B1G Coaching Hot Seat

[hookyIU1990]

Hadn't seen this posted anywhere. He makes some good points. I was surprised Gard survived the crap storm a couple of seasons ago. The Howard move seems to make sense too.

Coaching Carousel Conference Preview: Big Ten

For the second year in a row, the Big Ten only saw one coaching change. With four coaches on the hot seat heading into 23-24, there’s a high likelihood that streak comes to an end this spring. When you work in one of the premier leagues in the country, the expectations go beyond regular season […]

burnerball.com

 

[.Gerdis]

Hadn't seen this posted anywhere. He makes some good points. I was surprised Gard survived the crap storm a couple of seasons ago. The Howard move seems to make sense too.

Coaching Carousel Conference Preview: Big Ten

For the second year in a row, the Big Ten only saw one coaching change. With four coaches on the hot seat heading into 23-24, there’s a high likelihood that streak comes to an end this spring. When you work in one of the premier leagues in the country, the expectations go beyond regular season […]

burnerball.com

I don’t care at all for Michigan, but my hatred could be softened slightly by:
1. Losing a couple of players due to stringent academic requirements
2. Having (boosters) lower NIL $$$. What Dickinson was getting at UM was peanuts compared to his new package. It’s EASY to hate a program that has the best players that money can buy, it’s a lot tougher when you see a program (with the types of wealthy boosters that UM has) not playing the NIL game as aggressively.

And……if Howard leaves b/c of these two reasons, as touched upon in the article, it will further soften the sentiment that I have towards a program I have never liked one bit.

 

[IUNorth]

I don’t care at all for Michigan, but my hatred could be softened slightly by:
1. Losing a couple of players due to stringent academic requirements
2. Having (boosters) lower NIL $$$. What Dickinson was getting at UM was peanuts compared to his new package. It’s EASY to hate a program that has the best players that money can buy, it’s a lot tougher when you see a program (with the types of wealthy boosters that UM has) not playing the NIL game as aggressively.

And……if Howard leaves b/c of these two reasons, as touched upon in the article, it will further soften the sentiment that I have towards a program I have never liked one bit.

NIL dynamics are still relatively new. My guess is Michigan is just later to the game, AND are working to figure out how they can filter some of what I assume is enormous amounts of football NIL money, over to other sports.

So basically, I'm not giving them much credit yet for being any sort of virtuous with regards to bball NIL. Because if and when they figure out how to pull bball in to the massive football money, they'll become a major factor, I'm sure.

I'm also wary of the reported academic issues. The market for Caleb Love ended up MUCH smaller than what his bball reputation should have called for. My conspiracy mind strongly questions if the academic thing wasn't an "out" for Michigan to get out, when they figured out what a lot of other major colleges must have when they didn't pursue Love. Obviously both Michigan and Love thought they could make it work at one point...I sincerely doubt it was Michigan admissions that squashed it all.

 

[IUNorth]

Good overall list...

Minny and Nebraska, I would think, need to make jumps very soon for their coaches to survive much longer.

Gard is an interesting one. Is their AD ready to move on from the style that has defined Wisconsin basketball, and won them a lot of games, the last 20+ years?

 

[hookyIU1990]

I sincerely doubt it was Michigan admissions that squashed it all.

The Eastern kid from purdue might fall into that same "buyers remorse" slot.

 

[kkott]

NIL dynamics are still relatively new. My guess is Michigan is just later to the game, AND are working to figure out how they can filter some of what I assume is enormous amounts of football NIL money, over to other sports.

So basically, I'm not giving them much credit yet for being any sort of virtuous with regards to bball NIL. Because if and when they figure out how to pull bball in to the massive football money, they'll become a major factor, I'm sure.

I'm also wary of the reported academic issues. The market for Caleb Love ended up MUCH smaller than what his bball reputation should have called for. My conspiracy mind strongly questions if the academic thing wasn't an "out" for Michigan to get out, when they figured out what a lot of other major colleges must have when they didn't pursue Love. Obviously both Michigan and Love thought they could make it work at one point...I sincerely doubt it was Michigan admissions that squashed it all.

