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Cuomo out.

I'm down . . . if you can prove your case.

Proof please.
Did you not watch the hearings? In the real world Fauci lied. Anyone paying attention knows our money got to the Wuhan lab for gain of function research. Fauci can parce words and say it didn’t happen.

I don’t care who it is. These folks going to hearings in the house and senate and lying need to be aggressively prosecuted. Maybe it would stop.
 
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If word salad is the basis for criminal proceedings . . . .
Sope, fine. Let these folks all dance around and lie. It don’t take any genius to watch Fauci’s testimony about funding Wuhan and change of function experiments to know he’s lying about us funding the lab. Granted, maybe it’s not important. Like lying about getting a blow job and sticking a cigar in an interns vagina in the WH wasn’t really important.
 
Sope, fine. Let these folks all dance around and lie. It don’t take any genius to watch Fauci’s testimony about funding Wuhan and change of function experiments to know he’s lying about us funding the lab. Granted, maybe it’s not important. Like lying about getting a blow job and sticking a cigar in an interns vagina in the WH wasn’t really important.
As long as we're doing what abouts . . .

 
Sope listen to his testimony using word salad to lie about funding the Wuhan lab.
Rand Paul is all over his ass. Fauci at one point said Paul is wrong because the funded research was being done in NC not in a Wuhan lab, as if to say “wrong about one thing = wrong about all.” But Paul kept right on, asserting/describing how the research was plainly “gain of function” - solely (?) because it sought to take animal and SARS viruses and make them more easily transmissible to humans. Fauci says that is wrong, but never really articulates precisely why. I suspect it’s parsing and semantics, with Fauci repeating they never funded “gain of function” research on Covid and Paul repeating that “gain of function” research (generally?) was funded.

It’s a nuanced parsing battle.

The cynic in me bets that Fauci and Paul both know about classified research re: weaponized viruses that they can’t talk about openly and are using the gap in public knowledge as thier weapons and defenses in this spat.

Paul is a smart guy, and he is flat out convinced that anti-bodies in folks who tested positive and fought off the virus naturally are sufficient protection for themselves and that the vaccinations are sufficient protection for the vaccinated. He is also abnormally (compared to other elected folks) protective of RIGHTS - including the right to not take a vaccine if you don’t want to, and understands/is willing to accept the negative consequences of protecting RIGHTS.

The typical “label him stupid so our sycophants will ignore and criticize him” card won’t work on Paul. He has common sense, he won’t lie even if he knows his position will be unpopular and YouTube/Twitter will take his stuff down, and the old-school potheads like that he had a bong he named Buddha.

thoughtful people listen to him even if/when they disagree - THAT is why Lefty Lumpers dislike and target and attack him
 
Fauci flat out lied - and admitted it - back in early 2020, when he first started talking about the use of/need for masks by non-symptomatic folks. He said he did it to preserve masks for the health care workers. So he is one of those folks who think a small cadre of government bureaucrats can and should deny truthful info to the citizenry. That alone should disqualify him from public service, and I have no idea how or why he survived a long-running feud with Trump, who went through appointees like candy.

His battle now with Paul is - like Stoll says - weakly based on semantics. The sound-bite world will not delve in, but others will.

Bottom line - we funded “gain of function” research. Did it include specific research on Covid itself? Just SARS? Did Covid leak from that lab/research? Time will tell. There is smoke and Rand Paul is looking for fire. (Faucis most recent complaint was that Paul was trying to “leave an impression” that Covid leaked from a Wuhan lab where gain-of-function research we funded was happening.)
 
No, it's a scientific literacy battle. One person knows what he is talking about (Fauci) and the other guy (Paul) is spouting off words and terms that he doesn't even begin to try to understand.
Fine. Paul is stupid. Hell, all eye surgeons are stupid. He should just shut up and stop asking questions. Fauci is brilliant. We should trust him. Hell, Sunshine laws should be repealed. Unelected officials should never be subjected to oversight by Senate committees.

