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As it relates to “driving while black” etc. that’s a different story.

If 10 white guys are driving high on drugs and 10 black guys are driving high on drugs, and you are a cop inclined to the "driving while black" interrogation,

you will think that only blacks are driving high on drugs, and those are the people that you will end up shooting.

If you believe that driving while black is real, I don't see why you can't extrapolate the consequences.

Incidentally, I did not think driving while black was real, until I had a black housemate, in Bloomington, in the late 80s. It was so real that my eyes were opened wide, though I was a staunch Reaganite in those days.
 
If 10 white guys are driving high on drugs and 10 black guys are driving high on drugs, and you are a cop inclined to the "driving while black" interrogation,

you will think that only blacks are driving high on drugs, and those are the people that you will end up shooting.

If you believe that driving while black is real, I don't see why you can't extrapolate the consequences.

Incidentally, I did not think driving while black was real, until I had a black housemate, in Bloomington, in the late 80s. It was so real that my eyes were opened wide, though I was a staunch Reaganite in those days.
Because I don’t have to extrapolate. I can look at the actual data. What’s more I suspect what you know about police work could fit on the tip of a pin.
 
Because I don’t have to extrapolate. I can look at the actual data. What’s more I suspect what you know about police work could fit on the tip of a pin.
Don't you think I could ask my uncle about it, my cousin, my wife's brother-in-law? I know a fair amount, and have learned a bit in my 57 years on this oblate spheroid. The most racist relative that I know is a retired cop, but I am aware that this is just an anecdote.
 
Don't you think I could ask my uncle about it, my cousin, my wife's brother-in-law? I know a fair amount, and have learned a bit in my 57 years on this oblate spheroid. The most racist relative that I know is a retired cop, but I am aware that this is just an anecdote.
Is your wife zeke?
 
Couldn’t care less if the NBA closed its doors forever. Couldn’t name but a handful of players in the entire league. True story: I was trying to think of the players on my adopted hometown Houston Rockets the other day. James Hardin and Eric Gordon - prolly cuz he played at IU - were the only two I could think of. Really don’t think I could name 6 NBA players total, but again, would mostly be IU players I knew made it the league.

NBA is just not a product I care for.

Carry on.
 
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Couldn’t care less if the NBA closed its doors forever. Couldn’t name but a handful of players in the entire league. True story: I was trying to think of the players on my adopted hometown Houston Rockets the other day. James Hardin and Eric Gordon - prolly cuz he played at IU - were the only two I could think of. Really don’t think I could name 6 NBA players total, but again, would mostly be IU players I knew made it the league.

NBA is just not a product I care for.

Carry on.
Good story.
 
Any arrest? Even a petty arrest just for the purpose of exercising control - keeping folks in their place?

This would be an illegal arrest. But yes, even then.

Your authoritarian streak reeks in every post you make, doc. You have no sense of freedom for anybody but authorities.
Authoritarian. Damn, that hurts.
Your microscopic chances of getting killed in one of the millions of police/public interactions that happen each year go up at something like 1,000 percent if you resist. It’s just never advisable. That’s the truth.
If the focus is on saving black lives, that should be the loudest message.
 
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This would be an illegal arrest. But yes, even then.


Authoritarian. Damn, that hurts.
Your microscopic chances of getting killed in one of the millions of police/public interactions that happen each year go up at something like 1,000 percent if you resist. It’s just never advisable. That’s the truth.
If the focus is on saving black lives, that should be the loudest message.
Excuse me? Do you have any idea what effect going into the justice system has on one's life? It's damning. That's why so many Black folks are willing to risk getting killed when a petty arrest is being made.
 
Excuse me? Do you have any idea what effect going into the justice system has on one's life? It's damning. That's why so many Black folks are willing to risk getting killed when a petty arrest is being made.
Excuse me? How is resisting arrest EVER a better option?

Going into the justice system can lead to poor results, but resisting arrest ALWAYS does.
 
