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Could Ohio see a major political shift?

cosmickid

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Oct 23, 2009
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Ohio has definitely been trending more "red", but it seems like the GOP may soon find themselves a victim of their own "success"...

The issue is abortion rights, and just as in most of the country the GOP in Ohio is desperately out of touch with the majority of the people in the state. The Dobbs decision was supposed to send the issue back to the states, but in every state where abortion has been a ballot initiative the anti-abortion forces have lost. That includes ruby red states like Kansas and Montana...

The only weapon anti-choice forces have are gerrymandered legislatures, who are out of touch with the majority of the citizens they claim to represent. Ohio is a particularly egregous example where the ultra gerrymandered legislature is intent on playing games...

So in order to get a ballot initiative on the Nov ballot statewide, the state Constitution requires that 350,000 signatures are collected. The anti-choice forces knew that measures codifying abortion rights would easily surpass that threshold, and in fact this week the groups supporting such a measure submitted 700,000 signatures, basically double the minimum amount required. So as expected, the measure will appear on Ohio's ballot,and the people will determine it's fate, as the Ohio Constitution intended...

So the Ohio GOP anticipated they'd lose and tried to circumvent the Constitutional process. First off they looked at where other pro-choice initiatives had passed, and determined that all of those voted on in Aug were successfully passed. So the GOP controlled Legislature chaanged the law in Ohio and basically outlawed Aug elections as wasteful and too expensive.

They then introduced a measure to circumvent the Ohio Constitution, and change the threhold for approving a ballot initiative from a simple majority of 50%+ to 60%. It's no accident that polls in Ohio showed pro-choice initiative approval at 59+ %, which is why their only hope is to change the law...

But they can't just change the Constitution to revise the threshold to 60% without a direct vote, which of course would be conducted under the previous threshold of 50% + either approving or rejecting the proposed law. And of course when did they schedule this "special election" to be held? In the month of Aug, despite they themselves outlawing Aug elections.

Clearly they are hoping that confusion and uncertainty over an Aug election will result in a low turnout and allow them to revise the threshold to 60%. But it looks like it may well backfire, and not only result in their 60% threshold being rejected, but also galvanize people who are nominally GOP AND pro choice to vote against GOP candidates who are anti-choice. They have certainly awakened the Ohio Dem party, which has largely been comatose since the Obama years...

 
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Sounds like pro-murder propaganda
It’s an interesting election. The “Vote No” folks claim this isn’t about abortion, but every person who has confronted us with a petition for “No” was wearing something with pro-abortion messaging.

The “No” side has claimed this is about preventing “outside interest groups” from gaining control. Yet, the “No” side is backed and funded by numerous leftist groups, including the ACLU and Planned Parenthood.

Changing the state’s constitution shouldn’t be easy. We can’t amend the U.S. Constitution without an involved process. The present 50%+1 system is too easy and subject to “fad issues.” Make it the proposed 60% so the pro-abortion lobby, funded externally, can’t ram through its false position. Rather than end up with an eventual state law of legal abortion through something like 15 weeks we’re likely to end up with a law that, after peeling back the leaves, permits abortion at any point. This will then likely result in another battle to get something rational rather than the radical. Rinse and repeat, repeat and repeat . . .
 
It’s an interesting election. The “Vote No” folks claim this isn’t about abortion, but every person who has confronted us with a petition for “No” was wearing something with pro-abortion messaging.

The “No” side has claimed this is about preventing “outside interest groups” from gaining control. Yet, the “No” side is backed and funded by numerous leftist groups, including the ACLU and Planned Parenthood.

Changing the state’s constitution shouldn’t be easy. We can’t amend the U.S. Constitution without an involved process. The present 50%+1 system is too easy and subject to “fad issues.” Make it the proposed 60% so the pro-abortion lobby, funded externally, can’t ram through its false position. Rather than end up with an eventual state law of legal abortion through something like 15 weeks we’re likely to end up with a law that, after peeling back the leaves, permits abortion at any point. This will then likely result in another battle to get something rational rather than the radical. Rinse and repeat, repeat and repeat . . .
You put more thought into it than I did. I was more kind of responding to the labels used in the post.
 
It’s an interesting election. The “Vote No” folks claim this isn’t about abortion, but every person who has confronted us with a petition for “No” was wearing something with pro-abortion messaging.

The “No” side has claimed this is about preventing “outside interest groups” from gaining control. Yet, the “No” side is backed and funded by numerous leftist groups, including the ACLU and Planned Parenthood.