 
FFS - He admitted to lying about masks right out of the gate.. He said we don't need them at first and then later said the statement was wrong, but it was made so that there would be enough for healthcare workers.
 
I am sure that he took some science classes 25+ years ago. Great for him. He's not stupid but he's pretending to be a virologist.
No, he’s “pretending” to be a Senator asking whether we funded research on “gain of function” in viruses that then leaked accidentally from the lab and killed millions of people worldwide - something lefties “pretended” to care about when Republicans were in power and now, not so much.

Some are satisfied with:

“Q - Dr Fauci, did we do that?
A - Nope

End of inquiry”

aren’t. Some folks don’t believe him because there is a money trail that makes “nope” less believable.

“follow the money”
 
FFS - He admitted to lying about masks right out of the gate.
FFS. Put away your Rand Paul body pillow. Science is not a pile of facts, it's a way of pursuing the truth. When a recommendation changes based on new studies, they didn't F-in lie to you before, they LEARNED MORE.
 
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FFS. Put away your Rand Paul body pillow. Science is not a pile of facts, it's a way of pursuing the truth. When a recommendation changes based on new studies, they didn't F-in lie to you before, they LEARNED MORE.
Which is NOT what happened with Fauci and his mask advice. At least, according to Fauci.

Maybe he’s confused?
 
FFS. Put away your Rand Paul body pillow. Science is not a pile of facts, it's a way of pursuing the truth. When a recommendation changes based on new studies, they didn't F-in lie to you before, they LEARNED MORE.
"Scientists" are never wrong.
Got it.
It's a lot like corporate management.
Chase a number until you find a "better" number to chase.
 
Scientists are asked to give advice based upon incomplete data all of the time. They do. Then more data comes in, and their advice might well change. Call them "wrong" if you want.

This isn't really that hard.
 
Rand Paul is all over his ass. Fauci at one point said Paul is wrong because the funded research was being done in NC not in a Wuhan lab, as if to say “wrong about one thing = wrong about all.” But Paul kept right on, asserting/describing how the research was plainly “gain of function” - solely (?) because it sought to take animal and SARS viruses and make them more easily transmissible to humans. Fauci says that is wrong, but never really articulates precisely why. I suspect it’s parsing and semantics, with Fauci repeating they never funded “gain of function” research on Covid and Paul repeating that “gain of function” research (generally?) was funded.

It’s a nuanced parsing battle.

The cynic in me bets that Fauci and Paul both know about classified research re: weaponized viruses that they can’t talk about openly and are using the gap in public knowledge as thier weapons and defenses in this spat.

Paul is a smart guy, and he is flat out convinced that anti-bodies in folks who tested positive and fought off the virus naturally are sufficient protection for themselves and that the vaccinations are sufficient protection for the vaccinated. He is also abnormally (compared to other elected folks) protective of RIGHTS - including the right to not take a vaccine if you don’t want to, and understands/is willing to accept the negative consequences of protecting RIGHTS.

The typical “label him stupid so our sycophants will ignore and criticize him” card won’t work on Paul. He has common sense, he won’t lie even if he knows his position will be unpopular and YouTube/Twitter will take his stuff down, and the old-school potheads like that he had a bong he named Buddha.

thoughtful people listen to him even if/when they disagree - THAT is why Lefty Lumpers dislike and target and attack him
Rand Paul . . . the biggest asshole in the Senate.

You didn't vote for him, did you?

Oh . . . you did. :eek:
 
Sope, fine. Let these folks all dance around and lie. It don’t take any genius to watch Fauci’s testimony about funding Wuhan and change of function experiments to know he’s lying about us funding the lab. Granted, maybe it’s not important. Like lying about getting a blow job and sticking a cigar in an interns vagina in the WH wasn’t really important.

I didn't realize Trump did that but it is right up his alley so it is no surprise.
 
Rand Paul . . . the biggest asshole in the Senate.

You didn't vote for him, did you?

