Coaching Satisfaction by comparison...

[fireforeffect]

First of all let me say I have been one of CTC's worst critics in the past. There was a point in time (prior to JBJ's injury last season) that I was ready to throw the towel in on CTC. But then, the situation changed at IU. Injuries occurred which forced some lineup changes on the court. Players who wouldn't have been afforded much playtime got thrust into roles that they may not have been ready to fill. But fill them they did. IU coaching staff found itself forced to change its style of play with the talent that it had remaining... but change it they did... and the next thing you know... this looked like a team that could slay giants... yes, the team stumbled a couple of times in the spring, and yes, they were throwing some pretty green players on the court at times... but that team seemed to have found itself and performed well enough to make the sweet 16. Unfortunately they then ran into a buzz saw and their fabled season came to a close.

Now, it just so happens that there exists another team in this state that I have chose to keep an eye on and even would like to have seen them succeed only when they were not playing IU. And during their competition in the NCAA last season, I had actually turned the TV off when I felt they had the game under control... LOLOL... unfortunately, they managed to muck it up in the end of the game and lose what was surely a gimme in the basketball world. And it was not the first time that their coaching staff had done that in a heated game.

FInally, as we approach with great anticipation the start of a new and potentially memorable season, I must say, I am extremely happy that the coaching staff at IU is not even close to the abysmal despair that clouds the rafters of that other team in this state. And I must say, Thank you CTC, for being a lot better coach. Best of luck with the upcoming season.

 

[neigo]

I appreciate this post. I have made this comment numerous times right now there is only one coach in the Big ten that I would take over CTC. Some in another post claimed you could not see a change in coaching style. All i will say to that either you don't understand the game of basketball or you choose not to admit. There was a lot of good changes. However I do agree with some of the critics of CTC I think this coming year is very critical for his coaching future.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I appreciate this post. I have made this comment numerous times right now there is only one coach in the Big ten that I would take over CTC. Some in another post claimed you could not see a change in coaching style. All i will say to that either you don't understand the game of basketball or you choose not to admit. There was a lot of good changes. However I do agree with some of the critics of CTC I think this coming year is very critical for his coaching future.

Changes made last year:

1) Crean playing other players. Not sure you can really classify as a change as much as being forced as a result of JBJr injury.

2) Defense got better. Crean turned D over to Chuck Martin. Was that why they were better 2nd half - or because of said players above seeing court time they wouldn't have if JBJr isn't injured?

3) Stopped having 2-1/2 HR practices in February. Nice change - but if you've been coaching 17 years and being paid $3.5 mil shouldn't you ALREADY be doing something a 7th grade girls coach would know to do?

 

[choptalk]

First of all let me say I have been one of CTC's worst critics in the past. There was a point in time (prior to JBJ's injury last season) that I was ready to throw the towel in on CTC. But then, the situation changed at IU. Injuries occurred which forced some lineup changes on the court. Players who wouldn't have been afforded much playtime got thrust into roles that they may not have been ready to fill. But fill them they did. IU coaching staff found itself forced to change its style of play with the talent that it had remaining... but change it they did... and the next thing you know... this looked like a team that could slay giants... yes, the team stumbled a couple of times in the spring, and yes, they were throwing some pretty green players on the court at times... but that team seemed to have found itself and performed well enough to make the sweet 16. Unfortunately they then ran into a buzz saw and their fabled season came to a close.

Now, it just so happens that there exists another team in this state that I have chose to keep an eye on and even would like to have seen them succeed only when they were not playing IU. And during their competition in the NCAA last season, I had actually turned the TV off when I felt they had the game under control... LOLOL... unfortunately, they managed to muck it up in the end of the game and lose what was surely a gimme in the basketball world. And it was not the first time that their coaching staff had done that in a heated game.

FInally, as we approach with great anticipation the start of a new and potentially memorable season, I must say, I am extremely happy that the coaching staff at IU is not even close to the abysmal despair that clouds the rafters of that other team in this state. And I must say, Thank you CTC, for being a lot better coach. Best of luck with the upcoming season.

And yet he hasn't gotten any further in the tournament since being at IU then that other team's coach. Add to that statewide media support and a history that should allow easier recruiting and I can see why you are happy. Just like the other team's fans, they are happy until something goes wrong. Watch the place light up when that happens.

 

[ORG]

I appreciate this post. I have made this comment numerous times right now there is only one coach in the Big ten that I would take over CTC. Some in another post claimed you could not see a change in coaching style. All i will say to that either you don't understand the game of basketball or you choose not to admit. There was a lot of good changes. However I do agree with some of the critics of CTC I think this coming year is very critical for his coaching future.

