Delphi murders about to be solved? (Part 1)
- Thread starter mushroomgod_1
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apparently he didn’t notice the filming.
prevailing theory is he didn’t take the phone so he couldn’t be tracked as he left
speculation is that he damaged it, but that’s not confirmed, and whatever he did failed to ruin the data
here’s the clip - the video occurred when has about 60 feet away
the audio was when he was closer, and Libby had already put the phone in her pocket but kept it recording
Okay, fine. I will…but I’m not in an argument with you here. I think we’re both on the same side; we’re both hoping a psychopath is arrested. I get a feeling you’re taking this personally.
A
anon_6hv78pr714xta
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Wow. God, how heartbreaking for those girls' parents. Thanks for posting.
Parents worst nightmare, followed by worse.
Now they’re gonna have to learn the horrible details.
So, according to an update 4 hours ago, the FBI believe that Ron Logan committed the murders. Just like I said, he was wearing the exact same jacket when interviewed two days later. So maybe it's you who didn't read the FBI warrant.
This was 2 days after the murders. Look familiar?
Violent past of landowner revealed after bodies found 1,400ft from his home
NEW details have emerged in the investigation of the 2017 murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi, Indiana. A search warrant was ordered for Ron Logan, who owned the property where the …
www.thesun.co.uk
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Sigh.
Again you have proven you don’t really want to have any actual conversation - you just hate me because I’m a rightie and want to contradict and insult me any way you can.
I never addressed whether the FBI thought Logan did it, or contradicted you saying the same thing. (Yes, according to local rumors some of the FBI thought Logan was the murderer. According to OTHER rumors, local cops suspected Logan too, but later changed their minds. According to OTHER local rumors, some local cops STILL think Logan was in on it. And according to even MORE local rumors, some FBI and local cops, not all, never thought Logan did it because he was 77, too old to carry/drag/pose 2 dead bodies, including one weighing 200 pounds. Who knows which rumors are accurate? Not me.)
I also never contradicted your comment that his blue windbreaker jacket looked like the blue windbreaker jacket Bridge Guy was wearing. Millions say the same thing. Shitty proof of murder, but accurate as far as it goes.
You said “His alibi for where he was that day (going to LaFayette to buy things for his fish tank) was proven to be a a lie.” I corrected THAT. Nothing else. He did not lie about GOING to the fish store, he lied about DRIVING to the fish store. It’s an important difference because it affects the “quality” of the disproven alibi, and makes it less effective as evidence that the alibi proves murder instead of a probation violation. (In fact, if you HAD READ the affidavit discussed below, you’d know that - according to the FBI - he had a receipt from the fish store trip.)
You then asked me for a link to something where “the person who was his alibi said it wasn’t true.” (“if you could link that up, it would be great. Thanks in advance.”) I linked you to the FBI agent’s affidavit in support of the second search warrant at Logan’s property, but you apparently didn’t want to read it, because it was a link where a Reddit poster had posted the copy of the affidavit. Instead you said “Reddit is notoriously wrong.” I suggested again you should read the affidavit - it contained the EXACT INFO you ASKED ME to link, as well as all other info causing the FBI to believe Logan was the killer. You said you would, but now it look like you didn’t, because now you link a TV story about local rumors that the FBI initially thought Logan was the murderer, and snarking that maybe I was the one who did not read the “FBI statement.”
I know a lot about seacrh warrant affidavits, and even the Delphi case. If you would like to know anything, just ask. But when you ask for a link, and it is given to you, it’s sort of rude to refuse to read and then use the same information to wrongly accuse the folks you asked for the info. It would have also saved you the search for the TV report, and given you the “original source record” instead of hearsay TV reports.
It's exactly the opposite. And I don't hate you.
As for his alibi, cellphone location data placed Logan in the area around the trail at the time Abby and Libby disappeared, not 30 miles away. He also admitted to driving to a county dump site on the same day of the murders.
Just my belief, but I think all three of the guys are connected. My guess is that the giant fat guy who they arrested a while back who was pretending to be a ripped "model" type, catfished the girls and shared the info about where they would be with the other two.
Just my opinion. I apologize for being rude.
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So…..anything new on this? Seems like it’s been extraordinarily quiet.
Lots.
I’ve been reading the internet. Apparently, popular opinion is that the cops, prosecutor and judges don't know or follow the law and the perp will walk.
In the world of reality, after the perp wrote a letter to the court saying “turns out I cant hire my own lawyer after all” he got 2, probably appointed by the new Special Judge out of Fart Wayne.
