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Biden dropping out. Wow. Faster than I thought.

So if King George just had Bitcoin we would all be singing God Save the King?
Yes.
Very little has changed since the old days. The worst US inflation ever was during the Revolution (still on gold), and the worst more modern was 1917 (still on gold).
I agree. Empires have been rising and falling as their money goes to shit. The U.S. is currently having this issue.
While the last couple years have not been good inflationary, some inflation is good. I know you don't believe it. But if you actually work for a living, I bet you want to earn more money next year than this. If so, that's inflationary. If my boss gives me 3% more next year, that 3% has to come from somewhere and probably not from their personal wealth. The entire system is designed to have some inflation.
Inflation is awful. It allows the Governments to steal from their citizens. It’s the main driver of wealth inequality we have and is creating a Feudal Society. Currently 40% of Americans get Government subsidies/transfers in excess of what they pay in taxes. Also, the inflation rate is much higher than the stated 2-3% CPI.

I’ll say it again. The natural state of a free market is deflationary. It has to be. Prices should be dropping with productivity gains. Everything should be getting 3-5% cheaper every year. Bitcoin is doing this by the way. Prices are falling. This is why it’s inevitable. Most people just haven’t figured it out, yet.
 
I don't know if I would call it isolationism today. Biden isn't showing much interest in retreating into Fortress America.

In Russia's case, I believe they thought we would not have time to respond to stop them from a fait accompli. They expected us to retaliate with various economic sanctions as with Crimea, but note those sanctions never forced Russia out of Crimea. But they expected their initial invasion to cause Z's government to fall and a rapid surrender.

I think Hamas follows the typical COIN playbook, opportunity attacks and hope the opponent overreacts and drives a wedge between the opponent and others. They may have thought Biden would be easier to be driven from supporting Israel, I can't say. I am not sure how accurate that assessment would have been given Biden had a long history of being pretty accepting of Israel. Heck, Biden has called himself a Zionist.

Let's focus on Russia here -- because I think it's a more classical geopolitical situation than Israel is.

You wrote:

They expected us to retaliate with various economic sanctions as with Crimea, but note those sanctions never forced Russia out of Crimea.

I would agree with this -- but I think it also exposes the problem. We're willing to take some actions to resist Russia's regional expansionism. But that willingness clearly only extends so far. Sanctions and other economic measures? Sure. Military aid? OK, for a while anyway.

Has it worked? Not from what I've seen. And I don't have any reason to think that it eventually will if we just keep doing what we've been doing.

So the problem is that we're willing to do something, but (apparently) not enough to actually achieve what we say is our objective.

I don't think the appetite has ever been there for direct military engagement with Russia. For one thing, they're a nuclear power and that matters -- a lot. For another, rightly or wrongly, many people just don't see a great deal of national interest here. And people are still war weary from our decades in Iraq and Afghanistan.

To me, we basically have three choices:
  1. We continue what we've been doing and hope that we eventually grind Russia down to the point where they turn tail
  2. We broker an armistice that likely ends up with Russia keeping territorial gains in Donbas (but exiting from the parts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts they still occupy).
  3. We double-down and escalate our level of engagement
Personally, I'm in favor of #2, as long as it's paired with measures to deter any future Russian aggression. They aren't going to like those, of course. But there's always option #3.
 
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Answer the question
What was the question? Do I think we should be supporting Ukraine? NO. That ship sailed long ago when there was an agreement on the table and for some reason it disappeared. Ukraine and Russia have their own history and its got nothing to do with us. Ukraine will never be a NATO country (something I'm not sold on anymore either) and all we're doing is fueling thousands of dead bodies contributing to this BS. The whole thing could have been avoided but here we are. If Putin really wanted to end this he could press a button and it would be over. Ukraine is NEVER going to defeat Russia Period! The ongoing, unnecessary dead body count just keeps MIC factories open and they don't care about human life anyways they manufacture ARMS for Gods sakes.
 