I'd agree, with some of the kids UM has found ways to get qualified, and that they have to be lenient with the football recruits, highly unlikely academics stopped a kid from getting in UM who seemingly did fine at UNC, which also has pretty high academic standards. I remember a local Charlotte kid, Jason Parker, who UNC mostly ignored til he went crazy in the NC state tournament and suddenly they offered and worked to get him admitted and couldn't at UNC. UK had no such problems getting him admitted!

Also, regarding NIL, I've been super curious how that plays into recruiting now. Heard from what I think is a pretty reliable source that he thinks IU's total NIL is approximately 5-6 million annually, and he said that should keep us competitive with top programs and recruits.

 

[Coach Geez]

NIL dynamics are still relatively new. My guess is Michigan is just later to the game, AND are working to figure out how they can filter some of what I assume is enormous amounts of football NIL money, over to other sports.

So basically, I'm not giving them much credit yet for being any sort of virtuous with regards to bball NIL. Because if and when they figure out how to pull bball in to the massive football money, they'll become a major factor, I'm sure.

I'm also wary of the reported academic issues. The market for Caleb Love ended up MUCH smaller than what his bball reputation should have called for. My conspiracy mind strongly questions if the academic thing wasn't an "out" for Michigan to get out, when they figured out what a lot of other major colleges must have when they didn't pursue Love. Obviously both Michigan and Love thought they could make it work at one point...I sincerely doubt it was Michigan admissions that squashed it all.

Regarding Love, I do absolutely believe this to be an admission issue. Second time in two years this has happened. Michigan had Terrance Shannon locked up (who was one of the top coveted transfers in 2022) and didn't have the credits to enroll. It became bigger news when Texas Tech didn't let him stick around to take the necessary summer courses to get in to Michigan and he subsequently ended up at Illinois where he had a very good year.

 

[IUNorth]

Regarding Love, I do absolutely believe this to be an admission issue. Second time in two years this has happened. Michigan had Terrance Shannon locked up (who was one of the top coveted transfers in 2022) and didn't have the credits to enroll. It became bigger news when Texas Tech didn't let him stick around to take the necessary summer courses to get in to Michigan and he subsequently ended up at Illinois where he had a very good year.

Ehhh...I'm skeptical.

I think their NIL inadequacies for bball are MUCH more likely reasons for Shannon and/or Love not making it to Ann Arbor. They'd have figured out the admissions stuff for either/both of them, just like they've figured out admissions standards issues for what hundreds??? of football players throughout the years... if the bball program and the players were all in...

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Ehhh...I'm skeptical.

I think their NIL inadequacies for bball are MUCH more likely reasons for Shannon and/or Love not making it to Ann Arbor. They'd have figured out the admissions stuff for either/both of them, just like they've figured out admissions standards issues for what hundreds??? of football players throughout the years... if the bball program and the players were all in...

I thought both could enroll but all their credits wouldn’t transfer. Like almost half. Michigan will only take 50ish credits. They want Michigan diplomas to actually be mostly Michigan credits. I think both would’ve been knocked back to being sophomores academic wise. I’m pretty sure they only really want sophomore transfers.

 

[IUNorth]

I thought both could enroll but all their credits wouldn’t transfer. Like almost half. Michigan will only take 50ish credits. They want Michigan diplomas to actually be mostly Michigan credits. I think both would’ve been knocked back to being sophomores academic wise. I’m pretty sure they only really want sophomore transfers.

They've had older transfers recently. And obviously I don't KNOW that I'm right. I guess taking them at face value is maybe more likely??

I just have a lot of skepticism they'd BOTH get that far down the path with them, and not have vetted the admissions side.

I think with what we know from what Dickinson has said...that NIL miscommunication, overpromising, bouncing checks, etc... is just as likely the culprit. And the admissions thing was used as the "out".

 

[PhyloeBedoe]

NIL dynamics are still relatively new. My guess is Michigan is just later to the game, AND are working to figure out how they can filter some of what I assume is enormous amounts of football NIL money, over to other sports.

