Watch Philly in the playoffs and then tell me why he’s worth 47MM next year.
Losing basketball
Cavanaugh still around?
- Thread starter Fpeaugh2
- Start date
Losing basketball
I would have settled for "a time out"....you know, like what parents do to misbehaving children.
Got the 'misbehaving child ' spot on . . .
I think Tamar has the potential to be really good. It's up to him, though, how his story turns out. Hopefully he matures enough to realize that potential.
Does anyone know if Romeos option now is the Spurs decision to keep? I am very ignorant on rookie contracts. It would seem that the spurs would have to really like Romeo to pay him that last year of his rookie contract. Can they cut him now and not have to pay him anything?
Tamar has a KG mentality. I just dont see that not panning out with his ability. His mindset is his greats attribute, IMO. If you replaced Tamar with Romeo on that team that didn't make the tourney, Tamar could have averaged 10 + points and 30+ minutes. We are a much better team with a much better coach. Tamar is being groomed, and he will be great. No doubt in my mind.
i'm far from an expert but my take is Bates is struggling with the transition from the AAU style ball to the structured ball played in the B1G with a focus on smart shots and constant situational awareness on defense. He's not used to opponents playing sticky, Wisky style defense on him and it's making it difficult for him to get good open looks. I've watched little to no AAU ball but what I have seen tells me that, aside from blocking shots by the big men, defense really isn't a premium.
Completely agree with this take and I have seen a LOT of AAU ball. I rank AAU ball below pretty much all high school basketball. Unfortunately it is scouted extensively and that is how almost all players get their rankings now. But it is mostly incredibly bad basketball to watch and imo for the players themselves.
not worried...I think by yr 3 he's going to be very good. He still has a high school frame...could use a few more pounds of B1G muscle on him.
thanks...yes that's why I don't watch it. I have tried...mostly when an IU recruit is playing. I grew up playing in the days of motion offense before the 3 pt shot. Modern day AAU ball is often painful for me. I'd rather watch fishing shows or PGA golf. Actually...I'd rather BE fishing in 80F weather than watch anything on TV.
Boston picked up the option already, so he is locked in, Romeo in theory could opt out but why would he
Cavanaugh, Do you think that Tamar will stay at IU? My concern is that he transfers to be closer to the baby. thoughts?
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Yeah, not exactly a real smart move on his part. I can't imagine what any of you have seen to think he is going to do much of anything at IU
CAVANAGH damnit people spell it correctly. LOL
I dont think he transfers. Anything could happen, but I would be shocked if he did. I took Tamars dad to the MI game and have a good relationship with him. I think Tamar is gonna work his ass off this off season.
I would say AAU ball is more different than it is necessarily worse, than school ball.
There are a ton of different styles and philosophies being played out there in AAU ball. Just like there is in school ball. There tends to be more pressing, trapping, transition play than most school ball teams use. And there are, for sure, some really, really poorly run AAU programs. I’d contend there are quite a few really poorly run high school programs across the US too, even in Indiana.
The truly elite players have games and mindsets that can adapt and thrive in both environments.
I think we have 2 kids that thrived in the more open, pressing, transition style play that a lot of AAU games provide…and that gave them very high recruiting rankings…in Lander and Bates.
Unfortunately, neither of them have shown, with any consistency, that they can adapt and thrive in the slower paced, more structured, more set plays on offense and defense, style that school ball brings.
The rankings gurus, if they don’t already, should factor in heavily how these kids perform for their HS teams, as well as what they do at the big AAU tournaments. Lander wasn’t even the most effective player on his own team in HS. He didn’t even lead his team to a sectional title his junior year. Bates may have? I honestly don’t know. But he sure looks like he’s struggling mightily adjusting to college ball.
I’ll be shocked if he pans out at this point. He’s on a team that desperately needs a guard scorer. Is coached by an NBA guy. Yet he’s barely playing. Hes likely being asked to do things he’s never had to before. And he isn’t handling it well. A legit NBA talent would have adjusted and taken over by now.
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He’s probably one of the top 300 because he actually plays. I said 450 to be conservative. Why so many IU fans seem to hate this kid is beyond me.
Just because you hyped him into something he’s not is not his fault. Kid had one of the best freshman seasons in the history of our program. He was drafted #14. He’s making millions in the NBA. His barometer for success isn’t your distorted ceiling.
I wish I could "like" this post a thousand times. People evaluating college potential simply by watching AAU highlight videos or tracking AAU stats are often likely to be sorely disappointed. This is not an indictment on Bates. I like his potential and I think he can be a great player, but he has a learning curve to adjust to like most freshmen.
The problem with this mindset, I’ve found, is you need BOTH experiences to be really good. I can think of very few, really good HS teams, these days that aren’t led by multiple guys that play a lot of AAU ball.
The skills and experiences kids learn in AAU ball, Again for the really good ones, without question benefits the player and HS program. I get soooo sick and tired of lazy HS coaches tearing down kids that play AAU ball. Instead of leaning in, and embracing it, and helping these kids take those AAU skills and bring them into their programs.
Obviously, some kids/families will be poisoned by bad AAU programs and environments. And some HS coaches will struggle to deal with that. But for every one of those situations…there’s a HS coach that packs it back into a zone, and stalls on offense and has games played in the 30s and 40s. That is VERY common in Indiana. And many laud that as “good” basketball. Good strategy. When ultimately, it’s boring, and isn’t really helping the kids get better.
I cant imagine any HS coaches playing consistent games in 30 and 40s and not if they have a player good enough to play college. It is a good strategy at times, I remember when Bailey won the state championship, They played concord 2 years after Kemp and they had a better team, had a good lead in the 4th and all the coach needed to do was slow it down some hit some FTs and they win. Instead they lose, how did they get better from that? Maybe learned the coach wasnt real bright?