Yes.

I agree. Empires have been rising and falling as their money goes to shit. The U.S. is currently having this issue.

Inflation is awful. It allows the Governments to steal from their citizens. It’s the main driver of wealth inequality we have and is creating a Feudal Society. Currently 40% of Americans get Government subsidies/transfers in excess of what they pay in taxes. Also, the inflation rate is much higher than the stated 2-3% CPI.

I’ll say it again. The natural state of a free market is deflationary. It has to be. Prices should be dropping with productivity gains. Everything should be getting 3-5% cheaper every year. Bitcoin is doing this by the way. Prices are falling. This is why it’s inevitable. Most people just haven’t figured it out, yet.

Prices do drop, go buy a giant TV today and compare it to 15 years ago.

What happens if technology offsets much of the drop. You can buy a computer today for $800 which would blow out of the water any $1500 machine 10 years ago.

Cars, look at all the options on cars today. I am happy to roll my own windows up and down, almost impossible to find in a new car. All new cars have a backup camera, most didn't have them 12 years ago. Most now have some form of lane assist, software to demobilize engines if attempted theft, GPS. They keep cramming all this in to keep the prices up (and maybe no one wants to be the luddite rolling up their windows but me). But a car without air conditioning, no lane/parking assistance, no cameras, no GPS, etc, would sell very cheaply.

Shoes, there are cheap tennis shoes but Hoka came around and had huge growth saying to heck with minimalism, we will cushion the hell out of these things. They are some of the most expensive shoes out there, and sell incredibly well

Which leads to the story below. It is true one can buy cheap, I have done so for much of my life. But cheap clothes, cheap furniture, etc, costs more in the long run. Craftsmanship costs more up front.

 
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I don't understand why anyone would want to get on national TV in front of the whole nation and make an ass of themselvves. At least Biden has a reason whereas Trump is just naturally an ass all the time no matter where he is. I know two people at the moment that have gone downhill like Biden and it's amazing how quickly they declined.
 
You're the only one I ever call out because you are all time calling out other people.
Hick attempting insults...

1*AeF39_6P4Q4Nj8R9kUrfQg.gif
 
Prices do drop, go buy a giant TV today and compare it to 15 years ago.

What happens if technology offsets much of the drop. You can buy a computer today for $800 which would blow out of the water any $1500 machine 10 years ago.

Cars, look at all the options on cars today. I am happy to roll my own windows up and down, almost impossible to find in a new car. All new cars have a backup camera, most didn't have them 12 years ago. Most now have some form of lane assist, software to demobilize engines if attempted theft, GPS. They keep cramming all this in to keep the prices up (and maybe no one wants to be the luddite rolling up their windows but me). But a car without air conditioning, no lane/parking assistance, no cameras, no GPS, etc, would sell very cheaply.

Shoes, there are cheap tennis shoes but Hoka came around and had huge growth saying to heck with minimalism, we will cushion the hell out of these things. They are some of the most expensive shoes out there, and sell incredibly well

Which leads to the story below. It is true one can buy cheap, I have done so for much of my life. But cheap clothes, cheap furniture, etc, costs more in the long run. Craftsmanship costs more up front.


I'm willing to accept some of what's in that piece, so long as I can examine specific cases in detail -- as opposed to just looking at "poor people" (or "rich people", for that matter) as a monolith.

Personally, I tend to believe that a lot of people make a lot of bad decisions, lifestyle choices, etc. And I'd say this is a much bigger problem for people who struggle financially than the cost of boots.

Why do I believe this? Well, I've been in casinos -- I live near one, and have them as a pretty significant customer. I'll be willing to bet anybody I see sitting at those slot machines that I'll make more money off the casino over my lifetime than they will over theirs. And they'd probably take that bet, too.
 
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Yes.

I agree. Empires have been rising and falling as their money goes to shit. The U.S. is currently having this issue.

