Bench Rob

[Indiana_1993]

I've watched the last game three times so I could focus on weaknesses, strengths, and opportunities. Rob is a great defender (probably the best on the team). However, he gets into trouble with the ball, cannot see the open man, has a hard time with the press, and dribbles into traffic needlessly. I found myself holding my breath every time he brought the ball up the court because I felt like it was a 50/50 on whether or not we'd see a turnover or a poor shot.

Lander was better and had better speed and court vision - I like how he has progressed. I think we need to bench Rob and start Tamar Bates. That kid has serious talent and eats the pressure. I'd also like to see more of Geronimo. That kid is going to be really good off the bench behind Trace and Race.

Weaknesses: 3 point shooting and guard play at the 1
Strengths: Defense, post play, and the speed of transition offense
Opportunities: If Miller gets more comfortable and starts to fill in the deep threat, this team will be hard to beat. We replace Rob with a mix of Lander and Tamar unless we have a lock-down situation where Rob is assigned to "Stick with your man. Think of him as chewing gum. By the end of the game, I want you to know what flavor he is!". Love that movie...

 

[SIhoosier26]

Stop it, Rob played great. You just have to keep watching the game over and ignore the horrid offensive stats. Then you'll understand.

All kidding aside, Rob has been one of the more disappointing players since the hot start to his freshman season. I don't know if it was the injury, something off the court, or poor coaching but he's lost every bit of his confidence at this point.

Ultimately it's time to give Lander his chance to be the backup point guard and move Rob to off ball where he can feel more comfortable and lose the responsibility of running the offense, because when he's in the offense comes to a screeching hault.

 

[BusdriverE]

Rob doesn't start so tamar wouldnt start instead of him and he plays more of a 2 and not primary ball handler. I think during the game in the middle parts, let Rob come in but your right, once he's pressured he should be taken out. He has shown SPOTS where he can be good but not consistent enough to rely on. I think once we hit 2nd week in January we will see different lineup. Right now Woodson is going with experience but I'm sure he sees the talent level and will adjust once he feels he can trust the talent for longer stretches

 

[SoccerSammy]

He still has had an uncanny ability to hit the big shot in crunch time even as his play has deteriorated. But I can definitely see Tamar as THE GUY in crunch time so Rob’s liabilities may be more than he can overcome on this team

 

[TR32]

Donald Perry was the back up point guard on the 2002 Final Four run. Some of you guys need to chill. Phinisee has a lot of strengths. If Lander was better he would be playing over him.

For some of you to get your wish with Lander, it would be more reasonable to start Rob and Xavier, sit Parker, and let Lander in earlier. But personally, I wouldn't do that. I'd leave things alone the next 3 games, give Leal and Lander a few more minutes in the Galloway gap and see where things are.

Yes, gradually increasing Bates' minutes as he progresses is likely a plan. Mike is a smart guy.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

I've watched the last game three times so I could focus on weaknesses, strengths, and opportunities. Rob is a great defender (probably the best on the team). However, he gets into trouble with the ball, cannot see the open man, has a hard time with the press, and dribbles into traffic needlessly. I found myself holding my breath every time he brought the ball up the court because I felt like it was a 50/50 on whether or not we'd see a turnover or a poor shot.

Lander was better and had better speed and court vision - I like how he has progressed. I think we need to bench Rob and start Tamar Bates. That kid has serious talent and eats the pressure. I'd also like to see more of Geronimo. That kid is going to be really good off the bench behind Trace and Race.

Weaknesses: 3 point shooting and guard play at the 1
Strengths: Defense, post play, and the speed of transition offense
Opportunities: If Miller gets more comfortable and starts to fill in the deep threat, this team will be hard to beat. We replace Rob with a mix of Lander and Tamar unless we have a lock-down situation where Rob is assigned to "Stick with your man. Think of him as chewing gum. By the end of the game, I want you to know what flavor he is!". Love that movie...

Bench Rob? Why stop there? Just kick him off the Team.

