Flamethrower is the only rational approach to a 2 million+ headcount and 6.5 trillion.
Your approach means the wheels of change move so slowly as to be meaningless
Co-President Musk
- Thread starter Bowlmania
- Start date
Your approach means the wheels of change move so slowly as to be meaningless
Can’t be fired unless it’s predicated on performance or conduct. Again they aren’t at will. That’s likely why they proposed severance.
A 20 year old nerd might be able to evaluate data and outcomes. I’ve long believed much of the fed gov is a jobs program. Go back and look at Biden’s hiring. You think those agencies improved outcomes? There should be measurable data evidencing same that anyone Tesla hires is probably smart enough to measure. Vs what? Some goofy HR person?
How did they perform. Is the job necessary
See where and how Biden grew the federal workforce
Trump slashed rolls at most agencies and is pledging to do so again after Biden boosted the civil service.www.govexec.com
I read there is only one 19 year-old. He is genius. Started companies at 16 while others were smoking dope playing with software and games the whizz kid created.
Or worse, the objective was to burn the house down and the spider was only a pretext.
And exactly how is all of that working out?
See where and how Biden grew the federal workforce
Trump slashed rolls at most agencies and is pledging to do so again after Biden boosted the civil service.
www.govexec.com
And yes for countless programs a 19 year old can say what the fck. A community outreach director makes 85k planned and held 4 events and 150 people showed up
Redundant jobs. Bloat. Shit you have a calif Dem admitting there’s awful waste.
The knee jerk defense of a gov running 35 trillion in debt with 35 million in poverty is bizarre. It’s time for radical change
40 years? I think MAGA began with Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address. He was just more articulate than Trump.
You can get axed and I am sure whatever you do would have zero impact on the vast majority of the country as well, would that make your job simply a works program?
Listen, I saw the stuff USAID was blowing money on and it was stupid. A complete waste and mostly nonsense to spread an American "progressive" worldview. I don't want to fund that. However, cutting all of that to zero does have an impact on our influence around the globe. If we had invested some of the money that was being used for Tranny Theater in Guatemala or whatever and reappropriated it to instead build schools or pay teachers or do anything that helps improve the economic situation in that country, we are likely to see a reduction in the amount of people that want to relocate here through illegal immigration.
Clean things up. I don't have an issue with that but those are positions we do need. You cannot wrote off soft power altogether and firing every single person who had the contacts and the know how in that very specialized area of experience is stupid. The vast majority of government employees do the job they are paid for. If congress said to stop funding tranny theaters and instead fund we'll construction in Africa, they would have done that. Make it easier to fire people who want to be activists.
And stop being dicks about it. We went from saying the Democrat politicians were dicks for telling miners to "learn to code" to doing the exact same thing. It is just being an asshole. Moat of these people are just normal men and women like you who are doing a job. Relishing their misfortune and celebrating like they personally did something to you is just petty.
If my company ran a 2 trillion dollar net loss, I would expect to be axed.
Could all these things you desire happen without making these people go in front of a 19 year old who's been given the title of expert?And exactly how is all of that working out?
See where and how Biden grew the federal workforce
Trump slashed rolls at most agencies and is pledging to do so again after Biden boosted the civil service.
And yes for countless programs a 19 year old can say what the fck. A community outreach director makes 85k planned and held 4 events and 150 people showed up
Redundant jobs. Bloat. Shit you have a calif Dem admitting there’s awful waste.
The knee jerk defense of a gov running 35 trillion in debt with 35 million in poverty is bizarre. It’s time for radical change
Yeah, so set the budget and then let the management figure it out. Just because someone is a "Wiz Kid" at programming doesn't mean they are good at anything else. Elon is a "Wiz" at his particular skill set, I wouldn't want him sitting on a medical board offering opinions on who the best surgeon is to work on me.
You can agree on a problem and disagree on the plan to address it.
I couldn’t agree more re them being good people doing their jobs. But there is no guarantee to that job. There shouldn’t be. Our gov is a failing entity. At a company there would be layoffs. To good people. If we can cut jobs to save $ we have to
There should be more respect and humility. Sadly that’s neither trump nor Musk.
