Can government policy end, or significantly decrease, childhood trauma?

[BradStevens]

Childhood trauma damages society – why aren’t our leaders recognising it?

Prioritising child protection is both the right and smart thing to do.

www.aljazeera.com

I agree with a lot of this article. I think significantly reducing childhood trauma would lead to a host of better societal outcomes. I just don't know how, or if, it can be done, or if it could be, whether enough people would buy in.

From the article:

**the CDC study concluded that childhood violence is the most costly public health issue in the US, calculating that the overall costs exceeded those of cancer or heart disease. It estimated that eradicating childhood violence in the US would reduce the overall rate of depression by more than half, alcoholism by two-thirds, and suicide, serious drug abuse, and domestic violence by three-quarters. Moreover, preventing exposure to violence and abuse would significantly affect job performance, and vastly decrease the need for incarceration. In fact, about 95 percent of violent inmates suffer from childhood experiences with violence and abuse. That, of course, is not limited to the US, but is relevant to children around the world.

**Compared with girls of the same age, race and social conditions, sexually abused girls suffer from a range of profoundly negative effects: difficulties learning, depression, troubled sexual development, high rates of obesity and self-mutilation. They dropped out of school at much higher rates and had more serious medical illnesses. This study, and numerous others like it, underscore the reality that supporting high-quality early caregiving is critically important in preventing physical, social and mental health problems, regardless of traumas that occur outside the family.

**John Heckman, winner of the 2000 Nobel Prize in Economics, has shown that quality early childhood programmes that involve parents and promote basic skills in disadvantaged children more than pay for themselves in improved outcomes. Economists have calculated that every dollar invested in high-quality home visiting, daycare, and preschool programmes results in $7 in savings on welfare payments, healthcare costs, substance abuse treatment, and incarceration, plus higher tax revenues due to better-paying jobs.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

No. Probably about as effectively as it can end poverty.

 

[BradStevens]

No. Probably about as effectively as it can end poverty.

Well, govt policy has been shown to end poverty in places, even if that policy was to allow for more capitalism:

Li: Pro-Poor Development — How China Eradicated Poverty

The past forty years of reform and opening up in China have seen rapid economic growth and economic and social transformation accompanied by globally-renowned achievements in poverty reduction. Li Xiaoyun, Chair Professor of Humanities and Doctoral Supervisor at the China Agricultural...

progressive.international

According to the World Bank's poverty line of US$1.9 per person per day, there were 878 million poor people in China in 1981, and the incidence of poverty was 88.3%. By 2015, that number had fallen to 9.7 million, with an incidence of 0.7%.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Well, govt policy has been shown to end poverty in places, even if that policy was to allow for more capitalism:

Li: Pro-Poor Development — How China Eradicated Poverty

The past forty years of reform and opening up in China have seen rapid economic growth and economic and social transformation accompanied by globally-renowned achievements in poverty reduction. Li Xiaoyun, Chair Professor of Humanities and Doctoral Supervisor at the China Agricultural...

progressive.international

According to the World Bank's poverty line of US$1.9 per person per day, there were 878 million poor people in China in 1981, and the incidence of poverty was 88.3%. By 2015, that number had fallen to 9.7 million, with an incidence of 0.7%.

They couldn’t have done it without Kissingers misguided economic detente with China.

Capitalism is effective at lifting people out of poverty in its natural state, with no government policy.

 

[larsIU]

Capitalism is effective at lifting people out of poverty in its natural state, with no government policy.

 

[BradStevens]

They couldn’t have done it without Kissingers misguided economic detente with China.

Capitalism is effective at lifting people out of poverty in its natural state, with no government policy.

Govt policy is required for capitalism.

 

[snarlcakes]

Govt policy is required for capitalism.

No it’s not. It’s just more effective. And the policy is policing markets so they can be as free as possible.

 

[BradStevens]

No it’s not. It’s just more effective.

Yes, it is.

Try having a capitalist economy form or exist now without: limited liability laws, property rights, a police force and judicial system, bankruptcy protection, a stable money supply (pre-BTC, yo), patents and copyrights, banking and insurance regulation, corporate charters, or the UCC (i.e. commercial transaction laws).

 

[snarlcakes]

Yes, it is.

Nope. Not budging.

 

[BradStevens]

Nope. Not budging.

See my edit. No capitalist system developed anywhere in human history without a set of government policies in existence first that created the conditions for it to form.

Now, back to the OP: childhood trauma and what the govt can or can't do about it.

 

[snarlcakes]

See my edit. No capitalist system developed anywhere in human history without a set of government policies in existence first that created the conditions for it to form.