Suppose after Crean and Miller one could understand a tendency to second-guess IU's BB Coach, but Woodson? So many savants around here - so utterly humbling to be in the virtual company of brilliant minds that grasp that a Season is less about how it begins than how it finishes. GLWT.

 

[frikkenfrakken]

Rob has a role...defensive stopper off the bench. We won't have to rely on his shaky ball handling in most games. X will handle it most of the time when not in foul trouble.

 

[jsbanks]

Very early to draw conclusions of course. Likely we can only discuss trends.
I suspect Parker and Miller know they need to add a little more. All of the players are trying to do that.
How many minutes does Trey get? 10-15? They may go to Lander.
To me (I am not a coach), Bates and Geronimo are forcing the coaches to give them more minutes.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

Rob has a role...defensive stopper off the bench. We won't have to rely on his shaky ball handling in most games. X will handle it most of the time when not in foul trouble.

BINGO!!!

 

[Beorik]

Don’t bench Rob.

 

[HillzHoozier]

screeching hault.

This was most noticeable during our third game under a new coach during the second half, where a pressing team, who was held to 33% in the first half, began making shots, which allowed them to set up their defense. Also, there was Rob's calf situation. I agree the shota need to start dropping for him, but same said about Parker Stewart.

Give it time. We play a weak schedule for this very reason. It's too early to make declarations and judgments about anything, with one exception: TJD is an AA.

 

[The Vid]

Depending on matchups, you could play Rob along side X for stretches. I bet we see that with Galloway out. And then Lander would also log some time.

 

[Indiana_1993]

Bench Rob? Why stop there? Just kick him off the Team.

Suppose after Crean and Miller one could understand a tendency to second-guess IU's BB Coach, but Woodson? So many savants around here - so utterly humbling to be in the virtual company of brilliant minds that grasp that a Season is less about how it begins than how it finishes. GLWT.

The comment about it being more about the end than the beginning is spot on. I agree. Let’s hope it works itself out.

 

[UncleMark]

Depending on matchups, you could play Rob along side X for stretches. I bet we see that with Galloway out. And then Lander would also log some time.

Rob = strong defense, weak offense
Lander = strong offense, weak defense

Pick your poison.

 

[Stuffshot]

He still has had an uncanny ability to hit the big shot in crunch time even as his play has deteriorated. But I can definitely see Tamar as THE GUY in crunch time so Rob’s liabilities may be more than he can overcome on this team

I definitely agree with you that Tamar thinks he is THE GUY in crunch time.

Tamar played well when he came into that last game for the first time, but he wasn't so dazzling throughout the second half. But then again, I saw Isiah Thomas play in college, so my standard for dazzling is very high.

Thomas remains the only college guard I ever saw who absolutely dominated an entire game -- he scored at will, stole the ball when he wanted, got so many uncontested layups it became boring, got a few rebounds and, get this, Knight actually posted Thomas against the opponent's center when they were in a 2-3 zone. IU bounce passed to Thomas in the post and the opposing center couldn't handle the sly, slippery, sneaky Isiah Thomas, who usually would score and maybe draw a foul on the center as well. (That 2-3 zone didn't last very long with Thomas doing that.)

I need to see Bates kick ass in a few complete games before I elevate him. I really hope to see it.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Depending on matchups, you could play Rob along side X for stretches. I bet we see that with Galloway out. And then Lander would also log some time.

Rob has a role on this team and will be a guy that steps up at times.

 

[rikki-tikka-tava]

Rob = strong defense, weak offense
Lander = strong offense, weak defense

Pick your poison.

"Lander = strong offense"? Not yet it doesn't. His entire body of work on the Season consists of 13 minutes shooting 3-8 (1-4 from deep), 7 of his 9 points came against a team that IU beat by almost 40, and his other lone basket against St. Johns was lucky to drop.

TJD and maybe Xavier have strong offensive games, Race is efficient (inside at least) as is Jordan, and Tamar shows real promise. Apart from that, IU is pretty much 'scoring by committee' and no one as yet save Trayce has earned a characterization of "strong offense".