I think every year is critical for ANY coach at IU, so I agree with you about this year.

 

[ORG]

Changes made last year:

1) Crean playing other players. Not sure you can really classify as a change as much as being forced as a result of JBJr injury.

2) Defense got better. Crean turned D over to Chuck Martin. Was that why they were better 2nd half - or because of said players above seeing court time they wouldn't have if JBJr isn't injured?

3) Stopped having 2-1/2 HR practices in February. Nice change - but if you've been coaching 17 years and being paid $3.5 mil shouldn't you ALREADY be doing something a 7th grade girls coach would know to do?

LOL.... You seem to be saying that CTC had little or nothing to do with all three of the above. Of course I have to strongly disagree if that is what you are saying.

CTC has always played a lot of players and he has always played more players when injuries occur. I seem to remember that he was quoted as saying that he actually began dialing back late season practices two seasons ago. And, if he did turn over defense to Coach Martin, it still was HIS decision to do so and he was the one who hired Coach Martin.

 

[Tony20]

I appreciate this post. I have made this comment numerous times right now there is only one coach in the Big ten that I would take over CTC. Some in another post claimed you could not see a change in coaching style. All i will say to that either you don't understand the game of basketball or you choose not to admit. There was a lot of good changes. However I do agree with some of the critics of CTC I think this coming year is very critical for his coaching future.

I've firmly been in Crean's corner since the start. I can deal with homer comments all day long. I took pride in standing by team/staff side after most jumped ship somewhere in the Pacific. At times there's frustration. Happens with any coach of a program you/we all love. I wasn't happy that Knight refused to change during his last 6 or 7 years. I was tired of 1st round exits but I stayed by his side because he was coach at IU and obviously his success. Same went for Davis. Same went for Sampson. Some people forget we pulled the plug on a legit Final 4 team that year.

I do think our program has found it's footing though. Maybe not at the pace our fans wanted. People will always say the boring and generally lazy thinking comment about " Sweet 16's" must be my expectations. It's not. However my expectations are that we compete and have legit chance at Big 10 Titles which will in turn lead to deep tourney runs/Final 4's. We've won 2 conference titles in 4 years. We are predicted to contend again. If we get a seed this year without going Kentucky/Carolina before a chance for Final 4 I believe we can get there.

The reason I responded and my apologies for rambling is last comment you made about critical year coming up. Crean wasn't going anywhere last year prior to Maui/Duke...and obviously isn't going anywhere after winning another Big 10 Title, beating Kentucky in tourney,etc....

PS. Bo Ryan didn't make Final 4 until year 13. He also had 7 1st/2nd round exits during that time.

 

[neigo]

I do not think CTC isnt going anywhere after this coming year. But i do think he is in position to take the program to the next level. Some changes he made as a coach were. One he learn to manage outside influence when things were going bad after Duke he chose to pull his team together from within rather than being influenced by the media or message boards like this one. By his own admission he was to involved with social media he figured out that fans on sites such as this one are the lowest level fans when it comes to understanding basketball. I think deep within he could care less what we think or say. And thats great. Number two he has created a atmosphere that kids want to day. If we ended are season like we did the two previous years TB would have never stayed JB would have made a dumb decision and left.

 

[TheSpa]

I do not think CTC isnt going anywhere after this coming year. But i do think he is in position to take the program to the next level. Some changes he made as a coach were. One he learn to manage outside influence when things were going bad after Duke he chose to pull his team together from within rather than being influenced by the media or message boards like this one. By his own admission he was to involved with social media he figured out that fans on sites such as this one are the lowest level fans when it comes to understanding basketball. I think deep within he could care less what we think or say. And thats great. Number two he has created a atmosphere that kids want to day. If we ended are season like we did the two previous years TB would have never stayed JB would have made a dumb decision and left.

Neither of these so-called changes had any impact on the team. This is generic stuff that has no depth of understanding whatsoever.

 

[neigo]

TheSpa Bob Knight biggest strength as a coach was this very thing. He always was in charge of his team. No onr else. This is some of the ignorance that people notice on this board.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

LOL.... You seem to be saying that CTC had little or nothing to do with all three of the above. Of course I have to strongly disagree if that is what you are saying.

CTC has always played a lot of players and he has always played more players when injuries occur. I seem to remember that he was quoted as saying that he actually began dialing back late season practices two seasons ago. And, if he did turn over defense to Coach Martin, it still was HIS decision to do so and he was the one who hired Coach Martin.

