Another Reason for Optimism

[Bowlmania]

This is huge. Check out who's #12.

Obviously returning production isn't a guarantee of anything, but it's usually a pretty reliable predictor of improvement and success. I don't ever remember IU having so much returning production on both sides of the ball.

Looking forward to a great finish to recruiting next week. It's been an outstanding offseason so far. I can't wait for August 31!

https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...9-ncaa-football-returning-starters-experience

 

[HermanB]

Pretty impressive!

 

[vesuvius13]

Thanks for posting this and it shows IU has a good base to build on even though key positions are still very young.

 

[Pigalow]

This is huge. Check out who's #12.

Obviously returning production isn't a guarantee of anything, but it's usually a pretty reliable predictor of improvement and success. I don't ever remember IU having so much returning production on both sides of the ball.

Looking forward to a great finish to recruiting next week. It's been an outstanding offseason so far. I can't wait for August 31!

https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...9-ncaa-football-returning-starters-experience

It's certainly better than not having a lot of experience returning, but I'd be...cautiously optimistic. Returning production doesn't necessarily mean returning productive, & as much as I hate to say, we're probably a good candidate to illustrate that. We need major improvement from a lot of those returnees. Primarily at the point of attack.

 

[ak78]

It's interesting that Ball State is ranked #18 when they have nine guys that are transferring out, including QB Neal and RB Gilbert, two very productive offensive players. We'll see how good the returning defense in in Indy on 8/31. I don't believe they will be able to stop us.

 

[82hoosier]

Penn State is number 100. What does that tell you?

 

[DANC]

It's interesting that Ball State is ranked #18 when they have nine guys that are transferring out, including QB Neal and RB Gilbert, two very productive offensive players. We'll see how good the returning defense in in Indy on 8/31. I don't believe they will be able to stop us.

I doubt the author of the study took them out of the equation.

 

[DANC]

Penn State is number 100. What does that tell you?

Tells me we're gonna KICK THEIR ASS!!!!!!

 

[ak78]

Penn State is number 100. What does that tell you?

It tells me that PSU is again "losing" a ton of talent/production to the NFL, e.g., McSorley and Sanders. They almost always reload, but I like DANC's answer to your question!

 

[DANC]

It tells me that PSU is again "losing" a ton of talent/production to the NFL, e.g., McSorley and Sanders. They almost always reload, but I like DANC's answer to your question!

McSorley has beaten us at for at least the last 3 years. We've played their run game very well and have been in a position to win.

However, just when it seems we can get the game in hand, McSorley always came up with an incredible pass or run. Unless they have a phenom as backup, I'm really glad to see him go.

 

[JohnsyRick]

It tells me that PSU is again "losing" a ton of talent/production to the NFL, e.g., McSorley and Sanders. They almost always reload, but I like DANC's answer to your question!

Also, if you look in the transfer portal PSU had 6 guys in there a week or so ago.
Edit, just checked again, now there are 12 in the portal from PSU, seems unusually high, I’m sure due to great talent ahead of them or coming up.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Penn State is number 100. What does that tell you?

It sure seems like there's some uncertainty next year for OSU. Michigan, PSU & MSU.....

And throw in Wisconsin as well---they lose a lot on their OL and have no decent QB.

Who is going to be better? Nebraska, Purdue, Minnesota will be the most popular answers. Depending on how the new OC fares IU could surprise, but the schedule will be a problem.

 

[iuhoosierstildeath]

McSorley has beaten us at for at least the last 3 years. We've played their run game very well and have been in a position to win.

However, just when it seems we can get the game in hand, McSorley always came up with an incredible pass or run. Unless they have a phenom as backup, I'm really glad to see him go.

He didn’t come close to beating us last year or the year before.. special teams beat us last year along with an injury to our QB and the year before it was 28-0 after the first QT. Wasn’t because of McSorley

 

[DANC]

He didn’t come close to beating us last year or the year before.. special teams beat us last year along with an injury to our QB and the year before it was 28-0 after the first QT. Wasn’t because of McSorley

He came up with the plays to beat us. I think you need to go rewatch those games.