So basically, I'm not giving them much credit yet for being any sort of virtuous with regards to bball NIL. Because if and when they figure out how to pull bball in to the massive football money, they'll become a major factor, I'm sure.

I'm also wary of the reported academic issues. The market for Caleb Love ended up MUCH smaller than what his bball reputation should have called for. My conspiracy mind strongly questions if the academic thing wasn't an "out" for Michigan to get out, when they figured out what a lot of other major colleges must have when they didn't pursue Love. Obviously both Michigan and Love thought they could make it work at one point...I sincerely doubt it was Michigan admissions that squashed it all.

I heard that Love was a lock for IU, but was rejected only because of his poor academics.

 

[hookyIU1990]

I heard that Love was a lock for IU, but was rejected only because of his poor academics.

No kidding? I'm not sure I knew if we were even having ongoing conversations. I'm sort of glad it didn't work out. The guy seemed way too ball dominant/shot happy to me.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

They've had older transfers recently. And obviously I don't KNOW that I'm right. I guess taking them at face value is maybe more likely??

I just have a lot of skepticism they'd BOTH get that far down the path with them, and not have vetted the admissions side.

I think with what we know from what Dickinson has said...that NIL miscommunication, overpromising, bouncing checks, etc... is just as likely the culprit. And the admissions thing was used as the "out".

I’m going off of what Michigan and UNC reports. Some are alums. Could be any number of combinations of all that.

 

[IUNorth]

I’m going off of what Michigan and UNC reports. Some are alums. Could be any number of combinations of all that.

Yeah...just can't fathom two higher level guys getting that far down the process, without having the admitting details very clearly understood. I know there's a formal admissions process that doesn't start until you actually attempt to transfer and enroll...but man...I don't know...seems far fetched that it'd happen once, let alone twice in successive years.

I suppose if there were disagreements over NIL packages, that would have likely come out too. But with all the Dickinson press, I could see UM being VERY motivated to not want any NIL issues to become public.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I'd agree, with some of the kids UM has found ways to get qualified, and that they have to be lenient with the football recruits, highly unlikely academics stopped a kid from getting in UM who seemingly did fine at UNC, which also has pretty high academic standards. I remember a local Charlotte kid, Jason Parker, who UNC mostly ignored til he went crazy in the NC state tournament and suddenly they offered and worked to get him admitted and couldn't at UNC. UK had no such problems getting him admitted!

Also, regarding NIL, I've been super curious how that plays into recruiting now. Heard from what I think is a pretty reliable source that he thinks IU's total NIL is approximately 5-6 million annually, and he said that should keep us competitive with top programs and recruits.

if you win because you outbid everyone else, is winning really the same?

beyond belief what horrible leadership college sports has today.

 

[Coach Geez]

Ehhh...I'm skeptical.

I think their NIL inadequacies for bball are MUCH more likely reasons for Shannon and/or Love not making it to Ann Arbor. They'd have figured out the admissions stuff for either/both of them, just like they've figured out admissions standards issues for what hundreds??? of football players throughout the years... if the bball program and the players were all in...

Dickinson publicly called out Texas Tech and Texas Tech's coach for not allowing Shannon to stay on campus through the summer to earn enough credits to grad transfer, he went so far as to call Mark Adams a "coward" on Twitter. Michigan is very selective on transfer admissions because they aren't going to take an undergrad who is at risk of not having enough credits to graduate before their eligibility is up. Harbaugh has commented on this as well.

 

[Coach Geez]

Yeah...just can't fathom two higher level guys getting that far down the process, without having the admitting details very clearly understood. I know there's a formal admissions process that doesn't start until you actually attempt to transfer and enroll...but man...I don't know...seems far fetched that it'd happen once, let alone twice in successive years.

I suppose if there were disagreements over NIL packages, that would have likely come out too. But with all the Dickinson press, I could see UM being VERY motivated to not want any NIL issues to become public.