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Excuse me? How is resisting arrest EVER a better option?

Going into the justice system can lead to poor results, but resisting arrest ALWAYS does.
Resisting arrest can be a better option when your life would be over because of the arrest. Hell, you're one who cites all of the priors to "shame" a victim of police violence with a "they deserved it" argument. All I need to do is point to you for reason enough to resist arrest.
 
Resisting arrest can be a better option when your life would be over because of the arrest. Hell, you're one who cites all of the priors to "shame" a victim of police violence with a "they deserved it" argument. All I need to do is point to you for reason enough to resist arrest.
Resisting arrest is never a better option.
 
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Sez you, Mr. former St. Louis cop attorney. Risk analysis from your perch is very different from risk analysis on the ground by those being arrested for a broken tail light or less . . . .
if something worse doesn't happen in the throes of resisting it will when they get ya - and they eventually will. whether it's new additional charges or increased probation violation sentencing. always better to just deal with it sope
 
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Couldn’t care less if the NBA closed its doors forever. Couldn’t name but a handful of players in the entire league. True story: I was trying to think of the players on my adopted hometown Houston Rockets the other day. James Hardin and Eric Gordon - prolly cuz he played at IU - were the only two I could think of. Really don’t think I could name 6 NBA players total, but again, would mostly be IU players I knew made it the league.

NBA is just not a product I care for.

Carry on.
Just wanna take a minute to thank y'all for sending Clint Capela to the Hawks last year, in essence in exchange for a 2nd round pick and taking on Nene's contract (he's now retired). Looking forward to see what he can do with and for Trae Young!
 
if something worse doesn't happen in the throes of resisting it will when they get ya - and they eventually will. whether it's new additional charges or increased probation violation sentencing. always better to just deal with it sope
From a police state/authoritarian perspective, I agree. I'm just saying that the police state/authoritarian approach is wrong to begin with.

BTW, I had a family member off the chain in the St. Louis 'burbs about a month ago. For reasons I won't go into here, I called the local police for a welfare check . . . he wasn't a threat to himself or anyone else, and yet they arrested him . . . now what should have been a mental health intervention has become a show of force by law enforcement . . . why?

This is the type of stuff that underlies the call for defunding the police . . . move some police department funds to someone who has the expertise and will to do the right thing rather than the old "impose control". If the only tool a guy has is a hammer, everything looks like a nail . . . and we only give police officers hammers . . . we simply need more tools . . . .

BTW2, I don't doubt the same result would have happened in 99% of the jurisdictions in the US. That's my point . . . the police are asked to do stuff they're not qualified to do . . . with bad results more often than not.
 
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From a police state/authoritarian perspective, I agree. I'm just saying that the police state/authoritarian approach is wrong to begin with.

BTW, I had a family member off the chain in the St. Louis 'burbs about a month ago. For reasons I won't go into here, I called the local police for a welfare check . . . he wasn't a threat to himself or anyone else, and yet they arrested him . . . now what should have been a mental health intervention has become a show of force by law enforcement . . . why?

This is the type of stuff that underlies the call for defunding the police . . . move those funds to someone who has the expertise and will to do the right thing rather than the old "impose control". If the only tool a guy has is a hammer, everything looks like a nail . . . and we only give police officers hammers . . . we simply need more tools . . . .

BTW, I don't doubt the same result would have happened in 99% of the jurisdictions in the US. That's my point . . . the police are asked to do stuff they're not qualified to do . . . with bad results more often than not.
That's so crummy. i'm sorry to hear that. and as you know in this area with 90 munis or whatever it is in the burbs it's honestly super hit or miss on what you'll get in terms of cop response depending on the muni. so now on top of not doing a wellness you have an aggravating situation to deal with during covid where half the courts aren't even running. ugh.
 