PSU's strength against other teams were the running game. We effectively shut that down. McSorley was the difference.

 

[iuhoosierstildeath]

He came up with the plays to beat us. I think you need to go rewatch those games.

PSU's strength against other teams were the running game. We effectively shut that down. McSorley was the difference.

Sounds like something a person that doesn’t understand the game of football would say. If it’s not the running back it’s got to be the QB..

I think you need to learn the game

 

[Bowlmania]

Who is going to be better? Nebraska, Purdue, Minnesota will be the most popular answers

If we're talking returning production, I don't know why anyone would assume Purdue is going to be better. They've lost a boatload on offense and are near the bottom of this list.

 

[Bowlmania]

It's certainly better than not having a lot of experience returning, but I'd be...cautiously optimistic. Returning production doesn't necessarily mean returning productive, & as much as I hate to say, we're probably a good candidate to illustrate that. We need major improvement from a lot of those returnees. Primarily at the point of attack.

I agree we need improvement, but some of these kids were barely out of high school and we won five games with them.

As I said in the original post, returning production isn't a guarantee of anything. But I'd rather be at the top of that ranking than at the bottom.

 

[vesuvius13]

I agree we need improvement, but some of these kids were barely out of high school and we won five games with them.

As I said in the original post, returning production isn't a guarantee of anything. But I'd rather be at the top of that ranking than at the bottom.

The fact that so many young guys played last year indicates a big improvement in their play as their second year playing almost always sees them playing much better. Improvement in the follow years are more limited so 2019 should be a big year for a number of them.

 

[IUCX9]

If we're talking returning production, I don't know why anyone would assume Purdue is going to be better. They've lost a boatload on offense and are near the bottom of this list.

I agree with you, but that's been the case for two years now. I still want to see it in the field before I say who's going to be better.

 

[Bowlmania]

I agree with you, but that's been the case for two years now. I still want to see it in the field before I say who's going to be better.

No, I think the other poster was talking about teams that would be better than they were in 2018, and that's certainly what I meant. If you're near the bottom in terms of returning production, it's tough to anticipate improvement.

 

[Pigalow]

I agree we need improvement, but some of these kids were barely out of high school and we won five games with them.

As I said in the original post, returning production isn't a guarantee of anything. But I'd rather be at the top of that ranking than at the bottom.[/QUOTE

I agree we need improvement, but some of these kids were barely out of high school and we won five games with them.

As I said in the original post, returning production isn't a guarantee of anything. But I'd rather be at the top of that ranking than at the bottom.

I agree we need improvement, but some of these kids were barely out of high school and we won five games with them.

As I said in the original post, returning production isn't a guarantee of anything. But I'd rather be at the top of that ranking than at the bottom.

Right--agreed. Although, everyone plays with kids barely out of high school, they weren't really the problem for us last year, not so much imo anyway. Pretty much the entire OL was woefully sub par, pretty much from start to finish, & ironically true Frosh Stevie Scott made them look...less crappy than how they played often times. & Defensively, the entire front 7 had a plain old bad year. Not enough talent & a lack of depth was a big part of it, but they should have improved as the year progressed, & they didn't. That bothers me the most. A CTA defense should schematically improve over the course of a season, especially a young & inexperienced group. That's CTA's bread & butter as a coach, & if we can't count on that, we're looking like the B-ball program. 2019 will be pivotal, we really, really, really need to bounce back & be a better team this year. Regardless of the ultimate W/L record, we must show improvement, otherwise we risk falling into an abyss of aimlessly sputtering into the future with no real direction, & of course the evil specter of yet another rebuild will hover over the program.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Right--agreed. Although, everyone plays with kids barely out of high school, they weren't really the problem for us last year, not so much imo anyway. Pretty much the entire OL was woefully sub par, pretty much from start to finish, & ironically true Frosh Stevie Scott made them look...less crappy than how they played often times. & Defensively, the entire front 7 had a plain old bad year. Not enough talent & a lack of depth was a big part of it, but they should have improved as the year progressed, & they didn't. That bothers me the most. A CTA defense should schematically improve over the course of a season, especially a young & inexperienced group. That's CTA's bread & butter as a coach, & if we can't count on that, we're looking like the B-ball program. 2019 will be pivotal, we really, really, really need to bounce back & be a better team this year. Regardless of the ultimate W/L record, we must show improvement, otherwise we risk falling into an abyss of aimlessly sputtering into the future with no real direction, & of course the evil specter of yet another rebuild will hover over the program.