On 11/22, the Special Judge will hold the hearing (set by the local judge the day he recused himself) to decide whether to unseal the “probable cause” info. In an (unwise?) response to a media question, the Special Judge said she did not plan to move the case out of Delphi/change venue. Of course, no one has filed a motion ASKING for a change of venue yet, so maybe she shoulda just pointed that out and kept quiet about any speculative ruling.
Everything else is speculation.
oh yeah.
wife turned him in after finding “something”
daughter turned him in after finding “something”
neighbor accused him of borrowing/not returning/stealing a tool which turned into a report to cops who looked in his tool shed and found “something”
the pedophile Kline from Peru told cops “something”
the pedophile Kline’s electronic data led to “something” connecting him to both cases
the cops just did a do-over of all tips and re-looked at the guy and “something” gave them enough for a warrant and they found “something” and dug up “something” in his yard and impounded his car too
they made up “something” to have an arrest before the election
the dna they do or don’t have enough of led to genealogical tracing back to him
it was aliens
I’ll wait for the affidavit - the Nancy Grace crew just babbles … but it IS (sadly) entertaining
in the end, I don’t think they make an arrest without some strong cards to play
Wow, interesting. Thanks for sharing.
If they knew he was on the trail that day 5 years ago, I wonder why it took this long to make the connection?
It looks like it took a lot of connecting dots. The gun and bullet looks to be the missing piece they needed. Plus that witness that was corroborated by video. He was simply exactly where he and they said he was. Looks like everyone(including Allen) told the truth.
It now appears there was a clerical error that caused Allen to fall off the radar of authorities, his original interview was mislabelled:
fox59.com
‘Clerical error’ may have led police to overlook Richard Allen in Delphi case
DELPHI, Ind. – Why now? That’s one of the biggest questions surrounding the arrest of Richard Allen, who’s charged with murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017. It appears a “cler…
fox59.com
By an FBI employee no less. That’s disheartening.It now appears there was a clerical error that caused Allen to fall off the radar of authorities, his original interview was mislabelled:
‘Clerical error’ may have led police to overlook Richard Allen in Delphi case
DELPHI, Ind. – Why now? That’s one of the biggest questions surrounding the arrest of Richard Allen, who’s charged with murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017. It appears a “cler…
I am little over-sensitive about the issue right now, due to the warrant affidavit issue here in the Breonna Taylor case, but (1) the FBI affidavit to get a search warrant for Logan's house had some serious streeeetch to it, and (2) the FBI initially created a "national serial killer'" feel by putting a badly-conceived "BOLO" on 6,000 billboards in 48 states, and (3) rumor is that an FBI agent still advocates that Logan was involved, and (4) now we see FBI filing clerks buried a plainly valuable lead - not to mention the politicization of the FBI at the national level - and my confidence in the FBI is waning.
In defense of the cops, however, they were FLOODED with tips in even the first week. Like over 7,000. Overwhelmed. So much that state cops - and apparently conservation cops - drove to Delphi if they had an extra shift and just grabbed a tip and ran it down. I can easily see that - "here, go see this guy - see where he was, when who and what he saw - ESPECIALLY see if they saw these 2 girls - we're trying to get a timeline - put the report in a file and put it in that stack over there - NEXT."
Still - "here's a guy who says he was out there - dressed like Bridge Guy - in the time window" SHOULDA raised a red flag priority look.
On the other hand - after 5 years, Allen clearly had no idea that he should NEVER give them that gun. Maybe he forgot and screwed up - gave them the only gun intone they can PROVE was at the crime scene!
I know less about forensics than I do a woman’s body but it seems amazing to me that simply cycling a round could leave a unique mark on a bullet.
The "probable cause" for the arrest warrant (and some other well-known incontrovertible evidence) adds up to this:
The witnesses who were on the trail only saw 1 guy during the relevant time before the victims were abducted at 2:13. Otherwise, the trail was empty.
The witnesses who were on the trail described that 1 guy as generally wearing the same type of clothing as the guy in the Bridge Guy photo/video taken off the victim's cell phone.
The witnesses who were on the trail - and the video from a business on the nearby highway paralleling the trail - corroborate the arrival/departure times given by the other witnesses, and creates a pretty tight time window.
The 1 guy was seen by 3 witnesses at approx 1:30 - he was on the trail headed toward the bridge, they were returning to their car walking away from the bridge.
The 1 guy was last seen standing on the bridge, near the northwest end of the bridge, at approx 1:50, by a witness (Witness 1) who then turns around and heads back up the trail to her car. She sees/passes the victims on the trail, walking toward the 1 guy and the bridge. (Not in the PC affidavit, but a picture of one victim on the bridge, taken and uploaded by the other using the same cell phone that contained the BG pics, was opened at 2:07 by a friend of theirs using Snap Chat.)