I don't think it's that unrealistic. I doubt Howard and Love were talking transcripts and course curriculums during the recruiting process. I'm sure he committed to Michigan and then had to go through the whole paperwork process and when his transcript was sent to the admissions office it was revealed he didn't have enough transferable credits as an undergrad and was denied admission. Doesn't seem far-fetched at all.

 

[IUNorth]

I don't think it's that unrealistic. I doubt Howard and Love were talking transcripts and course curriculums during the recruiting process. I'm sure he committed to Michigan and then had to go through the whole paperwork process and when his transcript was sent to the admissions office it was revealed he didn't have enough transferable credits as an undergrad and was denied admission. Doesn't seem far-fetched at all.

The part that hangs me up is it happening 2 years in a row. That's a lot of time and energy wasted...not to mention potentially missing out on other kids while focusing on Love.

I suppose the NIL angle would be equally as far fetched though...to happen two years in a row.

 

[kkott]

if you win because you outbid everyone else, is winning really the same?

beyond belief what horrible leadership college sports has today.

Oh good... nice to see you've moved on from your outrage over the Auburn game being played in Atlanta!

So, you preferred the system when a handful of programs like UK could outbid everyone?

 

[kkott]

I don't think it's that unrealistic. I doubt Howard and Love were talking transcripts and course curriculums during the recruiting process. I'm sure he committed to Michigan and then had to go through the whole paperwork process and when his transcript was sent to the admissions office it was revealed he didn't have enough transferable credits as an undergrad and was denied admission. Doesn't seem far-fetched at all.

I'd think you'd know better than I, but if what you're saying is true it seems to me that there would be TONS of prospects who would wind up not being admitted to schools and there would be guys decommitting or not being admitted all the time. There has to be a good bit of vetting going on during the recruiting/offer process to have a good idea if a kid is going to be admitted or not.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Oh good... nice to see you've moved on from your outrage over the Auburn game being played in Atlanta!

So, you preferred the system when a handful of programs like UK could outbid everyone?

much preferred it.

rules that get violated by some and can be hard to enforce, are much better than no rules and no enforcement at all.

that said, i've lobbied here for well over a decade that fball and bball players should get more of a stipend than they do, but it needs to be a universal amount for every player at every major school.

anyone who wants to start another pro basketball or football league, has my blessing 100%.

what they don't have my blessing on is hijacking college sports from inside as a shortcut to starting their new pro league because they can't successfully build one on their own, and literally destroying college sports as it was and what made it so popular in the process, when that by definition is not what college sports are about, and when those doing the hijacking from within never did anything what so ever to build what they are hijacking, but just want to enrich themselves off what those who did build it entrusted them with as the caretakers of..

 

[Coach Geez]

I'd think you'd know better than I, but if what you're saying is true it seems to me that there would be TONS of prospects who would wind up not being admitted to schools and there would be guys decommitting or not being admitted all the time. There has to be a good bit of vetting going on during the recruiting/offer process to have a good idea if a kid is going to be admitted or not.

Big difference in admitting a freshman and an undergrad transfer. Most schools admission only require an incoming freshman to meet the NCAA clearinghouse minimum. I believe that to be the case even for a school like Michigan. Notre Dame, Northwestern, Stanford, etc all have a higher admission requirements than the clearinghouse minimum but there are few and far between.

Transfers are different and certain schools (Michigan included) have a different set of requirements. Michigan isn't going to take an undergrad that doesn't have enough transferable credits to graduate before their eligibility is exhausted. Not all schools operate that way though, clearly.

 

[IUNorth]

Big difference in admitting a freshman and an undergrad transfer. Most schools admission only require an incoming freshman to meet the NCAA clearinghouse minimum. I believe that to be the case even for a school like Michigan. Notre Dame, Northwestern, Stanford, etc all have a higher admission requirements than the clearinghouse minimum but there are few and far between.

Transfers are different and certain schools (Michigan included) have a different set of requirements. Michigan isn't going to take an undergrad that doesn't have enough transferable credits to graduate before their eligibility is exhausted. Not all schools operate that way though, clearly.