I agree with some of what you said but disagree with much of it. I believe our skill positions will be better with age and incoming depth. The quarterback play should be better with either another year of experience or someone coming in and being better and beating out the returner. Hopefully we find the lightning Walker or James go with thunder in Scott. I disagree with your evaluation of the o line play outside the MSU game we have some real experience we need to find replacements. We need to find a replacement for third down option in Timian and that could be Philyor. We have experience on the outside would love to see a real speed guy there to add to the mix.
Defense should be better on the perimeter with some guys gaining experience and other talented kids getting redshirted. Need to find inside guys at tackles. Linebacker had some young guys get experience and some redshirted also. Finally the secondary needs to be able to finish plays it could not last year.
Finally more experience and more depth should help improve special teams.

 

[vesuvius13]

Right--agreed. Although, everyone plays with kids barely out of high school, they weren't really the problem for us last year, not so much imo anyway. Pretty much the entire OL was woefully sub par, pretty much from start to finish, & ironically true Frosh Stevie Scott made them look...less crappy than how they played often times. & Defensively, the entire front 7 had a plain old bad year. Not enough talent & a lack of depth was a big part of it, but they should have improved as the year progressed, & they didn't. That bothers me the most. A CTA defense should schematically improve over the course of a season, especially a young & inexperienced group. That's CTA's bread & butter as a coach, & if we can't count on that, we're looking like the B-ball program. 2019 will be pivotal, we really, really, really need to bounce back & be a better team this year. Regardless of the ultimate W/L record, we must show improvement, otherwise we risk falling into an abyss of aimlessly sputtering into the future with no real direction, & of course the evil specter of yet another rebuild will hover over the program.

If you would break down films you would see most of the issue on the OL was Ramsey when passing because he bailed out instead of stepping into the pocket. RBs and QBs have a lot to do with how the OL looks and when I was a coach I explained to them how they could hurt blocks made by the OL unless they responded correctly. I broke down IU films and found Ramsey was the biggest issue with pass blocking. Do I want the OL to be better, yes I do but they improved this year. The last staff left players behind that aren't very talented and that is why we need to be patient about the coaches and give them time to fill the roster with their players. When players are as talented as the opponent they don't improve enough to show improvement and our older LBs weren't very good this past year. There is a lot to change on this team but 2020 will be the year to see if it is the coaches or not.

 

[Tegray1]

He also held the ball too long.

If you would break down films you would see most of the issue on the OL was Ramsey when passing because he bailed out instead of stepping into the pocket. RBs and QBs have a lot to do with how the OL looks and when I was a coach I explained to them how they could hurt blocks made by the OL unless they responded correctly. I broke down IU films and found Ramsey was the biggest issue with pass blocking. Do I want the OL to be better, yes I do but they improved this year. The last staff left players behind that aren't very talented and that is why we need to be patient about the coaches and give them time to fill the roster with their players. When players are as talented as the opponent they don't improve enough to show improvement and our older LBs weren't very good this past year. There is a lot to change on this team but 2020 will be the year to see if it is the coaches or not.