Oh . . . you did. :eek:

No - you confused “most unpopular truth teller” with “biggest asshole”
Yes.
Yes, I did. (Imagine that - how did he get my ballot and The Donald couldn’t? Hmmm. There are more things in Heaven and earth than are dreamt of in Whoratio’s philosophy.

“The biggest asshole in the Senate” sounds like a plan for a reality TV/internet stream show. We’re talking “Córdoba”
 
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Not Rand Paul

Shitter has been wrong at every turn & based on his definition of science has no interest in science, & Sope wants to make it about Rand Paul….Jesus wept.
 
Scientists are asked to give advice based upon incomplete data all of the time. They do. Then more data comes in, and their advice might well change. Call them "wrong" if you want.

This isn't really that hard.

Bleeding George Washington to death is just collateral damage to a scientist.

“We had good intentions.”
 
Deep thoughts from MTIOTF

E71_lVOWUAELalF.jpg
 
FFS. Put away your Rand Paul body pillow. Science is not a pile of facts, it's a way of pursuing the truth. When a recommendation changes based on new studies, they didn't F-in lie to you before, they LEARNED MORE.
I've posted his admission multiple times. He didn't LEARN MORE. He lied, admitted that he lied and and gave the reason he lied.
 
No, for the 100th time, he cited how there was a lack of information concerning transmission at that time, and was truthful in admitting that there were severe costs if the recommendation were to "wear your N95s right now, everybody!" since there was not a sufficent global supply to allow that. There was a shortage and the early lesson from China was that health care worker carnage was out of control.

If my choice is A vs. B and it's 50-50, and choice B will have severe negative effects that choice A lacks, I will choose A

If my choice is A vs. B and it's 95-5 in favor of choice B, and choice B will have severe negative effects that choice A lacks, I will choose B and aim to minimize the negative consequences to the best of your ability. That's what happened, with multiple layer cloth masks recommended since the N95 shortage could not be addressed in a timely manner.

I know multivariable thinking is tough to grasp, but it's part of Fauci's job, along with the demand that he make recommendations that are always based upon extrapolation from incomplete data.
 
We ought to all be wearing N95s by now, when in a hot zone like indoor public spaces in Florida.

But the previous administration did not get the ball rolling AT ALL, and the current administration really didn't prioritize it enough either.

Try to buy N95s, real N95s. It's a joke. Even KN95s are hard to get.
 
No, for the 100th time, he cited how there was a lack of information concerning transmission at that time, and was truthful in admitting that there were severe costs if the recommendation were to "wear your N95s right now, everybody!" since there was not a sufficent global supply to allow that. There was a shortage and the early lesson from China was that health care worker carnage was out of control.

If my choice is A vs. B and it's 50-50, and choice B will have severe negative effects that choice A lacks, I will choose A

If my choice is A vs. B and it's 95-5 in favor of choice B, and choice B will have severe negative effects that choice A lacks, I will choose B and aim to minimize the negative consequences to the best of your ability. That's what happened, with multiple layer cloth masks recommended since the N95 shortage could not be addressed in a timely manner.

I know multivariable thinking is tough to grasp, but it's part of Fauci's job, along with the demand that he make recommendations that are always based upon extrapolation from incomplete data.
Nope, he lied about it. Here's his admission, on video. You allude to it above. In the beginning he unequivocally stated masks wouldn't help. Then he later said he said that due to concerns over supply. Call it what you want, but most people would call that a lie.

In his own words. Although he's quick to generalize and lump his statement into "many people were saying this" when asked why we were told not to use masks early on.

“Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N-95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply, And we wanted to make sure that the people, namely the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected.”

 
I'm down . . . if you can prove your case.

Proof please.

we know for fact that Fauci lied to congress more than once.

we also know for fact he was funding and knew of the gain of function insanity.

as to the possibility of gain of function eventually creating something way more viral and lethal, (if it hasn't already), or that covid came from the Wuhan lab, those are still just in the 99% probability category, and not 100% known like the lying and funding and knowing about gain of function, that don't still carry a 1% doubt factor.
 
