Delphi murders about to be solved? (Part 1)

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Odinism, White Supremacists, and a Franks Hearing

The plot thickens, or just defense lawyers being lawyers?

They did name at least 2 other suspects.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Odinism, White Supremacists, and a Franks Hearing

The plot thickens, or just defense lawyers being lawyers?

They did name at least 2 other suspects.

When your client has confessed on a tape-recorded phone call, it’s time to throw the long ball.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Odinism, White Supremacists, and a Franks Hearing

The plot thickens, or just defense lawyers being lawyers?

They did name at least 2 other suspects.

They must be desperate to play the secret pagan cult card.

 

[larsIU]

Odinism, White Supremacists, and a Franks Hearing

The plot thickens, or just defense lawyers being lawyers?

They did name at least 2 other suspects.

Wow. It's like the beginning of True Detective. That's messed up.

Or, they've been watching too much HBO.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

The technical legal stuff further evidences this a desperate play.

Mostly, they need to show the search warrant contained lies. They can use omissions too, but they are harder to use to show impact, because the cops don't have to disclose all their case - they just have to show probable cause to search.

The defense is basically saying "an ex-wife and an ex-girlfriend say other guys confessed to them and acted guilty and were Odinists and we interpret branches and blood at the crime scene as Odinists runes, and the cops should have investigated all this more than they did, and should have told the judge all of this exculpatory info in the search warrant affidavit. And the cops also left out or misinterpreted some other stuff that hurts their timeline. And Odinists are guards where our guy is in prison and COULDMHAVE threatened him and caused him to confess falseley (instead of confessing falsely because he was crzy - which is what we said last time."

Any case where the the investigation lasts very long, and has multiple "persons of interest" investigated - ends up wit the defense pointing at one of the OTHER guys as the "real killer."

The defense claim of "abuse at the prison" blew up o. them earlier. It will be interesting to see the prosecution says about this. Good bet they will say "we DID look into those guys, and yes they are bad people, but hefre is why they were cleared, AND none of tghis - even if beleived - means there was not probable cause for the search at HIS house."

If then witnesses on the trail say "that's they guy" and the expert says "THAT bullet came from HIS gun" - he will get convicted.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

So, they started jury selection today and picked 14 of the 16 jurors, or so that's what the news said.

My buddy is the guy reporting on it and I think is in the courtroom, or so it seems like. I'm gonna text him and ask.

 

[Stuffshot]

The technical legal stuff further evidences this a desperate play.

Mostly, they need to show the search warrant contained lies. They can use omissions too, but they are harder to use to show impact, because the cops don't have to disclose all their case - they just have to show probable cause to search.

The defense is basically saying "an ex-wife and an ex-girlfriend say other guys confessed to them and acted guilty and were Odinists and we interpret branches and blood at the crime scene as Odinists runes, and the cops should have investigated all this more than they did, and should have told the judge all of this exculpatory info in the search warrant affidavit. And the cops also left out or misinterpreted some other stuff that hurts their timeline. And Odinists are guards where our guy is in prison and COULDMHAVE threatened him and caused him to confess falseley (instead of confessing falsely because he was crzy - which is what we said last time."

Any case where the the investigation lasts very long, and has multiple "persons of interest" investigated - ends up wit the defense pointing at one of the OTHER guys as the "real killer."

The defense claim of "abuse at the prison" blew up o. them earlier. It will be interesting to see the prosecution says about this. Good bet they will say "we DID look into those guys, and yes they are bad people, but hefre is why they were cleared, AND none of tghis - even if beleived - means there was not probable cause for the search at HIS house."

If then witnesses on the trail say "that's they guy" and the expert says "THAT bullet came from HIS gun" - he will get convicted.

They do not have a "bullet came from HIS gun" as I understand it. When a leak of crime scene photos occurred months ago, some who saw them said the girls were knived, not shot. I don't know if autopsy reports have ever been released.

As I recall, what they have is an unfired shell found at the scene. Apparently, they intend to argue that scratches on the shell were made by the ejector mechanism on his gun. Don't know how scientific that is.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

They do not have a "bullet came from HIS gun" as I understand it. When a leak of crime scene photos occurred months ago, some who saw them said the girls were knived, not shot. I don't know if autopsy reports have ever been released.

As I recall, what they have is an unfired shell found at the scene. Apparently, they intend to argue that scratches on the shell were made by the ejector mechanism on his gun. Don't know how scientific that is.

My buddy in his report said that the prosecution said they will prove the bullet came from his gun.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

They do not have a "bullet came from HIS gun" as I understand it. When a leak of crime scene photos occurred months ago, some who saw them said the girls were knived, not shot. I don't know if autopsy reports have ever been released.

As I recall, what they have is an unfired shell found at the scene. Apparently, they intend to argue that scratches on the shell were made by the ejector mechanism on his gun. Don't know how scientific that is.

The methodology is iffy. At least it was considered so last year when I Googled it and looked at several sites. Sometimes it has played a key role, other times courts haven't even allowed it in.

 

[Stuffshot]

My buddy in his report said that the prosecution said they will prove the bullet came from his gun.