 

[Pigalow]

I agree with some of what you said but disagree with much of it. I believe our skill positions will be better with age and incoming depth. The quarterback play should be better with either another year of experience or someone coming in and being better and beating out the returner. Hopefully we find the lightning Walker or James go with thunder in Scott. I disagree with your evaluation of the o line play outside the MSU game we have some real experience we need to find replacements. We need to find a replacement for third down option in Timian and that could be Philyor. We have experience on the outside would love to see a real speed guy there to add to the mix.
Defense should be better on the perimeter with some guys gaining experience and other talented kids getting redshirted. Need to find inside guys at tackles. Linebacker had some young guys get experience and some redshirted also. Finally the secondary needs to be able to finish plays it could not last year.
Finally more experience and more depth should help improve special teams.

That's a lot of needs. You think the OL played well-outside of MSU? I think they were quite inconsistent, & being a veteran group, that was a big problem, imo. Not to mention, as I said, without Stevie Scott they would have looked even worse. He saved the day for the running game, big time. Still though,the staff wanted to control the ball, & games via the run, & that was not possible far too often, imo. Without Scott's production, our running game woud have looked like our B-ball's teams offense. Anemic. & bringing in so many new faces to the O-line, it's hard to see that improving in 2019. I'm hoping Deeboar will find ways to circumvent these issues, & I think he might be able to, I'm glad he's here.. I'm more concerned with the defense, though, personally. As I said, that side of the ball needs to be our bread & butter, imo.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

That's a lot of needs. You think the OL played well-outside of MSU? I think they were quite inconsistent, & being a veteran group, that was a big problem, imo. Not to mention, as I said, without Stevie Scott they would have looked even worse. He saved the day for the running game, big time. Still though,the staff wanted to control the ball, & games via the run, & that was not possible far too often, imo. Without Scott's production, our running game woud have looked like our B-ball's teams offense. Anemic. & bringing in so many new faces to the O-line, it's hard to see that improving in 2019. I'm hoping Deeboar will find ways to circumvent these issues, & I think he might be able to, I'm glad he's here.. I'm more concerned with the defense, though, personally. As I said, that side of the ball needs to be our bread & butter, imo.

So I think running game got to be decent in spite of having an inexperienced freshman at running back. He missed several holes especially in the FIU game he was impatient.
He improved but CTA stated that there were times that he missed some holes. I think the protection was pretty consistent after the MSU game. Is there still room to improve absolutely.

 

[Pigalow]

So I think running game got to be decent in spite of having an inexperienced freshman at running back. He missed several holes especially in the FIU game he was impatient.
He improved but CTA stated that there were times that he missed some holes. I think the protection was pretty consistent after the MSU game. Is there still room to improve absolutely.

Fair enough, I just thought with the veteran talent it should have been a GOOD year for the OL, not mediocre, that's a concern, of course I think Frye's OL's may have raised expectations to a possibly unreasonable point.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Fair enough, I just thought with the veteran talent it should have been a GOOD year for the OL, not mediocre, that's a concern, of course I think Frye's OL's may have raised expectations to a possibly unreasonable point.

I loved Grey Frey he had really good lines but there were some really special backs also. I hope that our o line continues to improve far from dominant but I also hope the running backs continue to get better also.

 

[IUgradman]

IU would have gone bowling the last two seaons with decent QB play. It looks we have two solid QBs on the roster this season.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

IU would have gone bowling the last two seaons with decent QB play. It looks we have two solid QBs on the roster this season.

100% agree and have said if Penix hadn't gotten hurt in PSU game, think he finishes out season as starter. I think his arm is as lively as we've seen, but with an ability to run, stay calm in the pocket, etc. Think the year of seasoning a lot of freshman got this year will show itself this next season. That there may be some FR who are good enough to contribute depth next season as well. And I'm quite bullish about the new OC.

Year 3 after two "could have gone to bowls, 5-7" disappointing seasons, but certainly far from cellar dweller awful. Sometimes things click and I believe this is going to be the start of that with improved offense, the same IU improved defensive level of late, and talent level improving.