That's so crummy. i'm sorry to hear that. and as you know in this area with 90 munis or whatever it is in the burbs it's honestly super hit or miss on what you'll get in terms of cop response depending on the muni. so now on top of not doing a wellness you have an aggravating situation to deal with during covid where half the courts aren't even running. ugh.
Bingo. St. Charles County . . . .

And this is why some folks make a decision to resist arrest . . . it's a descending staircase every time.
 
Why would you get arrested for a busted tail light?
Let's say 4 cars are carrying drugs. Only one, you, has a black driver and a busted tail light, so you get stopped, the drugs are spotted, an an arrest is made.

You deserved to get busted, I am not denying that. But so did the whities in their nice cars.

The police stats say, though, that the only drug dealer that we arrested today was black.
 
Shorter TD: "Long live the status quo."
Typical weak answer, I should expect nothing less from you. lol

Here is your status quo, if a hard working American who has the ability to think for him or herself give a crap about what NBA basketball players think about a situation then shame on them.
 
You are expendable. An elite, pro athlete is not.
Everyone is expendable, quite frankly it depends on the bottom line revenue an individual brings to the table. Lebron can spew his crap all day with no ramifications, let Juan Morgan do it and if it brought bad light to the Jazz he is probably playing in Uganda next season.
 
From a police state/authoritarian perspective, I agree. I'm just saying that the police state/authoritarian approach is wrong to begin with.

BTW, I had a family member off the chain in the St. Louis 'burbs about a month ago. For reasons I won't go into here, I called the local police for a welfare check . . . he wasn't a threat to himself or anyone else, and yet they arrested him . . . now what should have been a mental health intervention has become a show of force by law enforcement . . . why?

This is the type of stuff that underlies the call for defunding the police . . . move some police department funds to someone who has the expertise and will to do the right thing rather than the old "impose control". If the only tool a guy has is a hammer, everything looks like a nail . . . and we only give police officers hammers . . . we simply need more tools . . . .

BTW2, I don't doubt the same result would have happened in 99% of the jurisdictions in the US. That's my point . . . the police are asked to do stuff they're not qualified to do . . . with bad results more often than not.
That’s a really weird, long winded way to say “you’re right, man. Resisting arrest is never a better option.”
 
Resisting arrest can be a better option when your life would be over because of the arrest. Hell, you're one who cites all of the priors to "shame" a victim of police violence with a "they deserved it" argument. All I need to do is point to you for reason enough to resist arrest.
This is just blatant lying. And it’s not appreciated.
I’ve never argued that anyone deserved to die, for any reason.

You’re pulling a lot of crap out of your ass in this thread.
 
Because I don’t have to extrapolate. I can look at the actual data. What’s more I suspect what you know about police work could fit on the tip of a pin.
I haven't been sure where to dump this, but I'll do it here, since it's related to your discussion on statistics re: racial disparities in police interactions and outcomes. It ultimately comes down to the claim that poor outcomes for black interactions with police are roughly proportional to blacks' share of violent crime commission.

But do we really know if that's true? What we're really measuring isn't the violent crime rate, but the arrest rate. Isn't it possible that those two numbers don't match up? Here's my thinking. First, many police departments put extra resources into policing high-crime areas. We'd expect them to do that, of course. Second, however, for numerous reasons, there is quite a bit of overlap between high-crime areas and minority (especially black) populations. This could create a positive feedback loop, wherein the arrest rate disparity actually surpasses the crime commission disparity. This, in turn, would naturally adversely affect the relationship of the police and those communities, and further the distrust that members of those communities harbor when they find themselves in a police interaction.

In other words, everything you're saying could be true, and it could also be true that the perceived racial disparity is rooted in a real phenomenon. And to make it worse, this real phenomenon could arise even if none of the members of a particular police force are racist, and they are all performing their duties with the utmost professionalism. It would simply be the unfortunate natural consequence of the fact that we live in a country where predictors of criminal activity - poverty, lack of education, etc. - happen to have a statistically significant correlation with race.
 