Changing the state’s constitution shouldn’t be easy. We can’t amend the U.S. Constitution without an involved process. The present 50%+1 system is too easy and subject to “fad issues.” Make it the proposed 60% so the pro-abortion lobby, funded externally, can’t ram through its false position. Rather than end up with an eventual state law of legal abortion through something like 15 weeks we’re likely to end up with a law that, after peeling back the leaves, permits abortion at any point. This will then likely result in another battle to get something rational rather than the radical. Rinse and repeat, repeat and repeat . . .
So it is just a coincidence the decision to have the change made in August just before the expected abortion vote was to happen in November? This problem has been around for quite a while, it just was the luck of the draw a decision was made to hold a special election (which costs money) and not just wait until November and it had nothing to do with the abortion amendment?
 
Sounds like pro-murder propaganda
I wouldn’t define it as murder. Especially if you’re of the Christian faith considering God is alleged to have aborted 100% of global pregnancies during the flood. A batting average that would make PP blush.
 
You put more thought into it than I did. I was more kind of responding to the labels used in the post.
Well, Ohio isn’t going blue. The senate PsTB in DC are concerned - with good reason - that Sherrod Brown will fail in his re-election bid. They were all convinced Tim Ryan would win, rather than be handily defeated by J.D. Vance.

The “No” push is such a scam. Outside groups and deep money are going to take over our state. Oh, the humanity! (But don’t look behind the curtain at all the groups and deep, outside money funding this push.)
 
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Well, Ohio isn’t going blue. The senate PsTB in DC are concerned - with good reason - that Sherrod Brown will fail in his re-election bid. They were all convinced Tim Ryan would win, rather than be handily defeated by J.D. Vance.

The “No” push is such a scam. Outside groups and deep money are going to take over our state. Oh, the humanity! (But don’t look behind the curtain at all the groups and deep, outside money funding this push.)
Abortion is something that was going to result in a bit of a backlash after Roe got dropped. You had 50 years of a position getting set up as a default and to expect that everyone was going to fall in line with the new paradigm right off the bat would be nonsensical. My position was always that politically states should restrict it as much as was possible in each state. So how it is approached will look different depending on locality. Then you have a long and protracted timeframe of getting people uses to the new normal.

You have to ween the drug addict off their drug.
 
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So it is just a coincidence the decision to have the change made in August just before the expected abortion vote was to happen in November? This problem has been around for quite a while, it just was the luck of the draw a decision was made to hold a special election (which costs money) and not just wait until November and it had nothing to do with the abortion amendment?
Of course it’s no coincidence. This is just the beginning of volleying the abortion issue. It’s right between the eyes. The GOP legislature pushing this winks and denies that, but everybody knows.

The left says the “No” push is not about abortion. It’s just one of those things, you know, that everybody outside Kroger stores, libraries and a bunch of restaurants pestering you to sign a “Vote No” petition is wearing a pro-abortion shirt or jacket or vest.
 
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Well, Ohio isn’t going blue. The senate PsTB in DC are concerned - with good reason - that Sherrod Brown will fail in his re-election bid. They were all convinced Tim Ryan would win, rather than be handily defeated by J.D. Vance.

The “No” push is such a scam. Outside groups and deep money are going to take over our state. Oh, the humanity! (But don’t look behind the curtain at all the groups and deep, outside money funding this push.

Complaining about "outside groups" and deep money funding the pro-choice push is a lot like the pot calling the kettle black. National Right to Life, Alliance for Defending Freedom Federalist Society and other entities trying to push for law based on "religious values" aren't outside, in your opinion?

Hell the ADF even brags about it...


As to Brown's race, we'll see. He was a lot more likely to lose without this issue and the reawakening it's resulted in among Dem activists. Actually everything I read regarding the Ryan race was that national Dems were convinced he would lose and consequently declined to spend $$ on his race, preferring to use it in other close but more winnable states like AZ,GA, PA etc...

Sucks for Ohio that they're stuck with a nob like Vance, but overall it was a pretty successful strategy.
 
I wouldn’t define it as murder. Especially if you’re of the Christian faith considering God is alleged to have aborted 100% of global pregnancies during the flood. A batting average that would make PP blush.
God did a lot of smiting (and worse) in both the Old Testament and New Testament. Fortunately for him he wasn't held accountable to a a higher power . Kind of like our Supreme Court justices
 
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God did a lot of smiting in both the Old Testament and New Testament. Fortunately for him he wasn't held accountable to a a higher power . Kind of like our Supreme Court justices
Justices can be impeached. But not just because a ruling doesn't go the way you want.
 