But this process is long overdue.
Yeah and again I already told you there was a process for that which was ignored and it has made this more difficult and more likely to lose higher performers than if it would have been followed.
Good luck on the firings.
Yeah. It is called a RIF. Bill Clinton did it.
To quote Rock, "invincible ignorance".
Yes, your world view is perfect and cannot be challenged ever, not by anyone.
So, show me your work on Politico. Seriously, I am sure you have some studies you personally have conducted. Show the math. Not all media, which your entire post is about, so your work on Politico.
Lmao I understand that process. Rif is a euphemism for bureaucracy and red tape. It’s a complicated mess for agencies that impacts productivity and can give rise to lawsuits. Do you not understand that’s what they are trying to rightfully circumvent but will likely have to resort to if they don’t get their desired outcomes. Bc 19 yr olds can’t do what Marv fears. Bc unlike everywhere else they are harder to fire
I’ve been laid off before, it sucks and I don’t wish it on anybody putting in a good faith effort to their work. Hard lesson to learn at a young age, there are no guarantees in the reality of the private sector.
I don’t know where it became written in stone that said reality should never extend to the public sector. But as you can tell, it ticks me off a hair.
And I’ve heard people try to obfuscate
“well actually people can be laid off and fired in the civil service”
Come off it. At-will employment compared to civil service protections are two different worlds of employment.
The f#cking assholes are the politicians responsible for creating those jobs and waste. When those jobs eventually get axed (because we’re broke) you are correct innocent bystanders unfairly get their lives uprooted.
However, the f#cking pieces of shit in this situation are the politicians refusing to be moral and make difficult choices because they were more concerned with getting reelected. And yes there are plenty of GOP politicians that are just as guilty.
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My wife and I were both laid off (through no fault of our own) when she was pregnant with our third child and the other two were both under the age of five. It sucked.
You know what didn't happen though? One of the world's richest men sitting on one of the biggest social media platforms in the world whipping people into a frenzy to tell us to suck it and how bad we were at our jobs.
See the difference?
Process. I never wanted Republicans fired because they are Republicans. Private employers have a very wide latitude for firing. Basically fire for any reason, just don't say it is for the magic code words. I know a lot of people at companies let go when they got to their 60s with the "change of direction" excuse. Just funny it seems to always happen to older people. That is far harder in the government, and I think the government has it right.
The government has created a process for getting fired. Generally, unless extreme, you must be told what is wrong and given a chance to correct it. Obviously something like stealing, or worse, and they don't have to go through the remediation. People get fired from the government.
Federal Employee Termination Laws - 2024 Legal Guide
Federal employee termination laws are in place to protect the rights of civil servants while also allowing the government to manage its workforce efficiently.
www.fedelaw.com
It is funny that people who never worked for the government know EXACTLY what it is like.
One of the best scenes in Downfall was when Hitler was filling out his marriage license and the bureaucrat told him he hadn't signed the form that he didn't have Jewish blood. That bureaucrat knew his job was to carry that out, even in the face of Hitler. Now it was a horrible law, but that is what we want in a bureaucrat. Someone who is going to follow the policy evenly no matter if it is a homeless guy or Elon Musk. And of course in a private company, said person would be fired for daring to question someone important like that.
An inherently flawed analysis and resulting graph puts Politico near the center and near the top.
Where is your review of Politico. Certainly you have done extensive work. Show us all the data you have accumulated. I expect it to be as impressive as your HVAC work. Show the data you have.
I would hope this gutting isn’t predicated on tribal affiliation. Pubs have plenty of culpability in defense and other areas. That’s why I agree with what crazed wrote in another thread about even cuts. Can’t be political or show favoritism.Process. I never wanted Republicans fired because they are Republicans. Private employers have a very wide latitude for firing. Basically fire for any reason, just don't say it is for the magic code words. I know a lot of people at companies let go when they got to their 60s with the "change of direction" excuse. Just funny it seems to always happen to older people. That is far harder in the government, and I think the government has it right.
The government has created a process for getting fired. Generally, unless extreme, you must be told what is wrong and given a chance to correct it. Obviously something like stealing, or worse, and they don't have to go through the remediation. People get fired from the government.
