruited player. It is a bonus for hard work.

 

[HouseDivided2014]

Doesn't the athlete's BOR refer to a "recruited" player? If a walk on is given a scholarship for one year, he was still not a recruited player. It is a bonus for hard work.

I'm not sure if it states recruited player or not. The only reference I saw was to four year scholarship. That's what led to my line of questioning; whether the BOR distinguishes between a yearly scholly and a four year scholly, or as you pointed out, a recruited vs non-recruited player. My answer to that is I don't know.

 

[The Vid]

Here are some of the roster from these teams and tell me how great they are. Maybe I should check but these players never played and none of them were ll Americans but to you all elite programs have a roster of great plaers.
UK
Johnny David
EJ Floreal
Dillion Pullian
Tai Wynard

UNC
Kanler Coker
Kenny Williams
Stilman White
Justin Coleman
Luke Maye
Toby Egbuna
Spencer Dalton

Kansas
Lagearld Vick
Evan Manning
Tyler Self
Clay Young
Dwight Coleby

Duke
Antonio Vrankovic
Sean Obi
Nick Pagua
Justin Robinson
Brennan Besser.

Wow what a waste of time

 

[IU Scott]

You've failed to understand how the end of IUs bench helped them. I was just trying to explain something that is beyond your knowledge base as a casual fan.

I am far from a casual college basketball fan. Does a casual fan spend a lot of money going to IU games going to the NCAA tournament 7 times. Does a casual fan watching every IU game every year and watch two or 3 other games about every night during the college basketball season.

I brought up that list because you were the one that said that the elite programs has talent through the end of the bench but that list prove that is not the case and you can't accept being wrong.

Also RMK had many guys at the end of the bench who did not contribute much if any at all.

 

[cheyennemtnman]

Troy believes he will be drafted... he is not coming back... no problem

 

[TheSpa]

I am far from a casual college basketball fan. Does a casual fan spend a lot of money going to IU games going to the NCAA tournament 7 times. Does a casual fan watching every IU game every year and watch two or 3 other games about every night during the college basketball season.

I brought up that list because you were the one that said that the elite programs has talent through the end of the bench but that list prove that is not the case and you can't accept being wrong.

Also RMK had many guys at the end of the bench who did not contribute much if any at all.

You seem to have little understanding for the game or how rosters are constructed by elite coaches, and I was just trying to help you see how things are, rather than how you may think they are.

 

[DCDAVID]

He was already seeing the floor. He earned a spot by contributing. Sorry if you consider that meaningless. And he left so he could go somewhere and hopefully earn a scholarship. In spite of his solid play, that wasn't going to be possible at IU.

I agree with IU Scott. Most fans do not care if a walk-on comes back.
This has to one of the few boards in the world in which someone tries to make an issue of whether or not a walk-on sticks around.

 

[DCDAVID]

You really don't think those conversations occurred? There's little doubt they did. And either way, do you think it's a good thing that he felt the need to leave, especially after his contributions to the team this year?

Do you think he should have been given a scholarship?
Even though the 11 points he scored all year might be totally irreplaceable I do not think he should have been given a scholarship.

 

[TheSpa]

I agree with IU Scott. Most fans do not care if a walk-on comes back.
This has to one of the few boards in the world in which someone tries to make an issue of whether or not a walk-on sticks around.

Fair enough. I valued his contribution and do care what happens to him and how he was treated. You and Scott don't. Not much left to discuss.

 

[TheSpa]

Do you think he should have been given a scholarship?
Even though the 11 points he scored all year might be totally irreplaceable I do not think he should have been given a scholarship.

Considering some of the other kids that Crean put on scholarship, I think it's fair to say that Niego deserved serious consideration for one. As for scoring, I've always felt there was more to an evaluation than that, but that's me.

 

[IU Scott]

You seem to have little understanding for the game or how rosters are constructed by elite coaches, and I was just trying to help you see how things are, rather than how you may think they are.

I understand the college game very well and it is you that seems not understand the concepts.

 

[TheSpa]

I understand the college game very well and it is you that seems not understand the concepts.

Your posts indicate otherwise.

 

[IU Scott]

Your posts indicate otherwise.

I think watching the game for over 40 years and seeing many rosters I know how a team is put together. If we are playing the 12th or 13th player then we are in trouble because no team should be playing that many players in a game. Also if you have players like Green or Morgan being you 12th or 13th players they will probably not have the patient to stay around for a few years to wait there turn to get in the rotation. This is why you are seeing more and more transfers because kids are not willing to put the time in and be patient to get playing time.