He began dialing back FIFTEEN years as a coach instead of 17. Nice change . . . vbg

 

[T.M.P.]

There was a lot of good changes.

What were they? Except being really "good"? And, how "good" were they?

LOL...

 

[neigo]

TMP are you serious that you couldnt see some changes. That is just plain ignorance. Come on your smarter than that your suppose to be a hall of famer

 

[IU Scott]

TMP are you serious that you couldnt see some changes. That is just plain ignorance. Come on your smarter than that your suppose to be a hall of famer

Some people just don't want to see the change because that might mean they were wrong.

 

[T.M.P.]

TMP are you serious that you couldnt see some changes. That is just plain ignorance. Come on your smarter than that your suppose to be a hall of famer

Comprehension 101: I asked you what they are, not that I thought there weren't any.

Please pay attention in the future and try not to infer what was not implied, and absolutely do not assume intent..

Thanks...

 

[T.M.P.]

Some people just don't want to see the change because that might mean they were wrong.

derp

 

[TheSpa]

TheSpa Bob Knight biggest strength as a coach was this very thing. He always was in charge of his team. No onr else. This is some of the ignorance that people notice on this board.

Neither of those generic, non-change "changes" we're Bob Knight's biggest strengths.

 

[TheSpa]

Some people just don't want to see the change because that might mean they were wrong.

You've never spelled out any changes that suggest you know what you're talking about. It's all cliches and mindless drivel.

 

[neigo]

You better stop your really looking foolish. If you dont think controlling outside influence is a big part of coaching 18 to 22 year olds you dont have a clue about coaching. Bob Knight talked all the time how much the mental is greater than the physical it posts like this that you say are you serious tell me your joking.

 

[IndianaHoops]

I've firmly been in Crean's corner since the start. I can deal with homer comments all day long. I took pride in standing by team/staff side after most jumped ship somewhere in the Pacific. At times there's frustration. Happens with any coach of a program you/we all love. I wasn't happy that Knight refused to change during his last 6 or 7 years. I was tired of 1st round exits but I stayed by his side because he was coach at IU and obviously his success. Same went for Davis. Same went for Sampson. Some people forget we pulled the plug on a legit Final 4 team that year.

I do think our program has found it's footing though. Maybe not at the pace our fans wanted. People will always say the boring and generally lazy thinking comment about " Sweet 16's" must be my expectations. It's not. However my expectations are that we compete and have legit chance at Big 10 Titles which will in turn lead to deep tourney runs/Final 4's. We've won 2 conference titles in 4 years. We are predicted to contend again. If we get a seed this year without going Kentucky/Carolina before a chance for Final 4 I believe we can get there.

The reason I responded and my apologies for rambling is last comment you made about critical year coming up. Crean wasn't going anywhere last year prior to Maui/Duke...and obviously isn't going anywhere after winning another Big 10 Title, beating Kentucky in tourney,etc....

PS. Bo Ryan didn't make Final 4 until year 13. He also had 7 1st/2nd round exits during that time.

Bo never finished lower than 4th in the B10 and never missed the NCAA. Crean isn't Bo Ryan....

This is an important year.....expectations are very high....

 

[IndianaHoops]

TMP are you serious that you couldnt see some changes. That is just plain ignorance. Come on your smarter than that your suppose to be a hall of famer

What the anti-Crean's say is that if JBJ doesn't get hurt, there isn't this improvement on defense. Which may or may not be true...

We will find out very soon....KU comes calling early in the season

 

[TheSpa]

You better stop your really looking foolish. If you dont think controlling outside influence is a big part of coaching 18 to 22 year olds you dont have a clue about coaching. Bob Knight talked all the time how much the mental is greater than the physical it posts like this that you say are you serious tell me your joking.

I know exactly what Knight said and, more importantly, what he meant, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the generic gibberish you've posted and / or attributed to him.

 

[TheSpa]

I've firmly been in Crean's corner since the start. I can deal with homer comments all day long. I took pride in standing by team/staff side after most jumped ship somewhere in the Pacific. At times there's frustration. Happens with any coach of a program you/we all love. I wasn't happy that Knight refused to change during his last 6 or 7 years. I was tired of 1st round exits but I stayed by his side because he was coach at IU and obviously his success. Same went for Davis. Same went for Sampson. Some people forget we pulled the plug on a legit Final 4 team that year.