Don't have to get an abortion.

Just playing devils advocate but if someone doesn't want a baby why would sterilization be a problem?
Because there’s quite a chasm between not wanting a baby right now and not wanting one ever. In fact, I am personally friends with more than one woman that I know for a fact had abortions when they were late teens, early 20s, and are now wonderful mothers to multiple kids.

EDIT: to add that everyone on this board probably is too, they just may not know it.
 
Because there’s quite a chasm between not wanting a baby right now and not wanting one ever. In fact, I am personally friends with more than one woman that I know for a fact had abortions when they were late teens, early 20s, and are now wonderful mothers to multiple kids.

EDIT: to add that everyone on this board probably is too, they just may not know it.
Doubtful. Of the women that get abortions less than 10% of them are white women. Most women of all categories that get abortions are single.
 
Doubtful. Of the women that get abortions less than 10% of them are white women. Most women of all categories that get abortions are single.
1) your stats are WAY off.
2) do you only know white women who are good mothers?
3) I didn’t say you know all the women who have had abortions. If only one woman in your church/small town/school/work that you know has had an abortion, you’re in the club.
 
If only one woman in your church/small town/school/work that you know has had an abortion, you’re in the club.
Plus, the way these anti-abortion laws are being written in places like Texas, if your spouse unfortunately suffers a miscarriage and the non-viable fetus does not fully self-abort (and this is very common) the procedure to complete the miscarriage is considered illegal abortion care. You wait it out and pray your wife doesn't bleed to death while scared doctors twiddle their thumbs.
 
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Answer to the OP: No.

Americans support abortion rights, but a big chunk of them don't really care that much about it. They care enough to defeat a ballot measure that's put right in front of them. They don't care nearly enough to read your math problem about why x=vote Democrat.
Pro-choice has tended not to be a single vote issue. There is a chance that was because it was the law of the land. Now that it is not, almost certainly some number will move to it being the decisive factor in their vote. Personally I suspect it will not be as many as the pro-life had. But the change may also reduce their number.
 
Pro-choice has tended not to be a single vote issue. There is a chance that was because it was the law of the land. Now that it is not, almost certainly some number will move to it being the decisive factor in their vote. Personally I suspect it will not be as many as the pro-life had. But the change may also reduce their number.
I'm sure the effect will be non-zero. I'm also pretty darn sure the effect won't be enough to turn Ohio purple.
 
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Kinda have to be pregnant to get an abortion though.
In this wacky upside down woke world, where men are chest feeding.

I think you just uncovered the topic for the next thing that freaks are being oppressed over. There will soon be flags, parades and riots so that non pregnant men can have abortions. Honestly I have been setting thinking of what the most Effed up thing that they could possibly come up with and you did it right here on the cooler.

Unpregnant Men Demand Abortion Access!
When do they want it?
NOW...
just in case they get pregnant soon. (I'm betting on the chance of that being nearly ZERO).
 
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1) your stats are WAY off.
2) do you only know white women who are good mothers?
3) I didn’t say you know all the women who have had abortions. If only one woman in your church/small town/school/work that you know has had an abortion, you’re in the club.
1.) Dude, from your own source

"Non-Hispanic White women had the lowest abortion rate (6.6 abortions per 1,000 women) and ratio (117 abortions per 1,000 live births),"

2.) What does this have to do with anything? And no.

3.) I don't really care who does what.
 
1.) Dude, from your own source

"Non-Hispanic White women had the lowest abortion rate (6.6 abortions per 1,000 women) and ratio (117 abortions per 1,000 live births),"

2.) What does this have to do with anything? And no.

3.) I don't really care who does what.
1) your claim was that white women account for 10% of abortions. Both sources show that it’s fully 1/3. Rate is immaterial to percent of total.
2) the only reason that a low number of white women having abortions would be relevant to your claim that you’re not likely to unknowingly being friends with a good mother who has had an abortion is if you only know white women. Otherwise, it’s a non-sequitor.
3) it’s awesome that you don’t care who does what, but the key part of this particular discussion is whether you know good moms who have had abortions at one time or another. Again, you claimed that a low incidence of white women having abortions somehow makes it so it’s not likely that you do know one/some. So you caring or not doesn’t matter.
 
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