 

[TheSpa]

I think watching the game for over 40 years and seeing many rosters I know how a team is put together. If we are playing the 12th or 13th player then we are in trouble because no team should be playing that many players in a game. Also if you have players like Green or Morgan being you 12th or 13th players they will probably not have the patient to stay around for a few years to wait there turn to get in the rotation. This is why you are seeing more and more transfers because kids are not willing to put the time in and be patient to get playing time.

IU used the end of their bench quite a bit last year, including their win over UK. Is it your view that they were "in trouble"?

 

[IU Scott]

IU used the end of their bench quite a bit last year, including their win over UK. Is it your view that they were "in trouble"?

Most year you don't and the only reason Burton or Neigo played was injuries. I guess we will just agree to disagree on how important the 12th or 13th players are. If we are playing those guys huge minutes then yes you will be in trouble because you should be only playing 8 or 9 guys at the most.. If they are so important then why do most of the top coaches not have 13 great players on their roster. I showed you yesterday the players that are on the end of the bench of the top programs so I guess the top coaches don't agree with you.

 

[Zizkov]

Most coaches wouldn't operate that way. Once you've awarded a scholarship to a walking, revoking it is a lousy and, thankfully, rare occurrence.

It actually happens a lot and has for many years.

 

[TheSpa]

It actually happens a lot and has for many years.

Who do you recall it happened to in basketball, especially at IU?

 

[TheSpa]

Most year you don't and the only reason Burton or Neigo played was injuries. I guess we will just agree to disagree on how important the 12th or 13th players are. If we are playing those guys huge minutes then yes you will be in trouble because you should be only playing 8 or 9 guys at the most.. If they are so important then why do most of the top coaches not have 13 great players on their roster. I showed you yesterday the players that are on the end of the bench of the top programs so I guess the top coaches don't agree with you.

"Most year"? As I tried to help you understand, injuries and roster turnover make the end of the bench, particularly at IU, very important. If you followed IU during the Crean years, you'd know he's had to reach down there quite a bit.

As far as other programs, IU isn't like the elite schools that you mentioned, and Crean doesn't recruit, coach or manage rosters like those schools. If you've followed IU as you claim, this isn't hard to get. Your posts (that are readable) don't support you.

 

[IU Scott]

"Most year"? As I tried to help you understand, injuries and roster turnover make the end of the bench, particularly at IU, very important. If you followed IU during the Crean years, you'd know he's had to reach down there quite a bit.

As far as other programs, IU isn't like the elite schools that you mentioned, and Crean doesn't recruit, coach or manage rosters like those schools. If you've followed IU as you claim, this isn't hard to get. Your posts (that are readable) don't support you.

The only reason I brought up the list of the other schools was for the fact that you said the elite schools had the roster full of great players. This list shows that you were incorrect about that because even these programs have players at the end of the bench who are not great players. Like I said we just disagree about this topic and many people do as well.

 

[Tony20]

We have to be ( I hope) the only fan base who will complain about the 12th/13th spot on our team as much as this board.

 

[TheSpa]

The only reason I brought up the list of the other schools was for the fact that you said the elite schools had the roster full of great players. This list shows that you were incorrect about that because even these programs have players at the end of the bench who are not great players. Like I said we just disagree about this topic and many people do as well.

Which of the players you listed are you in any way familiar with? I doubt you know anything about them.

 

[quad runner]

Which of the players you listed are you in any way familiar with? I doubt you know anything about them.

Scott - You are right, we don't really care who is at the end of the bench - we care that scholarships are being used up instead of saved for players we could get at the front end of the bench - see this? Priller is taking a ship that could have been used for a guy that CAN help. Most of us think that instead of using a ship on these kids, we should have walk ons and given them a ship on a year to year basis, thus having the ride for future kids that WILL play.

 

[IU Scott]

Which of the players you listed are you in any way familiar with? I doubt you know anything about them.

That is the point, that all teams have players at the end of the bench that don't play and contribute. You make it sound like IU is the only place with players like Priller wasting roster spots.

 

[IU Scott]

Scott - You are right, we don't really care who is at the end of the bench - we care that scholarships are being used up instead of saved for players we could get at the front end of the bench - see this? Priller is taking a ship that could have been used for a guy that CAN help. Most of us think that instead of using a ship on these kids, we should have walk ons and given them a ship on a year to year basis, thus having the ride for future kids that WILL play.