Inflation is awful. It allows the Governments to steal from their citizens. It’s the main driver of wealth inequality we have and is creating a Feudal Society. Currently 40% of Americans get Government subsidies/transfers in excess of what they pay in taxes. Also, the inflation rate is much higher than the stated 2-3% CPI.

I’ll say it again. The natural state of a free market is deflationary. It has to be. Prices should be dropping with productivity gains. Everything should be getting 3-5% cheaper every year. Bitcoin is doing this by the way. Prices are falling. This is why it’s inevitable. Most people just haven’t figured it out, yet.

Food is the most basic item and it has become cheaper over the long term. 100 years ago Americans spent 25% of their income on food. Now it is under 10%.
 
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I'm willing to accept some of what's in that piece, so long as I can examine specific cases in detail -- as opposed to just looking at "poor people" (or "rich people", for that matter) as a monolith.

Personally, I tend to believe that a lot of people make a lot of bad decisions, lifestyle choices, etc. And I'd say this is a much bigger problem for people who struggle financially than the cost of boots.

Why do I believe this? Well, I've been in casinos -- I live near one, and have them as a pretty significant customer. I'll be willing to bet anybody I see sitting at those slot machines that I'll make more money off the casino over my lifetime than they will over theirs. And they'd probably take that bet, too.

Anyone playing slots is just counting on blind luck to win, much like the lottery. All the games in a casino are weighted to the house, but at least the others offer opportunities for the smart player to counter at least some of that. Plus of course the slots can offer a lower cost entry point than most games that require a dealer.

I agree there are a lot of choices that make people go good or bad, financially. But things like that story show how people who cannot afford more can be forced to spend more. It isn't just the boots, people who cannot afford any insurance can get destroyed by one fall. Now why they can't afford insurance can be a problem (maybe they enjoy the slot machines too much). But there are legitimately hard workers who do not make much money. We just had our gutters replaced on Friday, roofers tend to be the least health insured profession and tend not to have a high salary. And they weren't lazy. So that's a group that might well buy boots that wear out faster, or a car with a spotty reliability record, because that is what they can afford.

Frankly a lot of this should be taught in school. How to think about true cost of ownership. Are the $15 jeans really a bargain, same for the $1500 car. More expensive by itself isn't a good indicator, a lot of pricey Italian cars are only capable of driving to and from the mechanic.
 

I don't understand why anyone would want to get on national TV in front of the whole nation and make an ass of themselvves. At least Biden has a reason whereas Trump is just naturally an ass all the time no matter where he is. I know two people at the moment that have gone downhill like Biden and it's amazing how quickly they declined.
joe's response.....


 
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Anyone playing slots is just counting on blind luck to win, much like the lottery. All the games in a casino are weighted to the house, but at least the others offer opportunities for the smart player to counter at least some of that. Plus of course the slots can offer a lower cost entry point than most games that require a dealer.

I agree there are a lot of choices that make people go good or bad, financially. But things like that story show how people who cannot afford more can be forced to spend more. It isn't just the boots, people who cannot afford any insurance can get destroyed by one fall. Now why they can't afford insurance can be a problem (maybe they enjoy the slot machines too much). But there are legitimately hard workers who do not make much money. We just had our gutters replaced on Friday, roofers tend to be the least health insured profession and tend not to have a high salary. And they weren't lazy. So that's a group that might well buy boots that wear out faster, or a car with a spotty reliability record, because that is what they can afford.

Frankly a lot of this should be taught in school. How to think about true cost of ownership. Are the $15 jeans really a bargain, same for the $1500 car. More expensive by itself isn't a good indicator, a lot of pricey Italian cars are only capable of driving to and from the mechanic.

My point, re: the casino, is that a lot of people regularly engage in costly behaviors that impact them far greater than the things they're likely going to point to when somebody asks "What's holding you back?"

Boots, dude. And the fact that none of my lottery tickets have hit paydirt.