I get that everyone is enamored of KL's handles, but the longing to see him succeed and/or for IU to find an alternative to Rob's frustrating offensive woes is coloring a lot of judgment. Hopefully IU gets enough breathing room in the next three games for Kristian to log some minutes, but as of yet he hasn't shown much, if anything, to suggest he should be getting Rob's minutes or that he's a better option.

He's better than he was and have little doubt that he'll get much much better still, just not yet.

 

[ThreeToMakeTwo]

Rob on the bench is a good problem to have.

 

[UncleMark]

"Lander = strong offense"? Not yet it doesn't
[...]
I get that everyone is enamored of KL's handles, but the longing to see him succeed and/or for IU to find an alternative to Rob's frustrating offensive woes is coloring a lot of judgment.

Yeah, I figured someone would take me literally...

That's just the narrative, that Lander can run the point on offense while Rob can't... yet by the same token Rob continues to be damn good as an on ball defender and Lander plays matador defense.

Of course it's more complicated than that and there are other factors involved, but that's the presentation we keep getting here.

Seems to me that if Woodson is going to be a defense first coach, then Rob will impress more than will Lander. I'd love to see Rob used when we have a hotshot point breaking us down on offense, and let Lander come in when our offense gets stagnant and needs a spark.

In the meantime, I'll let Mike figure it out. That's why he's getting paid the big bucks (even if it is less than CTA ).

 

[Spartans9312]

I definitely agree with you that Tamar thinks he is THE GUY in crunch time.

Tamar played well when he came into that last game for the first time, but he wasn't so dazzling throughout the second half. But then again, I saw Isiah Thomas play in college, so my standard for dazzling is very high.

Thomas remains the only college guard I ever saw who absolutely dominated an entire game -- he scored at will, stole the ball when he wanted, got so many uncontested layups it became boring, got a few rebounds and, get this, Knight actually posted Thomas against the opponent's center when they were in a 2-3 zone. IU bounce passed to Thomas in the post and the opposing center couldn't handle the sly, slippery, sneaky Isiah Thomas, who usually would score and maybe draw a foul on the center as well. (That 2-3 zone didn't last very long with Thomas doing that.)

I need to see Bates kick ass in a few complete games before I elevate him. I really hope to see it.

If Zeke is the standard, you’ll never be satisfied.

 

[Indiana_1993]

Bench Rob? Why stop there? Just kick him off the Team.

Suppose after Crean and Miller one could understand a tendency to second-guess IU's BB Coach, but Woodson? So many savants around here - so utterly humbling to be in the virtual company of brilliant minds that grasp that a Season is less about how it begins than how it finishes. GLWT.

The comment about it being more about the end than the beginning is spot on. I agree. Let’s hope it

Rob = strong defense, weak offense
Lander = strong offense, weak defense

Pick your poison.

Wow, great point!

 

[MG80]

The other day post game, Woody said Rob had a calf injury and that’s why he didn’t play late. Granted, that might have been some protection Woody was giving a veteran. It will be interesting to see what kind of minutes he gets tonight. Has anybody heard if he’s Not a go tonight?

 

[Falky22]

Rob = strong defense, weak offense
Lander = strong offense, weak defense

Pick your poison.

I would like to see Lander get some more minutes, but I would not categorize him as a strong offensive player. It has been quite the opposite up to this point in his career.

 

[Stuffshot]

If Zeke is the standard, you’ll never be satisfied.

That's BS. Obviously, I was satisfied once.

 

[GR8IUFAN]

Maybe his injury was a cause for less than great play.

 

[MG80]

Maybe his injury was a cause for less than great play.

Supposedly Rob is out tonight and Logan has been suspended for 3 games for breaking team rules.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Rob was on the floor for 34 of St. John's possessions. St. John's scored 25 pts and had 9 turnovers. That's 0.73 points per possession and a 26.5% turnover rate with Rob on the floor compared to 1.225 points per possession and a 15% turnover rate with Rob on the pine.