I don't disagree with that at all

 

[jsig]

Hmmm. So Niego came here as a walkon thinking that IU would not be recruiting guards. I don't think so. Just playing 1 year in a big program like IU is great for his resume as he looks for a scholarship. It's even better for him that he got some important minutes. Maybe some view being a walkon at IU is a better learning experience for a year as opposed to being a backup and not playing at a mid-major or going to Jr. college.

I don't think IU should run off Priller if he doesn't want to go. I don't think they will either. If Troy wants to come back get him student loans to finish out his final year. I expect he will be able to pay them off with his 1st pro contract quickly. That said ...

If IU won't pull a schollie from under Priller then why are they pulling out from under Troy? It is not good for recruits to see a school penalizing a player for taking the opportunity to go see where they stand and get feedback from NBA camps if they have NBA aspirations. The process probably needs tweaked from a timeline perspective.

 

[TheSpa]

That is the point, that all teams have players at the end of the bench that don't play and contribute. You make it sound like IU is the only place with players like Priller wasting roster spots.

You're all over the place on this.

 

[IU Scott]

You're all over the place on this.

How so because I have been making the same point all along. The point is that most teams have players on the end of the bench that does not play or contribute but I guess that is hard for you to understand

 

[DCDAVID]

Fair enough. I valued his contribution and do care what happens to him and how he was treated. You and Scott don't. Not much left to discuss.

How he was treated? He was a walk-on that did not get a scholarship which is what typically happens to walk-ons.

 

[Go Hoosiers]

Scott - You are right, we don't really care who is at the end of the bench - we care that scholarships are being used up instead of saved for players we could get at the front end of the bench - see this? Priller is taking a ship that could have been used for a guy that CAN help. Most of us think that instead of using a ship on these kids, we should have walk ons and given them a ship on a year to year basis, thus having the ride for future kids that WILL play.

so if Priller were not here, and lets say we use that spot and end up with Scruggs out of it (hypothetical at this point), and CuJo or Green decides to leave after a year, how may would be on here complaining about "over recruiting" and running kids off when a better option shows up?

 

[IU Scott]

so if Priller were not here, and lets say we use that spot and end up with Scruggs out of it (hypothetical at this point), and CuJo or Green decides to leave after a year, how may would be on here complaining about "over recruiting" and running kids off when a better option shows up?

That is my thinking is if we don't get a certain player in this class it is not because Priller is on the roster. It is guys like Jones and Green who are good players and a player at that position like Scruggs will look elsewhere because of playing time.

 

[HouseDivided2014]

Hmmm. So Niego came here as a walkon thinking that IU would not be recruiting guards. I don't think so. Just playing 1 year in a big program like IU is great for his resume as he looks for a scholarship. It's even better for him that he got some important minutes. Maybe some view being a walkon at IU is a better learning experience for a year as opposed to being a backup and not playing at a mid-major or going to Jr. college.

I don't think IU should run off Priller if he doesn't want to go. I don't think they will either. If Troy wants to come back get him student loans to finish out his final year. I expect he will be able to pay them off with his 1st pro contract quickly. That said ...

If IU won't pull a schollie from under Priller then why are they pulling out from under Troy? It is not good for recruits to see a school penalizing a player for taking the opportunity to go see where they stand and get feedback from NBA camps if they have NBA aspirations. The process probably needs tweaked from a timeline perspective.

I believe under IUs Athlete Bill of Rights, Crean can't pull the scholly from Troy unless he has earned his undergraduate degree. Basically it states that any recruited athlete who attends IU on an athletic scholarship keeps the scholarship for 4 years and cannot have that scholarship revoked by the coaching staff without cause. As long as Troy is meeting the team and schools academic standards/rules, and is working toward his undergraduate degree, he keeps his scholarship.

I don't know if that also covers graduate degrees though I think people have posted Troy did not graduate.

 

[IU Scott]

I believe under IUs Athlete Bill of Rights, Crean can't pull the scholly from Troy unless he has earned his undergraduate degree. Basically it states that any recruited athlete who attends IU on an athletic scholarship keeps the scholarship for 4 years and cannot have that scholarship revoked by the coaching staff without cause. As long as Troy is meeting the team and schools academic standards/rules, and is working toward his undergraduate degree, he keeps his scholarship.

I don't know if that also covers graduate degrees though I think people have posted Troy did not graduate.

I think this kind of situation is the only problem I see with this new NBA rule allowing players this long whether to stay in the draft. It is hard for a coach to wait on a player to decide whether they are coming back like Troy and not go out and recruit a player to take his place.