I’m going to see myself out of this thread. My responses have nothing to do with your initial post and I shouldn’t have derailed it. I get too excited sometimes 🤣

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Childhood trauma damages society – why aren’t our leaders recognising it?

Prioritising child protection is both the right and smart thing to do.

www.aljazeera.com

I agree with a lot of this article. I think significantly reducing childhood trauma would lead to a host of better societal outcomes. I just don't know how, or if, it can be done, or if it could be, whether enough people would buy in.

From the article:

**the CDC study concluded that childhood violence is the most costly public health issue in the US, calculating that the overall costs exceeded those of cancer or heart disease. It estimated that eradicating childhood violence in the US would reduce the overall rate of depression by more than half, alcoholism by two-thirds, and suicide, serious drug abuse, and domestic violence by three-quarters. Moreover, preventing exposure to violence and abuse would significantly affect job performance, and vastly decrease the need for incarceration. In fact, about 95 percent of violent inmates suffer from childhood experiences with violence and abuse. That, of course, is not limited to the US, but is relevant to children around the world.

**Compared with girls of the same age, race and social conditions, sexually abused girls suffer from a range of profoundly negative effects: difficulties learning, depression, troubled sexual development, high rates of obesity and self-mutilation. They dropped out of school at much higher rates and had more serious medical illnesses. This study, and numerous others like it, underscore the reality that supporting high-quality early caregiving is critically important in preventing physical, social and mental health problems, regardless of traumas that occur outside the family.

**John Heckman, winner of the 2000 Nobel Prize in Economics, has shown that quality early childhood programmes that involve parents and promote basic skills in disadvantaged children more than pay for themselves in improved outcomes. Economists have calculated that every dollar invested in high-quality home visiting, daycare, and preschool programmes results in $7 in savings on welfare payments, healthcare costs, substance abuse treatment, and incarceration, plus higher tax revenues due to better-paying jobs.

The Communist Manifesto looked great on paper

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Can’t have a decrease is childhood violence without return to the nuclear family. It doesn’t make everything perfect but it was a hell of a lot better than the fractured homes we have now

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Childhood trauma damages society – why aren’t our leaders recognising it?

Prioritising child protection is both the right and smart thing to do.

www.aljazeera.com

I agree with a lot of this article. I think significantly reducing childhood trauma would lead to a host of better societal outcomes. I just don't know how, or if, it can be done, or if it could be, whether enough people would buy in.

From the article:

**the CDC study concluded that childhood violence is the most costly public health issue in the US, calculating that the overall costs exceeded those of cancer or heart disease. It estimated that eradicating childhood violence in the US would reduce the overall rate of depression by more than half, alcoholism by two-thirds, and suicide, serious drug abuse, and domestic violence by three-quarters. Moreover, preventing exposure to violence and abuse would significantly affect job performance, and vastly decrease the need for incarceration. In fact, about 95 percent of violent inmates suffer from childhood experiences with violence and abuse. That, of course, is not limited to the US, but is relevant to children around the world.

**Compared with girls of the same age, race and social conditions, sexually abused girls suffer from a range of profoundly negative effects: difficulties learning, depression, troubled sexual development, high rates of obesity and self-mutilation. They dropped out of school at much higher rates and had more serious medical illnesses. This study, and numerous others like it, underscore the reality that supporting high-quality early caregiving is critically important in preventing physical, social and mental health problems, regardless of traumas that occur outside the family.

**John Heckman, winner of the 2000 Nobel Prize in Economics, has shown that quality early childhood programmes that involve parents and promote basic skills in disadvantaged children more than pay for themselves in improved outcomes. Economists have calculated that every dollar invested in high-quality home visiting, daycare, and preschool programmes results in $7 in savings on welfare payments, healthcare costs, substance abuse treatment, and incarceration, plus higher tax revenues due to better-paying jobs.

I see nothing wrong with finding several cities with very similar childhood violence rates and run pilot programs in half. In 20 years we should have answers.

 

[BradStevens]

The Communist Manifesto looked great on paper

I don't understand this response.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

I don't understand this response.

I mean the government trying to create programs to end childhood violence would be another governmental over reach with massive expense and absolutely no benefit. Social problems require community solutions. Not government

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Can’t have a decrease is childhood violence without return to the nuclear family. It doesn’t make everything perfect but it was a hell of a lot better than the fractured homes we have now

I posted a link a while back, nuclear families are nearly a mistake. The best answer has always been grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, family friends that go back generations. We have been trying to stick a round peg into a square hole.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I see nothing wrong with finding several cities with very similar childhood violence rates and run pilot programs in half. In 20 years we should have answers.