 

[vesuvius13]

100% agree and have said if Penix hadn't gotten hurt in PSU game, think he finishes out season as starter. I think his arm is as lively as we've seen, but with an ability to run, stay calm in the pocket, etc. Think the year of seasoning a lot of freshman got this year will show itself this next season. That there may be some FR who are good enough to contribute depth next season as well. And I'm quite bullish about the new OC.

Year 3 after two "could have gone to bowls, 5-7" disappointing seasons, but certainly far from cellar dweller awful. Sometimes things click and I believe this is going to be the start of that with improved offense, the same IU improved defensive level of late, and talent level improving.

Talent is improving and by 2020 we will have a very good team. Like coach Allen I hope the young ones develop quickly and play a major role in 2019 because they are talented. If they do grow up quickly then 2019 can be a better year despite the tough schedule.
I hope the new OC goes with talent vs experience as Penix, if healthy, will be the starter unless Tuttle is eligible and can compete for the job; then let the best QB win including Ramsey.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

IU would have gone bowling the last two seaons with decent QB play. It looks we have two solid QBs on the roster this season.

I think they had decent quarterback play would have gone bowling with better defense which will be better with maturity and experience and better special teams which I hope will be helped with more quality depth.
And of course even better quarterback play with either a third year starter or a sophomore 4 star or an Elite 11 starter.

 

[turney333]

I think they had decent quarterback play would have gone bowling with better defense which will be better with maturity and experience and better special teams which I hope will be helped with more quality depth.
And of course even better quarterback play with either a third year starter or a sophomore 4 star or an Elite 11 starter.

I think you could play that game with every position on the field. I think the best way to describe IU last season was decent everywhere, great nowhere. No major liabilities, but also no game-changers. Throw in one or two game changers at any position, and IU goes bowling.

 

[YOTHN]

IU now has 2 four star QB recruits on their roster to go with a 2 year returning starter. I personally, cannot remember this type of QB depth at IU. The RB depth is in the same boat. It's going to come down to how the OL gels.

 

[Bowlmania]

IU now has 2 four star QB recruits on their roster to go with a 2 year returning starter. I personally, cannot remember this type of QB depth at IU. The RB depth is in the same boat. It's going to come down to how the OL gels.

Penix was, I believe, IU's first 4* QB recruit in program history, so having two QBs of that caliber on the roster is pretty cool. It's possible we'll have to wait another year until we see Tuttle in action, but I think we can become bowl-eligible in 2019 with a healthy Penix and Ramsey.

 

[IUCX9]

Penix was, I believe, IU's first 4* QB recruit in program history, so having two QBs of that caliber on the roster is pretty cool. It's possible we'll have to wait another year until we see Tuttle in action, but I think we can become bowl-eligible in 2019 with a healthy Penix and Ramsey.

Those are two very talented kids. I kind of hope Tuttle isn't available and Penix isn't 100% because we'd have them both for 2020. The cynic in me worries that if either one gets the job this year, the other may decide to transfer. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[DANC]

Those are two very talented kids. I kind of hope Tuttle isn't available and Penix isn't 100% because we'd have them both for 2020. The cynic in me worries that if either one gets the job this year, the other may decide to transfer. Hope I'm wrong.

Penix used his redshirt year this year, right? So if he can't play next year, he loses a whole year.

I definitely want to see Penix healthy and ready to go.

And Tuttle has redshirted already too. I don't want either one to miss a year, but I don't think the NCAA grants Tuttle eligibility this year. I don't know what grounds we could argue that would get past the current rules.

 

[Tegray1]

I think he is going to argue that he withdrew early enough in the semester. Before any grades were posted.

Penix used his redshirt year this year, right? So if he can't play next year, he loses a whole year.

I definitely want to see Penix healthy and ready to go.

And Tuttle has redshirted already too. I don't want either one to miss a year, but I don't think the NCAA grants Tuttle eligibility this year. I don't know what grounds we could argue that would get past the current rules.