Here is one account during jury selection:

"In their mini opening statement, the defense said Allen confessed to shooting the girls in the back, but the evidence shows they were not shot."

14 jurors selected in Delphi murders trial for Richard Allen

Allen is accused of killing Libby German and Abby Williams in Delphi, Indiana, in February 2017.

www.wthr.com

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

They do not have a "bullet came from HIS gun" as I understand it. When a leak of crime scene photos occurred months ago, some who saw them said the girls were knived, not shot. I don't know if autopsy reports have ever been released.

As I recall, what they have is an unfired shell found at the scene. Apparently, they intend to argue that scratches on the shell were made by the ejector mechanism on his gun. Don't know how scientific that is.

My buddy in his report said that the prosecution said they will prove the bullet came from his gun.

The methodology is iffy. At least it was considered so last year when I Googled it and looked at several sites. Sometimes it has played a key role, other times courts haven't even allowed it in.

The Indiana Supreme Court has rejected at least one argument claiming “tool mark” analysis on unfired bullet casings is inadmissible junk science. So it will come into evidence. As I recall, that case involved tool marks from a fired gun/bullet at a crime scene compared to tool marks from unfired bullets found in the defendants house. Could be wrong.

I think the “stink” arises from some court’s (other states, not Indiana yet) not permitting an expert to say “in my opinion, they came from the same gun” as they allow for fired guns/bullets. They are limited to saying “in my subjective opinion, these marks are similar enough that there is a high/strong likliehood they came from the same gun” - not sure of the precise language they limit/require. The written ballistics report says “subjectively, the marks on test bullets from his gun match the marks on the bullet from the crime scene.”

The Maryland Supreme Court issued an opinion last year calling “regular” fired bullet comparisons into question.

But in the end, it’s a battle of experts and the jury decides.

The kicker here will be alleged confessions. Apparently the guy confessed to his wife in March 2023 in a recorded call, then confessed to anybody who would listen. Like 140+ times, some with details only the killer would know, others with facts that are wrong, others generic. The defense says “he went/was crazy because he was placed in solitary confinement in a maximum security prison for protection.” The prosecution says “he confessed - you can listen to them and decide.”

The PROCESS has been a wild ride. No death penalty sought. 5+ years of cops saying “maybe more than 1 person involved.” The defense has taken every opportunity to agonize the judge, and she tried to toss them after they leaked/allowed to get leaked some crime scene photos and “over-exaggerated” some stuff in pleadings and arguments.

She recently precluded the defense from offering evidence of several alternative third-party suspect because the evidence couldn’t really put them at the scene on the day.

There WILL be an appeal.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Here is one account during jury selection:

"In their mini opening statement, the defense said Allen confessed to shooting the girls in the back, but the evidence shows they were not shot."

14 jurors selected in Delphi murders trial for Richard Allen

Allen is accused of killing Libby German and Abby Williams in Delphi, Indiana, in February 2017.

www.wthr.com

Soooo, he’s coachable?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

They must be desperate to play the secret pagan cult card.

Their “expert” for “it was a ritual sacrifice” got destroyed on cross in the recent hearing to see if that argument could be used at trial.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The bullet evidence does not sound strong.

https://fox59.com/news/legal-expert-doubts-states-bullet-evidence-against-richard-allen/

 

[Baller23Boogie]

The bullet evidence does not sound strong.

https://fox59.com/news/legal-expert-doubts-states-bullet-evidence-against-richard-allen/

Yeah, that's pretty weak.

From my understanding, they've got him recorded confessing on a phone call. If true, that'll be hard to overcome in the end.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

The bullet evidence does not sound strong.

https://fox59.com/news/legal-expert-doubts-states-bullet-evidence-against-richard-allen/

By my count:

They are strong on “Bridge Guy did it.” 3 strong witnesses saw Bridge Guy on the trail and the bridge. Bridge Guy is on video approaching the victims on the bridge and ordering them “down the hill.”

So far, a little weak on “Allen is Bridge Guy.”

They have a car that “matches”/resembles” his car arriving at 1:30 just before 2 witness see Bridge Guy on the trail, headed for the bridge. They have a witness who sees Bridge Guy on the bridge a few minutes later standing on a side platform which Allen admitted he also stood on - issue is when. Those witnesses only saw 1 guy - not 2, so the idea that both Allen and another guy - the “real” Bridge Guy - were out there at 1:30, with Allen leaving on the trail and Bridge Guy arriving - is a hard sell. They have a cop saying “I compared car on the video to his car and I concluded it was his on the video.” They have him changing his story, saying in 2017 “I arrived at 1:30 and left at 3:30” (putting him there when the “down the hill” abduction occurred) and in 2022 saying “I arrived at noon and left at 1:30” (already gone when the abduction occurred).

Allegedly he “confessed 61 times stating details about the crime, some only the killer would know, others incorrect.” Allegedly he confessed 40 more times generically with no details. The defense says “he went crazy because he was housed in solitary confinement in prison instead of in a county jail, so you can’t believe his confessions.”

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Verdict is in. Guilty. Sentencing December 20.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Verdict is in. Guilty. Sentencing December 20.