Federal Employee Termination Laws - 2024 Legal Guide
Federal employee termination laws are in place to protect the rights of civil servants while also allowing the government to manage its workforce efficiently.
It is funny that people who never worked for the government know EXACTLY what it is like.
One of the best scenes in Downfall was when Hitler was filling out his marriage license and the bureaucrat told him he hadn't signed the form that he didn't have Jewish blood. That bureaucrat knew his job was to carry that out, even in the face of Hitler. Now it was a horrible law, but that is what we want in a bureaucrat. Someone who is going to follow the policy evenly no matter if it is a homeless guy or Elon Musk. And of course in a private company, said person would be fired for daring to question someone important like that.
People have experience with gov. I think they have an idea. I don’t agree that they deserve protections beyond what ees receive in the private sector
just stop with the HVAC crap. You posted the graph and table trying to convince the board politico is honest with little bias. I think your graph is bullshit. End of story.
Stop with your bullshit. You said how far left Politico is, prove it. If you know for a fact my 2 independent analysis are BS, show your cards. Why should I trust your analysis when you don't have a non partisan bone in your body. Prove it or admit it is totally unsupported personal bias.
Management is part of the problem. I don’t want government management figuring out what is worthwhile government activities. I want an outsider who has demonstrated experience in accomplishing difficukt task with low overhead. Space X revolutionized rocketry. I want that kind of exoeriebce looking at government.
If we agree on the problem, why do you find it difficult to identify as a republican? As republicans we are not entitled to have agreement on everything. Disagreement is part of the landscape.
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You don’t need to trust my analysis. I said your table is facially flawed. If that doesn’t make you think about the point I don’t care. I know what I think, I said why, and I’m done.
Elon is an emotionless autist.
He’s not the autist we deserve.
But he’s the autist we need right now.
You don't like doing the work. You know Politico is biased, you present it as fact, and damn well have no interest in defending that view in the least. That explains every post you have ever made here. Period, full stop. You feel no need to actually prove anything to us mere mortals because you were taught to think in ways far superior to us in law school. Politico is basically a communist rag because you say so.
I have no doubt you are smarter than me. But the next time you actually put work into a post will be the first time. Brains often equals lazy. You are barely a tenth of a step beyond DBM who just posts Twitter stuff with no analysis or thought.
It must be nice to assume every thought you have ever had is perfect.
I've been talking with friends in the DoD the last few days and almost every single one of them is a Republican and they are unanimous that what Musk is doing is stupid and damaging. They're absolutely going to make their agency unable to do their mission. The ignorant among us will say that's great, but they're ignorant.
So who are we using as the private sector. Look at many corporations that are unionized, most have rules that spell out how a union member is to be disciplined. Is that what you want, because that is what we have.
Or do you want the right to fire anyone at any time for any reason? given the political nature of government, I don't know how that leads to good things. Every 4 years we change over the entire government workforce will prove interesting.
I don't mind the idea of cutting, I think Crazy has hit the nail on the head. Too many people are seeing government workers as an enemy and are being way too happy the enemy is being fired. They aren't the enemy. If we have too many workers, do an analysis and RiF. If people are bad employees, fill out the paperwork (same GM would have to do for a line worker) and get rid of them.
But we are kidding ourselves if we don't think some excitement is the belief government workers are Ds and deserve being eliminated for that reason.
There is little to no respect or humility anywhere in government when politics is different. There is only respect and humility among political fellow travelers.
Waste, fraud and abuse in government has been a target of both parties for decades. Now that Trump is doing something about it we get members of Congress screaming at government employees, members of Congress cheerleading opposition as if they are in a high school basketball gym, and lawsuits flying around like flies on a manure pile.
This problem got cranked up with the thousand page omnibus spending bills that are loaded with crap which can’t be opposed because it would result in a shutdown. And as Obama showed, a shut down would be done as maliciously as possible.
I’m really sick of the federal system. And I dislike the meat ax approach to fix it. But I don’t think we have a reasonable alternative.
Ees in dod think cuts are a bad idea. Shocker
Things need to be cut. 35 trillion in debt 35 mil in poverty. Our gov is broken