Of course, it doesn't just stop at gambling. I could go on and on with self-destructive (or, at least, self-limiting) behaviors. And, FTR, I'm pretty libertarian in my outlook. If somebody wants to engage in vices or irresponsible behaviors, I'm generally predisposed to say they should be able to. They just shouldn't be expecting a bailout from their neighbors -- nor should we be extending them one.

I always loved what Ben Franklin said about poverty, behavior, and government subsistence. He wrote this in 1766! It was directed to England, BTW. But I'd guess the ideas he conveyed would apply to any time, anywhere.

I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.​
In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.​
There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavors to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent.​
The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners.​
 
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Let's focus on Russia here -- because I think it's a more classical geopolitical situation than Israel is.

You wrote:



I would agree with this -- but I think it also exposes the problem. We're willing to take some actions to resist Russia's regional expansionism. But that willingness clearly only extends so far. Sanctions and other economic measures? Sure. Military aid? OK, for a while anyway.

Has it worked? Not from what I've seen. And I don't have any reason to think that it eventually will if we just keep doing what we've been doing.

So the problem is that we're willing to do something, but (apparently) not enough to actually achieve what we say is our objective.

I don't think the appetite has ever been there for direct military engagement with Russia. For one thing, they're a nuclear power and that matters -- a lot. For another, rightly or wrongly, many people just don't see a great deal of national interest here. And people are still war weary from our decades in Iraq and Afghanistan.

To me, we basically have three choices:
  1. We continue what we've been doing and hope that we eventually grind Russia down to the point where they turn tail
  2. We broker an armistice that likely ends up with Russia keeping territorial gains in Donbas (but exiting from the parts of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts they still occupy).
  3. We double-down and escalate our level of engagement
Personally, I'm in favor of #2, as long as it's paired with measures to deter any future Russian aggression. They aren't going to like those, of course. But there's always option #3.

I think #2 is the logical alternative. I was happy for Trump to say that Putin's goal of all the oblasts is not going to happen. The problem with #2, Ukraine and Russia have to agree to it. We can terrify Ukraine into it by threatening to withhold. But what forces Putin to that conclusion? Would Peter the Great compromise like that? I am thinking his dreams of Vladimir the Great depend on getting more than one oblast, especially after the expenditure. But if Putin came with #2, I'd argue for us to jump on board.
 
My point, re: the casino, is that a lot of people regularly engage in costly behaviors that impact them far greater than the things they're likely going to point to when somebody asks "What's holding you back?"

Boots, dude. And the fact that none of my lottery tickets have hit paydirt.

Of course, it doesn't just stop at gambling. I could go on and on with self-destructive (or, at least, self-limiting) behaviors. And, FTR, I'm pretty libertarian in my outlook. If somebody wants to engage in vices or irresponsible behaviors, I'm generally predisposed to say they should be able to. They just shouldn't be expecting a bailout from their neighbors -- nor should we be extending them one.

I always loved what Ben Franklin said about poverty, behavior, and government subsistence. He wrote this in 1766! It was directed to England, BTW. But I'd guess the ideas he conveyed would apply to any time, anywhere.

I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.​
In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.​
There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavors to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent.​
The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners.​
Clyburn’s district is a fascinating study on poverty and gov. As is he with persistent poverty etc or whatever is the term
 
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My point, re: the casino, is that a lot of people regularly engage in costly behaviors that impact them far greater than the things they're likely going to point to when somebody asks "What's holding you back?"

Boots, dude. And the fact that none of my lottery tickets have hit paydirt.

Of course, it doesn't just stop at gambling. I could go on and on with self-destructive (or, at least, self-limiting) behaviors. And, FTR, I'm pretty libertarian in my outlook. If somebody wants to engage in vices or irresponsible behaviors, I'm generally predisposed to say they should be able to. They just shouldn't be expecting a bailout from their neighbors -- nor should we be extending them one.