I was not in the court, just reading press reports, and the bullet evidence seemed really weak. The State Police didn't get the match just by ejecting a round from the gun, but they did get a match if the bullet was fired first. Since the found round wasn't fired, I would have found that very troubling as a juror. But I know there was a lot more evdence. Hopefully, they got it right.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I was not in the court, just reading press reports, and the bullet evidence seemed really weak. The State Police didn't get the match just by ejecting a round from the gun, but they did get a match if the bullet was fired first. Since the found round wasn't fired, I would have found that very troubling as a juror. But I know there was a lot more evdence. Hopefully, they got it right.

The most compelling evidence was his confessions. He confessed verbally and in writing over many months. He confessed to his wife, his mother, the warden, his prison psychologist and her boss, and to guards and inmates acting as his suicide watchers and “buddy.” The defense claimed they were false confessions made during psychotic episodes.

For me, the “sealer” was testimony about when he arrived at the trail to the bridge from which the girls were kidnapped. In 2017, cop notes said he was there “between” 1:30 and 3:30 - during the crime. In 2022, he told the cops “no, arrived at noon, and left at 1:30.” But … that meant that 1:30 there were 2 guys there dressed like/resembling “Bridge Guy” (the killer - videoed by a victim/picture found on her phone) - this guy “leaving” and the “other” “real” Bridge Guy. Nobody saw 2 - everybody saw 1. Then, at trial, the cop who interviewed him said “no - he was very specific about his times - I wrote down that he arrived at 1 and left at 3, and he corrected me to 1:30 and 3:30.” To me, that meant he lied in 2022. So - for me - he was Bridge Guy even if there never was a bullet.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The most compelling evidence was his confessions. He confessed verbally and in writing over many months. He confessed to his wife, his mother, the warden, his prison psychologist and her boss, and to guards and inmates acting as his suicide watchers and “buddy.” The defense claimed they were false confessions made during psychotic episodes.

For me, the “sealer” was testimony about when he arrived at the trail to the bridge from which the girls were kidnapped. In 2017, cop notes said he was there “between” 1:30 and 3:30 - during the crime. In 2022, he told the cops “no, arrived at noon, and left at 1:30.” But … that meant that 1:30 there were 2 guys there dressed like/resembling “Bridge Guy” (the killer - videoed by a victim/picture found on her phone) - this guy “leaving” and the “other” “real” Bridge Guy. Nobody saw 2 - everybody saw 1. Then, at trial, the cop who interviewed him said “no - he was very specific about his times - I wrote down that he arrived at 1 and left at 3, and he corrected me to 1:30 and 3:30.” To me, that meant he lied in 2022. So - for me - he was Bridge Guy even if there never was a bullet.

The timing to me is better than the confessions. I believe the defense person, solitaire can cause people to lose their sanity. It is almost a form of torture, which we know can illicit false confessions . And supposedly he did falsely confess to some crimes.

But the fact he was there, at the times, described a van that was in the area, and sure looks a lot like bridge guy is important. But without being there, I am not sure how I would have decided. As presented, it didn't seem a slam dunk.

I feel bad for the families, seeing those pictures hearing that testimony had to be rough.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

If you look at his photos from that year he was wearing the hat and jacket. It was him. Too many things line up.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

The timing to me is better than the confessions. I believe the defense person, solitaire can cause people to lose their sanity. It is almost a form of torture, which we know can illicit false confessions . And supposedly he did falsely confess to some crimes.

But the fact he was there, at the times, described a van that was in the area, and sure looks a lot like bridge guy is important. But without being there, I am not sure how I would have decided. As presented, it didn't seem a slam dunk.

I feel bad for the families, seeing those pictures hearing that testimony had to be rough.

I helped represent a guy once who absolutely deteriorated into complete delusion while in solitary in federal prison. I could not say whether he was crazy before.

I met with him a couple of times before he went into solitary and got a couple of letters that were “inarticulate” but readable. But after he went into solitary, he was GONE. Gibberish verbally and in writing. Last letter we got was 12 legal pages of nothing. No 3 words in a row made any sense. He was transferred to the federal prison hospital in Missouri and I never learned what happened to him.

I doubt that solitary would “always” do that, or even do that to every inmate with mental issues when they go in (most).

And with Allen, he was in a protective custody cell, but …. he was not in full-blown “solitary.” He had “trustee” inmates and guards assigned to sit outside and watch him (suicide watches) or communicate. He had a psychologist who stopped by most days. He had Internet. He had phone privileges. He had “rec time”.

Some claim his lawyers told him to act crazy, but I would need proof before I believe it. I have issues with them, but I don’t want to believe any lawyer would be that blatantly unethical.

In the end, I’m convinced Allen was the guy and I reject the conspiracy theory that the local cops, state cops, FBI and court railroaded an innocent guy so a Republican candidate in a deep red county could get elected sheriff. I also reject the Odin/Nordic/white supremacist sacrifice theory.

I am concerned that using social media to mine for reasonable doubt arguments and to influence jury pools may be becoming an issue. The YouTube/podcast/Reddit world on this case was crazy.