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I haven't been sure where to dump this, but I'll do it here, since it's related to your discussion on statistics re: racial disparities in police interactions and outcomes. It ultimately comes down to the claim that poor outcomes for black interactions with police are roughly proportional to blacks' share of violent crime commission.

But do we really know if that's true? What we're really measuring isn't the violent crime rate, but the arrest rate. Isn't it possible that those two numbers don't match up? Here's my thinking. First, many police departments put extra resources into policing high-crime areas. We'd expect them to do that, of course. Second, however, for numerous reasons, there is quite a bit of overlap between high-crime areas and minority (especially black) populations. This could create a positive feedback loop, wherein the arrest rate disparity actually surpasses the crime commission disparity. This, in turn, would naturally adversely affect the relationship of the police and those communities, and further the distrust that members of those communities harbor when they find themselves in a police interaction.

In other words, everything you're saying could be true, and it could also be true that the perceived racial disparity is rooted in a real phenomenon. And to make it worse, this real phenomenon could arise even if none of the members of a particular police force are racist, and they are all performing their duties with the utmost professionalism. It would simply be the unfortunate natural consequence of the fact that we live in a country where predictors of criminal activity - poverty, lack of education, etc. - happen to have a statistically significant correlation with race.
Right. Not that the actions of cops are racist but that the actions of cops have a disparate impact on a race. This is a more palatable message.
 
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I haven't been sure where to dump this, but I'll do it here, since it's related to your discussion on statistics re: racial disparities in police interactions and outcomes. It ultimately comes down to the claim that poor outcomes for black interactions with police are roughly proportional to blacks' share of violent crime commission.

But do we really know if that's true? What we're really measuring isn't the violent crime rate, but the arrest rate. Isn't it possible that those two numbers don't match up? Here's my thinking. First, many police departments put extra resources into policing high-crime areas. We'd expect them to do that, of course. Second, however, for numerous reasons, there is quite a bit of overlap between high-crime areas and minority (especially black) populations. This could create a positive feedback loop, wherein the arrest rate disparity actually surpasses the crime commission disparity. This, in turn, would naturally adversely affect the relationship of the police and those communities, and further the distrust that members of those communities harbor when they find themselves in a police interaction.

In other words, everything you're saying could be true, and it could also be true that the perceived racial disparity is rooted in a real phenomenon. And to make it worse, this real phenomenon could arise even if none of the members of a particular police force are racist, and they are all performing their duties with the utmost professionalism. It would simply be the unfortunate natural consequence of the fact that we live in a country where predictors of criminal activity - poverty, lack of education, etc. - happen to have a statistically significant correlation with race.

This also doesn't take into account how discretion is used. I've been let off with a speeding ticket when I was an idiot in college driving with expired stickers and forgot my license at home. That easily could have been an arrest and something on my record. The same happens with domestic violence for instance, there's some level of discretion when deciding whether to make an arrest or not. It doesn't take intent, nor does it take a lot of differential between how that discretion is used to add up to a big miss on what the statistics tell you vs. what is actually happening.
 
This is just blatant lying. And it’s not appreciated.
I’ve never argued that anyone deserved to die, for any reason.

You’re pulling a lot of crap out of your ass in this thread.
Shorter Hoopsdoc: "You disagree with me, so I'm going to throw another tantrum."

Have at it little man . . . .
 
Shorter Hoopsdoc: "You disagree with me, so I'm going to throw another tantrum."

Have at it little man . . . .
Shorter Sope: I made an incredibly dumb argument and then made some baseless accusations and since I can’t back up either, I’ll just say he’s mad. I WIN!!

Well done.
 
Shorter Sope: I made an incredibly dumb argument and then made some baseless accusations and since I can’t back up either, I’ll just say he’s mad. I WIN!!

Well done.
Nope. I made finely nuanced arguments that you can't understand because you're stuck with a coarse authoritarian perspective on people. Good luck with that, doc . . . .
 
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