I'm chalking this one up to...something smells fishy. But you're evidence is the best I've seen, so its just a weird truth I guess.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Yeah...just can't fathom two higher level guys getting that far down the process, without having the admitting details very clearly understood. I know there's a formal admissions process that doesn't start until you actually attempt to transfer and enroll...but man...I don't know...seems far fetched that it'd happen once, let alone twice in successive years.

I suppose if there were disagreements over NIL packages, that would have likely come out too. But with all the Dickinson press, I could see UM being VERY motivated to not want any NIL issues to become public.

It’s actually true. Michigan standards are they want Michigan undergraduates to actually take Michigan classes. They take less than 40% undergrad transfers. They are very choosy. This is on their admissions website. Wasn’t much of a problem or highlighted before the newer transfer rules. Michigan takes academic standards very serious. They rarely get or take transfers that are upper class men. They even say that the courses that don’t match their curriculum description they don’t take. What coach and I are saying is true.

 

[go_iu]

No kidding? I'm not sure I knew if we were even having ongoing conversations. I'm sort of glad it didn't work out. The guy seemed way too ball dominant/shot happy to me.

Yes, but he has game take-over ability when he is on, and we haven't had that from a backcourt player in a while. JHS could have been there had he stayed

 

[CriticArisen]

Hallowed be the day when the bang-hard-down-low and keep-it-ugly coaches leave the conference.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

@IUNorth stanford transfer.

 

[Jssanto]

I don’t care at all for Michigan, but my hatred could be softened slightly by:
1. Losing a couple of players due to stringent academic requirements
2. Having (boosters) lower NIL $$$. What Dickinson was getting at UM was peanuts compared to his new package. It’s EASY to hate a program that has the best players that money can buy, it’s a lot tougher when you see a program (with the types of wealthy boosters that UM has) not playing the NIL game as aggressively.

And……if Howard leaves b/c of these two reasons, as touched upon in the article, it will further soften the sentiment that I have towards a program I have never liked one bit.

I was going to post similar to this so I will just use yours.
I agree it increases my respect for UMich. I also think Howard has no issue with pushing, bending, or breaking the rules.

 

[CriticArisen]

The situation with Zvonimir Ivisic (7’2” Croatian) , incoming freshman at KY, is hilarious. He has never passed TOEFL so question about his fluency in English. Some dope in the UK admissions office was stupid enough to point out he needs a TOEFL score as a requirement for admission. As best I can tell, after the expected shit storm, this turns out to have been a misunderstanding resulting in a miscommunication from the admissions office.

 

[kkott]

The situation with Zvonimir Ivisic (7’2” Croatian) , incoming freshman at KY, is hilarious. He has never passed TOEFL so question about his fluency in English. Some dope in the UK admissions office was stupid enough to point out he needs a TOEFL score as a requirement for admission. As best I can tell, after the expected shit storm, this turns out to have been a misunderstanding resulting in a miscommunication from the admissions office.

Yep. I remember Jason Parker from here in Charlotte. UNC offered and then said he was a non-qualifier, and then UK somehow magically recalculated his HS course work and GPA and viola, he did qualify! Math is different in KY.

 

[steelyvan]

Eric Bledsoe @ UK

 

[IUNorth]

@IUNorth stanford transfer.

View embedded media

Saw that...nuts.

I would say, though...he's there playing for them...so they must have figured it out. Is it because he came from Stanford, and had "enough" credits to fit their standards? Or is it because he's a starting caliber defensive linemen for the football team?

 

[CriticArisen]

Eric Bledsoe @ UK

Eric is having a tough time with the Shanghai Sharks. The Sharks were even thrown out of the CBA playoffs for game fixing.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Saw that...nuts.

I would say, though...he's there playing for them...so they must have figured it out. Is it because he came from Stanford, and had "enough" credits to fit their standards? Or is it because he's a starting caliber defensive linemen for the football team?

He dropped his major completely. Lost a whole year and a half. Like many has mentioned it was his choice to become a sophomore again. He’s doing general studies….from freaking Stanford. From what we know the others who didn’t transfer weren’t whiling to give up their credits.