He admits he was there on the trail and bridge during the relevant time window (= he was the 1 guy the others saw)
He admits he was dressed like the guy in the Bridge Guy picture (again, = he was the 1 guy the others saw)
The audio and video from the victim's phone camera "prove" the Bridge Guy abducted the victims at the southeast end of the bridge at 2:13, using a gun and ordering them "down the hill"
The creek (Deer Creek) is "down the hill" from the southeast end of the bridge
(Not in the PC affidavit, but the shoe of one victim was found "down the hill" from the southeast end of the bridge.)
The girls bodies were found across the creek from the southeast end of the bridge.
Just before the victims arrived at approx 1:50, a suspiciously-parked car was seen by a witness (Witness 1 above - arriving to walk the trail) at an abandoned building on the west end of the trail (where it starts) immediately adjacent to Highway W 300 N.
To get from the suspicious car to the trail to the bridge, you would walk past where the 3 witnesses above say they saw the 1 guy.
At approx 3:55, a bloody and muddy guy, dressed like Bridge Guy, was seen by a witness (Witness 2) walking on W 300 N, in the direction of the suspiciously parked car, just like Bridge Guy would have walked IF he took the girls across the creek, killed them where they were found, and then walked back to that car on the road-side of the creek rather than the bridge/trail-side of the creek.
The marks on an unfired .40 caliber bullet found at the scene "matches" marks made on unfired .40 caliber bullets ejected from his .40 caliber gun - which he admits is his and which he admits he has never let others use.
It's not a slam dunk guilty verdict, but it is certainly "probable cause"
The prosecution will have to deal with inconsistencies in other police comments, but they may have other evidence NOT described in the arrest warrant affidavit that slams the dunk or lessens the inconsistencies.
The witnesses who were on the trail only saw 1 guy during the relevant time before the victims were abducted at 2:13. Otherwise, the trail was empty.
The witnesses who were on the trail described that 1 guy as generally wearing the same type of clothing as the guy in the Bridge Guy photo/video taken off the victim's cell phone.
The witnesses who were on the trail - and the video from a business on the nearby highway paralleling the trail - corroborate the arrival/departure times given by the other witnesses, and creates a pretty tight time window.
The 1 guy was seen by 3 witnesses at approx 1:30 - he was on the trail headed toward the bridge, they were returning to their car walking away from the bridge.
The 1 guy was last seen standing on the bridge, near the northwest end of the bridge, at approx 1:50, by a witness (Witness 1) who then turns around and heads back up the trail to her car. She sees/passes the victims on the trail, walking toward the 1 guy and the bridge. (Not in the PC affidavit, but a picture of one victim on the bridge, taken and uploaded by the other using the same cell phone that contained the BG pics, was opened at 2:07 by a friend of theirs using Snap Chat.)
He admits he was there on the trail and bridge during the relevant time window (= he was the 1 guy the others saw)
He admits he was dressed like the guy in the Bridge Guy picture (again, = he was the 1 guy the others saw)
The audio and video from the victim's phone camera "prove" the Bridge Guy abducted the victims at the southeast end of the bridge at 2:13, using a gun and ordering them "down the hill"
The creek (Deer Creek) is "down the hill" from the southeast end of the bridge
(Not in the PC affidavit, but the shoe of one victim was found "down the hill" from the southeast end of the bridge.)
The girls bodies were found across the creek from the southeast end of the bridge.
Just before the victims arrived at approx 1:50, a suspiciously-parked car was seen by a witness (Witness 1 above - arriving to walk the trail) at an abandoned building on the west end of the trail (where it starts) immediately adjacent to Highway W 300 N.
To get from the suspicious car to the trail to the bridge, you would walk past where the 3 witnesses above say they saw the 1 guy.
At approx 3:55, a bloody and muddy guy, dressed like Bridge Guy, was seen by a witness (Witness 2) walking on W 300 N, in the direction of the suspiciously parked car, just like Bridge Guy would have walked IF he took the girls across the creek, killed them where they were found, and then walked back to that car on the road-side of the creek rather than the bridge/trail-side of the creek.
The marks on an unfired .40 caliber bullet found at the scene "matches" marks made on unfired .40 caliber bullets ejected from his .40 caliber gun - which he admits is his and which he admits he has never let others use.
It's not a slam dunk guilty verdict, but it is certainly "probable cause"
The prosecution will have to deal with inconsistencies in other police comments, but they may have other evidence NOT described in the arrest warrant affidavit that slams the dunk or lessens the inconsistencies.
I did a quick look, tool mark identification isn't universally accepted as accurate. Unless there is more evidence, that round may not be enough. Especially given one witness saw a PT Cruiser and another a Smart Car. Neither is a Ford Focus.