I always loved what Ben Franklin said about poverty, behavior, and government subsistence. He wrote this in 1766! It was directed to England, BTW. But I'd guess the ideas he conveyed would apply to any time, anywhere.

I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.​
In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.​
There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavors to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent.​
The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners.​

Breaking from my more liberal roots, there is something to that in cases. But there are working poor, like the roofers I mention, who make in Indiana about $18/hour with no health insurance. They can use help. The other group, the people mentally/physically unable to provide for themselves. There are people unable to work because they are incapable of it. Having support doesn't increase that.

But yes, there are people that if you give them a peach by setting it down 5 feet from them who will complain about having to travel those 5 feet. That is a problem with the system. How to get them out.
 
You thinking Ukraine actually has a chance against a country with over 6000 nukes FFS

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Ukraine will not "win", the question is, will Russia "lose".
IMO, our actions are similar to how the Russia / Afghanistan war went. Crazed_Hoosier2 mentioned this as option #1. Russia spent 10 years fighting in Afghanistan and never made much headway. Russia pretty much had the exact same strategy in 1979 that they tried with Ukraine, and it didn't work then either (a blitzkrieg to try and take over quickly). We (and other countries) funded the guerilla warfare there to keep Russia from ever gaining too much territory.

For Ukraine, we just have to ensure a relative stalemate and the hope is that eventually Russia will decide it's more trouble than it's worth.

It was a proxy war then just like it is now. The question is how long it takes Russia to figure that out.
 
I think #2 is the logical alternative. I was happy for Trump to say that Putin's goal of all the oblasts is not going to happen. The problem with #2, Ukraine and Russia have to agree to it. We can terrify Ukraine into it by threatening to withhold. But what forces Putin to that conclusion? Would Peter the Great compromise like that? I am thinking his dreams of Vladimir the Great depend on getting more than one oblast, especially after the expenditure. But if Putin came with #2, I'd argue for us to jump on board.

Well, the consequences of his rejecting such a plan -- and there are going to have to be numerous elements he isn't going to like -- have to significant and credible. I don't think it can be a bluff.

My concern is how willing we and Europe are going to be to make the prospect of that stick a real thing. And how committed we're going to remain to ensure that Russia can go absolutely no further than they have.
 
Well, the consequences of his rejecting such a plan -- and there are going to have to be numerous elements he isn't going to like -- have to significant and credible. I don't think it can be a bluff.

My concern is how willing we and Europe are going to be to make the prospect of that stick a real thing. And how committed we're going to remain to ensure that Russia can go absolutely no further than they have.
My problem with "option 2" is that it is somewhat reminiscent of the Munich Agreement of 1938. Appeasement only works when one side is being honest. Call it a hunch, but I wouldn't trust Putin to keep his promise any more than we should have trusted Hitler to keep his in 1939.
 
Breaking from my more liberal roots, there is something to that in cases. But there are working poor, like the roofers I mention, who make in Indiana about $18/hour with no health insurance. They can use help. The other group, the people mentally/physically unable to provide for themselves. There are people unable to work because they are incapable of it. Having support doesn't increase that.

But yes, there are people that if you give them a peach by setting it down 5 feet from them who will complain about having to travel those 5 feet. That is a problem with the system. How to get them out.

Well, I'm certainly not advocating the elimination of any and all redistributive programs. But I do think we'd be wise to rethink them. Because Franklin absolutely caught onto something in his letter -- and I'd say that it's just a part of human nature...today as it was in 1766 England. In other words, our "system", as you put it, should be designed in a way that properly reflects human nature.

"You took away...the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness."