I do think our program has found it's footing though. Maybe not at the pace our fans wanted. People will always say the boring and generally lazy thinking comment about " Sweet 16's" must be my expectations. It's not. However my expectations are that we compete and have legit chance at Big 10 Titles which will in turn lead to deep tourney runs/Final 4's. We've won 2 conference titles in 4 years. We are predicted to contend again. If we get a seed this year without going Kentucky/Carolina before a chance for Final 4 I believe we can get there.

The reason I responded and my apologies for rambling is last comment you made about critical year coming up. Crean wasn't going anywhere last year prior to Maui/Duke...and obviously isn't going anywhere after winning another Big 10 Title, beating Kentucky in tourney,etc....

PS. Bo Ryan didn't make Final 4 until year 13. He also had 7 1st/2nd round exits during that time.

Crean isn't comparable to Ryan in any way. Bo owned Tom to the point where you winced when they went against each other.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

LOL.... You seem to be saying that CTC had little or nothing to do with all three of the above. Of course I have to strongly disagree if that is what you are saying.

CTC has always played a lot of players and he has always played more players when injuries occur. I seem to remember that he was quoted as saying that he actually began dialing back late season practices two seasons ago. And, if he did turn over defense to Coach Martin, it still was HIS decision to do so and he was the one who hired Coach Martin.

"Played a lot of players" - please give us examples.

"Quoted saying he dialed back practices" - ok, please provide link to that quote.

"Played more players when there were injuries" - I already stated that. Are you agreeing with me?

"Coach Martin and the defense" again, what made them better? His coaching? Or OG and Juwan getting more time? Disagree, that's fine - please provide specifics.

 

[Kylehornsbyrules]

Everyone probably need to temper their expectations regarding post season results

 

[tru123dt]

Everyone probably need to temper their expectations regarding post season results

Final four or bust baby!

 

[ORG]

"Played a lot of players" - please give us examples.

"Quoted saying he dialed back practices" - ok, please provide link to that quote.

"Played more players when there were injuries" - I already stated that. Are you agreeing with me?

"Coach Martin and the defense" again, what made them better? His coaching? Or OG and Juwan getting more time? Disagree, that's fine - please provide specifics.

If you don't agree with me fine . . . these are my opinions. Take them as is or reject them. But I'm not going to get into documenting things and then arguing about the results.

 

[iubud]

You better stop your really looking foolish. If you dont think controlling outside influence is a big part of coaching 18 to 22 year olds you dont have a clue about coaching. Bob Knight talked all the time how much the mental is greater than the physical it posts like this that you say are you serious tell me your joking.

What evidence is there that Crean controlled outside influences any differently? He did seem to get across to the team that making dumb decisions and putting yourself in bad situations would shorten your time at IU. Whatever influences you are talking about are still there.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

If you don't agree with me fine . . . these are my opinions. Take them as is or reject them. But I'm not going to get into documenting things and then arguing about the results.

I'm just asking for something of substance that gives reasoning to what you state. Too much to ask?

For instance - we've been talking about coaching changes (supposedly) that Tom Crean made this past year. I've seen a lot of statements made or opinions, but nothing offered as an indicator that clearly illustrates said statements.

I mentioned the defense got better primarily because OG and Juwan (mostly OG) got more time on the court as a result of JBJr's injury. Look at the minutes for all three players prior to the Rutgers game: Blackmon regularly played 25-29 minutes/GM; OG averaged around 8-9 minutes/GM, JM about 6. Post injury look at what those guys increased to.

Now you're gonna tell me that - had JBJr not gotten injured - those guys would have gotten the same minutes? And if they didn't that you still would have the improvement on D with JBJr?

C'mon, man . . .

 

[Harpo Marxist]

if comparisons are of interest....I would be interested to see a comparison of the schools' tournament expectations of the two programs...and whether or not those expectations are being met.

 

[tru123dt]

"Played a lot of players" - please give us examples.

"Quoted saying he dialed back practices" - ok, please provide link to that quote.

"Played more players when there were injuries" - I already stated that. Are you agreeing with me?

"Coach Martin and the defense" again, what made them better? His coaching? Or OG and Juwan getting more time? Disagree, that's fine - please provide specifics.