 

[luviubball]

I've watched the last game three times so I could focus on weaknesses, strengths, and opportunities. Rob is a great defender (probably the best on the team). However, he gets into trouble with the ball, cannot see the open man, has a hard time with the press, and dribbles into traffic needlessly. I found myself holding my breath every time he brought the ball up the court because I felt like it was a 50/50 on whether or not we'd see a turnover or a poor shot.

Lander was better and had better speed and court vision - I like how he has progressed. I think we need to bench Rob and start Tamar Bates. That kid has serious talent and eats the pressure. I'd also like to see more of Geronimo. That kid is going to be really good off the bench behind Trace and Race.

Weaknesses: 3 point shooting and guard play at the 1
Strengths: Defense, post play, and the speed of transition offense
Opportunities: If Miller gets more comfortable and starts to fill in the deep threat, this team will be hard to beat. We replace Rob with a mix of Lander and Tamar unless we have a lock-down situation where Rob is assigned to "Stick with your man. Think of him as chewing gum. By the end of the game, I want you to know what flavor he is!". Love that movie...

you got your wish.

 

[steelyvan]

What did Logan do?
Over- celebrate the StJ victory?
Not good timing for him. This team doesnt need distractions.

 

[iubud]

Lander had an opportunity to prove himself. Based on the last two games, Lander deserves playing time. He needs experience and needs to take care of the ball better, but he is showing his ability. Bates and Lander will make a good back court duo.

I remember another time we had 3 point guard that could play. Bailey, Meeks and Reynolds

 

[Indiana_1993]

Lander had an opportunity to prove himself. Based on the last two games, Lander deserves playing time. He needs experience and needs to take care of the ball better, but he is showing his ability. Bates and Lander will make a good back court duo.

I remember another time we had 3 point guard that could play. Bailey, Meeks and Reynolds

I was not happy with Lander and didn't see him being able to compete in the BIG10 until yesterday. He is showing signs of growth that are promising. I believe he had a breakthrough game yesterday in both success and confidence.

 

[Cavanagh]

I was not happy with Lander and didn't see him being able to compete in the BIG10 until yesterday. He is showing signs of growth that are promising. I believe he had a breakthrough game yesterday in both success and confidence.

He will be dominating the B1G before it is said and done. Bank on it.

 

[Lucy01]

He will be dominating the B1G before it is said and done. Bank on it.

Childress looked pretty good to me, Galloway with a shot.

 

[Spartans9312]

He will be dominating the B1G before it is said and done. Bank on it.

He’s fine in the open floor. Has to tighten it up in the half court. Teams are going to be physical with him on both ends. How he handles it will be key. Louisiana got to the rim a little too easy at times last night.

 

[Cavanagh]

Childress looked pretty good to me, Galloway with a shot.

Chilly was wet! How did you like that Leal bomb and lay up??? Can’t play at this level I tell ya !

 

[Courtsensetwo]

What did Logan do?
Over- celebrate the StJ victory?
Not good timing for him. This team doesnt need distractions.

He does not interact a lot with other players on the bench. Don't know what he did but am glad to see Woody hold people accountable unlike some other coaches.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

He’s fine in the open floor. Has to tighten it up in the half court. Teams are going to be physical with him on both ends. How he handles it will be key. Louisiana got to the rim a little too easy at times last night.

They did get to the rim but I still saw a fair amount of improvement in his defensive footwork which is step one.

 

[Lucy01]

Chilly was wet! How did you like that Leal bomb and lay up??? Can’t play at this level I tell ya !

Leal looked confused at times.

 

[Spartans9312]

They did get to the rim but I still saw a fair amount of improvement in his defensive footwork which is step one.

I agree and it wasn’t just him. I readily admit I have a tendency to nit pick. Incremental improvement is good to see.

 

[Indiana_1993]

Geronimo is a flat-out killer. That kid doesn't wait for anything! I can't wait to see how he shows up in the BIG10 season.