I mean...that is very well said. And can anybody deny that there's a great deal of truth to it? Now, does that mean it describes anybody and everybody who isn't doing pretty well? No, of course not. There absolutely are people who struggle, simply because they make too low of an income to support a basic subsistence lifestyle -- and who are not victims of their own choices. That's why I said above that we have to examine cases on their own merits, rather than in a one-size-fits-all manner. And we have to make sure that we aren't taking away the same "inducements" that Franklin properly recognized 250 years ago....not, anyway, unless we just want millions and millions of people to be idle sloths who are a burden to society.

And I don't think we want that.
 
My problem with "option 2" is that it is somewhat reminiscent of the Munich Agreement of 1938. Appeasement only works when one side is being honest. Call it a hunch, but I wouldn't trust Putin to keep his promise any more than we should have trusted Hitler to keep his in 1939.

Oh, I'm not talking about relying on Putin's word. I completely agree that he can't be relied upon.

No, no. Such an arrangement would most certainly necessitate measures that ensure he goes no further...not merely words that he agrees to go no further. And he ain't gonna like those....which is why Option 3 has to remain on the table.

But, for God's sake, we need to move off of Option 1. It's going nowhere -- and I don't see any reason to believe that's going to change.
 
Oh, I'm not talking about relying on Putin's word. I completely agree that he can't be relied upon.

No, no. Such an arrangement would most certainly necessitate measures that ensure he goes no further...not merely words that he agrees to go no further. And he ain't gonna like those....which is why Option 3 has to remain on the table.

But, for God's sake, we need to move off of Option 1. It's going nowhere -- and I don't see any reason to believe that's going to change.
It "worked" in 1979-1989 (Russia / Afghan war). You can certainly question the morality of it and whether the expense was worth it or not (and in the grand scheme of things with the benefit of hindsight, you can certainly also make arguments that our actions had eventual consequences when we too attempted our own occupation in that country 20 years later). But if the question is whether option 1 is possible, I'd argue it still has merit.
 
It "worked" in 1979-1989 (Russia / Afghan war). You can certainly question the morality of it and whether the expense was worth it or not (and in the grand scheme of things with the benefit of hindsight, you can certainly also make arguments that our actions had eventual consequences when we too attempted our own occupation in that country 20 years later). But if the question is whether option 1 is possible, I'd argue it still has merit.
The end of the Cold War is what happened in that instance. Had that not happened, I'd guess it would still have just dragged on into oblivion. And it's not a factor here.

From what it looks like to me, Russia and Ukraine are going to just continue fighting -- costing lives, heartache, treasure, and otherwise -- without any significant strategic gains or losses on either side. So what's the point in continuing to pour resources into a stalemate? I guess it helps to bleed Russia dry. So there's that. But I'm quite sure that far more is being spent on the Ukraine side than is being spent on the Russian side.

I don't know. I've always been supportive of our policy towards Ukraine. I very much do think we have compelling interest there. But we're going to have to figure out if we want to escalate things in order to bring about a full and clear Russian defeat or else start figuring out what can be given up in order to find an off-ramp. I really don't think just continuing on indefinitely is a good option.
 
Well, I'm certainly not advocating the elimination of any and all redistributive programs. But I do think we'd be wise to rethink them. Because Franklin absolutely caught onto something in his letter -- and I'd say that it's just a part of human nature...today as it was in 1766 England. In other words, our "system", as you put it, should be designed in a way that properly reflects human nature.

"You took away...the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness."

I mean...that is very well said. And can anybody deny that there's a great deal of truth to it? Now, does that mean it describes anybody and everybody who isn't doing pretty well? No, of course not. There absolutely are people who struggle, simply because they make too low of an income to support a basic subsistence lifestyle -- and who are not victims of their own choices. That's why I said above that we have to examine cases on their own merits, rather than in a one-size-fits-all manner. And we have to make sure that we aren't taking away the same "inducements" that Franklin properly recognized 250 years ago....not, anyway, unless we just want millions and millions of people to be idle sloths who are a burden to society.

And I don't think we want that.