People here rather be right than enjoy our Hoosiers. It is getting really pathetic to watch it unfold on here on a daily bases. Now denying the fact Coach Crean did make decisions last year that made positive yields for the team is delusional or agenda driven. Even Izzo has stated that he has seen him make changes this year in how he handled the team. Plus him dialing back practices this year is well documented. Man O man, you cannot stand to give Coach Crean an inch of credit. There are negatives in having him as our Coach but there are a lot of positives as well. Also, here is documentation of some of his changes.
http://www.insidethehall.com/2016/04/18/thats-a-wrap-tom-crean-4/

 

[Rangeline Fan]

I've firmly been in Crean's corner since the start. I can deal with homer comments all day long. I took pride in standing by team/staff side after most jumped ship somewhere in the Pacific. At times there's frustration. Happens with any coach of a program you/we all love. I wasn't happy that Knight refused to change during his last 6 or 7 years. I was tired of 1st round exits but I stayed by his side because he was coach at IU and obviously his success. Same went for Davis. Same went for Sampson. Some people forget we pulled the plug on a legit Final 4 team that year.

I do think our program has found it's footing though. Maybe not at the pace our fans wanted. People will always say the boring and generally lazy thinking comment about " Sweet 16's" must be my expectations. It's not. However my expectations are that we compete and have legit chance at Big 10 Titles which will in turn lead to deep tourney runs/Final 4's. We've won 2 conference titles in 4 years. We are predicted to contend again. If we get a seed this year without going Kentucky/Carolina before a chance for Final 4 I believe we can get there.

The reason I responded and my apologies for rambling is last comment you made about critical year coming up. Crean wasn't going anywhere last year prior to Maui/Duke...and obviously isn't going anywhere after winning another Big 10 Title, beating Kentucky in tourney,etc....

PS. Bo Ryan didn't make Final 4 until year 13. He also had 7 1st/2nd round exits during that time.

Bo Ryan also never finished worse than 4th in conference.

 

[Rangeline Fan]

If you don't agree with me fine . . . these are my opinions. Take them as is or reject them. But I'm not going to get into documenting things and then arguing about the results.

Back up your opinions with facts that support them.

We all know you wont though. You never have.

 

[tru123dt]

Back up your opinions with facts that support them.

We all know you wont though. You never have.

I just gave a link that backs his opinions up, so move on.

 

[Rangeline Fan]

I just gave a link that backs his opinions up, so move on.

What you dont understand, is that this goes well beyond this post for Org.

YOU had to post something for him. He never would have done it on his own. History proves it. Ask him to provide anything....ANYTHING....that supports his opinion and it is met with...

 

[ORG]

If you don't agree with me fine . . . these are my opinions. Take them as is or reject them. But I'm not going to get into documenting things and then arguing about the results.

I'm just asking for something of substance that gives reasoning to what you state. Too much to ask?

For instance - we've been talking about coaching changes (supposedly) that Tom Crean made this past year. I've seen a lot of statements made or opinions, but nothing offered as an indicator that clearly illustrates said statements.

I mentioned the defense got better primarily because OG and Juwan (mostly OG) got more time on the court as a result of JBJr's injury. Look at the minutes for all three players prior to the Rutgers game: Blackmon regularly played 25-29 minutes/GM; OG averaged around 8-9 minutes/GM, JM about 6. Post injury look at what those guys increased to.

Now you're gonna tell me that - had JBJr not gotten injured - those guys would have gotten the same minutes? And if they didn't that you still would have the improvement on D with JBJr?

C'mon, man . . .

You're mind is already made up. So it is useless for me to try to change it.

 

[tru123dt]

What you dont understand, is that this goes well beyond this post for Org.

YOU had to post something for him. He never would have done it on his own. History proves it. Ask him to provide anything....ANYTHING....that supports his opinion and it is met with...

Why would he have to give you something that is already so easily accessible? This prove most on here care more about their agenda than the facts.

 

[Shirtsandskins]

Why would he have to give you something that is already so easily accessible? This prove most on here care more about their agenda than the facts.

It proves that? Does it really?

Oh yeah, I think you saying that prioves your agenda

 

[Rangeline Fan]

Why would he have to give you something that is already so easily accessible? This prove most on here care more about their agenda than the facts.

Let me REPEAT what I posted....I am sure you are capable of reading.

What you don't understand, is that this goes well beyond this post for Org.

YOU had to post something for him. He never would have done it on his own. History proves it. Ask him to provide anything....ANYTHING....that supports his opinion and it is met with...

This has nothing to do with agenda. If anything it shows that Org, is either incapable or unwilling to support his own opinion. Again, this goes WAY BEYOND his post in this thread.

Of course, had you actually read what I wrote as opposed to trying to have it fit YOUR agenda, then you would have realized that I said have more to do with things beyond this thread...beyond whether CTC did anything to make changes.

 

[Kylehornsbyrules]

Final four or bust baby!

Prepare for disappointment.