We should be doing this with countless projects and programs

 

[snarlcakes]

We should be doing this with countless projects and programs

If the “we” is the Dream Team and Brad’s band of buddies, sign me up for it. If it’s the government,

 

[BradStevens]

If the “we” is the Dream Team and Brad’s band of buddies, sign me up for it. If it’s the government,

I'm so using the Triple Bs (although I prefer Triple Ds).

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Capitalism is effective at lifting people out of poverty in its natural state, with no government policy.

Not according to the history of capitalism.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

Not according to the history of capitalism.

Ancient Rome and Ancient Athens operated capitalist societies with a far lighter touch than ours. And those empires lasted far longer than the U.S. will last on its current trajectory.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Ancient Rome and Ancient Athens operated capitalist societies with a far lighter touch than ours. And those empires lasted far longer than the U.S. will last on its current trajectory.

LOL.

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

LOL.

I would expect such a response from those averse to the Judeo-Christian Capitalist enterprise.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I would expect such a response from those averse to the Judeo-Christian Capitalist enterprise.

You realize you just completely contradicted your previous post.

(Somehow, they were both wrong, which is impressive.)

 

[ChicagoFineForNow]

You realize you just completely contradicted your previous post.

(Somehow, they were both wrong, which is impressive.)

Those societies were largely agnostic or religiously indifferent, but they weren’t hostile to religion and they weren’t discriminatory to other religions.

The truth is a Judeo-Christian Orthoxoy is probably the best path forward for the U.S. and Western society more generally.

Not all great societies operate exactly the same but as we’ve cast off those strictures we have a in-mistakenly deteriorated.

 

[BradStevens]

Ancient Rome and Ancient Athens operated capitalist societies with a far lighter touch than ours. And those empires lasted far longer than the U.S. will last on its current trajectory.

This post, even if true and you were using an accepted definition of capitalist, doesn't help your argument for three reasons:

1. The U.S. has less poverty than ancient Rome and Athens.

2. As far as I know, there's no good proof showing Ancient Rome and Athens had a lower percentage of impoverished people than other ancient or medieval civilizations.

3. Going back to the original point, both ancient Rome and Athens had governments, courts, and laws that allowed for some free trade and markets to exist. They wouldn't count as "natural state." Not even sure Hobbes or Rousseau thought capitalism was in the mythical "state of nature."

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Ancient Rome and Ancient Athens operated capitalist societies with a far lighter touch than ours. And those empires lasted far longer than the U.S. will last on its current trajectory.

And Rome had welfare.

Cura annonae - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[BradStevens]

Those societies were largely agnostic or religiously indifferent, but they weren’t hostile to religion and they weren’t discriminatory to other religions.

The truth is a Judeo-Christian Orthoxoy is probably the best path forward for the U.S. and Western society more generally.

Not all great societies operate exactly the same but as we’ve cast off those strictures we have a in-mistakenly deteriorated.

1. I don't think the United States in the 21st Century is a society "hostile to religion" and "discriminatory" to other religions, and certainly not more so than Rome. Here is a type of counter-example (that you, as a Catholic, know all-too-well) that is unimaginable in the 21st Century U.S.:

Persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Maybe you're only referring to the Roman Republic? I'll have to do some searching on that. I understand they weren't universalists (unlike Catholicism and Islam) and were more tolerant than most other ancient societies, but that doesn't mean they were more tolerant than we are today.

2. While today's Judeo-Christian world is religiously tolerant, the history of the religion is violently oppressive. Here's one counter-example of many (given your age, I'm not sure if you've seen this movie. I highly recommend it):



3. It's arguable that the United States and the West are still, at heart, operating with a Judeo-Christian morality. Here's a debate on the subject:



For all these points, I think you'd really like Tom Holland's Dominion (the subject of the linked debate). Even if you don't agree with his conclusions--I have a lot of reservations myself--it's a great history and thought provoking. Maybe we'll add it to the Water Cooler Book Club and you can join. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Willdog7]

Protecting our children should be our number 1 priority. Childhood hunger, safe neighborhoods, child abuse, getting a quality education and keeping the adult predators away are some of the issues.

 

[BradStevens]

Protecting our children should be our number 1 priority. Childhood hunger, safe neighborhoods, child abuse, getting a quality education and keeping the adult predators away are some of the issues.

It’s telling that when this account responds seriously, there are no typos, misspellings, double periods, ridiculous grammar gaffes, etc.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

It’s telling that when this account responds seriously, there are no typos, misspellings, double periods, ridiculous grammar gaffes, etc.

BUSTED!!!!!😂😂😂😂

 

[LifelongIU77]

Childhood trauma damages society – why aren’t our leaders recognising it?