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That quote verifies EXACTLY what I was saying. The science was not then clear, so Fauci recommended against something that was sure to do damage due to mask shortages. That isn't a lie, it is taking the likely unintended consequences of the recommendation under account.

So it's true that the mask shortage played a role in initially recommending against masks, when it was unclear is they were effective, anyway.

When it became clear that even non-surgical masks had some efficacy (not 100%, but not 0%), the recommendation changed and the negative consequences of having a mask mandate were mitigated.
 
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That quote verifies EXACTLY what I was saying. The science was not then clear, so Fauci recommended against something that was sure to do damage due to mask shortages. That isn't a lie, it is taking the likely unintended consequences of the recommendation under account.

So it's true that the mask shortage played a role in initially recommending against masks, when it was unclear is they were effective, anyway.

When it became clear that even non-surgical masks had some efficacy (not 100%, but not 0%), the recommendation changed and the negative consequences of having a mask mandate were mitigated.
If the science wasn't clear and they didn't know if they were effective, why were they so concerned about making sure that healthcare workers had them in order to avoid infection? That's his stated reason in that quote. He didn't say "we don't know" if masks work or not. He stated that they did not work and wouldn't help.

At the beginning no one knew for sure how long the virus survived on surfaces. That didn't lead to people being told there's no need to wipe your groceries with a disinfectant. It led to just the opposite. You had doctors on TV demonstrating how to set up clean stations to avoid cross contamination.

Suffice to say that neither one of us is going to convince the other. I'm going to stick with "lying sack of shit" when describing him. The majority of people I know who are refusing to get jabbed point to a lack of trust and openness. Fauci has contributed to that since the beginning. He should be sacked and replaced with someone who can build trust with the public. We'll never get everyone vaccinated, but it could be a helluva lot higher rate than it is.
 
If the science wasn't clear and they didn't know if they were effective, why were they so concerned about making sure that healthcare workers had them in order to avoid infection?
If you can't see the difference between people being knee deep in dozens of heavily infected people for 12 hours shifts and you wanting to safely make a 15 minute run to WalMart for Hot Pockets and Twinkies, I really can't help you.
 
If you can't see the difference between people being knee deep in dozens of heavily infected people for 12 hours shifts and you wanting to safely make a 15 minute run to WalMart for Hot Pockets and Twinkies, I really can't help you.
So you're saying masks have always had a level of efficacy then and it was never zero as he asserted in the beginning? Got it. That's the lying part of all this. Glad you finally came around to my point.
 
You may be beyond help. It's like I'm talking to Jethro's dumber cousin.

Let's try again.

It was unclear at that time if masks worked well enough against that particular disease to recommend that 250 million people run out and start using them right now. One reason was that there was no supply to allow 250 million people to start using them, anyway.

It was clearer that people with 100-fold or 1000-fold higher level of viral exposure (doctors, nurses) ought to be using K95s, should we find out that the virus was as bad as it turned out to be. A reasonable precaution.

Think, please. I believe in you.

Your nurse leaves the room when you get an X-ray. You say WTF? I thought this was SAFE???

Well, you are getting one X-ray. if the nurse stays in the room with you, he/she is getting 50 X-rays a day. So there is a different safety recommendation for the health care worker and the patient.
 
So you're saying masks have always had a level of efficacy then and it was never zero as he asserted in the beginning? Got it. That's the lying part of all this. Glad you finally came around to my point.

Fauci also lied about no way did this come from a lab or was engineered.

he knew all along where it came from.

it's a national disgrace he is heading things up, or ever being on tv.

it's like the Hirohito heading up the US Navy in WWII, or the arsonist being fire chief.

insane.
 
Fauci also lied about no way did this come from a lab or was engineered.

he knew all along where it came from.

it's a national disgrace he is heading things up, or ever being on tv.

it's like the Hirohito heading up the US Navy in WWII, or the arsonist being fire chief.

insane.
If our government is hiding stuff on the lab/origins etc, then i highly doubt fauci would have been allowed to spill the beans
 
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