YOU need to spell your name right. : ) Hope you are right about Tamar.
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Yes AAU ball has great kids. They are basically all star teams for a region. I have zero issue with the concept overall. My issue with AAU is it is like coaches watched NBA all star games and said this is how we want to play. While entertaining, I completely disagree that this helps a kid anymore than the stalling teams you referred to above.
I have coached both AAU and high school basketball and I don’t find your statement about “lazy” high school coaches to ring true at all. In fact I would argue that there are more lazy AAU coaches than high school coaches.
Good players pretty much have to play AAU now or they will almost certainly not be recruited or rated well, especially if you are not from a top school. That doesn’t mean AAU had done anything for these kids. Those kids were gonna be great with or without AAU. For those not old enough to remember local rec centers used to have amazing basketball programs that most high school coaches were very involved in which did an outstanding job of teaching the game. Many even had summer programs. Those things have all but gone away or are done without the benefit of good players who all play AAU.
I am not against AAU in theory but am very unhappy with how it is ran. And imo it is a net negative on the game and players.
I'm not ripping on kids who play AAU, I'm ripping on people naive enough to believe that AAU success translates to NCAA success, or who comb through AAU rankings and stats for indications that kids are going to be instant difference-makers. In many states ( and sadly increasingly so in Indiana) it is the best basketball available to players.
It should be noted though, that hours spent in the gym working on individual skill are in general far more productive for the potential college player than the hours spent playing 100 games in the summer ( ask Rick Mount for his opinion on this topic some time). And anytime more than 2 games are played in the span of 24 hours, nobody is playing at a level that is beneficial.
More importantly, in good high school competition practice time to game time is about eight to one. In AAU, it's just the opposite (or worse). And good high school coaches scout you. They exploit your weaknesses and make players painfully aware of what they must work on. Furthermore, losing has consequences. You don't wait for an hour and then play again - you live with that loss for several days. You find out quickly who is really competitive and who doesn't really hate losing.
There's nothing wrong with AAU basketball as a supplement. As a replacement for individual work or high school competition, it can be a very detrimental thing for a kid with lofty goals of being a good college player or professional prospect. As I used to tell parents who felt that their kid needed AAU play in order to be "seen" (which is a huge lie told by folks who make lots of money hosting AAU tournaments), it should be remembered that being "seen" by college coaches also means that they see the holes in your game and they see the level of effort as well.
this right here (in BOLD).
You can't play D? You don't play - under Woody, anyways. Guys that don't D up aren't going to see the floor often, if ever.
Miller was supposed to be a defensive guru with the packline, but even with adjusted efficiency in KenPom he never was ranked higher than 26. Woody already has the Hoosiers top 15 and hasn't had the time to bring in guys that can fully implement his system. Wait until guys like Newton are here; it's gonna be fun.
RMK told Alford going into his Sr year "Steve...I'm going to start my 5 best defensive players...and right now....you're not one of them".
Of course, we all know RMK was bluffing (probably)...but it lit a fire under Alford's ass. And that was the goal.
in today's game, I see too many players face guarding their man 30 feet from the ball, not even looking out of the corner of their eye to see where the ball is. I thought they taught that kind of stuff in middle school ball?
I hope you are right. BUT, this is the 5th time this century I have been told, "just wait 2-3 years till Coach ------'s system is in place, it's gonna be fun". Well, after 20 years, it has not been very f%^k$n^ fun yet!
If you think woody is gonna be like Archie or Crean than he probably won’t pan out. I think we got us a head ball coach.
HELP is always on the way. Just keep repeating it until you believe it.
What is the alternative? Fire every coach who doesn’t win 25 games and get to a Final Four in year one? You would never get a coach worth a darn to take the job. It takes several years to get your guys and in some cases it takes half a decade or more to build a program. This isn’t IU at the end of the Knight era. This is IU after a mediocre (at best) 20 years. You don’t turn that completely around in year one. Sure you could go take over Duke with top 25 recruits at every single position and do it but that isn’t where we are as a program.
I was on the TB bandwagon earlier this year. There has been ZERO progress evident in live action games. I think we have a bust, boys. Sorry for the reality check for some of you. Hope I’m wrong but have watched A lot of college ball in my life. Don’t see him becoming the stud we had all hoped to see
I remember IU fans (myself included) celebrating Romeo's signing with IU. I'm glad he did and he will always be a Hoosier. He wasn't really with the team long enough to develop into the college player he might have been; coaching might have made a big difference too. Bates has plenty of time to improve and become a favorite among Hoosier fans. Longevity generally pans out well for Hoosier basketball players. I seem to recall Victor O was an average player his first year at IU but became an all time favorite of mine by the time he left.
Plenty of season remaining and an opportunity to get back to the tourney. Go Hoosiers !!!
Plenty of season remaining and an opportunity to get back to the tourney. Go Hoosiers !!!
Actually, that was the fall when they came back from the summer trip in '85. Sam (Steve's dad) told a bunch of us about it. And he said Knight was dead serious.
Would he have, in fact, not started Alford? I can tell you this: Steve never wanted to find out.
Yeah, I know - it sucks.
Like it or not, Purdue has been more consistent - especially the last 4-5 years - because of continuity. That along with the fact we've had people as coach/in administration that were incompetent has led to the lack of sustained success. Given time, Woody I truly believe can right the ship. He doesn't have a system like Archie that is more gimmicky, not does he come off as a flake to recruits and their parents like Crean. The fact this team has significant personnel deficiencies and still are where we are in mid-February speaks to the ability of this coaching staff.
was that the trip they covered recently on the B1G network? China and other places? That was a pretty cool segment. Trip down memory lane.
Sorry was off by a year. Getting old.