Prioritising child protection is both the right and smart thing to do.

www.aljazeera.com

I agree with a lot of this article. I think significantly reducing childhood trauma would lead to a host of better societal outcomes. I just don't know how, or if, it can be done, or if it could be, whether enough people would buy in.

From the article:

**the CDC study concluded that childhood violence is the most costly public health issue in the US, calculating that the overall costs exceeded those of cancer or heart disease. It estimated that eradicating childhood violence in the US would reduce the overall rate of depression by more than half, alcoholism by two-thirds, and suicide, serious drug abuse, and domestic violence by three-quarters. Moreover, preventing exposure to violence and abuse would significantly affect job performance, and vastly decrease the need for incarceration. In fact, about 95 percent of violent inmates suffer from childhood experiences with violence and abuse. That, of course, is not limited to the US, but is relevant to children around the world.

**Compared with girls of the same age, race and social conditions, sexually abused girls suffer from a range of profoundly negative effects: difficulties learning, depression, troubled sexual development, high rates of obesity and self-mutilation. They dropped out of school at much higher rates and had more serious medical illnesses. This study, and numerous others like it, underscore the reality that supporting high-quality early caregiving is critically important in preventing physical, social and mental health problems, regardless of traumas that occur outside the family.

**John Heckman, winner of the 2000 Nobel Prize in Economics, has shown that quality early childhood programmes that involve parents and promote basic skills in disadvantaged children more than pay for themselves in improved outcomes. Economists have calculated that every dollar invested in high-quality home visiting, daycare, and preschool programmes results in $7 in savings on welfare payments, healthcare costs, substance abuse treatment, and incarceration, plus higher tax revenues due to better-paying jobs.

Problem being, a lot of childhood trauma stems directly from lack of parenting,or parents at all. Government policy expedited this. I seriously doubt they want to fix it,considering they then would have to admit fault,and change course.

 

[Willdog7]

Problem being, a lot of childhood trauma stems directly from lack of parenting,or parents at all. Government policy expedited this. I seriously doubt they want to fix it,considering they then would have to admit fault,and change course.

You can be a good parent and live in a bad neighborhood, or have to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Gangs do not consider if you are a bad parent or not or that wayward uncle or stepdad or that pedophile in Houston or trumps spiritual advisor being with 12-year-old girls. My message is to protect our children, this message is lost by both parties.

 

[LifelongIU77]

You can be a good parent and live in a bad neighborhood, or have to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Gangs do not consider if you are a bad parent or not or that wayward uncle or stepdad or that pedophile in Houston or trumps spiritual advisor being with 12-year-old girls. My message is to protect our children, this message is lost by both parties.

Hahahaha...work 2 jobs to make ends meet,while being a single parent,said the guy who most likely never had,or was a parent in this situation. That's what leads kids to gangs in the first place. Stop paying people to have kids,and start educating the ones who are already in need.

 

[Willdog7]

Hahahaha...work 2 jobs to make ends meet,while being a single parent,said the guy who most likely never had,or was a parent in this situation. That's what leads kids to gangs in the first place. Stop paying people to have kids,and start educating the ones who are already in need.

You do not know me. My dad worked in the steel mills, who died when I was 6. 2 many damn hours killed a lot of fathers. A typical white person always ASSuming. You do not know shit. Those greedy ass white bosses. Segregation, Discrimination, racism Red-lining, unable to get quality loans, homes in good neighborhoods, good jobs .

 

[LifelongIU77]

You do not know me. My dad worked in the steel mills, who died when I was 6. 2 many damn hours killed a lot of fathers. A typical white person always ASSuming. You do not know shit. Those greedy ass white bosses. Segregation, Discrimination, racism Red-lining, unable to get quality loans, homes in good neighborhoods, good jobs .

So you realize that being a single parent and trying to make ends meet,while still having time to be good at parenting is almost impossible. Glad we agree.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

So you realize that being a single parent and trying to make ends meet,while still having time to be good at parenting is almost impossible. Glad we agree.

I know several guys and girls that are single parents that work their ass off to supply for their kid(s) that are fantastic parents.

 

[Willdog7]

So you realize that being a single parent and trying to make ends meet,while still having time to be good at parenting is almost impossible. Glad we agree.

It is not impossible you just have to do it. I was raised by a single mom. Good times, bad times I appreciated all she did for us.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I know several guys and girls that are single parents that work their ass off to supply for their kid(s) that are fantastic parents.

Great. Statistically that isn't the case though. You will be hard pressed to find any study that shows kids from single parent homes outperforming those from intact families on a host of quality of life measures. There are some that do alright and get by, probably some that even excel, but on the whole it isn't optimal.

(I know a smoker who lived to be 90 isn't an argument that smoking is something that should be supported, same here.)