I am quite willing to work with anyone that says, "I'm certainly not advocating the elimination of any and all redistributive programs." There are people on the R side to willing to remove all and people on the D side willing to defend all. The debate on where to draw the line is the debate we should have, we must have.

We need a system to grade programs. Which work, which don't, and which work but could work better. We tend to pass legislation, high-five we did something, and forget about it.

I think a long time ago I concluded that the difference in line drawing between me and many Republicans was one simple question. If a mistake is made, is it better the mistake means someone who should not have access to the program has access or that someone who should have access is denied. Many Republicans here at the time were more afraid of people scamming the system, I was more afraid of a person in need being turned away. But that led me to believe the line was closer than we thought and closer than we were led to believe by our political leaders.
 
You probably flip burgers for a living. You aren’t very smart.
I'm not very smart...coming from someone who blindly believes the media,and supports the democratic party who is trying to destroy the country. They just got caught red-handed,lying to you,and are going to pick a candidate of their choosing,for you to vote for,and circumvented the democratic process of election to do so, and I'm the one that's not very smart?....look in a mirror smarty

Also...FYI...I work in the medical industry.
 
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I'm not very smart...coming from someone who blindly believes the media,and supports the democratic party who is trying to destroy the country. They just got caught red-handed,lying to you,and are going to pick a candidate of their choosing,for you to vote for,and circumvented the democratic process of election to do so, and I'm the one that's not very smart?....look in a mirror smarty

Also...FYI...I work in the medical industry.
Trust me - intelligence is no prerequisite for entry into the Naval officer corps. An ability to follow orders without question and willingness to live in close quarters with other men, however, are required.
 
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I am quite willing to work with anyone that says, "I'm certainly not advocating the elimination of any and all redistributive programs." There are people on the R side to willing to remove all and people on the D side willing to defend all. The debate on where to draw the line is the debate we should have, we must have.

We need a system to grade programs. Which work, which don't, and which work but could work better. We tend to pass legislation, high-five we did something, and forget about it.

I think a long time ago I concluded that the difference in line drawing between me and many Republicans was one simple question. If a mistake is made, is it better the mistake means someone who should not have access to the program has access or that someone who should have access is denied. Many Republicans here at the time were more afraid of people scamming the system, I was more afraid of a person in need being turned away. But that led me to believe the line was closer than we thought and closer than we were led to believe by our political leaders.

I just think something of a paradigm shift needs to happen. By that I mean that we recognize that society (or government) can't treat poverty very well, especially if its treatments ultimately end up unwittingly encouraging the kinds of behaviors that lead to poverty. Rather than just treating the symptoms, I think we need to do the harder work of addressing the causes -- which, IMO, largely have to do with peoples' own choices and behaviors. Gambling, drugs, promiscuity, overspending, etc.

Many people blame poverty on society at large, on insufficient public assistance programs, on rich people, on money being spent elsewhere, on uncaring politicians, etc. I just think we have to reassess that. And it's not about just casting blame -- that isn't going to solve anything. It's about figuring out ways to induce better and more financially responsible behavior.
 
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I'm not very smart...coming from someone who blindly believes the media,and supports the democratic party who is trying to destroy the country. They just got caught red-handed,lying to you,and are going to pick a candidate of their choosing,for you to vote for,and circumvented the democratic process of election to do so, and I'm the one that's not very smart?....look in a mirror smarty

Also...FYI...I work in the medical industry.
Try some punctuation. Too much trouble to read all that rambling mess. I read your last sentence though. How much do you get paid for washing bedpans?
 
Trust me - intelligence is no prerequisite for entry into the Naval officer corps. An ability to follow orders without question and willingness to live in close quarters with other men, however, are required.
You remain very stupid. Why would anyone trust you?
 
Food is the most basic item and it has become cheaper over the long term. 100 years ago Americans spent 25% of their income on food. Now it is under 10%.
It’s a smaller percentage of overall budgets, but still costs more. It could also be 1%. It doesn’t disprove anything.
 
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