Prosecutors most have some stuff in reserve, but if the defense can inject concern for tool mark identification, I think this case could have some trouble.
Prosecutors most have some stuff in reserve, but if the defense can inject concern for tool mark identification, I think this case could have some trouble.
Controversies and Opinion
(Above Image: In 1975, Congress enacted Federal Rule of Evidence 702, which was intended to simplify and liberalize the admission of expert testimony.) ...
toolmarkanalysis.weebly.com
It's a machine. That part doesn't surprise me, especially at a super magnified level.
Did He leave the shell b/c he was in a hurry? But then again he staged the bodies. I haven't seen anywhere how they were killed? Gunshots? Stabbings? There was a LOT of blood loss according to what I've read. I've not heard where anybody heard gunshots. Was he showing off? Nervous and fumbling?
Seems to be the critical link that's going to fry him.
Is that somehow supposed to foster discussion? If so, can you translate it from MTIOTF to English?
I think that Reddit post makes a decent argument that the vehicle types “guessed at” by the witnesses look alike - especially when you factor in they had no idea they needed to remember it, saw it for maybe 10 seconds max while driving by, and saw it backed-up against a building.
The court will certainly hear that. Typically defense attorneys are good at throwing stuff into the air and hoping the result obscures what the prosecution is saying, this will certainly be something.
From what I’ve heard they were stabbed to death, the gun being used to control them.
I'm not a gun guy, but it seems like there's a huge debate over that.
In the end I think the defense gets an expert that confuses the hell out of the jury on that point. I don't think RA gets convicted if that's a critical part of the State's evidence.
I don't think the car testimony will cause much of a problem. Apparently all 3 witnesses saw a single car parked in an odd way at the old DCS building in the same spot....with only a few minutes between the observations.
I am more interested in what the defense does with the ID of the 3 teenage girls on the trail. Reading the affidavit, it's not clear how close the 3 girls were to each other when they made their observations. If there was considerable distance between them, there may be room to argue that there were two different men on the bridge. One of the witnesses says that the guy she saw was dressed in all black.....coat, jeans, and pants.
There is reason to believe that Ron Logan might also have been involved....and the defense will probably argue he was the killer. In the original FBI PC Affidavit the FBI agent stated that she had probable cause to believe that Ron Logan had committed the murders. And there have been rumors that the FBI pushed for charges against him, and the local prosecutor declined. I believe this rumor. I believe that is the reason that the local cops, the ISP, and the FBI became at odds over the investigation.
To be clear, I believe RA was bridge guy, and did commit the murders. I do also believe, however, that RL was in some way involved or, alternatively, originally located the bodies and hid that from the authorities.
Had RA not went to the police station in October 2022, he never would have been charged, imo, even if somehow independent of that the police had the info about his bullet. They wouldn't even have had PC to do a search, unless they have a lot more they haven't told us about RA's involvement. RA was an absolute moron for telling the cops what he was wearing that day.........which was exactly what BG was wearing. Maybe a death wish?
I will say that the defense attorneys were full of shit when they said that the evidence in the PC Aff was "flimsy". IMO, they damaged their credibility saying so. Their point, going forward, is that the evidence in only circumstantial, not direct. A worthy point, but they are still full of shit using "flimsy".
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Regarding your last paragraph, if the prosecutors don’t have significantly more than what has been publicized, then I think the defense attorneys may have a point. All I’ve seen so far is a lot of circumstantial evidence.
I have to believe that there is more evidence we don’t know about. They’re not getting a conviction on what they’ve made public, in my opinion. Absent a confession, of course.
I think it’s enough evidence. I’ve seen cases tried with no direct evidence and all circumstantial evidence. Like the Jill Behrman case. They had nothing on that guy. Those tool marks will play a role.
My view and I am talking probabilities is that he didn't know he was being filmed so he never thought he would be linked to the murders.
Indiana man confessed to murders of teenage girls in phone call with his wife, documents say
An Indiana man charged with killing two teenage girls confessed multiple times to the murders in a phone call to his wife while in prison.
apnews.com
His defense says he’s losing it.(mind)
Indiana man confessed to murders of teenage girls in phone call with his wife, documents say
An Indiana man charged with killing two teenage girls confessed multiple times to the murders in a phone call to his wife while in prison.
So if the pleas of his defense attorneys are correct about his confinement is causing his mental state to deteriorate. I wonder if he thinks death is worse or easier treatment for his client? And hell he hasn't even been found guilty yet.Indiana man confessed to murders of teenage girls in phone call with his wife, documents say
An Indiana man charged with killing two teenage girls confessed multiple times to the murders in a phone call to his wife while in prison.
Conveniently right after he confessed.
Someone’s setting up a mental health excuse for the confession.