 

[VanPastorMan]

I was going to post similar to this so I will just use yours.
I agree it increases my respect for UMich. I also think Howard has no issue with pushing, bending, or breaking the rules.

Weren't the Fab Five driving cars around while students? So if they were breaking rules as players then Howard wouldn't worry too much in breaking them as a coach.

 

[IUNorth]

He dropped his major completely. Lost a whole year and a half. Like many has mentioned it was his choice to become a sophomore again. He’s doing general studies….from freaking Stanford. From what we know the others who didn’t transfer weren’t whiling to give up their credits.

So the main reason some of the other widely reported guys didn't end up working out...according to the reports I've read...was Michigan wanted them graduating when their eligibility was exhausted.

Milton is a senior football wise...they accepted him as a sophomore academically, evidently...

I don't really care. I just think they "figure it out" when they want to, and don't when they don't. And per my original point, I think with regards to basketball, I don't think they're yet up to speed on "figuring things out" to get guys the bball program wants...like they appear to be with football. With NIL packages, or navigating their own admission processes.

Are they going to pay Hinton's last 2 years of schooling for him if he's done playing football after this year? If not, or even if they are, why did they make an exception for him?

 

[kkott]

Weren't the Fab Five driving cars around while students? So if they were breaking rules as players then Howard wouldn't worry too much in breaking them as a coach.

Don't know about that. I did a lot of dumb sh*t as a kid I wouldn't dream of doing and like to think I'm older and wiser now. He's got a 3+ million salary on the line now, you can believe if he is going to break the rules, he's going to do all he can to protect and insulate himself from it anyway. Plus, this discussion is about UM having more rigorous standards, not breaking them.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

So the main reason some of the other widely reported guys didn't end up working out...according to the reports I've read...was Michigan wanted them graduating when their eligibility was exhausted.

Milton is a senior football wise...they accepted him as a sophomore academically, evidently...

I don't really care. I just think they "figure it out" when they want to, and don't when they don't. And per my original point, I think with regards to basketball, I don't think they're yet up to speed on "figuring things out" to get guys the bball program wants...like they appear to be with football. With NIL packages, or navigating their own admission processes.

Are they going to pay Hinton's last 2 years of schooling for him if he's done playing football after this year? If not, or even if they are, why did they make an exception for him?

He won’t graduate with his major just his general studies. He did say he will go back and do his major. He wanted to win in football and made his choice. The wide open transfer portal hidden problems. Bottom line is HE made it work for him while giving up a ton academically. Those others could’ve too they just weren’t willing to let it go.

 

[Jssanto]

Weren't the Fab Five driving cars around while students? So if they were breaking rules as players then Howard wouldn't worry too much in breaking them as a coach.

I believe correct on both points.
Sydney Parish (IUWBB, 6’2” G) is driving a new Jeep or SUV - all legal with NiL. I saw the promo commercial for it.

 

[IUNorth]

He won’t graduate with his major just his general studies. He did say he will go back and do his major. He wanted to win in football and made his choice. The wide open transfer portal hidden problems. Bottom line is HE made it work for him while giving up a ton academically. Those others could’ve too they just weren’t willing to let it go.

It would surprise me if Caleb Love cared about graduating from UM..."Caleb, you can come here, but half your UNC credits we can't transfer, so you'll either have to take easy classes and get a general studies degree, or take some classes that will transfer back to UNC, and you'll have to finish there after you're done playing." With the right NIL package, I strongly suspect that Love would have jumped at this opportunity. If graduating was any sort of driving factor here, he would have stayed at UNC and graduated. NIL, and probably NBA prep, drove his decision to leave. He ultimately chose Michigan, after a decent amount of time making the decision. If the NIL and NBA prep stuff were good enough to make him choose them, and they presented him with the same options they did Hinton...you think he turned THAT scenario down?

In the end...I do now think you guys are probably right, and I'm wrong...just playing devils advocate. I have a very cynical view of big time college athletics programs using academics as any sort of reason for not taking high level athletes. And we already have evidence that UM bball is behind other major bball programs with regards to NIL money.